Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[TrainFanInfinity]

What is the fuss about what borough Riverdale is in? It is just a neighborhood in the Bronx, and nothing can change that. If you want to be part of Manhattan, move to somewhere in it.

 

Back on topic, so now that the M60 and the Bx41 are Select Bus Service, I made this:

 

http://goo.gl/maps/mcXig

 

I don't know whether the proposed route is supposed to make all the stops either in the Bronx or Queens, so I made it semi-express.

Edited July 19, 2014 by TrainFanInfinity

[B35 via Church]

Close enough (1899).

 

Well yeah, Long Island nowadays is exclusively pinpointed towards Nassau and Suffolk, but I'm saying that geographically, Queens is still part of Long Island and Brooklyn as well. Are there differences, of course. How Brooklyn and Queens sees them selves in association with Long Island is up to them (I tend to say I'm a city resident, because we, as in Brooklyn and Queens, are within NYC limits). Most of us don't associate ourselves with being LI'ers and rather with city folks, but still, geographically, the 4 are long island.

Yeah, I knew you were talking geographically...

 

My thing is, you can't logically bring up Brooklyn & Queens as being part of LI, but separate yourself from being called a LI-er by saying you're a city resident at the same time.... It's either Brooklynites & Queens residents are Long Islanders or they're not.... You're making my point when you say Brooklyn & Queens are within NYC limits...

 

Let me just bottomline this... If you're gonna make the claim that we're in/on LI, Why don't you call yourself a Long Islander then?

If you are currently residing in a particular region, you are said to be a patron of that region - Which is what being a Long Islander is, to someone being a patron of Long Island......

 

This is why I don't bring up the technical/geographical argument... It's antiquated (which is why I brought up Idlewild airport... Who calls JFK airport that shit... Lol).... Brooklyn & Queens represents 40% of NYC & Nassau (especially) and Suffolk wanted no part of that - Otherwise, the notion of the 5 boroughs wouldn't exist - You would just have "Long Island", New York (county), Richmond county, and Bronx county.....

 

So the 4 are not long island, just because they are on the same mass of land.... If that were the case, Bronx would be considered upstate new york

 

 

(Bx13)

 

Should the AM rush variation of the Bx13 (to Elton Avenue) be eliminated?

 

Bx33

 

I don't know how effective this would be, but what about making the Bx33 a loop route through Port Morris. The route would originate at Harlem, and the Bx33 would run in Port Morris in a Loop, with the route completely utilizing Willow Avenue southbound, and Walnut northbound, then back to Harlem. 

 

There would be a small decrease in runtime, which would save ~$49,810 annually

 

- Bx13? No, because the Bx6 can use all the help it gets transporting riders to/from the & the ..... It's not gonna come with any more service increases to the Bx6 (you can partially thank the advent of the Bx46 for that), so keeping 13's running to 3rd av is the next best thing....

 

(funny..... throughout that whole time the Bx46 talks were ongoing on here, I'm surprised no one (that I can recall anyway) brought up combining the 13 & the 46; since there were all sorts of other ideas being thrown around there)

 

- Bx33 idea.... I thought about this a long time ago (back when I regularly posted on RD)... Maybe it can be considered if & only if the Bx17 were to run down to the industry (because the 33 doesn't exactly shoot across 138th in a quick manner) so that those that work in Pt. Morris won't have to suffer with longer waits then they already have to deal with, w/ the current way the Bx33 is handled.... Thing is with the 17 though, it looping around the MillBrook houses to terminate doesn't help.....

 

Let me put it another way.... Now that I think about it a little more, this would result in less buses on the line; could yield a potential Bx18 situation (with the way that loops down undercliff & back up sedgwick in Morris Hgts., to end @ the Concourse @ 170th..... The Bx33 has long layovers on both ends of the route; I wouldn't subject that route to having no layover in Pt. Morris & a longer layover, over there by 135th st .... IDK if you are or aren't, but don't underestimate the usage on that route.....

 

JMO....

Edited July 19, 2014 by B35 via Church

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

- Bx13? No, because the Bx6 can use all the help it gets transporting riders to/from the & the ..... It's not gonna come with any more service increases to the Bx6 (you can partially thank the advent of the Bx46 for that), so keeping 13's running to 3rd av is the next best thing....

 

(funny..... throughout that whole time the Bx46 talks were ongoing on here, I'm surprised no one (that I can recall anyway) brought up combining the 13 & the 46; since there were all sorts of other ideas being thrown around there)

 

- Bx33 idea.... I thought about this a long time ago (back when I regularly posted on RD)... Maybe it can be considered if & only if the Bx17 were to run down to the industry (because the 33 doesn't exactly shoot across 138th in a quick manner) so that those that work in Pt. Morris won't have to suffer with longer waits then they already have to deal with, w/ the current way the Bx33 is handled.... Thing is with the 17 though, it looping around the MillBrook houses to terminate doesn't help.....

 

Let me put it another way.... Now that I think about it a little more, this would result in less buses on the line; could yield a potential Bx18 situation (with the way that loops down undercliff & back up sedgwick in Morris Hgts., to end @ the Concourse @ 170th..... The Bx33 has long layovers on both ends of the route; I wouldn't subject that route to having no layover in Pt. Morris & a longer layover, over there by 135th st .... IDK if you are or aren't, but don't underestimate the usage on that route.....

 

JMO....

As for the Bx13, I would've made those eliminated trips into Bx6 trips between Amsterdam and Elton only, but I guess if the current set up is okay, whatever.

 

The part about the 33 having long layovers is news to me. I didn't think about service decreases, because the trip would have came in around 49-51 minutes (allowing to retain the current headways), and earlier during the lightly used trips (first and last few).

[B35 via Church]

As for the Bx13, I would've made those eliminated trips into Bx6 trips between Amsterdam and Elton only, but I guess if the current set up is okay, whatever.

