R211 Discussion Thread

[Bill from Maspeth]

16 hours ago, zacster said:

Got a ride on it today and can't say it felt like a huge upgrade over the R160 or R179.  Lots of new doodads but the ride felt the same, and the announcements are the same.   Seats are smaller, doors are wider, more info displays.  The rest of my party were all expecting open gangways, as that is what is being said about them.

It was pure luck that I rode it too.  My daughter ran the NYC Half Marathon today and we met at Columbus Circle after the run.  We were taking the A to W4th for lunch and lo and behold it pulled into the station.  It was packed.  It crept to 34th and then was still slow the rest of the way.  All the trains were slow today.  I took 6 different trains on 3 lines to follow the run and cheer her on.

I also rode it on Sunday.  Having no idea where it was, around 11:30 AM I was at W.4th southbound.  Unfortunately due to the weekend GO, it was not possible for me to wait at Chambers, Fulton or High Streets.  As luck would have it, it arrived northbound after around a wait of about 1 hour.  So I chased it to 175th St.  After what seemed to be a long wait, it was the next train in...and crowded.  I was able to snatch a handicapped seat and rode to Far Rock.  Naturally it took quite a long time for me to get a good look at the car because of the crowds.  The train ran well, my impression of the train is an R179 on steroids. 

I liked the strip map above every doorway.  I liked the fact that the motors were much quieter than the R179.  I liked the green and red warning lights when the doors were open and closing.  Of course, the price for having wider doors was a very small picture window, which would be cheaper to change when it gets busted by vandals.  As noted just 30 seats in the cars, 6 of which are "reserved" for the handicapped.  The standee poles straddling the blue seats allowed for 2 people on one side and 3 on the other.  But the way the seated men like to spread their legs, the reality is 2 spotter gets taken up by one person and the 3 spotter gets taken up by 2 (more prevalent) so to find a seat in these cars is a crapshoot.  But I always say that you are paying for a ride on the subway, not a seat.  You pay for a seat on commuter rail/Amtrak.  A few well behaved railfans were on board, no foamers (Thanks be to God!).  It was obvious the A line (where I was in my positioning time wise) was running on an extended headway "thanks" to the heavy riding for most of the southbound trip.  When we got to Far Rock as there was an R46 across the platform with all doors closed (which I saw at 34th St. following a bathroom break as I was waiting for an E to get back home) with a 20 minute wait for our R211 to leave the station.  When we got to Howard Beach, a mass of humanity along with their baggage boarded the train.  The train stayed crowded all thru Brooklyn.  It was a good trip.  As mentioned above, I de-trained at 34th St.  I would like to ride it again before the 30 day test is completed some weekday if I have the chance so I can check out the speed on the express tracks between 5-9 and 1-2-5.  The GO's and all the flagging really slows down everything on the weekends.  I feel for my weekend warrior train crews.  It makes the trips very tedious and tiring for them.

[zacster]

10 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

I also rode it on Sunday.  Having no idea where it was, around 11:30 AM I was at W.4th southbound.  Unfortunately due to the weekend GO, it was not possible for me to wait at Chambers, Fulton or High Streets.  As luck would have it, it arrived northbound after around a wait of about 1 hour.  So I chased it to 175th St.  After what seemed to be a long wait, it was the next train in...and crowded.  I was able to snatch a handicapped seat and rode to Far Rock.  Naturally it took quite a long time for me to get a good look at the car because of the crowds.  The train ran well, my impression of the train is an R179 on steroids. 

