DesignLine Commuter Coach Discussion

[Turbo19]

Whatever seats that'll be on the buses will be based on whatever NJT chooses. It's not MCI spec, its NJT spec. So don't be surprised if you see the Designline-ish seats on them things.

Want to bet NJT will switch it around with this incoming order?

 

I can hear the bitching already.

[thephantom]

I think the dislike of the Designlike seats is universal here on this board. The lack of recline and the use of cheap vinyl covers is disliked by nearly everyone.

 

However, lets not assume NJT reads these boards. Call NJ Transit at  (973) 275-5555, and let them know how we feel before MCI starts production of the new buses. I wouldnt put in past NJT to have the better seats removed and replaced if some of the buses are in fact already pre-built.

[DaTransitMan4608]

I think the dislike of the Designlike seats is universal here on this board. The lack of recline and the use of cheap vinyl covers is disliked by nearly everyone.

 

However, lets not assume NJT reads these boards. Call NJ Transit at  (973) 275-5555, and let them know how we feel before MCI starts production of the new buses. I wouldnt put in past NJT to have the better seats removed and replaced if some of the buses are in fact already pre-built.

I don't really mind the blue vinyl fabric (or whatever they're called) too much, I've actually become somewhat accustomed to them with me taking the Middlesex 800's a lot. That ML style leather doesn't phase me, but I don't think I can say the same for the Route 9 patrons.

 

But yeah, I'm all for NJT bringing back the plush seats. I mean they're doing a cracker-jack job keeping the D4000/D4500's, and 2009-early 2011 NABI's free of them.

 

Who's to say about 17 CNG D4500CT's are making their way across I-80 now lol. Nah I'm just kidding.

[ScrappyD60]

Wait so are the designlines going to be sold back like those mta hybrids were when they started to fail?

[busdude2]

Wait so are the designlines going to be sold back like those mta hybrids were when they started to fail?

Most likely they will go back to be part of the bankruptcy to be sold to pay back creditors. Just guessing about the possible numbers for the 160 CNG's. I guess they will stick with the designline starting number 7201 and continue through 7360.

[PinePower]

Most likely they will go back to be part of the bankruptcy to be sold to pay back creditors. Just guessing about the possible numbers for the 160 CNG's. I guess they will stick with the designline starting number 7201 and continue through 7360.

 

Not so fast, NJT still is waiting for these pieces of crap. Howell riders gonna be pissed some more, well, we have plenty of real estate on LI for sale they're more than welcome... 

http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=283723

[Turbo19]

Not so fast, NJT still is waiting for these pieces of crap. Howell riders gonna be pissed some more, well, we have plenty of real estate on LI for sale they're more than welcome... 

http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=283723

Check this thread again. Apparently Designline is out of the running, is what is said is accurate.

 

In the even that it isn't then I don't know what the hell to assume anymore.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Not so fast, NJT still is waiting for these pieces of crap. Howell riders gonna be pissed some more, well, we have plenty of real estate on LI for sale they're more than welcome... 

http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=283723

Whoa whoa now hold on. DesignLine ain't delivering the rest of the buses. Like Turbo said, DesignLine is DFTC (down for the count). They've had to lay off & furlough workers, I doubt their gonna finish the DesignLine order at all. MCI has this in the bag, and they've already won the 84 bus bid.

 

Either way, MCI is gonna dig Howell out of this pile of shit DesignLine put them in.

[Turbo19]

Whoa whoa now hold on. DesignLine ain't delivering the rest of the buses. Like Turbo said, DesignLine is DFTC (down for the count). They've had to lay off & furlough workers, I doubt their gonna finish the DesignLine order at all. MCI has this in the bag, and they've already won the 84 bus bid.

 

Either way, MCI is gonna dig Howell out of this pile of shit DesignLine put them in.

By the way dude, I just wanted to add that I wasn't doubting you in the above post, rather I was referring to NJT and their likelihood to alter the order after the fact.

 

Stating this as you may take offense as another member seemingly did.

[PinePower]

Whoa whoa now hold on. DesignLine ain't delivering the rest of the buses. Like Turbo said, DesignLine is DFTC (down for the count). They've had to lay off & furlough workers, I doubt their gonna finish the DesignLine order at all. MCI has this in the bag, and they've already won the 84 bus bid.

 

Either way, MCI is gonna dig Howell out of this pile of shit DesignLine put them in.

 

I hope you are right, but am still annoyed NJT didn't see this coming, and that Howell had to pay the price.

[Cait Sith]

Whoa whoa now hold on. DesignLine ain't delivering the rest of the buses. Like Turbo said, DesignLine is DFTC (down for the count). They've had to lay off & furlough workers, I doubt their gonna finish the DesignLine order at all. MCI has this in the bag, and they've already won the 84 bus bid.

 

Either way, MCI is gonna dig Howell out of this pile of shit DesignLine put them in.

That depends on the outcome of the contract since that, at the moment, is up in the air. Hence why MCI is only confirmed for the 84 buses.

