Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[bobtehpanda]

And the new tunnel isn't possible? It's the same thing with the to 34 St, they had to drill through the abandoned Southbound Platform of 42 St to create the tunnel, I do not see why it can not be done.

 

Well, for starters, that tunnel literally serves no purpose since it's doable to walk from Broad St to South Ferry. It would also require curving under the river???

[CenSin]

And the new tunnel isn't possible? It's the same thing with the to 34 St, they had to drill through the abandoned Southbound Platform of 42 St to create the tunnel, I do not see why it can not be done.

You didn't really think this through. What tunnels or levels down in lower Manhattan are even abandoned? Name a tunnel that you can destroy and drive a tunnel boring machine through down there.

[mine248]

 

-Eastchester-Dyre Aveune to Coney Island via West End line.

[MTA Dude]

-Eastchester-Dyre Aveune to Coney Island via West End line.

 

 Okay...

[2Line1291]

I mean if anything the Dyre Ave Line is the easiest to convert to B Division standards

[Eric B]

They completely burned their bridges in connecting Dyre to anything. Not only the bus garage, but now they're putting up an apartment complex right where the line was cut off.

[2Line1291]

I know!!..... so it's almost as if there's zero chance of

1. connecting Dyre Ave  with the Pelham  which would..

2. Allow the to run Bronx Express trains since it wouldn't have to share WPR with the anymore

 

Wasnt' there a previous plan about this though.

[bobtehpanda]

I know!!..... so it's almost as if there's zero chance of

1. connecting Dyre Ave  with the Pelham  which would..

2. Allow the to run Bronx Express trains since it wouldn't have to share WPR with the anymore

 

Wasnt' there a previous plan about this though.

 

There was, but it required SAS to go up to the Bronx and take over the Pelham Line, which is clearly not going to happen these days even if we had the money for it.

[CenSin]

There was, but it required SAS to go up to the Bronx and take over the Pelham Line, which is clearly not going to happen these days even if we had the money for it.

There are 4 tracks from the Lexington Avenue line to the Bronx, but two of them are dedicated to local service. Should the be removed from the Pelham Line, either the or has to fill in, but they are both connected in such a way that the and must merge before they split into the local and express at 125 Street.

[7 Densha Master]

For possible projects to happen to improve Queens' subways the M can be extended along a old part of an abandoned freight line to connect trains from Middle Village to Queens Blvd without the need of a Bus Transfer as well as to extend for the old 1970's plans for the Horace Harding Expressway subway to Kissena Blvd. Another would be to return G service along Queens Blvd to operate the old Rockaway Branch line to Beach 116 to replace the current shuttle. Another add-on to service would be to extend the 3 and 4 from New Lot Ave to JFK to add more services to JFK. The C should be extended full time to Lefferts Blvd relieving A service to operate only to Far Rockaway. The current 7 extension should have been in phases to extend to 14th street and 11th ave and to have the L finally make a new connection to the 7 train at 11th ave-Chelsea Market station. What do you all think about my ideas for future projects?

[bobtehpanda]

There are 4 tracks from the Lexington Avenue line to the Bronx, but two of them are dedicated to local service. Should the be removed from the Pelham Line, either the or has to fill in, but they are both connected in such a way that the and must merge before they split into the local and express at 125 Street.

 

I'm well aware of the fact; the 1968 Plan for Action had a Phase I segment with a Dyre/Pelham SAS. I'm not sure how it would've been done, but the plans existed:

 

[Lance]

It would've been done as such:

 

From Manhattan, the Second Avenue line would've branched off to hit the Pelham line for a cross-platform transfer at Brook Av (said station would've been rebuilt to facilitate such a transfer. The line would then head east on East 138th Street, either flanking the IRT Pelham line or dipping below it, to hit the ROW of the former NYW&B (now Amtrak tracks, currently considered for NH-Penn Station access). It would then use those tracks and run north to about where the Cross Bronx Expressway and then be reconnected to the Dyre Avenue tracks.

