Express bus driver ignoring passengers

[busrider5000]

Another totally unpublished and unwritten rule is the QM1/5/6/7/8 transfer point at 188th/Chevy Chase and Union.  Going into the city, you can get off any QM1/5/6/7/8 bus at 188th and Union and transfer to a different bus (useful for those that are coming from the QM6 line which has no downtown option).  On the way back from the city, you can get off at Chevy Chase/Union and pick up another express bus of your choice (if you took a QM7 home, let's say, but live on the QM5/8, you can switch).

 

It's a great option, but this isn't published anywhere on the schedule!  How would someone know?  

 

And I know other express bus schedules list transfers (midtown to downtown routes).  

 

And it's funny about the unmarked "alternate" express bus stops--once I saw a substitute bus driver almost pass a woman at one of these "express bus secret code" stops a few feet from the pole--how would the driver know?  

 

At some point, they need to come out with a system where the bus stop poles have buttons like a pedestrian button to cross a street.  This way, approaching drivers can be alerted as to which bus the passenger(s) at the stop are waiting for. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Another totally unpublished and unwritten rule is the QM1/5/6/7/8 transfer point at 188th/Chevy Chase and Union.  Going into the city, you can get off any QM1/5/6/7/8 bus at 188th and Union and transfer to a different bus (useful for those that are coming from the QM6 line which has no downtown option).  On the way back from the city, you can get off at Chevy Chase/Union and pick up another express bus of your choice (if you took a QM7 home, let's say, but live on the QM5/8, you can switch).

 

It's a great option, but this isn't published anywhere on the schedule!  How would someone know?  

 

And I know other express bus schedules list transfers (midtown to downtown routes).  

 

And it's funny about the unmarked "alternate" express bus stops--once I saw a substitute bus driver almost pass a woman at one of these "express bus secret code" stops a few feet from the pole--how would the driver know?  

 

At some point, they need to come out with a system where the bus stop poles have buttons like a pedestrian button to cross a street.  This way, approaching drivers can be alerted as to which bus the passenger(s) at the stop are waiting for. 

LOL.... That's because those express bus transfers are "unofficial"... In other words they're not published because technically they're not true transfer points but the passengers establish them based on demand.  There are several unofficial ones on Staten Island, many of which I've used here and there but there are none in Riverdale since we pretty much have East Midtown, West Midtown and Downtown covered.  I also think some of these aren't officially published to avoid having folks get on the express bus for non-commuter trips (in other words trips not from Queens to Manhattan and vice versa).  You open up a can of worms with that, so it's sort of like kept amongst express bus riders if you will.  The can of worms would be slower service because you'd have all of these people getting on and off instead of just mainly pick up stops and drop off stops which makes for a much slower commute.

 

As for the unmarked express bus stops, well technically those B/O's are trained and told where to stop for each stop, where passengers will stand and so on, but yeah there are times when they do forget and believe you me those passengers get so pissed that they get an ear full and will remember for the next time.  It's usually not that hard to figure out for the B/O's because most of us are regulars, but the problem is if you're not  a regular, and you're not standing in the right spot and they're not used to seeing you or if they're just simply too busy watching skirts and not paying attention then they may just blow by all together.  This is less of an issue on the Riverdale buses because people will complain so the only way that you'll be bypassed is if there is a mixup on the run sheet because bypassing passengers is not taken lightly, not only because it's poor service but also the stipulates that they don't discriminate against passengers based on color or any of that stuff and I do know back in the old days that you had some racist B/O's that would bypass stops on purpose because they didn't want to pick up certain people.

[Gorgor]

The ideal solution which I've been thinking about, similar to what VG8 said, would be one button for each bus on the bus stop pole.  When pressed, it would illuminate the bus route and destination boxes on the bus stop sign.  The only problem is that after the bus stops the light would just stay on unless people press it to unselect it when the bus arrives (which people won't do, especially if the bus doesn't stop right at the pole).  Also those signs have a tendency to fall off or dissapear frequently.

 

This would also cost a lot of money to implement, and I definitely do not think that it's worth spending all the money just for this.  Just throwing this idea out there.  A more realistic solution would to be just have a separate bus stop pole or some clearly defined marking (even just paint on the sidewalk) maybe 10-20 feet away from the main bus stop pole that is for the express bus only.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The ideal solution which I've been thinking about, similar to what VG8 bus rider5000 said, would be one button for each bus on the bus stop pole.  When pressed, it would illuminate the bus route and destination boxes on the bus stop sign.  The only problem is that after the bus stops the light would just stay on unless people press it to unselect it when the bus arrives (which people won't do, especially if the bus doesn't stop right at the pole).  Also those signs have a tendency to fall off or dissapear frequently.