 

The part about the 33 having long layovers is news to me. I didn't think about service decreases, because the trip would have came in around 49-51 minutes (allowing to retain the current headways), and earlier during the lightly used trips (first and last few).

- The Bx6 earlier on in the year had slight service increases during the rush, so that is another reason they won't add anymore service (during the rush) on that route......

 

As for what you would have done with those few trips on the Bx13, I don't see what having those trips transferred to the Bx6 (b/w Amsterdam & Elton) would:

 

1] have anything to do w/ the Bx13, and...

2] help the Bx6 much.....

 

The Bx13 has much less service than the Bx6, so I'm not understanding why you would take away from the 13 to give to the 6; doesn't make sense.... The issue isn't [too much service on the 13 & not enough service on the 6] (which is what the having of those 3rd av Bx13 trips transferred over to the Bx6 suggests to me)..... If you knew enough of the ridership patterns up there, hell, you would have been better off simply stating that those few Bx13 3rd av trips become short turns running to/from the - Not cutting service from off the 13 to give to the 6..... Those resources would be better utilized on the Bx13 b/w Washington Hgts & [yankee stadium OR to 149th], rather than Bx6 trips b/w Amsterdam & Elton......

 

What also doesn't make sense is having short turn Bx6's start at Amsterdam on the Manhattan end.... Too many ppl wait for the Bx6 after coming off the , so a Bx6 short turn should (at minimum) help those riders out......

 

You should perhaps do some more fanning in those areas around the Bx6 & Bx13 or something......

 

 

- Yeah, the Bx33 has long layovers on both ends of the route (what I will say though is, it seems as it the layover on the manhattan end is a little longer).... If buses are late heading back to manhattan, sometimes you'll see them taking no layover in pt. morris, but I would not suggest the 33 to loop through pt. morris with no scheduled layover whatsoever...... Nah, I'm not saying you thought about decreasing service - I am saying if you turn the 33 into a loop route, there's a good chance that would happen...

 

The only thing I think is worth discussing w/ the Bx33 is if it should serve the other side of St. Nicholas Park (or not)....

Edited July 20, 2014 by B35 via Church

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

- The Bx6 earlier on in the year had slight service increases during the rush, so that is another reason they won't add anymore service (during the rush) on that route......

 

As for what you would have done with those few trips on the Bx13, I don't see what having those trips transferred to the Bx6 (b/w Amsterdam & Elton) would:

 

1] have anything to do w/ the Bx13, and...

2] help the Bx6 much.....

 

The Bx13 has much less service than the Bx6, so I'm not understanding why you would take away from the 13 to give to the 6; doesn't make sense.... The issue isn't [too much service on the 13 & not enough service on the 6] (which is what the having of those 3rd av Bx13 trips transferred over to the Bx6 suggests to me)..... If you knew enough of the ridership patterns up there, hell, you would have been better off simply stating that those few Bx13 3rd av trips become short turns running to/from the - Not cutting service from off the 13 to give to the 6..... Those resources would be better utilized on the Bx13 b/w Washington Hgts & [yankee stadium OR to 149th], rather than Bx6 trips b/w Amsterdam & Elton......

 

What also doesn't make sense is having short turn Bx6's start at Amsterdam on the Manhattan end.... Too many ppl wait for the Bx6 after coming off the , so a Bx6 short turn should (at minimum) help those riders out......

 

You should perhaps do some more fanning in those areas around the Bx6 & Bx13 or something......

 

 

- Yeah, the Bx33 has long layovers on both ends of the route (what I will say though is, it seems as it the layover on the manhattan end is a little longer).... If buses are late heading back to manhattan, sometimes you'll see them taking no layover in pt. morris, but I would not suggest the 33 to loop through pt. morris with no scheduled layover whatsoever...... Nah, I'm not saying you thought about decreasing service - I am saying if you turn the 33 into a loop route, there's a good chance that would happen...

 

The only thing I think is worth discussing w/ the Bx33 is if it should serve the other side of St. Nicholas Park (or not)....

Wait, I confused Amsterdam with Broadway for a second. Yeah, I honestly meant the train, I confused Broadway with Amsterdam Avenue for a second.

 

Towards the bronx, they're  on a unison headway (the headway towards the bronx is every 4 minutes). I see that the headway is every 6 minutes to Manhattan. If that service was cut (to say) it would make less of an impact going to the bronx than towards manhattan. Eh, I might have mistaken that (because the times towards Manhattan are listed under bronx terminal market, but I guess I mistaken that because it seems that both would take similar amount of times (based on distance), but it seems that the 161 portion is heavier and more traffic prone than River Avenue.

 

I see what you're saying with the Bx33 and the possible cut of service if it was a loop route. I didn't intitally think the MTA would low ball it that much. However, they originally (during 2010) wanted to make weekend and weekday evening service non existent, so yeah, it would make sense I guess that the MTA would try cutting service in bits and piece since then (in the first possible moment).

 

Now that I looked at it carefully, the loop would actually eliminate one bus during midday hours (only 3 buses, instead of 4 would be used).

[B35 via Church]

Wait, I confused Amsterdam with Broadway for a second. Yeah, I honestly meant the train, I confused Broadway with Amsterdam Avenue for a second.

 

Towards the bronx, they're  on a unison headway (the headway towards the bronx is every 4 minutes). I see that the headway is every 6 minutes to Manhattan. If that service was cut (to say) it would make less of an impact going to the bronx than towards manhattan. Eh, I might have mistaken that (because the times towards Manhattan are listed under bronx terminal market), but I guess I mistaken that because it seems that both would take similar amount of times (based on distance), but it seems that the 161 portion is heavier and more traffic prone than River Avenue.

