Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[mrsman]

It certainly true that people are favoring 57th as a subway corridor because it is a wider street.  And it really  is close to practically every trunk subway line, except      as it is conceivable to make transfers from it to every 57th or 59th street station in the system. 

I would only favor connecting this to NJ if there was full fare integration between subway and PATH, because I think 57th is more valuable as a corridor to serve Queens, since a 57th line could potentially service Queens Plaza, especially if the  is displaced from Queens Blvd. 

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

What about a 116th Street line to LaGuardia? It would take a load off the M60 and maybe bring the subway to Randall's Island!

[mrsman]

17 hours ago, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

What about a 116th Street line to LaGuardia? It would take a load off the M60 and maybe bring the subway to Randall's Island!

Is that supposed to be a branch off the 2nd Ave line?

[Jova42R]

On 6/16/2020 at 1:44 PM, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

What about a 116th Street line to LaGuardia? It would take a load off the M60 and maybe bring the subway to Randall's Island!

 

6 hours ago, mrsman said:

Is that supposed to be a branch off the 2nd Ave line?

I proposed this as an  a while back, and let me tell you something: There isn't gonna be a subway tunnel north of 86th anytime soon. There is an active fault line right there (hence why SAS is a deepbore tunnel). However, using the Wards Island Bridge as a subway or LRT bridge, then connecting either to Astoria or the South bronx isn't a shoddy idea - you'd just have to figure out how to put trains on the RFK bridge (with LRT, this isn't a problem, you can widen the shoulders and put the trains there). Also, where would the Bronx end of the line go?

I'll post a map of what a "Triboro" LRT could look like soon (my Bronx branch would go to Yankee Stadium, as that hits all the major hubs of the South Bronx)

Edited June 17, 2020 by Jova42R

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

23 hours ago, Jova42R said:

Also, where would the Bronx end of the line go?

Probably up 3rd or Melrose, then turn westward at Claremont Pkwy.

[Jova42R]

2 minutes ago, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

Probably up 3rd or Melrose, then turn westward at Claremont Pkwy.

yea true. Still working on that map,so hold on. One MASSIVE flaw, however, is that for the Queens span of the RFK and the Wards Island Bridge is that they are really only wide enough for a single track. With the RFK, sure, we could widen it, but not sure about the Wards Island. The Wards Island bridge is 12 ft wide, that is wide enough for two just-under-5-ft-wide tracks, but are there trams that are less than 6 ft wide? because the maximum you could have safely is probably 5.5 ft.

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

I am making a map for it rn, I'l post it later.

[Jova42R]

4 minutes ago, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

I am making a map for it rn, I'l post it later.

Ok. Would it utilize the Wards Island Bridge or not?

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

Brand New SUbway Screenshot  

Hope this works!

[Jova42R]

2 minutes ago, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

Brand New SUbway Screenshot  

Hope this works!

I can't access it. I'll also post a screenshot.

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

Darn.. 

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

23 hours ago, Jova42R said:

my Bronx branch would go to Yankee Stadium, as that hits all the major hubs of the South Bronx

That reminds me, maybe the  should create either a subway or a bus route that shuttles between the Yankee Stadium  stop and the Yankee Stadium MNR stop.

[shiznit1987]

Customer service idea: 

In stations, have a digital map that shows the layout of the system in real time, thus reflecting G.Os, closures, reroutes and other obstacles. Would make life a lot easier. 

[Lex]

29 minutes ago, shiznit1987 said:

Customer service idea: 

In stations, have a digital map that shows the layout of the system in real time, thus reflecting G.Os, closures, reroutes and other obstacles. Would make life a lot easier. 

It would.

It would also be damn near impossible to maintain.

[CenSin]

13 hours ago, Lex said:

It would.

It would also be damn near impossible to maintain.

I’m skeptical of that claim. The software would need to maintain the following template data (a one-time cost assuming new tunnels/roads are rarely built and existing tunnels/roads don’t get demolished often):

• Street map (which Google, Bing, and Open Street Maps have all managed to do) for bus data
• Revenue service track map (essentially the rail version of Google Maps)
  • Usability flag indicating whether a segment is in-service)
• Corridors, which include:
  • Platforms
  • Stairs
  • Escalators
  • Elevators
  • Turnstiles
  • Street-level entrances/exits
  • Wheelchair accessibility flags for paths

The system would interface with CBTC/ATS as well as human beings to keep the everchanging bits up-to-date:

• whether a track is occupied by a train, what the average throughput is at the moment, etc.
• whether any platforms are closed (such as due to FDNY activity)
• whether any elevators have gone out-of-service
• whether turnstiles have been shutdown for the night and only HEETs are available at a particular entrance

The system would actually make administration easier. Instead of writing error-prone messages manually on the MTA website, all they have to do is drill down in the console and push the toggle button that corresponds to the element with/without a problem. The software would automatically generate the messages and travel alternatives based on real-time data and predictive algorithms.

It’s the upfront work that is massive. A team has to create the graph that links millions of nodes together. The street data is already available (and requires only algorithmic conversion to the target format), so that is out of the way. The remaining work to be done involves IDing all the traversable elements in the subway system, tagging them with properties, and linking them together. A lot of the scattershot communication that the MTA is currently doing can be refocused on keeping the system updated with real-time data—and it would be less manpower and produce more accurate, standardized results.