 

This would also cost a lot of money to implement, and I definitely do not think that it's worth spending all the money just for this.  Just throwing this idea out there.  A more realistic solution would to be just have a separate bus stop pole or some clearly defined marking (even just paint on the sidewalk) maybe 10-20 feet away from the main bus stop pole that is for the express bus only.

Yeah I agree and I don't think it's necessary either... B/O's should not be sent out on routes before being properly trained and they should know the routes.  Sometimes B/O's don't have enough time and are just trained quickly and thrown on a route and literally thrown to the wolves and left to fend for themselves.  It can create a very irritating situation for the passengers and the B/O's. I've been on quite a few Staten Island express buses where the drivers didn't know the routes.  Once I was on an X16 and instead of turning on Victory & Clove, he went straight as if he was an X13.  LOL!

 

Thinking back on it, it was friggin' hilarious. Suddenly everyone started yelling NO!!!! NOT THAT WAY!!!  I was wondering how in the hell he was going to get back onto Victory.  He had to take these little tiny side streets to make his way over to Victory and he almost got stuck on one of the side streets.   I'm laughing now but I wasn't laughing then I can assure you of that.

 

I think the real issue is that on some streets you have so many buses stopping at one stop that there simply just isn't enough room to create separate areas.  I mean in my case, the way Henry Hudson Parkway is set up, if you moved the stops and spread them out more, you'd have more congestion because the streets are narrow, plus you have all of the co-ops and condos along the Parkway that have entrances where cars and delivery trucks can pull in and stop so you can't use that area for bus stops obviously.  

 

On Staten Island many of the streets are also too narrow and aren't conducive to having the stops spread out. In our case here in Riverdale, we have the three express buses, two or three local buses depending on where you are along the Parkway and then the Hudson Rail Link shuttle buses. Luckily there isn't tons of traffic along the Parkway, but when there are three express buses together sometimes it can be a bit messy because there usually isn't enough room for two buses to run side by side, which means one bus usually can't bypass another bus unless that bus is parked perfectly, even if it's say a local bus and an express bus which often times happens. We just have to trail the local bus until there is enough space for us to pass.  In Manhattan there just simply isn't enough room... If you look at 5th Avenue just about each block has space that's accounted for in terms of bus stops and moving buses off of 5th wouldn't solve anything either.

 

To be honest, I think once Bus Time and Bus Trek comes to the city citywide, B/O's will be much more cognisant of making sure to make all of the stops because they'll be watched more so that as I've said before it isn't the passengers' word against the B/O's word.  Sometimes it's really a mistake and sometimes it isn't, or they're just in such a blasé mode that it's like oh whatever. So I missed that stop, oh well.  

 

I've had that with some B/O's on Staten Island in terms of B/O's missing stops or almost missing stops because they were busy with other affairs.  The guy was so busy watching skirt that he almost bypassed us, then stopped in the middle of 5th Avenue to let us on and we're looking at him like are you serious and eventually we said something, because it was not safe for him stopping like that, so he responded with a oh what's the problem, as if it's normal to pick up passengers in the middle of the street.  Had he been paying attention he would've had more time to pull into the curb, but since he was almost past the light at the corner it would've been too much of a hassle to try to get the bus closer to the curb.

 

Finally, it's also the passenger's fault in some cases too... I see so many people in Riverdale waiting for the express bus and it's kind of like no one wants to be the first one to move towards the bus and I'm like would you friggin' people get on the damn bus?!!? They're just standing there and then at the very last minute they start to walk towards the bus as if they're not sure if they want to get on that bus or not.  If you want the bus, step lively and move in the direction of the bus so that the B/O knows that you want it!

[checkmatechamp13]

Another totally unpublished and unwritten rule is the QM1/5/6/7/8 transfer point at 188th/Chevy Chase and Union.  Going into the city, you can get off any QM1/5/6/7/8 bus at 188th and Union and transfer to a different bus (useful for those that are coming from the QM6 line which has no downtown option).  On the way back from the city, you can get off at Chevy Chase/Union and pick up another express bus of your choice (if you took a QM7 home, let's say, but live on the QM5/8, you can switch).

 

It's a great option, but this isn't published anywhere on the schedule!  How would someone know?  

 

And I know other express bus schedules list transfers (midtown to downtown routes).  

 

That's a good point. Since they're listing out the stops anyway, they could put a little note at the 188th Street stop (the way some other routes advertise the transfer to the BxM18), saying you can transfer there.

 

Out here (SI, and a couple of spots in Manhattan), some stops say "NYCT: Express bus transfer point". Do they have anything like that in Queens?

 

The ideal solution which I've been thinking about, similar to what VG8 said, would be one button for each bus on the bus stop pole. 

 

That was busrider5000.

 

That, and the problem is that sometimes, the other bus blocks the physical stop, so the B/O wouldn't be able to see it anyway.