 

I see what you're saying with the Bx33 and the possible cut of service if it was a loop route. I didn't intitally think the MTA would low ball it that much. However, they originally (during 2010) wanted to make weekend and weekday evening service non existent, so yeah, it would make sense I guess that the MTA would try cutting service in bits and piece since then (in the first possible moment).

 

Now that I looked at it carefully, the loop would actually eliminate one bus during midday hours (only 3 buses, instead of 4 would be used).

- Alright, cool, it happens.... Easy mistake to make.

 

Yes, 161st is more traffic prone than river avenue - especially 161st, west of Morris.... Unison of headways isn't (esp. when we're talking about 4 vs 6 mins) a reason service should be taken away from the Bx13 there.... Those Ogden folks would have a fit..... You also have to think about the High Bridge riders when you're suggesting alterations to the 13....

 

- To be perfectly honest, I don't like the idea of loop buses in urban areas (the B74 is a rare example where it infact works out).... Even though the Bx33 is short (compared to the average bus route in the city), it's not really that short to where looping the route would be beneficial.... Sure it saves money for the MTA, but it would screw all the folks that ride within Manhattan (it's more than you might expect, trust me) & b/w the Bronx - Manhattan.... There's obviously intra-bronx ridership (mainly from the east, to the @ 138th for some strange reason) but TBH, there's a lot of walking to the @ Brook & Cypress by folks in that part of Mott Haven too.....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Okay. I also have another proposal containing the BxM4 and affilates (pretty common one)

 

I do agree with the sorts of discussion with extending the BxM4 to Yonkers Raceway.

 

Option 1

I would extend the BxM4 to Yonkers Raceway on both weekdays and weekends. The BxM4 to Manhattan from Yonkers would start running starting at 1:30 PM, until 10:30 PM. To Yonkers, on Weekdays, the BxM4 would start running from 7:45 AM to 10:45 AM, then every 2 hours until 2:45 PM to Yonkers, and then starting again at 9:15 PM, until 12 AM.

 

There would be 12 extra minutes allotted in this extension. 

 

On Weekends, I would extend the BxM4 all times (Saturdays from 6:48 AM to 9:48 AM to Manhattan; 8:48 to 8:48 PM), however, with a change in schedule to Yonkers on Saturdays, and Sundays. 

 

On the weekend, all the BxM4's would leave Manhattan at :25 (arriving Yonkers at :32 the following hour, and go back out at :48, giving it a 16 minute layover period). In conjunction with this, all the BxM3's would leave Manhattan at :55, and departing Yonkers at :30.

 

In addition, I would make the BxM3/4/4C stop together.

 

 

There would be modifications of several stops.

 

The BxM3/4 would stop with the BxM4C at 26 Street, and then would make the following pick ups as follows:

 

39 Street (consolidate the two stop on the same block)

47 Street (move the BxM3/4 stop up one block)

53 Street (move the BxM4C stop one block down)

62 Street (move the BxM4C stop one block down)

69 Street (move the BxM3/4 stop one block down)

80 Street (add a BxM4C stop there)

84 Street (consolidate both stops)

99 Street ( consolidate both stops)

123 Street (add the BxM4C to the stop rotation)

 

BTW, I don't think the BxM4 needs to do that loop in the South Bronx, to go out on the Triboro, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) 5th/ Madison north of 99 Street to the Madison Avenue Bridge, then the Major Deegan would be similar in runtime, however have a possibility for more riders. 

 

Drop Offs:

125 Street (Add the BxM4C)

97 Street (Move the BxM3/4 stop one block up, BxM4C down one)

85 Street (consolidate both stops)

79 Street (Add the BxM4C)

69 Street (Consolidate both Stops)

59 Street (Move the BxM3/4 stop 2 blocks down)

51 Street ( Move BxM3/4 Stops 4 blocks down)

42 Street ( Move the 4c one down, the 3/4 two blocks up)

34 Street (move the 4c two down, and the 3/4 one up)

26 Street 

 

The BxM4C stop at 23 Street would be eliminated.

 

The BxM4 would stop on McLean Avenue/ CP Avenue and Yonkers/ CP.

 

Option 2

 

The BxM4 extension would be full time, all day, every day. In conjunction with this, the BxM4C super express and short turns would be consolidated. The last pickup/ first drop off would be Mile Square Road and Central Park Avenue.

 

 

- Alright, cool, it happens.... Easy mistake to make.

 

Yes, 161st is more traffic prone than river avenue - especially 161st, west of Morris.... Unison of headways isn't (esp. when we're talking about 4 vs 6 mins) a reason service should be taken away from the Bx13 there.... Those Ogden folks would have a fit..... You also have to think about the High Bridge riders when you're suggesting alterations to the 13....

 

- To be perfectly honest, I don't like the idea of loop buses in urban areas (the B74 is a rare example where it infact works out).... Even though the Bx33 is short (compared to the average bus route in the city), it's not really that short to where looping the route would be beneficial.... Sure it saves money for the MTA, but it would screw all the folks that ride within Manhattan (it's more than you might expect, trust me) & b/w the Bronx - Manhattan.... There's obviously intra-bronx ridership (mainly from the east, to the   @ 138th for some strange reason) but TBH, there's a lot of walking to the   @ Brook & Cypress by folks in that part of Mott Haven too.....

Okay. Another question. Would it be feasible to extend the Bx6 to Broadway during the late night hours. They currently terminate at Amsterdam (which is what confused me at first, because I thought that it would've met the one by then).

Edited July 24, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

Okay. I also have another proposal containing the BxM4 and affilates (pretty common one)

 

I do agree with the sorts of discussion with extending the BxM4 to Yonkers Raceway.

