R211 Discussion Thread

[Comrade96]

10 hours ago, AZthefoamer said:

Does it absolutely need to? We obviously need more than what we have, and possibly more than what the first option order can give us, but the first option order alone gives us 160 new cars for fleet expansions, that should be enough, no?

Not enough cars to do that entirely. I have seen people say they might partially do that but not only do we not have an idea of if Option Order 2 will happen, but the R68s still have some life in them, unlike the R46s.

no because those 160 cars will be filling the void left by the r32s when they retired

[AZthefoamer]

8 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if they cancelled the R211S order and diverted those cars to NYCT instead.

No way, the R44 needs replacement more than anything else in the fleet at this point. What else might they put on SIR? The R211S has different signaling, and the cars are already ordered.

Put the R211S on SIR and replacement will not be a concern for over 40 years.

[nightmare402]

5 minutes ago, AZthefoamer said:

No way, the R44 needs replacement more than anything else in the fleet at this point. What else might they put on SIR? The R211S has different signaling, and the cars are already ordered.

Put the R211S on SIR and replacement will not be a concern for over 40 years.

i agree they are falling apart and need replacement

 

[Ale188]

10 minutes ago, AZthefoamer said:

No way, the R44 needs replacement more than anything else in the fleet at this point. What else might they put on SIR? The R211S has different signaling, and the cars are already ordered.

Put the R211S on SIR and replacement will not be a concern for over 40 years.

Agreed. Only 59 out of the 64 are in service now because of derailments and parts breaking down. Soon, most of the SIR cars will be out of shape. That's why the first R211S cars are getting delivered later on this week, towards Friday and Saturday.

[Trainmaster5]

On 4/22/2023 at 11:33 AM, darkstar8983 said:

The one thing about Broadway getting SMEE trains is that now with the R68s and their rollsigns assigned to Broadway, either 2 Av or Astoria are going to end up with many mislabeled trains, especially with the plan to make the  more versatile during rush hours in terms of more 2 Av trips and the switching between the  at Ditmars Blvd. Unless Astorias ridership drops to a level that justifies eliminating the  and 2 Av ridership stays low enough to justify removing the 96!St  trips, you’re going to end up with rollsign issues. But if ridership does drop, then each branch can get assigned one route  for 96 St and  for Astoria. But again, you have to wait and see since the R211 order is projected to grow the subway fleet in the B division which may leave SOME tech trains for Broadway (not many, but some, which may help with rollsign issues)

You’re entitled to your own personal opinion but I don’t think that the rollsigns are an issue. I’m coming from an IRT perspective but at Flatbush Avenue on the  line we changed the north destination signs 5 days a week during the pm tour. From Dyre to 241st on every other train. The lower signs were changed to “thru express “ for a long time too until the riders realized that every  ran express during those hours. To eliminate the problem that you envision the crew office could/would assign people on restricted duty to do the sign changes at Astoria.” Cake baked “ as the old timers used to say. My solution. Carry on.

[AZthefoamer]

Rollsign errors are small potatoes compared to CBTC installation.

[Metro CSW]

4 hours ago, MJHmarc said:

The first order of R211A’s are for the A/C lines and the R211S for SIRT this is all part of one order. Option 1 will depended on the outcome of R211T test. 

Nope, Option 1 is said to be R211As as well, Option 2 will depend on the outcome of R211Ts. Try again.

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, AZthefoamer said:

Rollsign errors are small potatoes compared to CBTC installation.

Roll sign errors is nothing but another excuse from some NW train riders who refuse to accept the fact that the r68's will replace the r46's.

It is not the first time the NW has SMEEs. FYI! The NW had SMEEs before 2010. I'm pretty sure that the MTA will handle the roll signs the same way it was handled before 2010.

NW riders need to sit down and relax. I'm pretty sure that the NW may get a few r160's once the 2nd option order of r211's. So NW riders need to stop the whining and be grateful that the r46's will leave the NW within the next 2-3 years and be grateful that the NW may run more often once all r211's are in service.

[subwaycommuter1983]

4 hours ago, Ale188 said:

Agreed. Only 59 out of the 64 are in service now because of derailments and parts breaking down. Soon, most of the SIR cars will be out of shape. That's why the first R211S cars are getting delivered later on this week, towards Friday and Saturday.

It is very typical for the MTA to wait until subway cars are falling apart to replace them. If the MTA was really smart, they would have included the r262's and whatever car order that will replace the r68's in the current capital program.

Why?? Because a subway car is not a bus. Buses can be replaced quickly. It takes several years to design, build, deliver and test new subway cars.

I'm pretty sure that Broadway will eventually get CBTC once CBTC is installed in the IND sections of the subway and I doubt that the r68's will get CBTC equipped.

What's going to happen with the r68's if a huge chunk of the B division is CBTC and their replacement is not even built???

[Around the Horn]

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

It is very typical for the MTA to wait until subway cars are falling apart to replace them. If the MTA was really smart, they would have included the r262's and whatever car order that will replace the r68's in the current capital program.

The base order of the R262 is funded in this capital program

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

It is very typical for the MTA to wait until subway cars are falling apart to replace them. If the MTA was really smart, they would have included the r262's and whatever car order that will replace the r68's in the current capital program.

Why?? Because a subway car is not a bus. Buses can be replaced quickly. It takes several years to design, build, deliver and test new subway cars.

I'm pretty sure that Broadway will eventually get CBTC once CBTC is installed in the IND sections of the subway and I doubt that the r68's will get CBTC equipped.

What's going to happen with the r68's if a huge chunk of the B division is CBTC and their replacement is not even built???

