Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[rewenzo]

 

If you use Google Drive, you can click NEW and select My Maps. You can then begin to plot down lines and station bubbles.

 

Sorry, I was asking if I could get a link to your google map, which you referenced above as the basis for your schematic map.

[LTA1992]

Sorry, I was asking if I could get a link to your google map, which you referenced above as the basis for your schematic map.

Ah. If you use Gmail, could you PM it to me? I can share you the Drive file.

[TheNewYorkElevated]

Since the ceiling was recently falling today at Chambers Street on the and , I propose that the station undergo a full renovation. Here's how it would it go down.

 

On late nights and weekends, the terminates at Essex Street (note that this will take place after the switch east of the station before the Williamsburg Bridge will be reinstalled and fully operational).

 

The renovation work will focus on most of the station overall (details, cielings, etc.) The abandoned western platforms would be left alone. I would imagine the eastern platforms getting renovations as well, along with restoration of the early 20th century details. The abandoned middle platform would also be part of the renovations.

 

What do you think?

[LTA1992]

A renovation for Chambers Street has been in the works as far back as 2012 if I remember correctly and should have begun around the same time as the Sea Beach and Culver Line rehabilitation's. I wonder what happened to that.

 

Also, the abandoned western platforms no longer exist. Renovate the station, and you have to either:

 

A) Renovate the abandoned eastern platform as well, because you can't just leave it looking decrepit. That is artwork of the BRT/BMTs past and I doubt the will want to leave it looking this way.

 

B) Renovate the station and wall off the remaining eastern platform. But I don't see this happening because, like I said above, its art. And members of the realized the mistakes made when re-tiling the Broadway Line and 4th Avenue Line stations and those involved actually regretted it.

Edited February 27, 2016 by LTA1992

[NewFlyer 230]

Since the ceiling was recently falling today at Chambers Street on the and , I propose that the station undergo a full renovation. Here's how it would it go down.

 

On late nights and weekends, the terminates at Essex Street (note that this will take place after the switch east of the station before the Williamsburg Bridge will be reinstalled and fully operational).

 

The renovation work will focus on most of the station overall (details, cielings, etc.) The abandoned western platforms would be left alone. I would imagine the eastern platforms getting renovations as well, along with restoration of the early 20th century details. The abandoned middle platform would also be part of the renovations.

 

What do you think?

It is in bad shape. I got to visit that stations the first time a few months ago and it is massive but it's also just wasted. The size is probably what stops them from fixing it up .

[Around the Horn]

A renovation for Chambers Street has been in the works as far back as 2012 if I remember correctly and should have begun around the same time as the Sea Beach and Culver Line rehabilitation's. I wonder what happened to that.

 

Also, the abandoned western platforms no longer exist. Renovate the station, and you have to either:

 

A) Renovate the abandoned eastern platform as well, because you can't just leave it looking decrepit. That is artwork of the BRT/BMTs past and I doubt the will want to leave it looking this way.

 

B) Renovate the station and wall off the remaining eastern platform. But I don't see this happening because, like I said above, its art. And members of the realized the mistakes made when re-tiling the Broadway Line and 4th Avenue Line stations and those involved actually regretted it.

So why have they never restored the original tiles like the stations in Manhattan?

[LTA1992]

So why have they never restored the original tiles like the stations in Manhattan?

Don't know. They returned 28th, 23rd, 8th, and Prince Streets to their (mostly) original tile work, so it's a start. Maybe when they begin to renovate the lower Broadway Line and 4th Avenue Line, they can take off the 1970s-era tiling.

Edited February 28, 2016 by LTA1992

[Wallyhorse]

Don't know. They returned 28th, 23rd, 8th, and Prince Streets to their (mostly) original tile work, so it's a start. Maybe when they begin to renovate the lower Broadway Line and 4th Avenue Line, they can take off the 1970s-era tiling.

Cortlandt as well.  Canal Street I believe is a modified version of the original tiling. 

[trainfanrod]

They need to close it and run trains to Canal and direct people to use the and

[trainfanrod]

They need to close it and run trains to Canal and direct people to use the and

[P3F]

People do actually use the station... Closing it would be a great inconvenience to those who use it.

[bobtehpanda]

Propoal: Close Hewes, and build a new Lorimer Street station at the other end of the existing one so that it stretches between Union and Lorimer. A transfer may be built with Broadway .

[RollOver]

Propoal: Close Hewes, and build a new Lorimer Street station at the other end of the existing one so that it stretches between Union and Lorimer. A transfer may be built with Broadway .

Quite similar to the one I proposed lol.

Edited March 1, 2016 by RollOver

[bobtehpanda]

Quite similar to the one I proposed lol.

 

The proposal has been kicking around since 1968; it's not actually that original at all.

[CenSin]

With an eye towards the future, it may be wiser to create a new Brooklyn trunk paralleling the Jamaica line. One end would be connected to 2 Avenue (which has 2 center tracks for that specific purpose), and the other end would be connected to a Utica Avenue Line, which is also needed.