 

Option 1

I would extend the BxM4 to Yonkers Raceway on both weekdays and weekends. The BxM4 to Manhattan from Yonkers would start running starting at 1:30 PM, until 10:30 PM. To Yonkers, on Weekdays, the BxM4 would start running from 7:45 AM to 10:45 AM, then every 2 hours until 2:45 PM to Yonkers, and then starting again at 9:15 PM, until 12 AM.

 

There would be 12 extra minutes allotted in this extension. 

 

On Weekends, I would extend the BxM4 all times (Saturdays from 6:48 AM to 9:48 AM to Manhattan; 8:48 to 8:48 PM), however, with a change in schedule to Yonkers on Saturdays, and Sundays. 

 

On the weekend, all the BxM4's would leave Manhattan at :25 (arriving Yonkers at :32 the following hour, and go back out at :48, giving it a 16 minute layover period). In conjunction with this, all the BxM3's would leave Manhattan at :55, and departing Yonkers at :30.

 

In addition, I would make the BxM3/4/4C stop together.

 

 

There would be modifications of several stops.

 

The BxM3/4 would stop with the BxM4C at 26 Street, and then would make the following pick ups as follows:

 

39 Street (consolidate the two stop on the same block)

47 Street (move the BxM3/4 stop up one block)

53 Street (move the BxM4C stop one block down)

62 Street (move the BxM4C stop one block down)

69 Street (move the BxM3/4 stop one block down)

80 Street (add a BxM4C stop there)

84 Street (consolidate both stops)

99 Street ( consolidate both stops)

123 Street (add the BxM4C to the stop rotation)

 

BTW, I don't think the BxM4 needs to do that loop in the South Bronx, to go out on the Triboro, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) 5th/ Madison north of 99 Street to the Madison Avenue Bridge, then the Major Deegan would be similar in runtime, however have a possibility for more riders. 

 

Drop Offs:

125 Street (Add the BxM4C)

97 Street (Move the BxM3/4 stop one block up, BxM4C down one)

85 Street (consolidate both stops)

79 Street (Add the BxM4C)

69 Street (Consolidate both Stops)

59 Street (Move the BxM3/4 stop 2 blocks down)

51 Street ( Move BxM3/4 Stops 4 blocks down)

42 Street ( Move the 4c one down, the 3/4 two blocks up)

34 Street (move the 4c two down, and the 3/4 one up)

26 Street 

 

The BxM4C stop at 23 Street would be eliminated.

 

The BxM4 would stop on McLean Avenue/ CP Avenue and Yonkers/ CP.

 

Option 2

 

The BxM4 extension would be full time, all day, every day. In conjunction with this, the BxM4C super express and short turns would be consolidated. The last pickup/ first drop off would be Mile Square Road and Central Park Avenue.

All of this nonsense about extending the BxM4 to Yonkers Raceway... How many more riders would this garner?  There are people in Yonkers that take the BxM4 at the Katonah and 242nd street border, but those are people that are very close to the border.  The rest of the people in Yonkers just use Metro-North and are picked up.  If Yonkers Raceway is supposedly the main draw, why?  Who would get on and where?  The Bronx Zoo is a big pick up for the BxM11 and the ridership comes mainly from the Upper East Side and or tourists in Midtown, and also because it's safe, stops right by the zoo and is faster than the subway and has no competition from Metro-North.  In comparison, the BxM4 mainly serves elderly folks and those who don't want to use the subway or Metro-North, as Metro-North requires a transfer. 

 

Also, I don't know what "loop" you're talking about.  The BxM4 starts on the Concourse right by 138th street and uses the Madison Avenue Bridge to get to and from Manhattan which is short and quick.  Most of it's "expressway" travel (if you will lol) is along the Concourse itself.

 

Also, there is no need to consolidate the 80 and 84th street stop.  The stop is at 84th for those near 86th street.  I use both stops depending on where I'm going and it's certainly helpful when coming to or from Riverdale and transfering to or from the BxM2 or BxM1.  When I use the BxM2, I like to transfer at 80th to the BxM4 or 84th and when I take the BxM1, I walk from 86th or 79th to 80th or 84th.  After 84th it's 15 blocks to 99th street, never mind the hilly terrain in parts of Madison, so the stops are needed at both locations, especially for the elderly folks.

 

This extension would have to pick up more people in Yonkers, otherwise it would be completely useless and add more run time, making the route even more longer unnecessarily.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

All of this nonsense about extending the BxM4 to Yonkers Raceway... How many more riders would this garner?  There are people in Yonkers that take the BxM4 at the Katonah and 242nd street border, but those are people that are very close to the border.  The rest of the people in Yonkers just use Metro-North and are picked up.  If Yonkers Raceway is supposedly the main draw, why?  Who would get on and where?  The Bronx Zoo is a big pick up for the BxM11 and the ridership comes mainly from the Upper East Side and or tourists in Midtown, and also because it's safe, stops right by the zoo and is faster than the subway and has no competition from Metro-North.  In comparison, the BxM4 mainly serves elderly folks and those who don't want to use the subway or Metro-North, as Metro-North requires a transfer. 

 

Also, I don't know what "loop" you're talking about.  The BxM4 starts on the Concourse right by 138th street and uses the Madison Avenue Bridge to get to and from Manhattan which is short and quick.  Most of it's "expressway" travel (if you will lol) is along the Concourse itself.

 

Also, there is no need to consolidate the 80 and 84th street stop.  The stop is at 84th for those near 86th street.  I use both stops depending on where I'm going and it's certainly helpful when coming to or from Riverdale and transfering to or from the BxM2 or BxM1.  When I use the BxM2, I like to transfer at 80th to the BxM4 or 84th and when I take the BxM1, I walk from 86th or 79th to 80th or 84th.  After 84th it's 15 blocks to 99th street, never mind the hilly terrain in parts of Madison, so the stops are needed at both locations, especially for the elderly folks.

 

This extension would have to pick up more people in Yonkers, otherwise it would be completely useless and add more run time, making the route even more longer unnecessarily.

