Open the Doors

[RTOMan]

There's too many opinions when they start dictating on how things should work THERE way.

 

I agree but look it it this way..

 

We are doing the job..

 

They are behind a computer...

 

Opinions are like a**holes everybody has one(some a bunch).

 

When They gets tired of this thread they will nuke it like the other one with that guy Bellyaching abut the R Service.

[Dan05979]

Your right, a**holes are everywhere.

[S78 via Hylan]

I see where you guys are coming since you work the equipment all day, but just keep doing what you do best. You guys do an awesome job

 

I'm one of the few that appreciates you guys taking us to where we have to go and not bickering about what equipment should run on what line.

[RTOMan]

I see where you guys are coming since you work the equipment all day, but just keep doing what you do best. You guys do an awesome job

 

I'm one of the few that appreciates you guys taking us to where we have to go and not bickering about what equipment should run on what line.

 

Thank you.

[AndrewJC]

Safety comes before speed down here. Don't expect those couple seconds to go away. You might as well complain about all of the timers entering a terminal too. If a train can enter an intermediate station at such fast speeds and make a safe stop, why can't they streamline it for entering terminals at faster speeds too?

 

The reprimand here is against all of you non-employees who seem to think that you know how everything works here, and want to tell us how your way is better without having any real understanding of why things are done the way they are, and then when we come on here to EXPLAIN it to you, you STILL talk like you have better answers. Believe me, every idea you could possibly think of has been looked at hundreds of times already by the MTA, and if it really was better, it would have been done a long time ago.

 

I'm certainly not advocating that safety concerns be ignored. (No need for New York to experience a Moorgate-style crash.) But, if you've ridden (or operated) the L in recent years, you know that trains under CBTC enter terminals much faster than they did under the old signal system. The new technology (CBTC) achieves the same safety goal as the old technology (wayside block signals), but it does so faster.

 

(By the way, what's the safety issue here, anyway?)

 

Nostalgia was simply asking for more information. If you know the answer and want to give it to him, great. If not, that's fine too. Either way, he's been absolutely polite and respectful throughout.

 

There are lots of new ideas that the MTA considers, all the time, along with old ideas that were rejected in the past but may make more sense now. Look at the R211 order - open gangways between cars and wireless data transfer are under consideration.

 

Changing the entire system to save a few seconds is going to make a difference? Do you realize that these trains run on SCHEDULES? so eliminating what procedures are done now to speed things up because your in such a hurry wont make a difference because like I wrote before these trains run on schedules. Please do us a favor go sit down and mind your business.

 

The problem with these forums is EVERYONE has an opinion and EVERYONE thinks they know more than the people who run these trains. Snowblock stop letting them know how we work these trains, they don't need to know this information. They want to know, let them do what we did. File for the test and then get called.

 

Schedules can be revised. At a busy terminal on a busy line, a 15-second delay (as 7 line riders will soon encounter with the R188's) quickly adds up to a lot of person-hours. And if the 15-second delay interferes with trains running at maximum possible frequency, the impact is quite significant.

 

What happened to "Every second counts"?

 

Snowblock is a grown man. He can decide for himself who to reply to. As for me, I'm quite happy with my current job.

 

Its like them telling you how to do your job better because there in a goddamn rush. Its like them coming up with better ideas when they have NO clue how things work, and why they work the way they do. You gotta love it.

 

Chill. Nobody's telling them how to do their job.

[Snowblock]

Its like them telling you how to do your job better because there in a goddamn rush. Its like them coming up with better ideas when they have NO clue how things work, and why they work the way they do. You gotta love it.

 

Tonight at 145 St S/B/L/L I had holding lights, and kept hearing on the radio about signal problems around 135, so trains were moving slowly through there. After about 90 seconds of sitting there, this guy got off the train, came to my window and said "what's the hold up?" and I told (exactly the same as I already said over the PA) "we have another train ahead of us". He walked down a little bit, looked into the tunnel and then came back to me and said "there's no train there. NOW LETS GO!" .... did he really think I was going to take orders from him like that? seeesh.....

 

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Your question was answered way back on page 1, and if that isn't good enough for you, then too bad.

[ttcsubwayfan]

He walked down a little bit, looked into the tunnel and then came back to me and said "there's no train there. NOW LETS GO!"

 

Wow... what an a**hole!

 

SMH at some people.

[nostalgia]

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Your question was answered way back on page 1, and if that isn't good enough for you, then too bad.

I'm grateful for the information. The standard operation is the doors can be closed only from the location they were opened. However, I found an exception on the Franklin Shuttle where the inbound T/O opens the doors from one location and the relief T/O closes the doors from a different location. There was a discussion of dezoning. I assimilated the information and wondered why dezoning couldn't be done on other trains, understanding this may not be possible because of the different types of equipment.