[B35 via Church]

..Out here (SI, and a couple of spots in Manhattan), some stops say "NYCT: Express bus transfer point". Do they have anything like that in Queens?

Not that I know of... Those 2 aforementioned boroughs are the only ones you tend to see them at....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Well if you live on the QM2, QM3, QM4, QM5, QM6, QM12, QM15, QM16, QM17, QM18, QM20, and QM21 routes, and want an option downtown, you have to transfer at 5 Avenue 56 for service downtown on the BxM18

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well if you live on the QM2, QM3, QM4, QM5, QM6, QM12, QM15, QM16, QM17, QM18, QM20, and QM21 routes, and want an option downtown, you have to transfer at 5 Avenue 56 for service downtown on the BxM18

Yeah I don't see that many people transferring from the BxM18 unless they're the earlier runs in the evening.

[QM1to6Ave]

Another totally unpublished and unwritten rule is the QM1/5/6/7/8 transfer point at 188th/Chevy Chase and Union.  Going into the city, you can get off any QM1/5/6/7/8 bus at 188th and Union and transfer to a different bus (useful for those that are coming from the QM6 line which has no downtown option).  On the way back from the city, you can get off at Chevy Chase/Union and pick up another express bus of your choice (if you took a QM7 home, let's say, but live on the QM5/8, you can switch).

 

It's a great option, but this isn't published anywhere on the schedule!  How would someone know?  

 

And I know other express bus schedules list transfers (midtown to downtown routes).  

 

And it's funny about the unmarked "alternate" express bus stops--once I saw a substitute bus driver almost pass a woman at one of these "express bus secret code" stops a few feet from the pole--how would the driver know?  

 

At some point, they need to come out with a system where the bus stop poles have buttons like a pedestrian button to cross a street.  This way, approaching drivers can be alerted as to which bus the passenger(s) at the stop are waiting for. 

 

I've definitely seen this transfer in writing in old schedules, or perhaps on the MTA website. Maybe they just cut it out of the new ones. 

[qjtransitmaster]

Well if you live on the QM2, QM3, QM4, QM5, QM6, QM12, QM15, QM16, QM17, QM18, QM20, and QM21 routes, and want an option downtown, you have to transfer at 5 Avenue 56 for service downtown on the BxM18

err why would anyone going downtown transfer to a bus? that is what the subway is for. Those by QM12&10 have QM11. Those by QM5/6/1 have QM7/8. QM21 your better off with LIRR anyway. QM4 area has QM11. All queens needs is a transfer stop at woodhaven for QM11 for the remaining X63/64/68 and QM15/16/17/4 folks who need downtown service from outer queens. However QM2/20 should get their own downtown branch till then transfer to the is what most would do. QM18 and 3 are useless most people use other options anyway.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

err why would anyone going downtown transfer to a bus? that is what the subway is for. Those by QM12&10 have QM11. Those by QM5/6/1 have QM7/8. QM21 your better off with LIRR anyway. QM4 area has QM11. All queens needs is a transfer stop at woodhaven for QM11 for the remaining X63/64/68 and QM15/16/17/4 folks who need downtown service from outer queens. However QM2/20 should get their own downtown branch till then transfer to the is what most would do. QM18 and 3 are useless most people use other options anyway.

Excuse me but the LIRR is already crowded enough and the routes that you talk about are not useless... Routes like the QM3 is used well when it does run because it's a rush-hour only route.  Furthermore, the Lex line is also overcrowded, so having the option to transfer to the express bus makes sense, esp. when the bus can take about the same amount of time as the subway.  From 42nd-Grand Central on the to Downtown it's about 15 - 25 minutes depending on how fast the train is or if it crawls and it's about the same amount of time on the BxM18.  Also the do not serve all of the places that the BxM18 does.

[qjtransitmaster]

Excuse me but the LIRR is already crowded enough and the routes that you talk about are not useless... Routes like the QM3 is used well when it does run because it's a rush-hour only route.  Furthermore, the Lex line is also overcrowded, so having the option to transfer to the express bus makes sense, esp. when the bus can take about the same amount of time as the subway.  From 42nd-Grand Central on the to Downtown it's about 15 - 25 minutes depending on how fast the train is or if it crawls and it's about the same amount of time on the BxM18.  Also the do not serve all of the places that the BxM18 does.

I am suggesting that downtown queens riders use their own downtown lines like QM25/7/8/11 instead of Bxm18. That is what other bxm lines are for you do realize the walk is short right. Anyway it's better for QM riders to just transfer to their own qm downtown lines which are much faster than bxm18. 

[B35 via Church]

QM21 your better off with LIRR anyway....

I'm so sick of this attitude.... I mean really, you try telling QM21 riders they're better off taking the LIRR...