The BxM4 to Yonkers has been proposed in the same mentality that the BxM11 goes to the Bronx Zoo, and to have some weekend express in that part of Yonkers (ever since the 4c was eliminated as a compromise). You could get some people from those areas take the bus into the city and work as a daily commute, but the main reason is to gain riders, specifically from people in the city going to Yonkers Raceway, specifically when the 4c stops running. It also runs for a small period where the 4c is also running. If it's marketed or something, you might be able to get riders to use the 4/4C. The only problem is the different fare bases ($6.00 for the 4, and $7.50 for the 4c).

 

The loop is meant for the 4c, not the 4 (my mistake).

 

I'm not consolidating the 80 st and 84 street stops. The BxM3/4 &4C both make stops on those streets, but have different stop signs (just combine the two stops into one, in other words).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The BxM4 to Yonkers has been proposed in the same mentality that the BxM11 goes to the Bronx Zoo, and to have some weekend express in that part of Yonkers (ever since the 4c was eliminated as a compromise). You could get some people from those areas take the bus into the city and work as a daily commute, but the main reason is to gain riders, specifically from people in the city going to Yonkers Raceway, specifically when the 4c stops running. It also runs for a small period where the 4c is also running. If it's marketed or something, you might be able to get riders to use the 4/4C. The only problem is the different fare bases ($6.00 for the 4, and $7.50 for the 4c).

 

The loop is meant for the 4c, not the 4 (my mistake).

 

I'm not consolidating the 80 st and 84 street stops. The BxM3/4 &4C both make stops on those streets, but have different stop signs (just combine the two stops into one, in other words).

Different bus stop signs? The timetables at both stops for the BxM3 and BxM4 are already combined.  I see no need to combine the physical bus stop signage, as both buses serve completely different areas... Now the BxM1 and BxM2 share signage like that, but that's only at stops where isn't enough room since there's the BxM18, Bx10, Bx20 and Hudson Rail Link at those stops too.  In those occasions, the stops just say Midtown, which I don't care for in terms of marketability since both express buses serve different areas of Midtown.  Someone going to say 9th Avenue on the West Side would be more suited taking the BxM2 rather than schlepping from the BxM1, which serves East Midtown.

 

The question that I have is why would those people in Yonkers give up Metro-North? Metro-North to those parts of Westchester can be reached in about 28 minutes.  You would have to have a super express variant of the BxM4 to really attract more people.  Maybe you could get some BxM4C riders but that's a big maybe.

 

On another note though, the BxM11 can be dead during the cold months going to Manhattan, as the Zoo crowd is almost non-existent, so this must be taken into consideration with the BxM4 as well.  Usage on the BxM11 mainly come from Pelham Parkway, and at times you get folks north of that and I assume from the Westchester border too to some extent, which is odd because there is Metro-North in those areas.  It could be it's location perhaps.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Different bus stop signs? The timetables at both stops for the BxM3 and BxM4 are already combined.  I see no need to combine the physical bus stop signage, as both buses serve completely different areas... Now the BxM1 and BxM2 share signage like that, but that's only at stops where isn't enough room since there's the BxM18, Bx10, Bx20 and Hudson Rail Link at those stops too.  In those occasions, the stops just say Midtown, which I don't care for in terms of marketability since both express buses serve different areas of Midtown.  Someone going to say 9th Avenue on the West Side would be more suited taking the BxM2 rather than schlepping from the BxM1, which serves East Midtown.

 

The question that I have is why would those people in Yonkers give up Metro-North? Metro-North to those parts of Westchester can be reached in about 28 minutes.  You would have to have a super express variant of the BxM4 to really attract more people.  Maybe you could get some BxM4C riders but that's a big maybe.

I understand where you're coming from. As for the consolidated stops, they'll probably be two sets of boxes there (one for the 3/4, and the 4c on it's own), kinda like the BM's and their boxes. The stops would be consolidated, since at this point, the 4 and 4c would both serve Yonkers Raceway, although at different times (some overlap between the two).

 

As for time comparisons: BxM4C from Madison/39 to Yonkers (12:04- 12:48 PM; 44 minutes), Proposed BxM4 (12:49 PM-2:04 PM; 1 HOUR 15 minutes), MNRR Hudson Line to Yonkers, then 25/20  from RR to Yonkers Raceway (12:20- 12:52, 1:00-1:25, 1:31-1:41; 1 Hour 21 minutes), MNRR Harlem Line to Yonkers , then 7 from RR to Yonkers Raceway (12:25-12:56, 1:04-1:10; 45 minutes). You could have SOME (not guaranteeing it) use the new BxM4 because of the lower prices and the less amount of transfers. The main point is though garner riders from the Casino to NYC and vice versa. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I understand where you're coming from. As for the consolidated stops, they'll probably be two sets of boxes there (one for the 3/4, and the 4c on it's own), kinda like the BM's and their boxes. The stops would be consolidated, since at this point, the 4 and 4c would both serve Yonkers Raceway, although at different times (some overlap between the two).

 

As for time comparisons: BxM4C from Madison/39 to Yonkers (12:04- 12:48 PM; 44 minutes), Proposed BxM4 (12:49 PM-2:04 PM; 1 HOUR 15 minutes), MNRR Hudson Line to Yonkers, then 25/20  from RR to Yonkers Raceway (12:20- 12:52, 1:00-1:25, 1:31-1:41; 1 Hour 21 minutes), MNRR Harlem Line to Yonkers , then 7 from RR to Yonkers Raceway (12:25-12:56, 1:04-1:10; 45 minutes). You could have SOME (not guaranteeing it) use the new BxM4 because of the lower prices and the less amount of transfers. The main point is though garner riders from the Casino to NYC and vice versa. 

