R211 Discussion Thread

[jukeboxboy]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CkgRddduMAi/

Here are photos of the R211T's as of November 2, 2022. They were then transferred to Coney Island where open-gangway connections were installed, and now Pitkin Yard.

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

***NOT MY VIDEO*** 

[Bill from Maspeth]

Nice video.  IDK where you got it from but someone inside NYCT might be pissed.  Notice at the 2:55 mark how flimsy (third rail) current collectors are.  No wonder why once in while they catch on an obstruction and fall off resulting in a dead train. 

[texassubwayfan555]

Guaranteed that operators will get fired based on footage from cab cameras.

[rbrome]

I am unreasonably relieved that the poles and grab-bars will not be "Coumo Yellow" as in the mock-ups. It added so much visual clutter, looked less classy, less clean, and did not seem like it would age well. Stainless steel is the way to go, and I'm glad the MTA agreed with my comment during the mock-up feedback process. 

[Humidifier]

7 minutes ago, rbrome said:

I am unreasonably relieved that the poles and grab-bars will not be "Coumo Yellow" as in the mock-ups. It added so much visual clutter, looked less classy, less clean, and did not seem like it would age well. Stainless steel is the way to go, and I'm glad the MTA agreed with my comment during the mock-up feedback process. 

Were they a Cuomo thing? I just assumed it was so you didn't run into them.

[RandomRider0101]

7 hours ago, Humidifier said:

Were they a Cuomo thing? I just assumed it was so you didn't run into them.

Well technically it was both. The poles were made yellow so it would be easier for the visually impaired to see them; and this was started under Andrew Cuomo.

From what I learned, the yellow poles were harder to maintain due to the paint chipping. As someone said before, painting the trains cost money; this applies to the inside of the train as well. For these reasons, MTA has decided to stick with the traditional stainless steel poles; it is more cost-effective.

Me personally, I thought it was nice to see some more color and something a little different. Not a big fan of the exterior wraps though; in my opinion, that should be the next thing that's changed. I think everything else is fine though.

[rbrome]

On 11/28/2022 at 7:46 AM, RandomRider0101 said:

Well technically it was both. The poles were made yellow so it would be easier for the visually impaired to see them; and this was started under Andrew Cuomo.

From what I learned, the yellow poles were harder to maintain due to the paint chipping. As someone said before, painting the trains cost money; this applies to the inside of the train as well. For these reasons, MTA has decided to stick with the traditional stainless steel poles; it is more cost-effective.

Me personally, I thought it was nice to see some more color and something a little different. Not a big fan of the exterior wraps though; in my opinion, that should be the next thing that's changed. I think everything else is fine though.

My understanding was that Cuomo wanted more "state branding" in the form of more blue and yellow. I found most of the results to be tacky. 

But I have also heard the accessibility angle for the poles. Which makes it interesting that they dropped it; those types of things usually become permanent policy. I guess this one is optional. 

In terms of maintainability, though, yes, the advantages of bare stainless are obvious. And of course the MTA should be very focused on that. 

[RandomRider0101]

6 hours ago, rbrome said:

My understanding was that Cuomo wanted more "state branding" in the form of more blue and yellow. I found most of the results to be tacky. 

But I have also heard the accessibility angle for the poles. Which makes it interesting that they dropped it; those types of things usually become permanent policy. I guess this one is optional. 

In terms of maintainability, though, yes, the advantages of bare stainless are obvious. And of course the MTA should be very focused on that. 

That's true about the state branding; and that was the main reason why Cuomo started doing it in the first place.

I agree with the tacky part; the exterior wraps on the trains are unnecessary to me.

The blue and gold design looks good on the buses because it was done correctly. If they're going to apply the state colors to the trains' exteriors, they need to come up with a better design; otherwise, just leave them alone.

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, RandomRider0101 said:

That's true about the state branding; and that was the main reason why Cuomo started doing it in the first place.

I agree with the tacky part; the exterior wraps on the trains are unnecessary to me.