 

To get to the northern section of the Pelham line (north of Hunts Point Av), the Second Avenue line would branch off from the Amtrak ROW near Whitlock Av and run to Pelham Bay Park (later Co-Op City) via the converted Pelham Line. The section of Pelham from Hunts Point Av south would remain IRT and services from the Lexington Ave line would terminate at Hunts Point Av.

 

In the original and revised plans for the 1968 Program, there was never any proposal to convert the entire Pelham Line. As CenSin pointed out, the lines were built in such a way that the local tracks lead to Pelham and the express tracks to Jerome or WPR. Changing that would've resulted in a massive rebuild, which I don't think even they wanted to take on, given they were already planning on rebuilding two other problematic junctions (Mott Avenue, Rodgers).

[LTA1992]

Well, I've been planning this out for about a week, and am still planning. This is my proposal for a new set of lines that converge into a 1st Avenue Trunk Line. The idea came to me when I realized that the current Second Avenue subway plans won't truly solve the East Side subway problem, being only two tracks. Even if it is extended to another borough, at max, it can only hold three services. The and on the upper section. Then the and a possible line from Queens on the lower portion. Being an all local, how attractive could it really be to those passing through Manhattan?

 

The First Avenue Subway is a plan that adds 7 routes to the system that will serve not only Manhattans East side, but also serve The Bronx, Brooklyn, and Queens. The Trunk Line in Manhattan will be a six track line and will consist of two levels. The upper level will contain 4 tracks and host regular local and express services. A two track lower level will host super express trains. The trunk line itself will hold 7 services and will allow for up to 60 trains per hour. An 8th route will be a line that runs via a spur from the 8th Avenue line and adding a local service to a trunk line in Williamsburg. Let's just pretend this city has money and can demolish buildings to make a new street. Yeah, let's do that. I'm still planning outer borough connections but I've planned for services in Brooklyn as well. When it comes to services, there aren't enough letters in the alphabet, so I've taken the from Jamaica. Sorry passengers, but PROGRESS!

 

The line in Manhattan will be six tracks from the Harlem River to just about East 5th Street. At Houston Street, the line will split, with 6 tracks running east via Houston to Brooklyn, and two tracks will continue downtown to Fulton Center.

 

Super Express Lines: and

Express Lines: (P), , and

Local Routes (In Manhattan): (X) and

8th Avenue Spur and 2nd Brooklyn Local: [The World Trade Center Station will no longer be in use for regular service]

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stations are:

 

125th Street [Local]

116th Street [Local]

110th Street [Local]

103rd Street [Local]

96th Street [super Express]

86th Street [Local]

79th Street [Local]

70th Street [Express]

61st Street [Local]

57th Street [Local]

49th Street [Local]

42nd Street-United Nations [super Express] (Xfer to )

34th Street [Express]

29th Street [Local]

20th Street-Stuyvesant Town [Local]

14th Street [Express] (Xfer to )

St. Marks Place-East Village [Local]

[Around E 5 Street, two extra tracks are created, a Local and an Express utilizes them. Both services will make all stops.]

Houston Street [super Express] (Xfer to )

*Note, the Main Trunk has turned onto Houston at this station. The downtown branch remains on Allen Street (1st Avenue)

 

Main Trunk stations after Houston:

 

Avenue C [Local]

*The line then heads to Brooklyn. Next stop: Washington Plaza [Local]

 

Branch Line Stations:

 

Delancey Street-Allen Street [Transfer to and ]

Chatham Square [Transfer to and ]

Church Street-Broadway (Transfer to and ) *Last Stop

 

8th Avenue Spur [via Worth Street and East Broadway] stations:

 

Lafayette Street

Chatham Square

Essex-Rutgers Streets

Columbia Street

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some details on station locations:

 

125th Street pretty much sits under the Triborough Bridge. It provides transit for the adjoining housing projects.

70th and 29th Street stations are to serve hospitals in the area. 70th is Express because it serves more hospitals.

20th Street exists to give the residents of Peter Cooper village and Stuy Town more transit options.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the Lower Manhattan branch, just south of Houston Street station at Stanton Street would be a provision for a spur to connect to the Grand Street Station for possible service across the Manhattan Bridge. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This post will evolve over the coming days and weeks as I plan. Brooklyn is almost done. The sole Queens line is still in planning and the Bronx lines are also in planning. Thanks for reading.