 

I'm tellin you right now.... in the NY metropolitan area, it's far more of a hassle commuting via [commuter rail - subway (or some bus)], compared to commuting via [express bus after having came off some other bus]..... Amazing how people fail to consider this...

(Consider the demise of the x25 as a pretty good example/illustration of this point....)

 

Case in point, ask any positive integer of LI commuters that don't have a choice but to take the subway (or some bus) coming from Penn to get to lower manhattan - Or Westchester commuters that have to xfer to the Lex lines after disembarking at GCT also to get to lower manhattan..... God help you if you're a LI commuter that needs the east side or a Westchester commuter that needs the west side !

 

 

Excuse me but the LIRR is already crowded enough and the routes that you talk about are not useless... Routes like the QM3 is used well when it does run because it's a rush-hour only route.  Furthermore, the Lex line is also overcrowded, so having the option to transfer to the express bus makes sense, esp. when the bus can take about the same amount of time as the subway.  From 42nd-Grand Central on the to Downtown it's about 15 - 25 minutes depending on how fast the train is or if it crawls and it's about the same amount of time on the BxM18.  Also the do not serve all of the places that the BxM18 does.

+1...

 

I mean really, how many more times are we gonna have this discussion of tryna cram express bus riders onto the rails....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I am suggesting that downtown queens riders use their own downtown lines like QM25/7/8/11 instead of Bxm18. That is what other bxm lines are for you do realize the walk is short right. Anyway it's better for QM riders to just transfer to their own qm downtown lines which are much faster than bxm18. 

Some QM express bus riders don't have a Downtown and Midtown express bus and Bronx express riders only have Midtown service, which means that they don't get to go Downtown too often unless they're up for the schlepp.  Only Riverdale has direct Downtown express bus service, but that runs only during rush hours.  I think it's wise of the to conserve services where possible and not extend tons of QM's and BxM's Downtown just because BUT they should be studying some areas in terms of demographics because there are some areas that could perhaps get at least rush hour Downtown service and have that run until 19:00 or 19:30 where possible.

 

I was talking with a lady last night at a BxM2 stop who is a fellow Riverdalian.  She was actually trying to hail a yellow taxi to Riverdale which I couldn't believe when she was standing right in front of the BxM2 bus stop and thus thought she wanted the M7 bus, but she no I am [indeed] going to take the Riverdale bus since she couldn't get a taxi. Anywho, apparently she is one that doesn't hesitate in doing so and usually calls a local car service in our neighborhood because she said likes to get home quickly.  I told her many Riverdale residents just jump in a yellow taxi, as I see them either on or around my block a lot when I'm coming home late at night which she was surprised by because apparently she just calls the local car service to get her from Midtown and return back to Riverdale.

 

The ride is only 25 minutes in a yellow city taxi roughly compared to about 45 minutes at that time of night on the BxM2 depending on where in Riverdale you are but the difference in cost is significant.  Taxi ride is about $35 - 40 w/tolls compared to the express bus or MetroNorth at $6.00 and $10.75 respectively ($8.25 + $2.50 for the Hudson Rail Link Bus during peak hours and $8.75 during off-peak ($6.25 + $2.50 for the Hudson Rail Link Bus)). I told her she should walk over to the BxM18 when it's running and it would take her about 30 - 35 minutes tops from Midtown and she said she forgot about that bus and how fast it was, but commented on how lucky we were to have so many options to which I agreed.  

 

I saw an X1 last night while waiting for the BxM2 and it had a pretty decent load.  It's really great what the did with the X1 because it makes Staten Island so much more accessible for the residents and for people who want to come to or from the Island late at night because it gives them a normal commute compared to an over two hour commute as I have had coming back to Staten Island late at night.  This is the impact and flexibility that express bus service can have over rail service.  They can add or take away service as needed to control costs.

[qjtransitmaster]

Some QM express bus riders don't have a Downtown and Midtown express bus and Bronx express riders only have Midtown service, which means that they don't get to go Downtown too often unless they're up for the schlepp.  Only Riverdale has direct Downtown express bus service, but that runs only during rush hours.  I think it's wise of the to conserve services where possible and not extend tons of QM's and BxM's Downtown just because BUT they should be studying some areas in terms of demographics because there are some areas that could perhaps get at least rush hour Downtown service and have that run until 19:00 or 19:30 where possible.

 

I was talking with a lady last night at a BxM2 stop who is a fellow Riverdalian.  She was actually trying to hail a yellow taxi to Riverdale which I couldn't believe when she was standing right in front of the BxM2 bus stop and thus thought she wanted the M7 bus, but she no I am [indeed] going to take the Riverdale bus since she couldn't get a taxi. Anywho, apparently she is one that doesn't hesitate in doing so and usually calls a local car service in our neighborhood because she said likes to get home quickly.  I told her many Riverdale residents just jump in a yellow taxi, as I see them either on or around my block a lot when I'm coming home late at night which she was surprised by because apparently she just calls the local car service to get her from Midtown and return back to Riverdale.