The blue and gold design looks good on the buses because it was done correctly. If they're going to apply the state colors to the trains' exteriors, they need to come up with a better design; otherwise, just leave them alone.

I think the LIRR M9s came out well despite the Cuomo stripe. The R160s, sorry it was a no-go

[RandomRider0101]

17 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

I think the LIRR M9s came out well despite the Cuomo stripe. The R160s, sorry it was a no-go

I'm with you on that. To be fair, the R160s were the first train to test the design. They did improve it on the M9s and R211s; however, I still don't love it. I like the interior better, but that's just me.

[Around the Horn]

The R211Ts are now out and about on the system doing clearance tests

 

[subwaycommuter1983]

This came out today:

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2022/12/15/states-senator-gianaris-on-new-legislation-aiming-to-improve-mta-while-balancing-budget

I hope this bill gets passed. This bill needs to also include auditing the MTA to ensure that they are managing their budget efficiently.

There is no doubt that one of the biggest issues with the MTA is that they don't know how to manage the budget. They got billions of dollars from the Federal government and yet service is getting worse. They got the nerve to find lame excuses (like "ridership is low", which is not true) to raise fares and cut service.

Also, they are taking their sweet time to buy new subway cars. The r262's and whatever is replacing the r68's should have been included in this current Capital program.

Notice how service on trains that use r46's have gotten worse. The r46's are breaking down like flies. If delays on the r211 persists, we are going to face a subway car shortage that will cripple the system.

[rbrome]

2 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

They got the nerve to find lame excuses (like "ridership is low", which is not true) to raise fares and cut service.

Huh? We're only at about 2/3 the ridership compared to pre-pandemic. Ridership is low. And obviously that affects revenue. 

https://new.mta.info/coronavirus/ridership

[subwaycommuter1983]

13 minutes ago, rbrome said:

Huh? We're only at about 2/3 the ridership compared to pre-pandemic. Ridership is low. And obviously that affects revenue. 

https://new.mta.info/coronavirus/ridership

I don't believe this data. I ride the trains and buses everyday. They are overcrowded during rush hours and on Saturdays.

[Kamen Rider]

Do you ride EVERY train and EVERY bus?

 

just because some are running at pre/pandemic crowds doesn’t mean they all are. 
 

that’s like saying “oh, it’s snowing out, climate change isn’t a thing.”

[trainfan22]

3 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

This came out today:

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2022/12/15/states-senator-gianaris-on-new-legislation-aiming-to-improve-mta-while-balancing-budget

I hope this bill gets passed. This bill needs to also include auditing the MTA to ensure that they are managing their budget efficiently.

There is no doubt that one of the biggest issues with the MTA is that they don't know how to manage the budget. They got billions of dollars from the Federal government and yet service is getting worse. They got the nerve to find lame excuses (like "ridership is low", which is not true) to raise fares and cut service.

Also, they are taking their sweet time to buy new subway cars. The r262's and whatever is replacing the r68's should have been included in this current Capital program.

Notice how service on trains that use r46's have gotten worse. The r46's are breaking down like flies. If delays on the r211 persists, we are going to face a subway car shortage that will cripple the system.

Where in the link do you see the quality of service line by line? I'm curious to see the as by many that's considered one of the best lines in the system, even prior to R160s taking over the line. 

[JustTheSIR]

3 hours ago, rbrome said:

Huh? We're only at about 2/3 the ridership compared to pre-pandemic. Ridership is low. And obviously that affects revenue. 

https://new.mta.info/coronavirus/ridership

Well you have to remember that farebeaters exist…

[RandomRider0101]

52 minutes ago, JustTheSIR said:

Well you have to remember that farebeaters exist…

I wonder if the farebeaters are counted as part of the data numbers, or if they're counted separately.

[Trainmaster5]

2 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

I wonder if the farebeaters are counted as part of the data numbers, or if they're counted separately.

How do you count those farebeaters? Most ridership information comes from the metrocard users on the subways IIRC. Just asking. Carry on.