Edited October 12, 2014 by LTA1992

[Wallyhorse]

One major problem with your 1st Avenue line is the area around the UN, especially with the tunnel that goes under from 41st-49th Street.

[LTA1992]

You can always go deeper. Have you forgotten that the and dips lower to pass under the Park Avenue Tunnel?

[Quill Depot]

You can always go deeper. Have you forgotten that the and dips lower to pass under the Park Avenue Tunnel?

Not when you are so close to water sometimes.

[TheNewYorkElevated]

Another proposal of mine. This one a line revival. 

 

Line 

( R ) BMT 4th Avenue-Nassau Street Line

Subway Cars It Would Be Using

R32

R42

R143

Times Available

Rush hours only. Both direction

General Service

The line starts at Bay Ridge-95th Street with the main  . Once it meets the  at 59th Street (and the at 36th Street), it will run local all throughout most of 4th Avenue.

It would then cross over the Manhattan Bridge shown here on your right (2 trains each in both directions due to weight limits), and turn into the lost Nassau Street connector to the bridge (thus reactivating those tracks), before eventually going into the middle platforms at Chambers Street to terminate.

 

What do you think?

[LTA1992]

Not when you are so close to water sometimes.

Yes you can. The Paris Metro has done it and they have stations right at the shoreline of the Seine River and is just as old as our own subway.

Edited October 12, 2014 by LTA1992

[Quill Depot]

Another proposal of mine. This one a line revival.

 

Blah

 

What do you think?

Doesn't connect to a yard which is one major problem in my opinion, meaning T/O's will have to go from CI via West End. Most lines have an easy connection to their yard. Look at all the lines and where their yards are and you'll understand.

 

If this would be possible I would terminate it at Chambers via tunnel and have it turn back there, because people can get on in both directions, and then you don't have to make a switch or track where there isn't one. In addition there would be less tracks to share with other trains and less merges.

 

In Brooklyn I would run it via West End, instead of via the R the entire way. That way it has a direct yard connection, and more access to 4th Av local stops than Sea Beach would, although Sea Beach is also a good contestant due to higher Sea Beach ridership.

 

The better option would be extra service that short turned at 57th St. It would provide downtown and midtown service, and a possible future SAS uptown service. With that you still run the no-yard problem, but it shouldn't be a big deal as the line is still mostly part of the . If this were to happen however, I would send some trains via Broadway express to alleviate crowding. This seems best as a rush only service. However the downfall is the lack of connection to the Nassau St line.

 

All in all, this brown R idea has some potential, such as more 4th Av local service. However, I find a line like this would have very low demand of ridership because it only connects to Lower Manhattan. The better idea, mentioned above would be the short turned 's to 57th, however it also has it's downsides.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Quill Depot

[TheNewYorkElevated]

Doesn't connect to a yard which is one major problem in my opinion, meaning T/O's will have to go from CI via West End. Most lines have an easy connection to their yard. Look at all the lines and where their yards are and you'll understand.

 

If this would be possible I would terminate it at Chambers via tunnel and have it turn back there, because people can get on in both directions, and then you don't have to make a switch or track where there isn't one. In addition there would be less tracks to share with other trains and less merges.

 

In Brooklyn I would run it via West End, instead of via the R the entire way. That way it has a direct yard connection, and more access to 4th Av local stops than Sea Beach would, although Sea Beach is also a good contestant due to higher Sea Beach ridership.

 

The better option would be extra service that short turned at 57th St. It would provide downtown and midtown service, and a possible future SAS uptown service. With that you still run the no-yard problem, but it shouldn't be a big deal as the line is still mostly part of the . If this were to happen however, I would send some trains via Broadway express to alleviate crowding. This seems best as a rush only service. However the downfall is the lack of connection to the Nassau St line.

 

All in all, this brown R idea has some potential, such as more 4th Av local service. However, I find a line like this would have very low demand of ridership because it only connects to Lower Manhattan. The better idea, mentioned above would be the short turned 's to 57th, however it also has it's downsides.

Okay. Quill, I really like it how you described the idea.

