R211 Discussion Thread

[1998NewFlyer]

3 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Enjoy your vibes because the R179 is the best performing equipment in the system right now based in the MDBF.  

I told you guys the issues on the R179 would be worked out and that is exactly what happened.

The same will be for the R211's.  So lets stop rushing things, nobody tell me they have been on the property long enough to have all issues ironed out by now.  Whenever all issues are ironed out, they will be a fine piece of equipment.

You say that as if I said the r179 is garbage.. I know that the r179 is the best performing  rolling stock in the system. Now that that's cleared up.     AGAIN  IM GETTING R179 VIBES ALL OVER AGAIN. 

[AZthefoamer]

Relax everyone. Kawasaki is only behind a couple of weeks at this point and the pilot set is currently testing. This will have a much better outcome than if everything is rushed and major problems are discovered later. Yes, ideally, we want these cars on the rails as soon as we can, but I prefer problems to show up now than later. The fact that problems are showing up on the test set when it is testing signifies that things are going well. Hopefully, they can get these in service soon, though I do not want them to rush it.

I doubt this will turn out like the R179s, and even if they do, the R179s are the best-performing trains in the fleet with the smoothest ride. I get it is hard for railfans to not complain, but we have no real reason to be upset presently.

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

1 hour ago, AZthefoamer said:

Relax everyone. Kawasaki is only behind a couple of weeks at this point and the pilot set is currently testing. This will have a much better outcome than if everything is rushed and major problems are discovered later. Yes, ideally, we want these cars on the rails as soon as we can, but I prefer problems to show up now than later. The fact that problems are showing up on the test set when it is testing signifies that things are going well. Hopefully, they can get these in service soon, though I do not want them to rush it.

I doubt this will turn out like the R179s, and even if they do, the R179s are the best-performing trains in the fleet with the smoothest ride. I get it is hard for railfans to not complain, but we have no real reason to be upset presently.

I don't disagree, but I think part of what upsets people is they were testing the R211 around the system for so long before actually putting it in revenue service, and it seems like some of these issues came up during the initial testing and weren't fully addressed/adequately fixed then. I was hoping that because the MTA had already been testing the R211 for so long, most problems were already addressed when they were put in passenger service.

[subwaycommuter1983]

10 minutes ago, ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ said:

I don't disagree, but I think part of what upsets people is they were testing the R211 around the system for so long before actually putting it in revenue service, and it seems like some of these issues came up during the initial testing and weren't fully addressed/adequately fixed then. I was hoping that because the MTA had already been testing the R211 for so long, most problems were already addressed when they were put in passenger service.

Not only that. What is also causing people to be very impatient with the r211's is the fact that the r44's and r46's are in terrible shape causing delays in subway service due to constant mechanical issues.

People are basically desperate for the r46's to retire. They have the worst MDBF

Edited May 2, 2023 by subwaycommuter1983

[RandomRider0101]

Patience is a virtue. When it comes to the R211s, everything so far has gone the way it's supposed to go. The R211 cars arrived & tested around the system for 20 months before starting in-service testing. In that time period, they would've had more than enough time to identify and correct all of the major flaws. 

Now that the R211s have started passenger testing, this is the time to identify & correct all the minor flaws. Once they do that, then the cars can officially enter service including the already-delivered cars, followed by the rest of the order.

This stuff is standard procedure with all subway car orders. It just wasn't followed properly with the r179 order, which is why those cars had so many problems. If they continue to do things the right way with the r211 order, everything will turn out just fine & we will have another reliable fleet on our hands.

[Bill from Maspeth]

On 5/1/2023 at 8:19 PM, 1998NewFlyer said:

You say that as if I said the r179 is garbage.. I know that the r179 is the best performing  rolling stock in the system. Now that that's cleared up.     AGAIN  IM GETTING R179 VIBES ALL OVER AGAIN. 

Will you get your R179 vibes all over again in a year or 2 when the R211 becomes THE best performing equipment in the system?

 

 

On 5/1/2023 at 10:04 PM, ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ said:

I don't disagree, but I think part of what upsets people is they were testing the R211 around the system for so long before actually putting it in revenue service, and it seems like some of these issues came up during the initial testing and weren't fully addressed/adequately fixed then. I was hoping that because the MTA had already been testing the R211 for so long, most problems were already addressed when they were put in passenger service.