 

Other members assimilate information and raise questions. However, I know that the tone of some messages doesn't induce cooperation.

 

There are other sources of information but not always available. A 42nd street shuttle T/O answered some of my questions so there wasn't a need to ask in this forum.

 

I've been retired for three years and don't have a desire to go back to work to find out the answers to questions.

[RTOMan]

I've been retired for three years and don't have a desire to go back to work to find out the answers to questions.

 

Retired from Where?

 

NYCTA?

[nostalgia]

Retired from Where?

 

NYCTA?

Not transit related. If I retired from NYCTA, I wouldn't have to ask questions in this forum.

[RTOMan]

Not transit related. If I retired from NYCTA, I wouldn't have to ask questions in this forum.

 

So if that's the case then you don't know anybody from where you got answers from there?

[nostalgia]

So if that's the case then you don't know anybody from where you got answers from there?

I'm confused by your statement, especially "anybody from where you answers from there?" I don't know "where" and "there" are.

 

I get information from this forum and T/Os and C/Rs I see on platforms.

 

It seems anybody can have an avatar that means or implies they work for the so at times it can be difficult to know who is right.

[RTOMan]

I've been retired for three years and don't have a desire to go back to work to find out the answers to questions.

 

I Got what you mean by this as you was going to work you would ask various RTO employees questions then?

 

Sorry should have made it more clear.

[nostalgia]

I was born in Brooklyn but moved to Washington, DC for a career with the US government. I retired in 2010 and moved back to NY in 2011. I've always been interested in transit but never worked in transit. I have friends who worked or retired from transit when I lived in Washington, DC.

 

Somehow, I stumbled onto this forum and use it to fill in the gaps of my knowledge. I know that New York is not Washington, DC however there are some transit principles that apply regardless of system, e.g. running time, pick list, recovery time, seniority, etc.

 

Sometimes, a transit employee who has a few minutes will answer my questions. What isn't answered I post to the forum to get an explanation. Unfortunately, nuances get lost in written communication and it's the nuances that make the big difference in understanding the system. I try to understand everything that is posted but I miss some nuances and post more questions. It would be easier with a phone conversation but that's not going to happen.

 

I look for information, not for a fight.

[RTOMan]

I was born in Brooklyn but moved to Washington, DC for a career with the US government. I retired in 2010 and moved back to NY in 2011. I've always been interested in transit but never worked in transit. I have friends who worked or retired from transit when I lived in Washington, DC.

 

Somehow, I stumbled onto this forum and use it to fill in the gaps of my knowledge. I know that New York is not Washington, DC however there are some transit principles that apply regardless of system, e.g. running time, pick list, recovery time, seniority, etc.

 

Sometimes, a transit employee who has a few minutes will answer my questions. What isn't answered I post to the forum to get an explanation. Unfortunately, nuances get lost in written communication and it's the nuances that make the big difference in understanding the system. I try to understand everything that is posted but I miss some nuances and post more questions. It would be easier with a phone conversation but that's not going to happen.

 

I look for information, not for a fight.

 

Sometimes with this *Job* giving out too much Information can give you agitta. Just saying. That's why sometimes its best to not say anything.

[nostalgia]

Sometimes with this *Job* giving out too much Information can give you agitta. Just saying. That's why sometimes its best to not say anything.

I don't expect anybody to jeopardize their employment. I'm don't know what agitta is but it sounds terrible.

[RTOMan]

I don't expect anybody to jeopardize their employment. I'm don't know what agitta is but it sounds terrible.

 

Italian for upset Stomach... 

[nostalgia]

Italian for upset Stomach...

I typed "agitta" in google. "Agitta" is the name of a person who has a twitter account.

[RTOMan]

I typed "agitta" in google. "Agitta" is the name of a person who has a twitter account.

 

I  must have spelled it wrong then...

 

My friends mother (who is Italian ) says that to him constantly..

[RTOPRO]

I'm certainly not advocating that safety concerns be ignored. (No need for New York to experience a Moorgate-style crash.) But, if you've ridden (or operated) the L in recent years, you know that trains under CBTC enter terminals much faster than they did under the old signal system. The new technology (CBTC) achieves the same safety goal as the old technology (wayside block signals), but it does so faster.

 

(By the way, what's the safety issue here, anyway?)

 

Nostalgia was simply asking for more information. If you know the answer and want to give it to him, great. If not, that's fine too. Either way, he's been absolutely polite and respectful throughout.

 

There are lots of new ideas that the MTA considers, all the time, along with old ideas that were rejected in the past but may make more sense now. Look at the R211 order - open gangways between cars and wireless data transfer are under consideration.