 

Phase 1: Avenue U to Eastern Parkway

Phase 2: Eastern Parkway to Myrtle Avenue–Broadway

Phase 3: Myrtle Avenue–Broadway to Havemeyer Street

Phase 4: Havemeyer Street to 2 Avenue–East Houston Street

 

Phase 1 will contribute about 50% of the length of the line, but it won’t be much more useful until it reaches Phase 2, where it will connect passengers to the trains in addition to the . Phase 3 will create a connection to the , but not using the pre-built infrastructure as originally planned.

[bobtehpanda]

With an eye towards the future, it may be wiser to create a new Brooklyn trunk paralleling the Jamaica line. One end would be connected to 2 Avenue (which has 2 center tracks for that specific purpose), and the other end would be connected to a Utica Avenue Line, which is also needed.

 

Phase 1: Avenue U to Eastern Parkway

Phase 2: Eastern Parkway to Myrtle Avenue–Broadway

Phase 3: Myrtle Avenue–Broadway to Havemeyer Street

Phase 4: Havemeyer Street to 2 Avenue–East Houston Street

 

Phase 1 will contribute about 50% of the length of the line, but it won’t be much more useful until it reaches Phase 2, where it will connect passengers to the trains in addition to the . Phase 3 will create a connection to the , but not using the pre-built infrastructure as originally planned.

 

So something like this? An old proposal I made on my website had a relief line for the and Jamaica Line.

 

[Wallyhorse]

So something like this? An old proposal I made on my website had a relief line for the and Jamaica Line.

 

Did not see the "relief line" before.  This is an excellent idea.

 

This line could be built first with the line extension BUT with portions of platforms that are initially IRT that can be removed easily in a conversion to BMT (since this would likely be connected to the SAS), that can very easily work.

 

Such could go to a short-turn terminal at 42nd or 55th and 2nd (whichever station becoming what 72nd was supposed to be).  

[bobtehpanda]

Did not see the "relief line" before.  This is an excellent idea.

 

This line could be built first with the line extension BUT with portions of platforms that are initially IRT that can be removed easily in a conversion to BMT (since this would likely be connected to the SAS), that can very easily work.

 

Such could go to a short-turn terminal at 42nd or 55th and 2nd (whichever station becoming what 72nd was supposed to be).  

 

Why would a short turn be necessary?

[CenSin]

Why would a short turn be necessary?

Every plan that has been made always featured short-turns. The only thing stopping them from being implemented is money. The Second Avenue Line will be one of those few lines to not feature any place to turn or store trains along its length—I expect any planned storage or short-turn capabilities to be dropped for phases 2, 3, and 4 to save money.

 

Obviously, triple-tracked and quadruple-tracked lines will have the ability to turn trains without wrong-railing on tracks being used for through service. But most mainly double-tracked lines also have such capability due to a smattering of stations with pocket tracks:

• Canarsie Line () at Myrtle–Wyckoff Streets and formerly Atlantic Avenue
• Jamaica Line () at Crescent Street and 111 Street
• Myrtle Avenue Line () formerly at Myrtle–Wyckoff Streets
• Crosstown Line () at Bedford–Nostrand Avenues
• New Lots Avenue Line () potentially

These and most triple-tracked and quadruple-tracked stations offer operational flexibility that’s often taken for granted. And while it’s true that a double-tracked line can turn trains too with just a switch, its stations cannot operate as both terminals and through stations without reducing frequency.

[bobtehpanda]

Every plan that has been made always featured short-turns. The only thing stopping them from being implemented is money. The Second Avenue Line will be one of those few lines to not feature any place to turn or store trains along its length—I expect any planned storage or short-turn capabilities to be dropped for phases 2, 3, and 4 to save money.

 

Obviously, triple-tracked and quadruple-tracked lines will have the ability to turn trains without wrong-railing on tracks being used for through service. But most mainly double-tracked lines also have such capability due to a smattering of stations with pocket tracks:

• Canarsie Line ( ) at Myrtle–Wyckoff Streets and formerly Atlantic Avenue
• Jamaica Line ( ) at Crescent Street and 111 Street
• Myrtle Avenue Line ( ) formerly at Myrtle–Wyckoff Streets
• Crosstown Line ( ) at Bedford–Nostrand Avenues
• New Lots Avenue Line ( ) potentially

These and most triple-tracked and quadruple-tracked stations offer operational flexibility that’s often taken for granted. And while it’s true that a double-tracked line can turn trains too with just a switch, its stations cannot operate as both terminals and through stations without reducing frequency.

 

I understand, but my question was more about that specific use case: what would be the point of turning trains from Utica at some arbitrary point in Midtown, rather than having them proceed to the Bronx? It's not as if service from the southern end of SAS is going to overload the trunk, and if trains can't proceed through to uptown and the Bronx for some operational reason there is no functional difference between turning at a two-track terminal or a three-track terminal in Midtown. At least 72 St made sense, because the could just terminate there once the was up and running.