[engineerboy6561]

Also, just out of curiosity, what would the fate of the existing EcoCoaches be if DesignLine decides to formally close out the contract with NJT? They seem like decent buses; it sounds like a number of the issues that drivers and passengers are having with the bus (the seats being uncomfortable and having minimal recline, the lighting being poorly set up, the doors only opening when the wheels are completely straight, the ZF Ecolifes acting wonky, braking system issues) are things that a medium-scope overhaul would probably be able to do something about.

 

Assuming NJT doesn't keep them, then I'd hope that they get sold at a cut rate to a smaller TA willing to do (or arrange for) a fairly thorough overhaul to address passenger comfort and maintenance issues; I figure that such an overhaul would probably make them into pretty decent medium-duty express coach buses suitable for services like LADOT's Commuter Express. As annoying as these buses are to NJ Transit commuters, I still think it would be a shame for them to go to waste or scrap.

[busdude2]

Also, just out of curiosity, what would the fate of the existing EcoCoaches be if DesignLine decides to formally close out the contract with NJT? They seem like decent buses; it sounds like a number of the issues that drivers and passengers are having with the bus (the seats being uncomfortable and having minimal recline, the lighting being poorly set up, the doors only opening when the wheels are completely straight, the ZF Ecolifes acting wonky, braking system issues) are things that a medium-scope overhaul would probably be able to do something about.

 

Assuming NJT doesn't keep them, then I'd hope that they get sold at a cut rate to a smaller TA willing to do (or arrange for) a fairly thorough overhaul to address passenger comfort and maintenance issues; I figure that such an overhaul would probably make them into pretty decent medium-duty express coach buses suitable for services like LADOT's Commuter Express. As annoying as these buses are to NJ Transit commuters, I still think it would be a shame for them to go to waste or scrap.

What about parts for them from a bankrupt company. My guess they will head to the scrapper.

[engineerboy6561]

What about parts for them from a bankrupt company. My guess they will head to the scrapper.

 

That depends; the powertrain is pretty standard (Cummins ISL-G with ZF Ecolife), so powertrain issues can probably be handled directly through Cummins and ZF. A lot of parts like seats and luggage racks are available aftermarket through vendors like American Seating and Pretoria Transit Interiors, so that shouldn't be a huge issue. I'd probably also assume that things like shocks come in standard sizes and can be replaced without needing to go to the bus manufacturer specifically. I can see certain things like control computers possibly being proprietary and a pain in the ass to repair or replace, and it might turn out that the brake lines might actually be shot to pieces on a couple of them, but I figure that a reasonable amount of inventiveness and a moderate overhaul early on could do these buses a lot of good.

[busdude2]

That depends; the powertrain is pretty standard (Cummins ISL-G with ZF Ecolife), so powertrain issues can probably be handled directly through Cummins and ZF. A lot of parts like seats and luggage racks are available aftermarket through vendors like American Seating and Pretoria Transit Interiors, so that shouldn't be a huge issue. I'd probably also assume that things like shocks come in standard sizes and can be replaced without needing to go to the bus manufacturer specifically. I can see certain things like control computers possibly being proprietary and a pain in the ass to repair or replace, and it might turn out that the brake lines might actually be shot to pieces on a couple of them, but I figure that a reasonable amount of inventiveness and a moderate overhaul early on could do these buses a lot of good.

Some parts yes. But no warranty on the bus if designline is gone. Seems like more trouble then they are worth. We will see fairly soon.

[Worf]

Starting at the beginning of this thread and working to this point, The thread is about Designline Bus and the contact with the NJT.  Well, as it comes to an end (this thread) I'd like to share some information with you about the trickle down effect.

 

Lets see, a company in New York State who has done years and years of work with the Orion Bus (Daimler Buses North America) was approached back in March of this year to help build up enough harness and power panels, power cables ect, as fast as they could to help push out the bus line to NJT.  At the time there was ZERO action or behavior from Designline and the person who contacted this company actually ended up at DesignLine from Orion in upstate NY when they closed down production. (ie inside contact to sub contractor contact).

 

Well, after 2 months of going thru all the prints, finding all the mistakes and getting Designline to correct them, this company actuall started doing up 1st pieces and sending to Designline for approval so the balance could be done and shipped.  Yep 70 pcs, which would fit what Designline owed NJT.

 

Needless to say, when in July the notice was given that the place was on 10 shut down, this comppany in NYS was told that all orders were cancelled.   This order was vital for the company in New York, as it went from about 200 employees with Orion down to about 50 now.  this order would have kept those 50 plus about another 10 or so who would have been called back in a job for a longer time.  Now, this company is once again going to be laying off, this time because of some mis-management at Designline and some money problems that have been going on that were NEVER REALLY solved like Desgnline pretended they were.

 

Based on all the issues with the prints that were received, that had to be redone, it's a wonder any of the Designline's are even on the road. 

 

My hope is that everyone who uses the NJT system gets what they want and what they require.  Be it with MCI or some other company.

[busdude2]

Starting at the beginning of this thread and working to this point, The thread is about Designline Bus and the contact with the NJT.  Well, as it comes to an end (this thread) I'd like to share some information with you about the trickle down effect.

