Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[TrainFanInfinity]

Random plan:

Merge of PATH & NYC Subway.

 

: Hoboken - Newport - Exchange Place - World Trade Center - Brooklyn Bridge. Weekends all trains run to Newark Liberty Airport.

: Newark Liberty Airport - Newark Penn Station - Harrison - Journal Square - Grove Street - Exchange Place - World Trade Center - Brooklyn Bridge

: Terminates at Secaucus Junction OR Javits Center (can't decide) - 10th Avenue - Times Square

: Newark Liberty Airport - Newark Penn Station - Harrison - Secaucus Junction - Javits Center - 10th Avenue - Times Square

(15): Journal Square - Grove Street - Newport - Christopher St - 9th - 14th - 23rd - 33rd, late nights/weekends via Hoboken

(16): Hoboken - Christopher St - 9th - 14th - 23rd - 33rd, late nights/weekends doesn't run

 

The World Trade Center line would be merged with the City Hall "loop".

The 42nd Street line would be merged to the ARC Tunnel, which would be extended from Secaucus Junction via the NJT R.O.W. to the PATH tracks.

PATH was also proposed to be extended, so here it is.

& trains would use current fleet, (15) & (16) would use the PATH fleet.

All connections severed between NJT tracks & PATH tracks.

 

I couldn't resist posting this. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by TrainFanInfinity

[lupojohn]

Send the to Queens Plaza. The shares the express track with the Forest Hills-bound. Move it to the local track with the , as they do when they share the local track southbound. Regarding tph and all that, you can figure out how to configure that stuff so the still has good service and the can terminate on the middle tracks.

Edited October 23, 2014 by lupojohn

[Eric B]

They can't do that, because the switch is past the station, not before it. So the has to come in on the express track northdbound.

[LTA1992]

1st Avenue Trunk Line System

 

The new system of lines will consist of, at max, 142 new stations if the Battery Park City extension of the Lower Manhattan branch makes sense. The system will have to be built with cut and cover as well as mining in some places. There will absolutely not be any sort of TBM activity for these lines. The Second Avenue Subway first phase took way too long and boring through some of the hardest rock in the world was not the smartest idea anyway. The intent is this system of lines are built as quickly as possible, with a new Rapid Transit Tax being the source of funding. The amount paid would depend on how much your income is. 5 bucks would be the minimum tax. The max is TBD, but everyone who lives within the service area will need to pay the tax.

 

The overall station wall design would be plain white with the MTA's signage a permanent part of the wall. The white tiles, on the otherhand, can be easily changed to place in artwork that spans floor to ceiling and possible, the entire length of a platform wall. Local stations will be what you expect them to be. Structurally, there will be no platform pillars. Lighting will be different than than the norm. Instead of being at the platform edge ceiling, I'd like to see a style similar to that of that Paris Metro Louvre station. Where there is lighting over the platform edge, but also lights shining from that base and roofs of the walls in the Manhattan and South 4th Street line local stations. The other line stations will get lighting similar to recessed lights in the ceilings so that the environment is more relaxing.

 

Express stations would be the typical 4 Tracks, 2 Island platform construction. The walls would be of Blue coloring. Tiling can also be replaced with giant pieces of artwork.

 

Super Express Stations, I have two physical designs in mind. The upper level with the typical Express station setup, the super express level having two options:

 

1: The Super express tracks sit under the express tracks the entire length of the line and contain two side platforms or...

 

2: The Super express tracks sit under the local tracks for the entire line, with there being one island platform at the stations.

 

All Super Express stations will have a level between the express level ans super level for crossovers. All Express and super express stations will have mezzanines that span the entire station. Local station will (except at locations where it can't be done) have two exits, one fully staffed, but no full length mezzanines.

Edited October 23, 2014 by LTA1992

[RollOver]

Send the to Queens Plaza. The shares the express track with the Forest Hills-bound. Move it to the local track with the , as they do when they share the local track southbound. Regarding tph and all that, you can figure out how to configure that stuff so the still has good service and the can terminate on the middle tracks.

 

I still don't understand why some heads want the anywhere on the Queens Blvd. The demand to/from Crosstown is extremely tiny. And then what? Delay the , and trains trying to come into/from the station at all costs?

[DailyDose]

This is more of a fantasy, but how about a Bronx-Queens Crosstown? 