 

The ride is only 25 minutes in a yellow city taxi roughly compared to about 45 minutes at that time of night on the BxM2 depending on where in Riverdale you are but the difference in cost is significant.  Taxi ride is about $35 - 40 w/tolls compared to the express bus or MetroNorth at $6.00 and $10.75 respectively ($8.25 + $2.50 for the Hudson Rail Link Bus during peak hours and $8.75 during off-peak ($6.25 + $2.50 for the Hudson Rail Link Bus)). I told her she should walk over to the BxM18 when it's running and it would take her about 30 - 35 minutes tops from Midtown and she said she forgot about that bus and how fast it was, but commented on how lucky we were to have so many options to which I agreed.  

 

I saw an X1 last night while waiting for the BxM2 and it had a pretty decent load.  It's really great what the did with the X1 because it makes Staten Island so much more accessible for the residents and for people who want to come to or from the Island late at night because it gives them a normal commute compared to an over two hour commute as I have had coming back to Staten Island late at night.  This is the impact and flexibility that express bus service can have over rail service.  They can add or take away service as needed to control costs.

Clearly you were NOT listening. I said why not add a transfer stop to QM downtown buses on 34th street as they have to go on 34th before FDR anyway!!! So with QM buses that do not have downtown they could transfer to faster QM lines on the first drop-off. Most do have downtown branches All that is needed to take BXM18 out of the equation of queens riders is Transfer stop on queens blvd at forest hills for QM7/8 for those from QM21/18/x64/63/68. Union tpk and fresh meadows people already have QM8/7 direct to downtown. Add transfer stop to QM11 for those from QM4 and QM15/16/17 rego park will just use QM11 directly. Glendale has QM25 now the only buses left without downtown service is QM2/20 which simply need their own downtown variants that will cut down on transfer times considerably and Speed up downtown travel for Queens riders. However some QM lines few in number are redundant and not fast at all so it's a waste of time to even bother. QM18 saves almost zero time over the subway and with that Q10 LTD there there is a reason why it's 2nd to dead last in ridership with only QM3 having less riders BUT QM3 has only 3 trips so 129 over 3 trips is kinda high. But If it was so vital why was X51 eliminated? With more access with open-door stop added queens patrons will mostly no longer have a use for the BXM18. BXM18 is just that Bronx to downtown.

[qjtransitmaster]

I'm so sick of this attitude.... I mean really, you try telling QM21 riders they're better off taking the LIRR...

 

I'm tellin you right now.... in the NY metropolitan area, it's far more of a hassle commuting via [commuter rail - subway (or some bus)], compared to commuting via [express bus after having came off some other bus]..... Amazing how people fail to consider this...

(Consider the demise of the x25 as a pretty good example/illustration of this point....)

 

Case in point, ask any positive integer of LI commuters that don't have a choice but to take the subway (or some bus) coming from Penn to get to lower manhattan - Or Westchester commuters that have to xfer to the Lex lines after disembarking at GCT also to get to lower manhattan..... God help you if you're a LI commuter that needs the east side or a Westchester commuter that needs the west side !

 

 

 

+1...

 

I mean really, how many more times are we gonna have this discussion of tryna cram express bus riders onto the rails....

I was only talking about weak lines most express buses are useful but a few of them yeah you can cram them onto rails 129 extra riders is not much nor will LIRR get worse with 377 extra riders. Those who take QM21 are old and not fit enough to access the LIRR. If a ramp from their community to the LIRR station directly was built QM21 ridership would plummet fast. X63 serves areas not so close to LIRR.  Plus the way highways are in LI it's impossible for any extensive express bus service to manhattan from Nassau to be practical it would be too slow and indirect  vs 40 min super express peak trains a potential express bus has zero chance. I took a LIRR train from penn it was an express it got me to seaford in 40 mins!!!! How is that a hassle. Plus westchester you do realize that I-87 = HELL.

 

To be honest it would be nice if more express peak trains on harlem line or NH stopped at fordham so riders can get the west side of manhattan via express. The lex line huh yeah I'd use the shuttle to get the other lines it's not so hard.