[RandomRider0101]

3 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

How do you count those farebeaters? Most ridership information comes from the metrocard users on the subways IIRC. Just asking. Carry on.

Makes sense. That explains why the perceptions on ridership are as different as they are.

[rbrome]

On the busses, they have technology now that actually counts people instead of just fares. Fare evasion is around 30% on busses right now. I assume ridership numbers include fare-beaters, but I'm not certain. 

For the subways, the MTA teamed up with Columbia University to devise an accurate way to determine the evasion rate. Their methodology seems solid to me. They recently determined that around 15% of people don't pay the subway fare. I'm less sure if ridership numbers try to estimate fare-beaters here, although even if you add that 15%, ridership is still well below pre-pandemic levels, which makes sense given how empty most offices are still. 

Source: this Twitter thread (the methodology is described in the next tweet): 

 

[RandomRider0101]

6 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

This came out today:

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2022/12/15/states-senator-gianaris-on-new-legislation-aiming-to-improve-mta-while-balancing-budget

I hope this bill gets passed. This bill needs to also include auditing the MTA to ensure that they are managing their budget efficiently.

There is no doubt that one of the biggest issues with the MTA is that they don't know how to manage the budget. They got billions of dollars from the Federal government and yet service is getting worse. They got the nerve to find lame excuses (like "ridership is low", which is not true) to raise fares and cut service.

Also, they are taking their sweet time to buy new subway cars. The r262's and whatever is replacing the r68's should have been included in this current Capital program.

Notice how service on trains that use r46's have gotten worse. The r46's are breaking down like flies. If delays on the r211 persists, we are going to face a subway car shortage that will cripple the system.

 

4 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I don't believe this data. I ride the trains and buses everyday. They are overcrowded during rush hours and on Saturdays.

Ridership is decent, but it's still not at pre-pandemic levels; and the R211s should be here by Q1 2023, so I don't think we'll have to worry about a shortage although some say we still have a current shortage anyway, but whatever🤷.

Keep in mind that trips on every line have been eliminated due to the lower ridership AND the loss of crew members. This makes it seem like the ridership is back to normal, when it's partially due to the fact that less trains are running overall.

Even then, not every train or bus is packed like sardines at all times. In my experience, I'm able to get a seat at the back of a Lex Express during the PM Rush 99% of the time.

It would have seemed simple if the R68/A replacement were included with the R262s, but a big issue there is money. We're talking about an agency that's already poor at money management; so tasking them with ordering that many subway cars at one time in this day & age is a long shot, to put it one way. Whatever happens, the R68/A replacements will arrive eventually.

[subwaycommuter1983]

3 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

 

Ridership is decent, but it's still not at pre-pandemic levels; and the R211s should be here by Q1 2023, so I don't think we'll have to worry about a shortage although some say we still have a current shortage anyway, but whatever🤷.

Keep in mind that trips on every line have been eliminated due to the lower ridership AND the loss of crew members. This makes it seem like the ridership is back to normal, when it's partially due to the fact that less trains are running overall.

Even then, not every train or bus is packed like sardines at all times. In my experience, I'm able to get a seat at the back of a Lex Express during the PM Rush 99% of the time.

It would have seemed simple if the R68/A replacement were included with the R262s, but a big issue there is money. We're talking about an agency that's already poor at money management; so tasking them with ordering that many subway cars at one time in this day & age is a long shot, to put it one way. Whatever happens, the R68/A replacements will arrive eventually.

This is why the state needs to audit the MTA.  I know people who either worked for the MTA or are still working with the MTA and they tell me that the top people of the MTA are not managing the budget correctly.

 

[subwaycommuter1983]

6 hours ago, JustTheSIR said:

Well you have to remember that farebeaters exist…

This is why this bill needs to be approved, so that people can ride the bus for free. 

There are some farebeaters that are crooks. However, there are so many people right now that are underemployed or living paycheck to paycheck struggling to make ends meet because things are too expensive and are farebeating because they can't afford to pay $127 a month.