Only the BxM3 crosses the county line though... There would have to be substantial ridership for the BxM4 to do that and I'm not sure that they're is.  I think the BxM4 really took a beating when it lost those super express variants.  Even I have a problem riding using the BxM4 from Katonah and 242nd.  The only folks that use it are those that don't want to do the transfers in Woodlawn, or get off along the Upper East Side, which is usually where I get of as well if I'm coming from Westchester/Woodlawn.  Coming from that far north, even getting off on the Upper East Side and with a minimal amount of stops along the Concourse, it seems as it takes forever at times.  It isn't necessarily the amount of stops either.  The Concourse is just f*cking long.

 

However, I use it because it's more comfortable than Metro-North and more convenient.  On Metro-North, you may not get a seat, which always irritates me and I prefer the express buses where I can stretch and relax even if it takes slightly longer.  With the transfer to the BxM2, it makes up for anytime on the BxM4 since I would have to sclepp from Metro-North to the express bus.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

 

Okay. I also have another proposal containing the BxM4 and affilates (pretty common one)

 

I do agree with the sorts of discussion with extending the BxM4 to Yonkers Raceway.

 

Option 1

I would extend the BxM4 to Yonkers Raceway on both weekdays and weekends. The BxM4 to Manhattan from Yonkers would start running starting at 1:30 PM, until 10:30 PM. To Yonkers, on Weekdays, the BxM4 would start running from 7:45 AM to 10:45 AM, then every 2 hours until 2:45 PM to Yonkers, and then starting again at 9:15 PM, until 12 AM.

 

There would be 12 extra minutes allotted in this extension. 

 

On Weekends, I would extend the BxM4 all times (Saturdays from 6:48 AM to 9:48 AM to Manhattan; 8:48 to 8:48 PM), however, with a change in schedule to Yonkers on Saturdays, and Sundays. 

 

On the weekend, all the BxM4's would leave Manhattan at :25 (arriving Yonkers at :32 the following hour, and go back out at :48, giving it a 16 minute layover period). In conjunction with this, all the BxM3's would leave Manhattan at :55, and departing Yonkers at :30.

 

In addition, I would make the BxM3/4/4C stop together.

 

 

There would be modifications of several stops.

 

The BxM3/4 would stop with the BxM4C at 26 Street, and then would make the following pick ups as follows:

 

39 Street (consolidate the two stop on the same block)

47 Street (move the BxM3/4 stop up one block)

53 Street (move the BxM4C stop one block down)

62 Street (move the BxM4C stop one block down)

69 Street (move the BxM3/4 stop one block down)

80 Street (add a BxM4C stop there)

84 Street (consolidate both stops)

99 Street ( consolidate both stops)

123 Street (add the BxM4C to the stop rotation)

 

BTW, I don't think the BxM4 needs to do that loop in the South Bronx, to go out on the Triboro, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) 5th/ Madison north of 99 Street to the Madison Avenue Bridge, then the Major Deegan would be similar in runtime, however have a possibility for more riders. 

 

Drop Offs:

125 Street (Add the BxM4C)

97 Street (Move the BxM3/4 stop one block up, BxM4C down one)

85 Street (consolidate both stops)

79 Street (Add the BxM4C)

69 Street (Consolidate both Stops)

59 Street (Move the BxM3/4 stop 2 blocks down)

51 Street ( Move BxM3/4 Stops 4 blocks down)

42 Street ( Move the 4c one down, the 3/4 two blocks up)

34 Street (move the 4c two down, and the 3/4 one up)

26 Street 

 

The BxM4C stop at 23 Street would be eliminated.

 

The BxM4 would stop on McLean Avenue/ CP Avenue and Yonkers/ CP.

 

Option 2

 

The BxM4 extension would be full time, all day, every day. In conjunction with this, the BxM4C super express and short turns would be consolidated. The last pickup/ first drop off would be Mile Square Road and Central Park Avenue.

I'm not gonna waste time commenting/harping too much on intervals & bus stop locations what not.... But yeah, as I've stated in past threads, I agree with sending the BxM4 to Yonkers Raceway - for one reason being that I believe Westchester patrons would use the raceway parking lot as a park & ride, en route to using the route into Manhattan.....

 

Just for shits & giggles, I'll go as far as to say the current BxM4 usage at the first stop (where the Bx31/34 terminate & loop around) alone garners more Westchester patrons than the entire BxM3 w/i Westchester..... Anyway, the riders that aren't taking BxMC4's up there along Central Park av, are the ones that are cramming on BL-20's & taking that train ride southward.... I'm willing to bet an extended BxM4 can take some of those pax. off the BL-20's hands....... As for the BxMc4 usage, forget it - they're gonna continue paying that fare to board that bus.... Furthermore, I wouldn't involve the BxMc4 in ANYTHING involving a BxM4 extension (as you're suggesting in option 2).....

 

Okay. Another question.

 

Would it be feasible to extend the Bx6 to Broadway during the late night hours. They currently terminate at Amsterdam (which is what confused me at first, because I thought that it would've met the one by then).

TBH, I didn't know the late night trips ended at Amsterdam..... But it does make sense.....

 

I know there's a sizable amt. of Manhattan bound riders that disembark at Amsterdam throughout the day, but my guess as to why they don't send/end buses on Broadway isn't due to how infeasible the turnaround would be... It's likely due to the fact that riders around that time aren't seeking Bx6's.....

 

In other words, I don't think it's an issue of feasibility......

[qjtransitmaster]

Different bus stop signs? The timetables at both stops for the BxM3 and BxM4 are already combined.  I see no need to combine the physical bus stop signage, as both buses serve completely different areas... Now the BxM1 and BxM2 share signage like that, but that's only at stops where isn't enough room since there's the BxM18, Bx10, Bx20 and Hudson Rail Link at those stops too.  In those occasions, the stops just say Midtown, which I don't care for in terms of marketability since both express buses serve different areas of Midtown.  Someone going to say 9th Avenue on the West Side would be more suited taking the BxM2 rather than schlepping from the BxM1, which serves East Midtown.