I liked the strip map above every doorway.  I liked the fact that the motors were much quieter than the R179.  I liked the green and red warning lights when the doors were open and closing.  Of course, the price for having wider doors was a very small picture window, which would be cheaper to change when it gets busted by vandals.  As noted just 30 seats in the cars, 6 of which are "reserved" for the handicapped.  The standee poles straddling the blue seats allowed for 2 people on one side and 3 on the other.  But the way the seated men like to spread their legs, the reality is 2 spotter gets taken up by one person and the 3 spotter gets taken up by 2 (more prevalent) so to find a seat in these cars is a crapshoot.  But I always say that you are paying for a ride on the subway, not a seat.  You pay for a seat on commuter rail/Amtrak.  A few well behaved railfans were on board, no foamers (Thanks be to God!).  It was obvious the A line (where I was in my positioning time wise) was running on an extended headway "thanks" to the heavy riding for most of the southbound trip.  When we got to Far Rock as there was an R46 across the platform with all doors closed (which I saw at 34th St. following a bathroom break as I was waiting for an E to get back home) with a 20 minute wait for our R211 to leave the station.  When we got to Howard Beach, a mass of humanity along with their baggage boarded the train.  The train stayed crowded all thru Brooklyn.  It was a good trip.  As mentioned above, I de-trained at 34th St.  I would like to ride it again before the 30 day test is completed some weekday if I have the chance so I can check out the speed on the express tracks between 5-9 and 1-2-5.  The GO's and all the flagging really slows down everything on the weekends.  I feel for my weekend warrior train crews.  It makes the trips very tedious and tiring for them.

You were probably on the same run that I was then.  I boarded at 59th at around 1:15, or somewhere around that.  It was hard to get a sense of much because of how crowded it was for a Sunday. 

[Fan Railer]

1 hour ago, NBTA said:

Show the Saturday and Sunday schedule if you can.

 

42 minutes ago, Fan Railer said:

If the guy who shared this had posted the rest of the memo, I would have passed it on here; unfortunately that was not the case. At any rate, with all the weekend G/Os running, the recommended weekend rotations are probably thrown out the window.

 

38 minutes ago, NBTA said:

Ah okay, makes sense.

Ok, ran through some reported train times, cross referenced with the public timetable and came up with potential rotation assignments for the weekend (there's only two more of them anyway).

Saturday

0626 Euclid > Lefferts 0637
0702 Lefferts > 207 0822
0829 207 > Far Rock 1007
1031 Far Rock > 207 1212
1219 207 > Lefferts 1336
1402 Lefferts > 207 1522
1529 207 > Far Rock 1707
1731 Far Rock > 207 1912
1919 207 > Lefferts 2036
Dropout

Sunday
0726 Euclid > Lefferts 0737
0755 Lefferts > 207 0912
0917 207 > Far Rock 1054
1104 Far Rock > 207 1241
1249 207 > Far Rock 1426
1444 Far Rock > 207 1621
1629 207 > Far Rock 1706
Dropout

Again, with all the weekend service changes, this is probably moot anyway.

[Kamen Rider]

1 hour ago, NBTA said:

Ah okay, makes sense.

on top of that, the memo should list all personal who are qualified on the train. IE, my name and pass number should be there. That person wisely avoided doxing a fair chunk of the B division,

[Lawrence St]

Are the R211’s going to be assembled in Yonkers like the R142A’s/R188’s or only Lincoln?

[brakethrow]

On 3/19/2023 at 6:12 PM, Kamen Rider said:

As I’ve been saying, a lot of the changes are “under the hood”/ “backstage/back of house”-ish stuff the riding public doesn’t get to see or interact with.

 

22 hours ago, engineerboy6561 said:

That makes a lot of sense; if you wouldn't mind I'd love a summary of what's different from your perspective, and whether you (or any of the other RTO folks on here) would consider this "another NTT" or the start of a third generation of train (after the SMEEs and Gen 1 NTTs).

I second this. I too am curious to know the major differences. 

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

23 hours ago, engineerboy6561 said:

Seconding this; we're still having issues with certain components where I work (power electronics manufacturer), so it's not surprising that something like a train car which is likely chock full of interesting electronics that require all sorts of specialized ICs got really delayed.

 

That makes a lot of sense; if you wouldn't mind I'd love a summary of what's different from your perspective, and whether you (or any of the other RTO folks on here) would consider this "another NTT" or the start of a third generation of train (after the SMEEs and Gen 1 NTTs).

I'm also curious as to if regular people see it as something new given a lot has visually changed on the outside but not a ton on the inside. I think there are enough differences a normal NYer who rides the subway would categorize it as something else; my experience seems to indicate people acknowledge it's different when it pulls into the station because they stare at it and I rmbr on the first ride people who were clearly just trying to get home from work were looking around quite a bit.