This would be the (O) line and go with the same lime green of the .

 

Bronx Park

E Tremont Ave

Parkchester

Lafayette Avenue

Lacombe Avenue-Pugsley Creek

Classon Point

- tunnel across the river - ending up at 150th Street in Queens.

14th Avenue/150th Street

Willets Point Blvd.

Bayside Avenue

33rd Avenue

Murray Hill - LIRR Transfer

- down Roosevelt Avenue -

Parsons Blvd.

Flushing Main Street

- down Main Street

Cherry Avenue - Botanical Gardens

60th Avenue

Queens College/Melbourne Avenue

- down Jewel Avenue -

136th St. - Van Wyck

Forest Hills - 71 Av

[lupojohn]

I still don't understand why some heads want the anywhere on the Queens Blvd. The demand to/from Crosstown is extremely tiny. And then what? Delay the , and trains trying to come into/from the station at all costs?

From what I have read, it has to do with the whole stuff from 2010. A few years ago yes, but people were not happy. Essentially, they felt when the was cut and the was consolidated to take it's place, the was cut back and they felt it wasn't fair.

[RollOver]

From what I have read, it has to do with the whole stuff from 2010. A few years ago yes, but people were not happy. Essentially, they felt when the was cut and the was consolidated to take it's place, the was cut back and they felt it wasn't fair.

 

Completely wrong. The being eliminated from QB was because of the constant flagging with track/signal maintainers and other regular weekend & late night GOs.

 

Apparently, you forgotten that's also why damn near every line got their headways lowered to about 10-12 minute headways all throughout Saturday & Sunday, no?

Edited October 23, 2014 by RollOver

[Lance]

It was always the MTA's intention to cut the G back to Court Sq permanently way back in 2001 when the V was introduced, but community opposition led to what we saw for about a decade, the G running to Forest Hills nights and weekends on paper, but curtailed to Long Island City most weekends for one reason or another. Mind you, some of those reasons had nothing to do with the Crosstown or Queens Blvd lines. The service cut in 2010 just solidified what was already happening.

 

As for bringing the G back to Queens Blvd, I'd look into having the M run up there on weekends instead.

[lupojohn]

Regarding the above comments, i'll just say that sending the in place of the when it doesn't run is not a bad idea(weekends, maybe late night).

 

Here is the most recent article about the . The author is a board member of the Riders' Alliance:

 

http://www.secondavenuesagas.com/2013/01/29/the-g-trains-chicken-and-egg-problem/

 

I think there are 3 key points here:

 

An out of system transfer to the and to Atlantic-Barclays could increase ridership if these folks know they had an easier way to connect to these lines. It's something that the could explore.

 

A crowded train is defined as every seat taken and a quarter of the train standing. Well, some people put their packages on seats and since the uses a fleet with two-seaters, does that mean the considers a seat with a package as taken? If so, that's illogical and they need to seriously overhaul this definition of a crowded train.

 

The reason for low ridership is because, as the article says, they avoid the because it doesn't run very often(which is true), waits are too long(definitely true. I know this firsthand) and that the is always crowded(only point in the article that is not true). They can run more trains and cut wait times. 

 

Simply put, I don't see the hesitation in at least experimenting with enhanced service. As I mentioned, run it in place of the when the isn't running and maybe follow the points I and the article points out and the low ridership that is pointed out in above comments may or may not change, but if we on't try this, we'll never know. It can't hurt any line and any commuter. A moving walkway at Court Square is not the answer(threw that in as a random thought).

[Wallyhorse]

As for bringing the G back to Queens Blvd, I'd look into having the M run up there on weekends instead.

And the running nights/weekends on QB might have to eventually happen anyway for an unrelated reason: The area around the former Domino Sugar plant gets built up along with much of the rest of the area along Broadway in Brooklyn.

[Lance]

Would you give it a rest with that. You have this tendency to overstate the importance of certain projects and interest groups, much to the detriment of many members of this forum. The M is not going to see this explosion of riders simply because a relatively small area is getting revitalized. Even if it did, what does that have to do with Queens Blvd? Are you somehow expecting all of these new riders to take the M to travel between Brooklyn and Queens, even at the dead of night? These are some of the questions you have to ask when you come up with these ideas.