You are missing something.  Yes the cars were testing around the system for a long time before the 30 day test.  But for how many consecutive hours in a day?  

Once the 30  day test in revenue service began, the ran every day for 12-14 hours a day every day.  The repetitive nature of in service testing is a lot different than controlled testing without passengers.

 

On 5/1/2023 at 10:13 PM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Not only that. What is also causing people to be very impatient with the r211's is the fact that the r44's and r46's are in terrible shape causing delays in subway service due to constant mechanical issues.

This response is to ALL.

This crowd and this site were not around when the R44/46 were delivered and the same stuff as today went on then.

But because of the internet being around today, the perception is that the initial problems with the R179's and the current problems with the R211's are unique.

If most of the contributors to this board were around from the time the first R46 truck cracks were discovered till the time all the new trucks were delivered and placed into service......well you guys would have something to REALLY bitch and moan about.  And during the same time transit had a very hard time keeping the R44's on the road becasue of numerous mechanical problems. 

You guys love to complain about the incompetence of transit and its executive employees.  Back in the day you guys would REALLY have had something to complain about.  

 

[Trainmaster5]

22 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

This response is to ALL.

This crowd and this site were not around when the R44/46 were delivered and the same stuff as today went on then.

But because of the internet being around today, the perception is that the initial problems with the R179's and the current problems with the R211's are unique.

If most of the contributors to this board were around from the time the first R46 truck cracks were discovered till the time all the new trucks were delivered and placed into service......well you guys would have something to REALLY bitch and moan about.  And during the same time transit had a very hard time keeping the R44's on the road becasue of numerous mechanical problems. 

You guys love to complain about the incompetence of transit and its executive employees.  Back in the day you guys would REALLY have had something to complain about.  

 

All I can say is AMEN. Thanks for pointing this out. I thought that many posters were aware of the issues pertaining to new subway car issues that have occurred in the past but obviously I was mistaken. What bothers me is that there is documented history of these issues online and even on present day sites of newspapers around the country. Googling Kawasaki production problems, M9 railcar, DC Metro issues, or other issues related to rail car production isn’t hard. It’s not only about rail cars. Remember the Grumman Flxible buses fiasco ? As you pointed out I’ve seen problems dating back to that time frame, R62-68 classes, R110 class, through the advent of the R142- class. Every time the issues were fixed. Patience is a virtue. Carry on 

[R32 3838]

1 hour ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

This response is to ALL.

This crowd and this site were not around when the R44/46 were delivered and the same stuff as today went on then.

But because of the internet being around today, the perception is that the initial problems with the R179's and the current problems with the R211's are unique.

If most of the contributors to this board were around from the time the first R46 truck cracks were discovered till the time all the new trucks were delivered and placed into service......well you guys would have something to REALLY bitch and moan about.  And during the same time transit had a very hard time keeping the R44's on the road becasue of numerous mechanical problems. 

You guys love to complain about the incompetence of transit and its executive employees.  Back in the day you guys would REALLY have had something to complain about.  

 

I get what you are saying and i respect your opinion but times have changed. The city back then didn't have the ridership that it we have now.   was far more worse off than it it now back then but it doesn't excuse their piss poor decisions of today. People are going to complain no matter what but you guys gotta understand that more and more people have moved into areas that were previously vacant for years so ridership grew. All the issues of the R211s will be ironed out but   still need to be called out for their bullshit for other issues not related to the R211s.  You have the entire state and city trying to force people to ditch their cars to take a transit system that isn't going to meet the ridership demand due to the shortage of subway cars (which by 2026-27 should be solved if option order II R211s are approved). I do favor congestion pricing but we can't do it if we aren't up to speed. A lot of people on here kept saying ridership wouldn't grow due to remote jobs, fast forward to the present day and 70% of those remote jobs forced people to go work in offices (which i already knew was going to happen)  and layoffs.

 

The state, The city and  the need to sit down and figure out how to fix the current issues because it's a big red flag when the state is trying to tax everything to fund a system that can't manage their money. People aren't going to stay quiet on that and all the attempts are not looking good at all.

 

I do agree that people should be patient when it comes to the R211s though.

[Lawrence St]

Good grief, can we act like adults in this thread for one damn day??? People are literally fighting with each other over opinions, enough already!

[Ale188]

4 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

This response is to ALL.

This crowd and this site were not around when the R44/46 were delivered and the same stuff as today went on then.