I think normal New Yorkers tend to group the B division into 2 categories right now; 

-The R46s and R68s which are seen as the "old cars with staggered Orange seats"

-The R143s, R160s, and R179s are seen as the newer cars with blue seats

R211s will prolly create a new category for normal folks.

[Q44 SBS]

I feel like the design of the NTT all look similar but with a few changes, whether it’s on the outside or inside. The way I look at the R211A, it looks like any of the previous B-Division’s NTT trains other than a few changes like the front with route bullet and destination, different propulsion, smaller windows, and wider doors to name a few. To go off topic for a bit, it kinda reminds of Taipei Metro‘s C301, C321, C341, C371, and C381 which all look similar with different propulsions but the C381 has a different front design, which doesn’t look flat.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Q44 SBS

[FLX9304]

12 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Are the R211’s going to be assembled in Yonkers like the R142A’s/R188’s or only Lincoln?

They follow the previous orders that was made. No changes 

[foggymetro28]

Uh, does the 30-day revenue service acceptance test clock reset? This is a bit early, but someone posted a video of the R211A moving while doors are currently open, on 3/20/23, but taken 3/17/23. I assume not because some trains do this due to incline tracks/brakes, or maybe i'm wrong. I don't know.

[Comrade96]

8 minutes ago, foggymetro said:

Uh, does the 30-day revenue service acceptance test clock reset? This is a bit early, but someone posted a video of the R211A moving while doors are currently open, on 3/20/23, but taken 3/17/23. I assume not because some trains do this due to incline tracks/brakes, or maybe i'm wrong. I don't know.

If theres a problem found during the 30 days it absolutely resets. What you described isnt supposed to happen at all, the proper brakes are supposed to be applied

[Comrade96]

whether or not it gets reset from that issue depends on what caused the roll while the doors were open

[Kamen Rider]

2 hours ago, foggymetro said:

Uh, does the 30-day revenue service acceptance test clock reset? This is a bit early, but someone posted a video of the R211A moving while doors are currently open, on 3/20/23, but taken 3/17/23. I assume not because some trains do this due to incline tracks/brakes, or maybe i'm wrong. I don't know.

Would have to see the video to actually know. Can't judge otherwise. 

[rbrome]

2 hours ago, foggymetro said:

Uh, does the 30-day revenue service acceptance test clock reset? This is a bit early, but someone posted a video of the R211A moving while doors are currently open, on 3/20/23, but taken 3/17/23. I assume not because some trains do this due to incline tracks/brakes, or maybe i'm wrong. I don't know.

If it was due to a technical glitch, yes. If it was operator error, I would guess not. Or if it was out of service, (I haven't seen the video,) I suppose it could have even been intentional. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by rbrome

[Kamen Rider]

To answer everyone about the differences, some include:

Cab layout:

The controls for the HVAC and car lights are mounted on the bulkhead wall next to the seat. the cab heater control is now touch screen based instead of a knob (on the NTTs) or an actual high voltage circuit breaker on the SMEEs.

The master controller is in the center of the operating consoles, like on the IRT, instead of off to the right by the window.

The console has three TOD screens now, which can be set up to the user's preferences. 

 

Specific to the 211Ts are crew operated ditch lights next to switches for HVAC and cabin lights.

 

general changes

The CCTV system

the abilty to unlock and open the end storm door while on ground level

One truck on one A car per set is non-motorized, with one axle on said truck completely free wheeling 

When we key open the doors, or put the train in "partial close" mode, it affects both door panels in the crew door (which is the term for the doors that can be controled seperately so we can open or close them as needed).

[RandomRider0101]

This is the video in question. Saw it a couple hours ago. The user didn't catch the full moment as they weren't anticipating that to happen (who would).

Video from : Techno 7843

[Lawrence St]

25 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

This is the video in question. Saw it a couple hours ago. The user didn't catch the full moment as they weren't anticipating that to happen (who would).