 

The question that I have is why would those people in Yonkers give up Metro-North? Metro-North to those parts of Westchester can be reached in about 28 minutes.  You would have to have a super express variant of the BxM4 to really attract more people.  Maybe you could get some BxM4C riders but that's a big maybe.

 

On another note though, the BxM11 can be dead during the cold months going to Manhattan, as the Zoo crowd is almost non-existent, so this must be taken into consideration with the BxM4 as well.  Usage on the BxM11 mainly come from Pelham Parkway, and at times you get folks north of that and I assume from the Westchester border too to some extent, which is odd because there is Metro-North in those areas.  It could be it's location perhaps.

He is desperate to save that dead horse lol. He just won't stop beating it so sad. Some lines just need to be let go.

I'm not gonna waste time commenting/harping too much on intervals & bus stop locations what not.... But yeah, as I've stated in past threads, I agree with sending the BxM4 to Yonkers Raceway - for one reason being that I believe Westchester patrons would use the raceway parking lot as a park & ride, en route to using the route into Manhattan.....

 

Just for shits & giggles, I'll go as far as to say the current BxM4 usage at the first stop (where the Bx31/34 terminate & loop around) alone garners more Westchester patrons than the entire BxM3 w/i Westchester..... Anyway, the riders that aren't taking BxMC4's up there along Central Park av, are the ones that are cramming on BL-20's & taking that train ride southward.... I'm willing to bet an extended BxM4 can take some of those pax. off the BL-20's hands....... As for the BxMc4 usage, forget it - they're gonna continue paying that fare to board that bus.... Furthermore, I wouldn't involve the BxMc4 in ANYTHING involving a BxM4 extension (as you're suggesting in option 2).....

 

TBH, I didn't know the late night trips ended at Amsterdam..... But it does make sense.....

 

I know there's a sizable amt. of Manhattan bound riders that disembark at Amsterdam throughout the day, but my guess as to why they don't send/end buses on Broadway isn't due to how infeasible the turnaround would be... It's likely due to the fact that riders around that time aren't seeking Bx6's.....

 

In other words, I don't think it's an issue of feasibility......

You do realize MNRR stations have parking right? This is like a sick joke that won't die. What is exactly stopping the MTA from implementing a at rush?

Edited July 25, 2014 by qjtransitmaster

[Fresh Pond]

You do realize MNRR stations have parking right? This is like a sick joke that won't die. What is exactly stopping the MTA from implementing a at rush?

The fact that all of the important stations are skipped and they benefited few (if any)...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

He is desperate to save that dead horse lol. He just won't stop beating it so sad. Some lines just need to be let go.

 

You do realize MNRR stations have parking right? This is like a sick joke that won't die. What is exactly stopping the MTA from implementing a at rush?

I don't think it's a terrible idea because the truth is that people would use the line.  I have two kids that I tutor not too far from there and the parents drive me to and from the BxM4 express bus.  It's a very quick 5 minute ride tops in the car.  The husband works in the city and commented about how he didn't know about the bus and may consider using it himself, as he currently takes the Bee Line bus to the and would prefer a more relaxing commute.  I just wonder how many people would use it because the key in my mind would be having the super express variant come back that would just serve Southeast Yonkers and Woodlawn.  There would have to be enough ridership for that.

[B35 via Church]

You do realize MNRR stations have parking right? This is like a sick joke that won't die......

And?

 

Ayo, Look, it's already been established that you don't care for attempting to induce ridership on express buses, so I'm not gonna waste too much energy with you regarding this - Other than to say, this same song & dance out of you bringing up the railroad yet & again in a thread talking about express buses is a "sick joke" you choose to infect yourself with....

 

In short.... Don't bother me with your responses you have on autopilot, when it comes to express buses.....

 

.....What is exactly stopping the MTA from implementing a at rush?

Has nothin to do with the tea in china....

 

But to answer your question..... You would have to either increase TPH (which would be hell, once you hit 149th, where even more 4's would have to merge w/ the - which would f*** up the Lex express), or decrease local service during the rush - to account for having any of the trains that currently run local, run express service (and piss off FAR too many folks that board at those (would be) local stations in the Bronx)....

 

It's not like the for example, where a peak express doesn't have to merge w/ any other line, heading to/from manhattan.....

 

So, NONE of that is worth it, just to make things feasible for Westchester riders boarding the @ Woodlawn or Bedford Park Blvd..... smh.....

 

 

I don't think it's a terrible idea because the truth is that people would use the line.  I have two kids that I tutor not too far from there and the parents drive me to and from the BxM4 express bus.  It's a very quick 5 minute ride tops in the car.  The husband works in the city and commented about how he didn't know about the bus and may consider using it himself, as he currently takes the Bee Line bus to the and would prefer a more relaxing commute.  I just wonder how many people would use it because the key in my mind would be having the super express variant come back that would just serve Southeast Yonkers and Woodlawn.  There would have to be enough ridership for that.

Well wait a second....

 

As I'm reading your replies to BM5 Woodhaven, your stance on extending the BxM4 to the Raceway is rather conflicting....

Is it "nonsense", or is it not a terrible idea (as you say in this latest post of yours here)?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well wait a second....

 

As I'm reading your replies to BM5 Woodhaven, your stance on extending the BxM4 to the Raceway is rather conflicting....

Is it "nonsense", or is it not a terrible idea (as you say in this latest post of yours here)?

Well it's nonsense in that we're extending a city bus into Westchester to get more ridership.  It may not be a terrible idea however if enough ridership can come out of it, but quite frankly I still believe that city services should serve the city.