1. The reason the MTA waits until subway cars are falling apart is because the trains cost 💲 💰 

2. if R68 replacements aren’t here in time then CBTC zones cannot expand beyond the IND. In theory (and assuming the full R211 order is here + no significant spare factor increases or changes to service patterns) you could have the full IND converted to CBTC since there would be enough NTT cars to cover every main-line B division route except the  (math done below)

R160 total (5-car) - 1290 cars

R179 total (5-car) - 130 cars

R211 total (5-car) - 1505 cars

 - 460 cars

- 310 cars

- 240 cars

 - 350 cars

 - 310 cars

 - 605 cars

 - 380 cars

 - 270 cars (necessary to be NTT in case of routine 6 Av reroutes).

[Ale188]

8 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

It is very typical for the MTA to wait until subway cars are falling apart to replace them. If the MTA was really smart, they would have included the r262's and whatever car order that will replace the r68's in the current capital program.

Why?? Because a subway car is not a bus. Buses can be replaced quickly. It takes several years to design, build, deliver and test new subway cars.

I'm pretty sure that Broadway will eventually get CBTC once CBTC is installed in the IND sections of the subway and I doubt that the r68's will get CBTC equipped.

What's going to happen with the r68's if a huge chunk of the B division is CBTC and their replacement is not even built???

Who knows, maybe most 68s will be sitting at CIY or something because of CBTC, but CBTC and the 68s can communicate somehow, hopefully.

[MJHmarc]

12 hours ago, Metro CSW said:

Nope, Option 1 is said to be R211As as well, Option 2 will depend on the outcome of R211Ts. Try again.

Oh really,WoW…. so it will be some time if the T’s are even a go or no. I have a feeling  that Jamaica will only want R211T’s if just a’s they will keep their 160’s. 

[darkstar8983]

2 minutes ago, MJHmarc said:

Oh really,WoW…. so it will be some time if the T’s are even a go or no. I have a feeling  that Jamaica will only want R211T’s if just a’s they will keep their 160’s. 

Not necessarily. Anything is still possible because the advantage of the R211As and their wider doors could still help with passenger flow

[Kamen Rider]

4 hours ago, MJHmarc said:

Oh really,WoW…. so it will be some time if the T’s are even a go or no. I have a feeling  that Jamaica will only want R211T’s if just a’s they will keep their 160’s. 

Car assignments are the decision of the Division of Car Equipment. We take what we’re handed and we’re expected to like it.

[Comrade96]

8 hours ago, Ale188 said:

Who knows, maybe most 68s will be sitting at CIY or something because of CBTC, but CBTC and the 68s can communicate somehow, hopefully.

Seriously? CBTC on a 68? in your dreams

[Ale188]

2 hours ago, Comrade96 said:

Seriously? CBTC on a 68? in your dreams

That's what they would have to get on the IND unfortunately, or maybe just pass them to Broadway, like smart MTA. the MTA would be dumb if they left some 68s on CBTC equipped parts of the B/D/F/M.

[Reptile]

34 minutes ago, Ale188 said:

That's what they would have to get on the IND unfortunately, or maybe just pass them to Broadway, like smart MTA. the MTA would be dumb if they left some 68s on CBTC equipped parts of the B/D/F/M.

For as many bad decisions as the MTA makes they will 100% fill the with R68s because the will all be getting CBTC which makes it impossible to put anything else.

[Fan Railer]

Sounds like a regular R211A delivery tonight, if anything at all, probably the first part of the 4090-4094 set. Will confirm when I have more info. Based on the gap between the last delivery, the SIRT R211 is probably delayed until mid-May.

[jon2305]

Cars 4088 & 4089 arrived and are currently at South Brooklyn Railway as of this evening. 

 

Also, 4070-4079 performed burn-in testing last night on the .

Cars 4110 thru 4114 are sitting outside Kawasaki's Lincoln plant awaiting delivery to the city.

Edited April 26, 2023 by jon2305

[Fan Railer]

oh they didn't even get to the 9x set yet.... they're more behind than I thought. That means 4085-4087 should be coming across from NJ tonight in a few hours.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Fan Railer

[subwaycommuter1983]

7 hours ago, Comrade96 said:

Seriously? CBTC on a 68? in your dreams

With good maintenance, the r68's can last another 10-12 years.

The issue is CBTC, which is needed in the entire system and the MTA did originally promised to install it system wide. The IND portion will be getting CBTC first. That's why subway lines that run on the IND need NTTs, including r211's. 

Installing CBTC on the IND portion and not putting CBTC on the rest of the B division lines is like putting a bandaid on a very deep wound. Improving service on some lines, while worsening service on other lines is not how we fix the system

[Comrade96]

3 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

With good maintenance, the r68's can last another 10-12 years.

The issue is CBTC, which is needed in the entire system and the MTA did originally promised to install it system wide. The IND portion will be getting CBTC first. That's why subway lines that run on the IND need NTTs, including r211's. 

Installing CBTC on the IND portion and not putting CBTC on the rest of the B division lines is like putting a bandaid on a very deep wound. Improving service on some lines, while worsening service on other lines is not how we fix the system

the reason the IND is getting it first is due to the fact that their signals are older than the BMTs, which I believe were upgraded decades ago (Not to CBTC but upgraded generally) So instead of replacing those with more blocks the MTA decided to just replace it with CBTC, at least this is my general understanding of it, someone feel free to correct me if im wrong

[AZthefoamer]

6 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

With good maintenance, the r68's can last another 10-12 years.

Hopefully not more than ten, especially depending upon when the MTA decides to add CBTC.

[Ale188]

12 hours ago, Reptile said:

For as many bad decisions as the MTA makes they will 100% fill the with R68s because the will all be getting CBTC which makes it impossible to put anything else.

You're absolutely right...Sorry. I should have known. It's like the N/Q/W are the most forgotten lines bc of the rolling stock they run. It's like the R is the MTA's favorite Broadway child. XD