Video from : Techno 7843

Dyckman is on a hill, it happens from time to time with things rolling back a few inches.

[RandomRider0101]

5 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Dyckman is on a hill, it happens from time to time with things rolling back a few inches.

That explains it, and it makes perfect sense. I've been to that area before and I remember seeing the hills over there.

Mystery solved, no big story here. I'm assuming that user doesn't frequent that area often as they probably could've figured out the cause quicker.

[Kamen Rider]

yeah, that's not "moving with the doors open", that's it settling due to gravity. 

 

Made it sound like the train successfully took power and started accelerating. 

 

Now, for the record, all trains come with a "side door bypass" mode. this cuts out the indication system and allows us to move a train with a stuck open door out of the way. So you may see clips and videos and hear stories of people seeing trains with the doors all wide open and moving, but those are ALL going to be trains that are not in service. 

Were that to happen, In my case. as conductor, I would have to ride in the car with the stuck door to make sure no one tries to board should we be forced to come to a stop with said door abreast a platform, say if my partner has to punch for a lineup...

You would very much think this is one of those things where it would be common sense not to do that. A train with its lights off and just one door open pulls into the station with the door already open, should be a sign that ether the train isn't collecting passengers or that you're about to star in a horror video game...

 

But you just know someone did it anyway and that is the reason we have this policy. 

[FLX9304]

23 hours ago, foggymetro said:

Uh, does the 30-day revenue service acceptance test clock reset? This is a bit early, but someone posted a video of the R211A moving while doors are currently open, on 3/20/23, but taken 3/17/23. I assume not because some trains do this due to incline tracks/brakes, or maybe i'm wrong. I don't know.

Never jinx anything, not even yourself

[VIP]

Some users give way too much information about these trains and TA workers wonder why the train buffs or vandals know exactly what to mess with when they break into cabs… all the sensitive information and details about operations should be kept confidential. 

[FLX9304]

43 minutes ago, VIP said:

Some users give way too much information about these trains and TA workers wonder why the train buffs or vandals know exactly what to mess with when they break into cabs… all the sensitive information and details about operations should be kept confidential. 

You’re spot on right there. There are good buffs and there are fake buffs that do nothing but vandalize and damage equipment that is used for passenger service, especially any kind of software related activities that do damage the train’s information. My old company’s ID card (I don’t work for them anymore) was used to gain access to free rides on railroads or subways just recently by these fake buffs and if they found out that it was used, that person will be fired and charged with criminal conspiracy to commit fraudulent. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by FLX9304

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

On 3/21/2023 at 4:55 PM, Kamen Rider said:

 

One truck on one A car per set is non-motorized, with one axle on said truck completely free wheeling 

 

I'm not an expert and I trust that the engineers designing the car did this intentionally for a reason, but at face value this seems like a bad idea that would lead to more wear and tear on a lot of joints, and potentially make things less safe as well. Any idea why they choose to do it this way?

[trainfan22]

3 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

You’re spot on right there. There are good buffs and there are fake buffs that do nothing but vandalize and damage equipment that is used for passenger service, especially any kind of software related activities that do damage the train’s information. My old company’s ID card (I don’t work for them anymore) was used to gain access to free rides on railroads or subways just recently by these fake buffs and if they found out that it was used, that person will be fired and charged with criminal conspiracy to commit fraudulent. 

Software related activities that do damage to the train information? Huh?

 

 

Yes, some of these younger railfans can be a problem but IMO yall is starting to be ridiculous about their activities. 

[engineerboy6561]

3 hours ago, ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ said:

I'm not an expert and I trust that the engineers designing the car did this intentionally for a reason, but at face value this seems like a bad idea that would lead to more wear and tear on a lot of joints, and potentially make things less safe as well. Any idea why they choose to do it this way?

My guess is CBTC odometry; if a train has a known start point and it knows how may miles it's traveled from there it's easy for the train to build an internal map of where it is in the system. You can use revolution counters to keep track of train miles traveled, but only as long as there's no wheelslip, and the only way to guarantee no wheelslip is to let the axle freewheel.

Edited March 23, 2023 by engineerboy6561