But because of the internet being around today, the perception is that the initial problems with the R179's and the current problems with the R211's are unique.

If most of the contributors to this board were around from the time the first R46 truck cracks were discovered till the time all the new trucks were delivered and placed into service......well you guys would have something to REALLY bitch and moan about.  And during the same time transit had a very hard time keeping the R44's on the road because of numerous mechanical problems. 

You guys love to complain about the incompetence of transit and its executive employees.  Back in the day you guys would REALLY have had something to complain about.  

 

Well, you're one to talk. 

 

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

I get what you are saying and i respect your opinion but times have changed. The city back then didn't have the ridership that it we have now.   was far more worse off than it it now back then but it doesn't excuse their piss poor decisions of today. People are going to complain no matter what but you guys gotta understand that more and more people have moved into areas that were previously vacant for years so ridership grew. All the issues of the R211s will be ironed out but   still need to be called out for their bullshit for other issues not related to the R211s.  You have the entire state and city trying to force people to ditch their cars to take a transit system that isn't going to meet the ridership demand due to the shortage of subway cars (which by 2026-27 should be solved if option order II R211s are approved). I do favor congestion pricing but we can't do it if we aren't up to speed. A lot of people on here kept saying ridership wouldn't grow due to remote jobs, fast forward to the present day and 70% of those remote jobs forced people to go work in offices (which i already knew was going to happen)  and layoffs.

 

The state, The city and  the need to sit down and figure out how to fix the current issues because it's a big red flag when the state is trying to tax everything to fund a system that can't manage their money. People aren't going to stay quiet on that and all the attempts are not looking good at all.

 

I do agree that people should be patient when it comes to the R211s though.

I agree with you. Like, 1000%. I'm not trying to be impatient, but I feel like most foamers are VERY impatient when it comes to new subway cars, ESPECIALLY these ones. I literally heard people screaming just because they finally caught the R211 when I went to NY in late March. Plus, who knows when all 142s and 160s will get graffiti bombed if the MTA doesn't make the right decision with their money and their funds? (okay, where was I going to?) The MTA literally has most of their trains late because of worker shortage, and if there is more worker shortage, people would rather be stuck in traffic in their car than ride a SEPTA-like subway system. (I say this because SEPTA is always late, buses, the MFL and BSL, you name it. I literally live near Philadelphia). So, sit down, do whatever, and wait, guys. I don't want to sound mean, but I agree with you, @R32 3838. This statement is really true.

[Ale188]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Good grief, can we act like adults in this thread for one damn day??? People are literally fighting with each other over opinions, enough already!

I mean, this is a pretty reasonable argument, so...and also, where d you get those bus signs on the bottom of where you say something? VERY random question because I like those.

[ABOGbrooklyn]

How much do you think it will cost and how much time would it take if the MTA opened up the 95th street wall to have trains be able to cross over past the station? Do you think the MTA would ever look into this so to increase frequencies. 

 

Only bringing it up because the MTA announced today that they will increase R frequencies to 8 minutes during Mid-day.

[1998NewFlyer]

8 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Will you get your R179 vibes all over again in a year or 2 when the R211 becomes THE best performing equipment in the system?

 

When I say I'm getting r179 vibes I mean that amount of time, I'm not saying the 211s are bad or be unreliable damn y'all are so sensitive 

[RandomRider0101]

27 minutes ago, 1998NewFlyer said:

When I say I'm getting r179 vibes I mean that amount of time, I'm not saying the 211s are bad or be unreliable damn y'all are so sensitive 

So what you're saying is that you're getting "r179 vibes" because the r211 order is taking a long time to progress? Do I have that right?

If so, you should expect to continue getting those 'vibes' as it is now common for our railcars to take at least 1 year for testing.

[subwaycommuter1983]

8 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

I get what you are saying and i respect your opinion but times have changed. The city back then didn't have the ridership that it we have now.   was far more worse off than it it now back then but it doesn't excuse their piss poor decisions of today. People are going to complain no matter what but you guys gotta understand that more and more people have moved into areas that were previously vacant for years so ridership grew. All the issues of the R211s will be ironed out but   still need to be called out for their bullshit for other issues not related to the R211s.  You have the entire state and city trying to force people to ditch their cars to take a transit system that isn't going to meet the ridership demand due to the shortage of subway cars (which by 2026-27 should be solved if option order II R211s are approved). I do favor congestion pricing but we can't do it if we aren't up to speed. A lot of people on here kept saying ridership wouldn't grow due to remote jobs, fast forward to the present day and 70% of those remote jobs forced people to go work in offices (which i already knew was going to happen)  and layoffs.