 

 

Schedules can be revised. At a busy terminal on a busy line, a 15-second delay (as 7 line riders will soon encounter with the R188's) quickly adds up to a lot of person-hours. And if the 15-second delay interferes with trains running at maximum possible frequency, the impact is quite significant.

 

What happened to "Every second counts"?

 

Snowblock is a grown man. He can decide for himself who to reply to. As for me, I'm quite happy with my current job.

 

 

Chill. Nobody's telling them how to do their job.

 

Now you just answered the question yourself in regards to trains entering terminals in comparison to the L line CBTC however like everything else down there all it takes is one accident to change things. When the day comes that a train running on CBTC rolls into the terminal and hits the block even CBTC run trains will be modified to enter terminals with more caution.

 

As for the 211 order and the constant mentioning of open gangways. I can assure all that it will definitely positively not happen. Without getting into a big thing about 75 feet car having a slicing action on curves making gangways logistically unrealistic these cars are not 100% guaranteed against breakaways of the permanently linked cars. As a matter of fact the links that hold those cars together are subject to failure due to the fact that they have to allow a certain about of give for the back and forth movement of the train to keep the bigger pieces from cracking and having a major structural failure. Breakaways with open gangways is not something NYCT wants to ever deal with. They threw the line on the solicitation for car builders just like they throw a lot of concepts that aren't actually used in the final product.

[CenSin]

If it aint broke why fix it?

…because progress and improvement should always be under consideration. "I don't know why. It just is." would have also sufficed.

[nostalgia]

I  must have spelled it wrong then...

 

My friends mother (who is Italian ) says that to him constantly..

Agita. (Googled on "Italian for stomach ache.") Like the spelling bee, I should have asked for the definition and its use in a sentence. LOL!

[mediccjh]

Tonight at 145 St S/B/L/L I had holding lights, and kept hearing on the radio about signal problems around 135, so trains were moving slowly through there. After about 90 seconds of sitting there, this guy got off the train, came to my window and said "what's the hold up?" and I told (exactly the same as I already said over the PA) "we have another train ahead of us". He walked down a little bit, looked into the tunnel and then came back to me and said "there's no train there. NOW LETS GO!" .... did he really think I was going to take orders from him like that? seeesh.....

 

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Your question was answered way back on page 1, and if that isn't good enough for you, then too bad.

I had to key-by a signal that night by 72nd St; were you my follower?

[AndrewJC]

Now you just answered the question yourself in regards to trains entering terminals in comparison to the L line CBTC however like everything else down there all it takes is one accident to change things. When the day comes that a train running on CBTC rolls into the terminal and hits the block even CBTC run trains will be modified to enter terminals with more caution.

 

As for the 211 order and the constant mentioning of open gangways. I can assure all that it will definitely positively not happen. Without getting into a big thing about 75 feet car having a slicing action on curves making gangways logistically unrealistic these cars are not 100% guaranteed against breakaways of the permanently linked cars. As a matter of fact the links that hold those cars together are subject to failure due to the fact that they have to allow a certain about of give for the back and forth movement of the train to keep the bigger pieces from cracking and having a major structural failure. Breakaways with open gangways is not something NYCT wants to ever deal with. They threw the line on the solicitation for car builders just like they throw a lot of concepts that aren't actually used in the final product.

 

CBTC has fine-grained speed control. It protects against bumper block collisions at least as well as slow GT's do with conventional wayside signals, since conventional wayside signals only have crude, indirect speed control. In particular, a suicidal train operator can satisfy a GT by bridging an IJ and waiting for the timer to run out - and then wrap the controller to pick up max speed past the first signal (which has already cleared), tripping only at the next signal. The signal engineers designing the system have to make sure that even a crazy train operator like that won't kill himself and his passengers - hence the extreme slowdown. With CBTC, none of that is necessary - the train will simply not go faster than the signal system deems safe, period.

 

The only reason trains have to slow down so much entering (non-CBTC) terminals is that the GT system of speed control is so crude. Trains don't actually have to go so that slowly to be safe, but GT's can only enforce an average speed limit over the distance from one IJ to the next, not an absolute speed limit at any given point. CBTC can enforce an absolute speed limit, and, as such, provides at least as much safety as a traditional wayside signal system does entering a terminal, despite the higher speeds.

 

Again, I'm curious - what's the safety issue with the door operation procedure? What would the potential hazard be if the rezoning process could take place with the doors open? I'm not saying there isn't one - I just don't see it.

 

Nobody's considering 75 foot cars with open gangways. The proposal is for 60 foot cars with open gangways. And while your breakaway concern is an interesting one, I'd be interested in seeing how the other transit properties that have adopted open gangways (there are many, including some of the oldest and most crowded systems in the world) have handled it before rejecting the notion out of hand.