 

I am not saying ohh kill off BXM8 let em use why cause it is faster and well utilized. The lines I have an attitude towards are basically all in the bottom 5 in ridership.  Need the east side huh use LIC LIRR trains to the till ESA. Then MNRR westchester for west side use up from 125th to 149th for the . Or fordham for the

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Clearly you were NOT listening. I said why not add a transfer stop to QM downtown buses on 34th street as they have to go on 34th before FDR anyway!!! So with QM buses that do not have downtown they could transfer to faster QM lines on the first drop-off. Most do have downtown branches All that is needed to take BXM18 out of the equation of queens riders is Transfer stop on queens blvd at forest hills for QM7/8 for those from QM21/18/x64/63/68. Union tpk and fresh meadows people already have QM8/7 direct to downtown. Add transfer stop to QM11 for those from QM4 and QM15/16/17 rego park will just use QM11 directly. Glendale has QM25 now the only buses left without downtown service is QM2/20 which simply need their own downtown variants that will cut down on transfer times considerably and Speed up downtown travel for Queens riders. However some QM lines few in number are redundant and not fast at all so it's a waste of time to even bother. QM18 saves almost zero time over the subway and with that Q10 LTD there there is a reason why it's 2nd to dead last in ridership with only QM3 having less riders BUT QM3 has only 3 trips so 129 over 3 trips is kinda high. But If it was so vital why was X51 eliminated? With more access with open-door stop added queens patrons will mostly no longer have a use for the BXM18. BXM18 is just that Bronx Riverdale to downtown.

And where would you put these people when the Downtown Loop buses are usually already crowded??  

 

I'd like to know which lines are "redundant"?? The QM18 serves Ozone Park which has NO immediate subway service in the area.  The train requires a bus ride unless you are right near the .  The QM3 serves an area with no subway service.  The only alternative is the LIRR.  X51 provided folks with an alternative to the which everyone knows can be problematic.  They should consider restoring that line esp. with the growth on the to give people alternative service to Flushing, because the is a long and painful commute.

[qjtransitmaster]

I was only talking about weak lines most express buses are useful but a few of them yeah you can cram them onto rails 129 extra riders is not much nor will LIRR get worse with 377 extra riders. Those who take QM21 are old and not fit enough to access the LIRR. If a ramp from their community to the LIRR station directly was built QM21 ridership would plummet fast. X63 serves areas not so close to LIRR.  Plus the way highways are in LI it's impossible for any extensive express bus service to manhattan from Nassau to be practical it would be too slow and indirect  vs 40 min super express peak trains a potential express bus has zero chance. I took a LIRR train from penn it was an express it got me to seaford in 40 mins!!!! How is that a hassle. Plus westchester you do realize that I-87 = HELL.

 

To be honest it would be nice if more express peak trains on harlem line or NH stopped at fordham so riders can get the west side of manhattan via   express. The lex line huh yeah I'd use the shuttle to get the other lines it's not so hard.

 

I am not saying ohh kill off BXM8 let em use   why cause it is faster and well utilized. The lines I have an attitude towards are basically all in the bottom 5 in ridership.  Need the east side huh use LIC LIRR trains to the   till ESA. Then MNRR westchester for west side use     up from 125th to 149th for the  . Or fordham for the . Now you sparked some interest.

 

I am well aware that you can't cram loads of express bus passengers onto rails but there are a few exceptions and the ones I mentioned are all in the bottom for ridership. QM21 is rank 30 QM18 is 34th out of 35 MTA bus express lines in ridership.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I was only talking about weak lines most express buses are useful but a few of them yeah you can cram them onto rails 129 extra riders is not much nor will LIRR get worse with 377 extra riders. Those who take QM21 are old and not fit enough to access the LIRR. If a ramp from their community to the LIRR station directly was built QM21 ridership would plummet fast. X63 serves areas not so close to LIRR.  Plus the way highways are in LI it's impossible for any extensive express bus service to manhattan from Nassau to be practical it would be too slow and indirect  vs 40 min super express peak trains a potential express bus has zero chance. I took a LIRR train from penn it was an express it got me to seaford in 40 mins!!!! How is that a hassle. Plus westchester you do realize that I-87 = HELL.

 

To be honest it would be nice if more express peak trains on harlem line or NH stopped at fordham so riders can get the west side of manhattan via   express. The lex line huh yeah I'd use the shuttle to get the other lines it's not so hard.

 

I am not saying ohh kill off BXM8 let em use   why cause it is faster and well utilized. The lines I have an attitude towards are basically all in the bottom 5 in ridership.  Need the east side huh use LIC LIRR trains to the   till ESA. Then MNRR westchester for west side use     up from 125th to 149th for the  . Or fordham for the . Now you sparked some interest.

 

I am well aware that you can't cram loads of express bus passengers onto rails but there are a few exceptions and the ones I mentioned are all in the bottom for ridership. QM21 is rank 30 QM18 is 34th out of 35 MTA bus express lines in ridership.