[MysteriousBtrain]

And the running nights/weekends on QB might have to eventually happen anyway for an unrelated reason: The area around the former Domino Sugar plant gets built up along with much of the rest of the area along Broadway in Brooklyn.

 

It this were to happen, it won't happen for a VERY LONG TIME.

 

[Wallyhorse]

Would you give it a rest with that. You have this tendency to overstate the importance of certain projects and interest groups, much to the detriment of many members of this forum. The M is not going to see this explosion of riders simply because a relatively small area is getting revitalized. Even if it did, what does that have to do with Queens Blvd? Are you somehow expecting all of these new riders to take the M to travel between Brooklyn and Queens, even at the dead of night? These are some of the questions you have to ask when you come up with these ideas.

That's why I said unrelated: 

 

In this case, it could be something totally unrelated to QB that causes the to re-think the and in this case, further extend the since they would need to bring the line further into Manhattan on nights and weekends anyway. 

 

As I learned many years ago, sometimes something very small like that is the catalyst for something much bigger.  The Domino project is not that small of a project and once completed was already expected from what I understand to put more pressure on the that as we know is already crowded.  The is likely to also get more passengers looking for midtown, and that, coupled with complaints of how the can't handle being the QB local alone AND the blowback that would happen by making the a local on QB on weekends is why a relatively small project could in this case prove to be such.

[Quill Depot]

to Bowling Green late-nights. Provides a little extra service, and access to more transfers, where there's little service.

[DailyDose]

to Bowling Green late-nights. Provides a little extra service, and access to more transfers, where there's little service.

You can't have both and trains turning around on the South Ferry inner. This has been discussed before, it's better to keep service on that end of the Lex the way it is.

[MTA Dude]

You can't have both and trains turning around on the South Ferry inner. This has been discussed before, it's better to keep service on that end of the Lex the way it is.

 

He said late nights. I agree. I thought people know that , , and trains can't go together, plus they were heavily delayed from the express runs in the service changes, let alone terminate.

[MysteriousBtrain]

to Bowling Green late-nights. Provides a little extra service, and access to more transfers, where there's little service.

Seems somewhat useless.  This is when very few people ride the subway. You want that Bowling Green service, there is the . 

[MTA Dude]

This is more of a fantasy, but how about a Bronx-Queens Crosstown? 

This would be the (O) line and go with the same lime green of the .

 

Bronx Park

E Tremont Ave

Parkchester

Lafayette Avenue

Lacombe Avenue-Pugsley Creek

Classon Point

- tunnel across the river - ending up at 150th Street in Queens.

14th Avenue/150th Street

Willets Point Blvd.

Bayside Avenue

33rd Avenue

Murray Hill - LIRR Transfer

- down Roosevelt Avenue -

Parsons Blvd.

Flushing Main Street

- down Main Street

Cherry Avenue - Botanical Gardens

60th Avenue

Queens College/Melbourne Avenue

- down Jewel Avenue -

136th St. - Van Wyck

Forest Hills - 71 Av

 

Hey, can I borrow parts of your idea for a fantasy map?

[Wallyhorse]

Seems somewhat useless.  This is when very few people ride the subway. You want that Bowling Green service, there is the . 

The idea is BOTH the and would go to Bowling Green, which would help those looking for the SI Ferry.  The in fact USED to run late nights to South Ferry (outer loop) and that included a Bowling Green stop (in the days when you had the old BG-SF shuttle that ended in 1977). 

[Union Tpke]

Hey, can I borrow parts of your idea for a fantasy map?

you don't need to ask. Many people have the idea of a Utica Av line, that doesn't mean you can't use it.

[Lance]

to Bowling Green late-nights. Provides a little extra service, and access to more transfers, where there's little service.

There is little need for the 6 to be extended. The 4 is already running local in Manhattan, so riders from Harlem already have a one-seat ride to/from Bowling Green. The only ones who'd benefit are riders coming from the Pelham heading for Lower Manhattan. Said benefits would not likely balance the added costs for the line extension.

 

That's why I said unrelated: 

 

In this case, it could be something totally unrelated to QB that causes the to re-think the and in this case, further extend the since they would need to bring the line further into Manhattan on nights and weekends anyway. 

 

As I learned many years ago, sometimes something very small like that is the catalyst for something much bigger.  The Domino project is not that small of a project and once completed was already expected from what I understand to put more pressure on the that as we know is already crowded.  The is likely to also get more passengers looking for midtown, and that, coupled with complaints of how the can't handle being the QB local alone AND the blowback that would happen by making the a local on QB on weekends is why a relatively small project could in this case prove to be such.

