Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Bosco]

Explain?

 

1. More service is needed for Broadway Local, 4 Avenue, and Astoria (though the rolling stock won't be available probably until the R211s come in).  This would help out the and , the latter of which is notoriously unreliable.

 

2. Even if the MTA had more trains, Whitehall does not have the capacity to turn more trains per hour.  Terminating the at 9 Avenue solves this problem.

[pringle5095]

So, if I have a fantasy subway (an entire subway), do I post here or on a new thread?

[CenSin]

Because I'm sure there will be those who want any new line that serves Howard Beach (closest station to the Airport) and the Casino at Aqueduct to serve lower Manhattan that some still consider to be "The Financial District" even if we know better. 

One direct route to lower Manhattan:

 

Two is a luxury, and that second option will be quite a roundabout option to get to lower Manhattan. How does that even make sense?

[Caelestor]

1. More service is needed for Broadway Local, 4 Avenue, and Astoria (though the rolling stock won't be available probably until the R211s come in).  This would help out the and , the latter of which is notoriously unreliable.

 

2. Even if the MTA had more trains, Whitehall does not have the capacity to turn more trains per hour.  Terminating the at 9 Avenue solves this problem.

 

1. Broadway isn't actually running at capacity, since the takes up slots on both the local and express tracks. Sending some more trains to 96 St and converting Astoria trains to trains will increase capacity.
2. Instead of terminating the at 9 Ave and messing up the switches on the 4 Ave line, the MTA could run more rush-hour only trains (one trip from Gravesend to Astoria via Whitehall St and return trip back).

[Wallyhorse]

One direct route to lower Manhattan:

 

Two is a luxury, and that second option will be quite a roundabout option to get to lower Manhattan. How does that even make sense?

If you didn't have the potential issue of politically having to have any RBB train also serve "The Financial District," having that train perhaps be either an running 24/7 from Metropolitan to Rockaway Park or perhaps a new train running from 2nd Avenue to Rockaway Park (possibly a scenario where the runs outside of rush hours and during rush hours, the runs on the RBB to Rockaway Park) would make more sense.  There just is that thorny issue of politics that I suspect would play into this and why I proposed doing it by shifting the and on the northern end and making both 24/7 lines.

[Lawrence St]

What stations would you build along the RBB? Would your keep the same stations that were already there?

[Fresh Pond]

So, if I have a fantasy subway (an entire subway), do I post here or on a new thread?

You post it in here

[biGC323232]

If you didn't have the potential issue of politically having to have any RBB train also serve "The Financial District," having that train perhaps be either an running 24/7 from Metropolitan to Rockaway Park or perhaps a new train running from 2nd Avenue to Rockaway Park (possibly a scenario where the runs outside of rush hours and during rush hours, the runs on the RBB to Rockaway Park) would make more sense.  There just is that thorny issue of politics that I suspect would play into this and why I proposed doing it by shifting the and on the northern end and making both 24/7 lines.

How would the   get to rockaway park from Metropolitian????  

[Around the Horn]

If you didn't have the potential issue of politically having to have any RBB train also serve "The Financial District," having that train perhaps be either an running 24/7 from Metropolitan to Rockaway Park or perhaps a new train running from 2nd Avenue to Rockaway Park (possibly a scenario where the runs outside of rush hours and during rush hours, the runs on the RBB to Rockaway Park) would make more sense.  There just is that thorny issue of politics that I suspect would play into this and why I proposed doing it by shifting the and on the northern end and making both 24/7 lines.

 

There is no political issue, and even if there was the  would be perfectly fine for the role. No reason to move the  around.

[P3F]

How would the get to rockaway park from Metropolitian????

6 Av & Queens Blvd

[biGC323232]

6 Av & Queens Blvd

Again....Coming from metro How can a   go to Rocaway Pk w/o reversing directions??

[CenSin]

If you didn't have the potential issue of politically having to have any RBB train also serve "The Financial District," having that train perhaps be either an running 24/7 from Metropolitan to Rockaway Park or perhaps a new train running from 2nd Avenue to Rockaway Park (possibly a scenario where the runs outside of rush hours and during rush hours, the runs on the RBB to Rockaway Park) would make more sense.  There just is that thorny issue of politics that I suspect would play into this and why I proposed doing it by shifting the and on the northern end and making both 24/7 lines.

The idea itself has merit: to truncate the to South Ferry–Whitehall Street after extending it to Howard Beach or the Rockaways and extending the to Bay Ridge–95 Street to make the routes’ lengths reasonable. But you probably confused many of us with the letter changes. It’s just that the “thorny” politics you described isn’t likely to exist. There shouldn’t be any political issues since it’s not like the Rockaways would be left with a dearth of options for accessing midtown and lower Manhattan. The runs through both, is express, and connects to all of the north-south trunks in Manhattan. The “pols” would have a very weak case to defend.

[CenSin]

Again....Coming from metro How can a   go to Rocaway Pk w/o reversing directions??

Background information:

The Rockaway branch would be joined to Queens Boulevard at 63 Drive–Rego Park. The physical provisions are already there to connect the Rockaway branch to the local tracks east of the station.

[biGC323232]

Background information:

The Rockaway branch would be joined to Queens Boulevard at 63 Drive–Rego Park. The physical provisions are already there to connect the Rockaway branch to the local tracks east of the station.