[B35 via Church]

15 hours ago, Lex said:

It would.

It would also be damn near impossible to maintain.

I simply don't think the MTA would maintain it.

[Lex]

2 hours ago, CenSin said:

stuff

I hope you realize that the human element can easily confound things on multiple fronts.

[CenSin]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

I hope you realize that the human element can easily confound things on multiple fronts.

Your expectations are really low then… I mean, at the very least, a person (Vanshnookenraggen?) can single-handedly put together a track map of the NYC area with arcane historical footnotes. Even though it’s not perfect, we’ve got peer review to catch the discrepancies. This is also *upfront* work we’re talking about; it’s nothing like trying to get 100% on a moving target.

[R10 2952]

34 minutes ago, CenSin said:

Your expectations are really low then… I mean, at the very least, a person (Vanshnookenraggen?) can single-handedly put together a track map of the NYC area with arcane historical footnotes. Even though it’s not perfect, we’ve got peer review to catch the discrepancies. This is also *upfront* work we’re talking about; it’s nothing like trying to get 100% on a moving target.

Low expectations? How much can we really expect from an agency that can't even give station platforms a decent power-wash? Has taken 6 decades to come around to the idea of redesigning bus routes to be more efficient? Ordered hi-tech subway cars in the '70s but couldn't even keep the existing fleet clean and properly maintained?

The only surprise from the bozos in TA management is when they manage to get something done right.

[Lex]

2 hours ago, CenSin said:

Your expectations are really low then… I mean, at the very least, a person (Vanshnookenraggen?) can single-handedly put together a track map of the NYC area with arcane historical footnotes. Even though it’s not perfect, we’ve got peer review to catch the discrepancies. This is also *upfront* work we’re talking about; it’s nothing like trying to get 100% on a moving target.

You compared something static (at best, changes happen occasionally) to something dynamic (changes happen often and are unpredictable).

To make matters worse, the comparison involves a hobby that can be addressed at any convenient moment (no pressure) and a public service that must go through the chain of command (plenty of pressure).

Like all things, real-time tracking requires the data to be available in the first place, so there will still be a delay between something happening and making the relevant information available. Depending on how things play out, an issue can be resolved in less than five minutes or well past 30. Worse still, some incidents will require intermodal trips, and trying to have a dynamic subway map reflect anything more than just the subway will quickly make it too busy (hell, it can get that way just by reflecting the subway's changes). The aforementioned chain of command will only serve to complicate matters.

[shiznit1987]

Nice convo going about the digital map, I didn't know so much would go into it. 

Anyway, if we installed switches on both sides of Woodside-61st and Junction Blvd, could we have bi-directional service on weekends? 

 

[Lex]

2 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

Anyway, if we installed switches on both sides of Woodside-61st and Junction Blvd, could we have bi-directional service on weekends? 

I don't see the value in that.

[CenSin]

On 6/21/2020 at 6:46 PM, Lex said:

You compared something static (at best, changes happen occasionally) to something dynamic (changes happen often and are unpredictable).

I didn’t make that comparison. Please do point at the specific statements.

On 6/21/2020 at 6:46 PM, Lex said:

To make matters worse, the comparison involves a hobby that can be addressed at any convenient moment (no pressure) and a public service that must go through the chain of command (plenty of pressure).

I never denied it. I work in a job where everything I do has to be vetted. But that doesn’t preclude me from being productive. It just adds latency (which is pretty unimportant when dealing with static content). I’ve also witnessed first-hand how bureaucratic red tape stalls things that require quick turnaround times like tweets.

On 6/21/2020 at 6:46 PM, Lex said:

Like all things, real-time tracking requires the data to be available in the first place, so there will still be a delay between something happening and making the relevant information available. Depending on how things play out, an issue can be resolved in less than five minutes or well past 30. Worse still, some incidents will require intermodal trips, and trying to have a dynamic subway map reflect anything more than just the subway will quickly make it too busy (hell, it can get that way just by reflecting the subway's changes). The aforementioned chain of command will only serve to complicate matters.

If the MTA can operate a Twitter account and Bus Time, then it can also do what I proposed. There will always be a delay from the moment the first person realizes that the elevator is stuck to the first person working for the MTA to receive a report of the problem.

[mrsman]

Stuff like this already happens on highways.  You can pull up Google Maps or waze and see that construction and accidents get reported and you can see the exact locations of such incidents.  No reason that something similar couldn't be shown on a digital map and on the MTA's website. 

Whether the MTA is interested in developing this (or working with a contractor to develop this) is another story.

[bobtehpanda]

On 6/24/2020 at 4:15 AM, mrsman said:

Stuff like this already happens on highways.  You can pull up Google Maps or waze and see that construction and accidents get reported and you can see the exact locations of such incidents.  No reason that something similar couldn't be shown on a digital map and on the MTA's website. 

Whether the MTA is interested in developing this (or working with a contractor to develop this) is another story.

Google is a large, profitable multi-billion dollar company that lives and breathes tech and relies on partnerships with DOTs, individual commuters, and millions of phones with their software. They didn't do this as a charity.

None of these things is true of the MTA.