 

Lets see, a company in New York State who has done years and years of work with the Orion Bus (Daimler Buses North America) was approached back in March of this year to help build up enough harness and power panels, power cables ect, as fast as they could to help push out the bus line to NJT.  At the time there was ZERO action or behavior from Designline and the person who contacted this company actually ended up at DesignLine from Orion in upstate NY when they closed down production. (ie inside contact to sub contractor contact).

 

Well, after 2 months of going thru all the prints, finding all the mistakes and getting Designline to correct them, this company actuall started doing up 1st pieces and sending to Designline for approval so the balance could be done and shipped.  Yep 70 pcs, which would fit what Designline owed NJT.

 

Needless to say, when in July the notice was given that the place was on 10 shut down, this comppany in NYS was told that all orders were cancelled.   This order was vital for the company in New York, as it went from about 200 employees with Orion down to about 50 now.  this order would have kept those 50 plus about another 10 or so who would have been called back in a job for a longer time.  Now, this company is once again going to be laying off, this time because of some mis-management at Designline and some money problems that have been going on that were NEVER REALLY solved like Desgnline pretended they were.

 

Based on all the issues with the prints that were received, that had to be redone, it's a wonder any of the Designline's are even on the road. 

 

My hope is that everyone who uses the NJT system gets what they want and what they require.  Be it with MCI or some other company.

Wow that sucks more people out of work. Its always the innocent ones that get the shaft.

[Burrstone]

What's the name of that company?

[Worf]

What's the name of that company?

 

The Company in New York State that got shafted?

[Burrstone]

The Company in New York State that got shafted?

 

The company building the harnesses..

[Burrstone]

Starting at the beginning of this thread and working to this point, The thread is about Designline Bus and the contact with the NJT.  Well, as it comes to an end (this thread) I'd like to share some information with you about the trickle down effect.

 

Lets see, a company in New York State who has done years and years of work with the Orion Bus (Daimler Buses North America) was approached back in March of this year to help build up enough harness and power panels, power cables ect, as fast as they could to help push out the bus line to NJT.  At the time there was ZERO action or behavior from Designline and the person who contacted this company actually ended up at DesignLine from Orion in upstate NY when they closed down production. (ie inside contact to sub contractor contact).

 

Well, after 2 months of going thru all the prints, finding all the mistakes and getting Designline to correct them, this company actuall started doing up 1st pieces and sending to Designline for approval so the balance could be done and shipped.  Yep 70 pcs, which would fit what Designline owed NJT.

 

Needless to say, when in July the notice was given that the place was on 10 shut down, this comppany in NYS was told that all orders were cancelled.   This order was vital for the company in New York, as it went from about 200 employees with Orion down to about 50 now.  this order would have kept those 50 plus about another 10 or so who would have been called back in a job for a longer time.  Now, this company is once again going to be laying off, this time because of some mis-management at Designline and some money problems that have been going on that were NEVER REALLY solved like Desgnline pretended they were.

 

Based on all the issues with the prints that were received, that had to be redone, it's a wonder any of the Designline's are even on the road. 

 

My hope is that everyone who uses the NJT system gets what they want and what they require.  Be it with MCI or some other company.

 

It sounds like you are upset that this company in Upstate, NY got "shafted" because of Designline's problems but what does it say about the health of this company that it's going to go under over this deal?  

[Worf]

I doubt they wil go under according to some good source information.  I just feel that DesignLine was not totally open and honest about the entire situation given the issues they had at the time.  My source at the Assembly Group told me that her comapny has been around for a long time and will be around for a while, just not as fluid as it once was.

 

Part of the overall problems are, and although I personally have nothing against them, the unions.  Daimler Buses North America closed down because they could no longer show any type of profit because the unions always wanted more.  Orion was met with many a strikes and shut downs over the years all because of unions.

 

I guess the bottom line is that the little companies are the ones who feel the pinch, and I do find it kind of strange that as soon as FOXX left Designline these issues started coming forth.  Can't help but to wonder if FOXX was behind the entire back out of the investors at DesignLine.

[busdude2]

I doubt they wil go under according to some good source information.  I just feel that DesignLine was not totally open and honest about the entire situation given the issues they had at the time.  My source at the Assembly Group told me that her comapny has been around for a long time and will be around for a while, just not as fluid as it once was.

 

Part of the overall problems are, and although I personally have nothing against them, the unions.  Daimler Buses North America closed down because they could no longer show any type of profit because the unions always wanted more.  Orion was met with many a strikes and shut downs over the years all because of unions.

 

I guess the bottom line is that the little companies are the ones who feel the pinch, and I do find it kind of strange that as soon as FOXX left Designline these issues started coming forth.  Can't help but to wonder if FOXX was behind the entire back out of the investors at DesignLine.

Does anyone know if the Designlines are still running in service or have they all been parked ?

[Cait Sith]

Does anyone know if the Designlines are still running in service or have they all been parked ?

 

As of late, only 4-5 have been sent out in service.

[Burrstone]

As of late, only 4-5 have been sent out in service.

 

Why is that?