Gotcha......

[T to Dyre Avenue]

If you didn't have the potential issue of politically having to have any RBB train also serve "The Financial District..."

That issue exists...only in your mind.

 

Extending the or is both practical and political feasible. The doesn't need to go back to Astoria and the doesn't need to go to Queens Blvd 24/7. The doesn't need to be brought back to have an RBB service, because the can accomplish exactly the same thing.

Edited February 21, 2017 by T to Dyre Avenue

[MysteriousBtrain]

I'm just curious.... Do any of you guys know about the massive work that would need to be done to reactivate the Rockaway line? And I'm not just talking about taking down the trees.

 

There are 3 parking lots that reside on the row, two around the Union Turnpike area, and the other south of Atlantic Av. There may be a few more areas that reside on the row as well. In order to completely reactivate it, you either need to move and/or tear down those lots and rebuild those sections or make parts of those sections a subway/higher in elevation.

 

Not trying to destroy this line with NIMBYism or whatever, but it seems this line needs more study and less work to have this line a reality.

[P3F]

The parking lots are of questionable legality. Since the city still owns the ROW, it is easy to evict anybody who has encroached upon it.

[bobtehpanda]

Yeah, squatters' rights aren't really a thing, especially not in regards to something like a parking lot.

 

 

While nearly all states have laws around squatters rights, or adverse possession, New York added a unique requirement to its adverse possession claims in 2008, stating that in order to have a claim, the squatter must hold "a reasonable belief that he has title to the disputed property," according to the Touro Law Review. This prohibits a squatter from benefiting by intentionally trespassing on someone else's property.

Further, New York's laws require that a squatter must make improvements to the property in the form of structural encroachments, says the Touro Law Review. This means that a squatter does not meet the requirements for adverse possession if he is simply mowing the lawn or building a fence.

[Wallyhorse]

The parking lots are of questionable legality. Since the city still owns the ROW, it is easy to evict anybody who has encroached upon it.

Right.  Anyone who has stuff on the ROW have done so illegally.  They can easily be evicted, and that to me is the real fear of the RBB being reactivated for subway use.

 

The would actually make sense and make that line 24/7 as well running Metropolitan Avenue to Rockaway Park, and maybe as part of doing so also serve as Phase 1 of lengthening ALL Eastern Division station platforms to 600' so the and eventually and can use 10-car trains (as it is, most of them can actually use nine-car trains since most were built to handle eight-car trains of standards that per car were 67' in length).  .

[P3F]

Speaking of lengthening platforms, the main problem with connecting the to the with a transfer is that neither Hewes nor Lorimer Street is right above Union Avenue. Well... why not simply extend one of those stations' platforms to 600 feet? That would bring it closer to Union Avenue so a connection would be easier to build, and also be progress in terms of upgrading the Eastern Division.

[Wallyhorse]

Speaking of lengthening platforms, the main problem with connecting the to the with a transfer is that neither Hewes nor Lorimer Street is right above Union Avenue. Well... why not simply extend one of those stations' platforms to 600 feet? That would bring it closer to Union Avenue so a connection would be easier to build, and also be progress in terms of upgrading the Eastern Division.

That would be part of my plan as well.  Building a new station where they meet the , if possible using some of the existing platforms of one of the two stations to do it.  

[Fresh Pond]

Right. Anyone who has stuff on the ROW have done so illegally. They can easily be evicted, and that to me is the real fear of the RBB being reactivated for subway use.

 

The would actually make sense and make that line 24/7 as well running Metropolitan Avenue to Rockaway Park, and maybe as part of doing so also serve as Phase 1 of lengthening ALL Eastern Division station platforms to 600' so the and eventually and can use 10-car trains (as it is, most of them can actually use nine-car trains since most were built to handle eight-car trains of standards that per car were 67' in length). .

Making everything run 600' trains in the east is more than just extending platforms...

 

Switches and signals would have to be relocated, and in certain places (Bway Junction & Rockaway Pkwy come to mind), it's just outright infeasible. Not to mention all of the yards would have to be reconfigured to handle them.

 

The barn at ENY has to be extended, along with all of the layup tracks. The deck can definitely hold 10 (possibly 12) cars, but the track layout in the lower yard has to be reconfigured. And given the space there (a street on one side and the bus depot on the other side), the yard footprint isn't big enough for it.

 

Fresh Pond yard has no room for an extension with the bus depot surrounding it, Canarsie barely has room, but it'll be a tight fit.

 

This is one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" problems.

[Lawrence St]

Well this is one of those problems, because people along the ROW have to walk and use buses to get where they need to do. Why not make it easier and rebuilt it to fix that problem?

[pringle5095]

Fantasy Subway Update: I have mapped out all the IRT Expansions: This includes the expanded lines and stations, as well as the routes traversed by present day ones. What do you think of my ideas? 

 

Link to IRT Expansion Map: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Q5tHUU65Zntrye2B06quEIL-I7M&usp=sharing

[bobtehpanda]

It's not public.

Well this is one of those problems, because people along the ROW have to walk and use buses to get where they need to do. Why not make it easier and rebuilt it to fix that problem?

 

The Eastern Division has some of the shortest distances between stops, especially the . Extending platforms to run a grand total of two extra cars is not really going to make anyone walk any shorter.