You're still over-stating the importance of a small project. I've decided to look into this damn thing since you pitch it all the time. On a side-note, I have to wonder if you're an investor in this with your high interest and all. Anyhow, it's still just a redevelopment of the refinery and the immediate area around it. You're making it out like they're rebuilding all of Williamsburg. Maybe you're right and this will lead to more development around the Waterfront, but I still don't see the connection between this and any expansion of Queens Blvd service, especially for late night service. As for any potential increase in riders on the L and M lines, that's a given regardless of what happens. Ridership numbers are steadily on the rise and have been for the past few years. Besides, the refinery isn't exactly all that close to any subway station. It's right next to the Williamsburg Bridge, but about seven blocks west of the Marcy Av station, as well as almost ten blocks south and five west of Bedford Av on the L line.

[LTA1992]

This may be my final post about the First Avenue Subway system proposal.

 

Service Guide

 

8 routes in total will use the new set of lines. Of the 8, 7 are brand new routes. I wanted to avoid using the letter P and almost used M. The reason being that the construction of the Myrtle-Merrick Line would have resulted in the demolition of the Myrtle Avenue "L". I thought that M was freed and completely neglected to remember that 53rd Street needs a local to run with the E. So the M would pretty much run the old V route. This service guide includes the Battery Park City extension of the Lower Manhattan Branch.

 

1st Avenue Super Express/3rd Avenue-Allerton Express/Utica Avenue Express

                                        Co-Op City, The Bronx

                                                       to

                                       Voorhies Avenue, Brooklyn

*Late Nights via 1st Ave Exp, 3rd Ave Local, and Utica Local

-----------------------------------------------------------------

1st Avenue Super Express/3rd Avenue-Riverdale Express/Myrtle-Merrick Express

                                               Riverdale-261st Street, The Bronx

                                                                 to

                                               Rosedale-148th Avenue, Queens

*Late Nights via 1st Avenue Exp, Riverdale Lcl, 3rd Avenue Exp, Myrtle-Merrick Lcl

-----------------------------------------------------------------

(P) 1st Avenue Express/Boston Road-3rd Avenue Express

                    Eastchester-Conner Street, The Bronx

                                                to

                            Battery Park City, Manhattan

*Late Nights via Local

-----------------------------------------------------------------

(U) 1st Avenue Express/South Bronx Express/Bushwick-Pennsylvania Express

                                Throgs Neck-Harding Avenue, The Bronx

                                                            to

                                           Starrett City, Brooklyn

*Late Nights via Local

-----------------------------------------------------------------

1st Avenue Local/Riverdale-3rd Avenue Local

                    Riverdale Park, The Bronx

                                       to

                   Battery Park City, Manhattan

*Late Nights, No Service. Riverdale Park Station is closed during this time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

1st Avenue Local/Boston Rd-3rd Avenue Local/Bushwick-Pennsylvania Local

                                         Gun Hill Road, The Bronx

                                                          to

                                           Starrett City, Brooklyn

*Late Nights, No Service

-----------------------------------------------------------------

1st Avenue Local/South Bronx Local/Myrtle-Merrick Local

                              White Plains Road, The Bronx

                                                 to

                                  Conduit Avenue, Queens

*Late Nights No Service

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The E route get's a service change as it does utilize the 8th Avenue Spur to connect with the new lines in Brooklyn

 

8th Avenue Local/Queens Boulevard Express/Utica Avenue Local

                         Jamaica Center-Parsons/Archer, Queens

                                                      to

                            Kings Plaza Mall-Avenue U, Brooklyn

*Late Nights, Local in Queens.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

There are two options for the bullet color of the new lines. I would like a noticeable color that's as noticeable as the 8th Avenue dark blue. So I was thinking either Magenta or Burgundy.

Edited October 28, 2014 by LTA1992

[DailyDose]

Hey, can I borrow parts of your idea for a fantasy map?

Sure

[MTA Dude]

Sure

 

Thx, and this:

 

 

Bronx Park   

E Tremont Ave

Parkchester 

Lafayette Avenue

Lacombe Avenue-Pugsley Creek

Classon Point

 

Can you classify the streets for me?