The QM21 does not have tons of old people using it and it also is in an area of Queens that is not near a subway.  The commute to the subway is a schlepp as well as to the LIRR so giving them rush hour service is not breaking the bank, plus the QM21 does not duplicate other services in the area.  All you keep harping on is this bus is ranked here so it should be cut.  The fact of the matter is some communities don't use their service as much as others.  That area that the QM21 serves is not exactly well-to-do.  It's actually relatively poor so it's not shocking that it doesn't have skyrocketing ridership, but that doesn't mean that service should be cut.  It makes the commutes of the residents there much easier to get to and from work and so it is kept.

[qjtransitmaster]

And where would you put these people when the Downtown Loop buses are usually already crowded??  

 

I'd like to know which lines are "redundant"?? The QM18 serves Ozone Park which has NO immediate subway service in the area.  The train requires a bus ride unless you are right near the .  The QM3 serves an area with no subway service.  The only alternative is the LIRR.  X51 provided folks with an alternative to the which everyone knows can be problematic.  They should consider restoring that line esp. with the growth on the to give people alternative service to Flushing, because the is a long and painful commute.

Q10 LTD is an alternative dude QM18 is not much faster and is ranked 34th in ridership with a measly 235 riders. Plus QM11 with it's ridership would welcome additional riders along with QM25 both with 431 and 309 riders respectively I am sure there is room for those 2 to grow in ridership by having X63/64/68 QM15/16/17/4/12 downtown riders transfer to either QM25 or QM11 Both will go direct to downtown from queens which would be much faster than going through manhattan traffic on 6th ave or 5th ave madison just to transfer vs from queens direct so transferring to QM11/25 is much quicker for queens folks. If those downtown buses can't handle the extra load then QM11 needs to either get more service OR extend via yellowstone to jewel ave with reroute.

 

X51 had a dismal 158 riders in-spite of having the longest service span of the queens village express lines and still had more than QM3 only slightly. QM3's ridership should have increased with X51's demise it didn't.

 

Here we go again with irrational rhetoric to defend buses with low ridership. Want to know a fast alternative to the it's frequent runs all day has discounted weekend fares and is only 2 stops away from manhattan it's called LIRR!!!   Restoring a line with 158 riders are you joking!!! Dude seriously. Only way to restore it is send it to chinatown flushing people don't need midtown via a bus. Bobtehpanda stated that in another thread. Plus $6 won't compete well vs $2.75 chinatown service.

 

Lets restore a line barely anybody used ASAP LOL. QM21 is near the LIRR most riders would cut their trips in half by switching to LIRR. The stops not near LIRR are either covered by X63 or are barely used I know I was on QM21 a few times.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Q10 LTD is an alternative dude QM18 is not much faster and is ranked 34th in ridership with a measly 235 riders. Plus QM11 with it's ridership would welcome additional riders along with QM25 both with 431 and 309 riders respectively I am sure there is room for those 2 to grow in ridership by having X63/64/68 QM15/16/17/4/12 downtown riders transfer to either QM25 or QM11 Both will go direct to downtown from queens which would be much faster than going through manhattan traffic on 6th ave or 5th ave madison just to transfer vs from queens direct so transferring to QM11/25 is much quicker for queens folks. If those downtown buses can't handle the extra load then QM11 needs to either get more service OR extend via yellowstone to jewel ave with reroute.

 

X51 had a dismal 158 riders in-spite of having the longest service span of the queens village express lines and still had more than QM3 only slightly. QM3's ridership should have increased with X51's demise it didn't.

 

Here we go again with irrational rhetoric to defend buses with low ridership. Want to know a fast alternative to the it's frequent runs all day has discounted weekend fares and is only 2 stops away from manhattan it's called LIRR!!!   Restoring a line with 158 riders are you joking!!! Dude seriously. Only way to restore it is send it to chinatown flushing people don't need midtown via a bus. Bobtehpanda stated that in another thread. Plus $6 won't compete well vs $2.75 chinatown service.

 

Lets restore a line barely anybody used ASAP LOL. QM21 is near the LIRR most riders would cut their trips in half by switching to LIRR. The stops not near LIRR are either covered by X63 or are barely used I know I was on QM21 a few times.

Uh yeah it's called a RECESSION!  I said it should be looked at.  Currently the only option people have is the and as much as you sit here touting the line it f*cks up a lot which leaves people with nothing else but the LIRR, which is more expensive than the express bus during peak hours, which is usually packed and overcrowded, so yes it should be considered.

 

Your logic is so ridiculous it's not even funny.  Stats do not tell the whole story and the sooner you get that through that thick head of yours the better you'll be. If you're going to go off of stats then I guess we should never introduce or consider restoring any bus lines.  Demographics change, new neighborhoods are created and they need to be served and the rails aren't always the answer, period.  

[B35 via Church]

I had a good laugh, now it's time to rip this crap into shreds.....