[Q43 Floral Park]

The fact that all of the important stations are skipped and they benefited few (if any)...

 

It seemed like it was setup to fail running express from Bedford Park, when the   could have easily made all stops to/from Burnside and then run express

[Q43LTD]

It seemed like it was setup to fail running express from Bedford Park, when the could have easily made all stops to/from Burnside and then run express

Still wouldn't have made sense to implement a ...anyway I'm kind of om the fence about a BxM4 extension to Yonkers Raceway. Wouldn't be cheaper to run overnight BL-20 service?

[qjtransitmaster]

And?

 

Ayo, Look, it's already been established that you don't care for attempting to induce ridership on express buses, so I'm not gonna waste too much energy with you regarding this - Other than to say, this same song & dance out of you bringing up the railroad yet & again in a thread talking about express buses is a "sick joke" you choose to infect yourself with....

 

In short.... Don't bother me with your responses you have on autopilot, when it comes to express buses.....

 

Has nothin to do with the tea in china....

 

But to answer your question..... You would have to either increase TPH (which would be hell, once you hit 149th, where even more 4's would have to merge w/ the - which would f*** up the Lex express), or decrease local service during the rush - to account for having any of the trains that currently run local, run express service (and piss off FAR too many folks that board at those (would be) local stations in the Bronx)....

 

It's not like the for example, where a peak express doesn't have to merge w/ any other line, heading to/from manhattan.....

 

So, NONE of that is worth it, just to make things feasible for Westchester riders boarding the @ Woodlawn or Bedford Park Blvd..... smh.....

 

 

Well wait a second....

 

As I'm reading your replies to BM5 Woodhaven, your stance on extending the BxM4 to the Raceway is rather conflicting....

Is it "nonsense", or is it not a terrible idea (as you say in this latest post of yours here)?

Express buses in general no bxm4 yes unlike many lines with higher ridership it's surrounded by alternatives more than any other BXM line. A few QM lines fit the bill in having so many alternatives or alternatives that are vastly superior meaning nothing can be done for em. Bxm4 is such a line and how can a superexpress take any off MNRR when battling I-87 traffic?

Still wouldn't have made sense to implement a ...anyway I'm kind of om the fence about a BxM4 extension to Yonkers Raceway. Wouldn't be cheaper to run overnight BL-20 service?

Overnight BL-20 service would benefit way more riders than beating the dead horse that is bxm4 which is so dead there are queens peak only express buses with more ridership than all Bxm4 trips put together.

[Q43LTD]

Express buses in general no bxm4 yes unlike many lines with higher ridership it's surrounded by alternatives more than any other BXM line. A few QM lines fit the bill in having so many alternatives or alternatives that are vastly superior meaning nothing can be done for em. Bxm4 is such a line and how can a superexpress take any off MNRR when battling I-87 traffic?

 

Overnight BL-20 service would benefit way more riders than beating the dead horse that is bxm4 which is so dead there are queens peak only express buses with more ridership than all Bxm4 trips put together.

Huh? Says the guy who mentioned "sick joke"....

[B35 via Church]

Well it's nonsense in that we're extending a city bus into Westchester to get more ridership.  It may not be a terrible idea however if enough ridership can come out of it, but quite frankly I still believe that city services should serve the city.

It wouldn't be nonsense if enough ridership would come out of it though.....

 

Or would it? Would it be nonsense if the BxM4 gained ridership..... Let's face it, the route could use it.

 

See, believing that the ridership would/wouldn't come is one thing....

Claiming nonsensicality because it involves going into Westchester to me, is quite another..... City buses should serve the city, but if city residents themselves don't utilize a particular service enough, then what do you do?

 

I don't have to point out what the MTA would do (with which Mr. MNRR, Mr. I-87 traffic, Mr. BL-20 overnights is more beneficial than the BxM4 (smh) on here would concur with, btw).....

 

...anyway I'm kind of om the fence about a BxM4 extension to Yonkers Raceway. Wouldn't be cheaper to run overnight BL-20 service?

That's fine, but What does overnight service have to do w/ extending the BxM4 (when it currently runs)?

 

Express buses in general no bxm4 yes unlike many lines with higher ridership it's surrounded by alternatives more than any other BXM line. A few QM lines fit the bill in having so many alternatives or alternatives that are vastly superior meaning nothing can be done for em. Bxm4 is such a line and how can a superexpress take any off MNRR when battling I-87 traffic?

Sure it's express buses in general - Case in point, the bringing up of it "battling" personal vehicle travel.....

 

Overnight BL-20 service would benefit way more riders than beating the dead horse that is bxm4 which is so dead there are queens peak only express buses with more ridership than all Bxm4 trips put together.

You just exposed yourself with this reply - Talking about running BL-20's overnight being way more beneficial than the BxM4 (like, no shit).... There's no comparison, since there are no Bxm4 trips that leave out of either terminal during overnight hours..... You couldn't wait to co-sign something that didn't involve the BxM4.... You don't care for bringing more ridership to express buses, so cut it already...

 

Huh? Says the guy who mentioned "sick joke"....

A little something called foot-in-mouth disease....

Edited July 26, 2014 by B35 via Church

[Q43 Floral Park]

Still wouldn't have made sense to implement a ...anyway I'm kind of om the fence about a BxM4 extension to Yonkers Raceway. Wouldn't be cheaper to run overnight BL-20 service?

 

Excluding the transfer stations, the line North of Burnside has more ridership so why wouldn't express service be beneficial if implemented correctly?  Expresses from Woodlawn, locals from Burnside with a few through locals. 

 

What does running the BL-20 overnight have to do with the BxM4 extension?

[Q43LTD]

Perhaps I asked the wrong question. Maybe I should ask wouldn't it be cheaper to have some BL-20's terminate there or it would screw up the Cross County short trips?