 

In addition to that, I have another proposal for the in Queens which should be a good idea.

 

This one is another proposal for the defunct line, but for its service in Queens. During rush hours, the  acts as an express between Astoria-Ditmars and Queensboro Plaza. The  and  will remain local. The express service runs like just the  and  ; AM to Manhattan, PM from Manhattan. This is so that way the middle track on the BMT Astoria can see some revenue use.

[RollOver]

As stated time and time again, express service on the Astoria isn't need at all because:

 

1. It skips almost all of the stops except for Ditmars and the plaza.

 

2. It will have to merge with the local south of 39 Av, and merge with the further south of the plaza.

 

3. All of the 7 stops are important.

 

So you see, there's no need at all for express service on the Astoria Line.

[bobtehpanda]

You can always go deeper. Have you forgotten that the and dips lower to pass under the Park Avenue Tunnel?

 

Well, yes, but it's an actual security issue at the UN. Also, can we even do that? I don't think the UN property is treated as part of America or New York, so actually digging under the property could be complicated.

[LTA1992]

Who says to dig under it? 1st Avenue usn't under it. Plus, doesn't the Steinway Tubes already do that?

[Wallyhorse]

Another proposal of mine. This one a line revival. 

 

Line 

( R ) BMT 4th Avenue-Nassau Street Line

Subway Cars It Would Be Using

R32

R42

R143

Times Available

Rush hours only. Both direction

General Service

The line starts at Bay Ridge-95th Street with the main  . Once it meets the  at 59th Street (and the at 36th Street), it will run local all throughout most of 4th Avenue.

It would then cross over the Manhattan Bridge shown here on your right (2 trains each in both directions due to weight limits), and turn into the lost Nassau Street connector to the bridge (thus reactivating those tracks), before eventually going into the middle platforms at Chambers Street to terminate.

 

What do you think?

I would do this, but as a loop line with ONLY the Brooklyn-bound track of the Manny B reconnected to the Nassau Line (this to avoid at-grade crossovers).

 

My version of this would potentially be a 19/7 or 24/7 line that could be a "Brown " train that would run as follows:

 

95th Street would be the sole terminal of the line (for operational purposes, Chambers Street would be considered the "northern" terminal, but it would just stop there like any other station).

 

Train would operate like the regular does in Brooklyn going to Manhattan via the tunnel, but coming from Manhattan after Chambers Street would go over the Manny B back to Brooklyn.  Because of this, the following stations would ONLY be served by northbound trains on the uptown track since southbound trains would be running over the bridge:

 

DeKalb Avenue (if necessary to skip that station coming back on the Manny B)

Jay Street-Metrotech

Court Street

Broad Street

Fulton Street

Chambers Street (again, the north terminal for operational purposes but in reality a regular stop).

 

After Chambers, such trains go over the Manny B back to Brooklyn.

 

This "Brown " could also be done via West End (with most likely Bay Parkway being the sole terminal) if such service is warranted.

[Quill Depot]

I would do this, but as a loop line with ONLY the Brooklyn-bound track of the Manny B reconnected to the Nassau Line (this to avoid at-grade crossovers).

 

My version of this would potentially be a 19/7 or 24/7 line that could be a "Brown " train that would run as follows:

 

95th Street would be the sole terminal of the line (for operational purposes, Chambers Street would be considered the "northern" terminal, but it would just stop there like any other station).

 

Train would operate like the regular does in Brooklyn going to Manhattan via the tunnel, but coming from Manhattan after Chambers Street would go over the Manny B back to Brooklyn.  Because of this, the following stations would ONLY be served by northbound trains on the uptown track since southbound trains would be running over the bridge:

 

DeKalb Avenue (if necessary to skip that station coming back on the Manny B)

Jay Street-Metrotech

Court Street

Broad Street

Fulton Street

Chambers Street (again, the north terminal for operational purposes but in reality a regular stop).

 

After Chambers, such trains go over the Manny B back to Brooklyn.

 

This "Brown " could also be done via West End (with most likely Bay Parkway being the sole terminal) if such service is warranted.

 

Why not just turn the train around at Chambers and have it go back the other way. That way you serve all the stations in both directions.