 

The state, The city and  the need to sit down and figure out how to fix the current issues because it's a big red flag when the state is trying to tax everything to fund a system that can't manage their money. People aren't going to stay quiet on that and all the attempts are not looking good at all.

 

I do agree that people should be patient when it comes to the R211s though.

I agree with you 100%. It seems that subway service is declining. Too many delays, especially within the last 5 days and the MTA is not informing riders about these delays neither through the website or on the stations.

Today I had to wait 15 minutes for either a northbound B or D train to go the Bronx. It happened about 4:10pm. The D didn't appear on the countdown clock and No information was provided neither on the website or the train station on why northbound BD trains were delayed at that time.

Sorry for the off topic rant, but I don't think it's right that riders have to wait 15 minutes for a train for "no reason", especially if these riders are either rushing to get home from school/work or they are rushing to pick up their kids from school or they are rushing to go to night school.

Going back to the r211's. We all need to be patient. Production trains are being delivered. Therefore, in a matter of weeks we'll be seeing a handful of r211's running on the A.

[Lex]

2 hours ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

How much do you think it will cost and how much time would it take if the MTA opened up the 95th street wall to have trains be able to cross over past the station? Do you think the MTA would ever look into this so to increase frequencies. 

 

Only bringing it up because the MTA announced today that they will increase R frequencies to 8 minutes during Mid-day.

Even if the MTA did that, the route through the Financial District would hamstring throughput on Broadway. You could pull a Wallyhorse afterward, but the resulting route would still be subjected to conflicts with other trains -- especially the  at Broad Street -- and a level of specialization that would render it effectively useless, much like the pre-2010 .

[Jdog14]

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I agree with you 100%. It seems that subway service is declining. Too many delays, especially within the last 5 days and the MTA is not informing riders about these delays neither through the website or on the stations.

Today I had to wait 15 minutes for either a northbound B or D train to go the Bronx. It happened about 4:10pm. The D didn't appear on the countdown clock and No information was provided neither on the website or the train station on why northbound BD trains were delayed at that time.

Sorry for the off topic rant, but I don't think it's right that riders have to wait 15 minutes for a train for "no reason", especially if these riders are either rushing to get home from school/work or they are rushing to pick up their kids from school or they are rushing to go to night school.

Going back to the r211's. We all need to be patient. Production trains are being delivered. Therefore, in a matter of weeks we'll be seeing a handful of r211's running on the A.

 

Some of that is crews missing either conductors or train operators or both. To make matters worse the D in particular has a huge problem with kids vandalizing the trains causing delays. Go anywhere around 79 st during school hrs and you will see the f*ckery ensue. 

[ABOGbrooklyn]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

Even if the MTA did that, the route through the Financial District would hamstring throughput on Broadway. You could pull a Wallyhorse afterward, but the resulting route would still be subjected to conflicts with other trains -- especially the  at Broad Street -- and a level of specialization that would render it effectively useless, much like the pre-2010 .

Why would opening up 95th street for crossovers affect lower Manhattan?

[Lex]

3 hours ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

Why would opening up 95th street for crossovers affect lower Manhattan?

I don't know how you reached that conclusion, but you did.

 

Regardless, this is definitely not the thread to continue this talk on.

[Ale188]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! THE FIRST R211S cars came! I know the video says 'premiering at 8:15 AM EST, but I so surprised! I thought it was gonna be delayed!

 

[AZthefoamer]

Oh, so they did deliver it then? They might not be so far behind schedule then. Hopefully we get to see it testing soon.

[Lawrence St]

What’s the point of covering the number plate? It’s not like the big  logo gives it away 😂

[Ale188]

9 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

What’s the point of covering the number plate? It’s not like the big  logo gives it away 😂

Probably to tell the diff. between a regular R211 and that one.

[Chris89292]

1 hour ago, Ale188 said:

Probably to tell the diff. between a regular R211 and that one.

Isn’t that staten island railway sticker enough to distinguish a New York City subway car with a SIR one??

[Lawrence St]

103-104 delivered. Kinda odd how they did it backwards but whatever.

But why is it being delivered to 36th St yard and not Clifton shops?