[Caelestor]

A New Program for Action:

 

Second Avenue Subway: Assuming phases 1, 2, and 3 are built, with room for changes in Phase 4 onwards

• 2 northern branches: 125th St line, 3rd St / Webster Ave / MNR ROW line (exact route undetermined)
• Southern branches undetermined
• Three services: , ,
• : Fordham to Coney Island via Broadway express, provision for extension north to Bedford Park Blvd or east along Fordham Road
• : Manhattanville / 125th St (Broadway) to Lower Manhattan, provision for extension into Brooklyn
• : See section below

Queens Bypass: Extension of 63rd St line along LIRR row to Forest Hills - 71 Ave. Not calling the line a superexpress because a few key transfer stations should be built. Two services:  ,  .

• Sunnyside - 39th St: Potential station to serve projected development at the Sunnyside Yards, potential transfer to future Sunnyside LIRR / MNR station
• Woodside - 61st St: Transfer to the and LIRR
• 51st Ave: Potential station to connect to Triboro RX / extension along the Bay Ridge branch
• Woodhaven Blvd - Rego Park: Transfer station for the Rockaway branch
• Forest Hills - 71 Ave: Express station below existing station, connects to existing tracks at Union Turnpike.
•  runs between Jamaica / 179 St and Coney Island via 6th Ave, 63rd St / Queens Bypass. Express east of Union Turnpike on weekdays, local all other times.
• runs the same route, serving local stations east of Forest Hills on weekdays.
• now runs express between Queens Plaza and Forest Hills, and local to Jamaica / 179 St.
• re-extended to Forest Hills to provide local service.

Rockaway Branch: Reactivation of the ROW for direct Midtown service via 63rd St. Three new stations at Metropolitan Ave, Jamaica Ave, and Atlantic Ave.

•  via Fulton St: Redirected to Rockaway Beach, Replaces Rockaway  shuttle
•  via Queens Bypass: New service from Far Rockaway via Rockaway Branch, Queens Bypass / 63rd St, and 2nd Ave to Lower Manhattan.

Extension: Phase 1 of potential Triboro RX line. Extend the past Middle Village into Queens

• Eliot Ave (optional)
• 51st Ave: Transfer to the ,
• Roosevelt Ave (Phase 2): Free transfer available to either 69 St or 75 St - Roosevelt Ave.

Brooklyn extensions still under planning. Ignoring costs, comments welcome.

[Trainmaster5]

A New Program for Action:

 

Second Avenue Subway: Assuming phases 1, 2, and 3 are built, with room for changes in Phase 4 onwards

• 2 northern branches: 125th St line, 3rd St / Webster Ave / MNR ROW line (exact route undetermined)
• Southern branches undetermined
• Three services: , ,
• : Fordham to Coney Island via Broadway express, provision for extension north to Bedford Park Blvd or east along Fordham Road
• : Manhattanville / 125th St (Broadway) to Lower Manhattan, provision for extension into Brooklyn
• : See section below

Queens Bypass: Extension of 63rd St line along LIRR row to Forest Hills - 71 Ave. Not calling the line a superexpress because a few key transfer stations should be built. Two services:  ,  .

• Sunnyside - 39th St: Potential station to serve projected development at the Sunnyside Yards, potential transfer to future Sunnyside LIRR / MNR station
• Woodside - 61st St: Transfer to the and LIRR
• 51st Ave: Potential station to connect to Triboro RX / extension along the Bay Ridge branch
• Woodhaven Blvd - Rego Park: Transfer station for the Rockaway branch
• Forest Hills - 71 Ave: Express station below existing station, connects to existing tracks at Union Turnpike.
•  runs between Jamaica / 179 St and Coney Island via 6th Ave, 63rd St / Queens Bypass. Express east of Union Turnpike on weekdays, local all other times.
• runs the same route, serving local stations east of Forest Hills on weekdays.
• now runs express between Queens Plaza and Forest Hills, and local to Jamaica / 179 St.
• re-extended to Forest Hills to provide local service.

Rockaway Branch: Reactivation of the ROW for direct Midtown service via 63rd St. Three new stations at Metropolitan Ave, Jamaica Ave, and Atlantic Ave.

•  via Fulton St: Redirected to Rockaway Beach, Replaces Rockaway  shuttle
•  via Queens Bypass: New service from Far Rockaway via Rockaway Branch, Queens Bypass / 63rd St, and 2nd Ave to Lower Manhattan.

 

Brooklyn extensions still under planning. Ignoring costs, comments welcome.

Quick question for you and any RTO folks. Wouldn't your proposed service from Far Rock via the Rockaway Branch take more time to reach Lower Manhattan than the present day from Far Rock via Fulton St? Just askin'. Carry on.

[Caelestor]

Quick question for you and any RTO folks. Wouldn't your proposed service from Far Rock via the Rockaway Branch take more time to reach Lower Manhattan than the present day from Far Rock via Fulton St? Just askin'. Carry on.

 

It would, but the idea is that more people are traveling to Midtown, so the Rockaway Branch service would be more popular than the Fulton St service. Of course, surveys would be needed to determine which is actually the case, and it's totally feasible to switch the and terminals to accommodate them.

[mike198450]

Here is a strip map of my proposed (8) line. Enjoy!

[BDNQ2345]

how do you make it?