 

I was only talking about weak lines most express buses are useful but a few of them yeah you can cram them onto rails 129 extra riders is not much nor will LIRR get worse with 377 extra riders. Those who take QM21 are old and not fit enough to access the LIRR. If a ramp from their community to the LIRR station directly was built QM21 ridership would plummet fast. X63 serves areas not so close to LIRR.....

 

 

.....To be honest it would be nice if more express peak trains on harlem line or NH stopped at fordham so riders can get the west side of manhattan via express. The lex line huh yeah I'd use the shuttle to get the other lines it's not so hard....

 

I am not saying ohh kill off BXM8 let em use why cause it is faster and well utilized. The lines I have an attitude towards are basically all in the bottom 5 in ridership. 

I know you're not saying kill off some other express route (like a BxM8) that gets decent usage....

 

Regardless, thanks for illustrating my original point....

129 people or whatever "is not much nor will LIRR get worse with 377 extra riders."...

I'm not even arguing dire capacity issues - I'm arguing this basic attitude of cramming/shifting/diverting people onto the rails, just because it's the rail.... Ridership on the QM21 isn't the greatest, so those people should be shifted onto the LIRR.... Typical....

 

You aint slick, QJT..... You only brought up the LIRR because you knew full well there's no other express route QM21 users could xfer to within Queens to get to lower manhattan - You know, like "....Those by QM12&10 have QM11. Those by QM5/6/1 have QM7/8. QM4 area has QM11."....

 

 

Next, you sit here & state how not so hard the commute is - When you're not the one doing it.... Also typical.

Never mind maneuvering around the masses of people emanating from all over, after coming off the MNRR @ GCT or after coming off the LIRR @ Penn... to then have to make your way to some subway line (which is another can of worms, after having came off the commuter rail) - and doing the reverse for the PM commute 5 days a week.....

 

* It is a hassle when you're coming from LI & have to take the 42nd st shuttle to the lex or w/e AFTER coming off the LIRR if you need the east side....

* It is a hassle when you're coming from Westchester & have to take the 42nd st shuttle to the 7th av line or w/e AFTER coming off the MNRR  if you need the west side....

[Cait Sith]

Is this topic in need of a lock? I mean, it has veered waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off course.... I'm just sayin.

[B35 via Church]

Oh, I'm not done.... It gets better

 

Need the east side huh use LIC LIRR trains to the till ESA. Then MNRR westchester for west side use up from 125th to 149th for the . Or fordham for the

LIC LIRR trains? LMAO, that would involve xferring onto two separate LIRR trains for most folks before even taking the to xfer to some other subway line to get to lower manhattan...  4 seat ride FTW huh.... That's even worse than taking the LIRR into penn & taking 2 other subway lines to get to the east side.... It was stupid to even bring that up because it further reinforces my point of being a hassling commute....

 

That Westchester suggestion is even worse than your LIRR suggestion !

You're crazy if you think you're gonna get Westchester commuters to disembark at & backtrack from MNRR Harlem - 125th, to trek over to lexington for the 4/5, to ride UP to the bronx for the 2 at 149th & back down into manhattan for access to the west side.... Disembarking at Fordham & walking over to grand concourse for the D? Nope, not happening either....

 

This is the same dumb ass logic you came with regarding the M98 & having GWB area riders take the into the bronx to xfer to the Bx35 to get back to that part of Manhattan instead.....

 

For your sake, stop with these ridiculous suggestions because at this point you're continuing to embarrass yourself.....

 

...Plus the way highways are in LI it's impossible for any extensive express bus service to manhattan from Nassau to be practical it would be too slow and indirect  vs 40 min super express peak trains a potential express bus has zero chance. I took a LIRR train from penn it was an express it got me to seaford in 40 mins!!!! How is that a hassle. Plus westchester you do realize that I-87 = HELL.

Let's not sit here and & play stupid & resort to red herring arguments....

 

You can't take the LIRR directly from lower manhattan... So it serves no purpose to tell me it takes 40 mins from Penn to Seaford & implicate that's not a hassle - b/c that's not considering the commute from the point of origin from somewhere in lower manhattan to get to the LIRR in the first place....

 

All this you're going off on about highways & express bus service from Nassau county isn't what I'm arguing... I'm saying those riders have no choice but to take the LIRR because that's what's there - Not this assertion that express buses should be ran out to Nassau county so that they can be able to xfer to some other express bus to get to lower manhattan... That would be silly to sit up here & suggest....

 

 

 

Is this topic in need of a lock? I mean, it has veered waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off course.... I'm just sayin.

Doesn't matter to me either way... Although I would like to see how he'd weasel his way out of this one !

[Culver]

Oh, I'm not done.... It gets better

 

...

 

Doesn't matter to me either way... Although I would like to see how he'd weasel his way out of this one !

More 10-mile long regional bus routes?