Jump to content


Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
W4ST

Redesign a Line

Recommended Posts

Three tracks on IRT Nostrand; three tracks on Canarsie; redo uptown Broadway with three through tracks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Can you elaborate on that please? 

All are two-track lines. Third track means either express service is an option, or disabled trains can be bypassed easily.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(C) to Rockaway Park, Leff Blvd, Far Rockaway

(B) to 21 Street- Queensbridge

(2) to Bowling Green \

And the (T) be ready already... late nights the (W) can go up to 96th and go down to Hanover Square

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/1/2019 at 5:48 PM, R62A7TrainFan said:

(C) to Rockaway Park, Leff Blvd, Far Rockaway

(B) to 21 Street- Queensbridge

(2) to Bowling Green \

And the (T) be ready already... late nights the (W) can go up to 96th and go down to Hanover Square

You would have the (W) serve Second Avenue late nights instead of the (T)?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Make the segment under 149th street in the Bronx into 3 tracks instead of 2. Build a second "flyover" north of east 180th street so that the (2) and (5) tracks never have to cross each other during PM rush hours.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would put the Nevins st-Atlantic Ave. interlocking between Court Street-borough Hall and Hoyt Street so the (4)(5) trains can stop at Hoyt street. In addition to that, have the court st. (2)(3) station on 1 level with a single island platform.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, if I were going to do this there are so many things I'd do that they'd take up a full page; the big one, though, would be turning any and all at-grade junctions into flying junctions, and reconfiguring all junctions such that trains didn't ever have to cross in front of each other

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, bear with me, but this is going to get real crayon-y.

BRONX:

Swap the (2)(5) and (6) . This Pelham Line cuts from Westchester > 163rd > Westchester. This WPR stays on Southern. Hunts Point Av is a major transfer station on the scale of Jackson Heights.

Lexington Av Local - (6) to Wakefield and <6> to Dyre. 

Lexington Av Express - (4) to Woodlawn and (5) to BPK.

Seventh Av Express - (3) to Parkchester and (2) express to PBP.

WESTERN QUEENS/NORTH OF MIDTOWN:

60th St tunnel is four tracks. Flushing line is four tracks. They're connected and the entire thing is BMT. Local tracks take over the Whitestone Branch to Malba. Express tracks terminate at Broadway LIRR.

42nd St Line goes to Astoria.

53rd St is four tracks the entire length. The Sixth Avenue Line becomes the Queens Blvd local tracks. All four tracks head under Broadway, there is no express diversion via Northern. 63rd St does not exist in this timeline.

Crosstown line terminates at a lower level of Queens Plaza. Queensboro Plaza and Queens Plaza are one station.

DOWNTOWN MANHATTAN/DOWNTOWN BROOKLYN

Cranberry St tunnel is four tracks. But not in the way you'd think. Express tracks are 8th Av express and local tracks are Broadway local. There are platforms at Atlantic Barclays to connect with the BMT and IRT.

8th Av local goes over the Broadway Line south of Cortlandt St. After Montague there are two branches: the 4th Avenue local and the Myrtle Avenue elevated. Through service from the Nassau Street Line to Myrtle Av does not exist.

The Crosstown Line is an el using Manhattan Av, the BQE, and Bedford Av before joining up with the Franklin Av El, which is still ten cars long.

EASTERN BROOKLYN AND QUEENS

Instead of the Fulton Avenue Line replacing the Fulton El east of East New York, it replaces the Jamaica El. There are four tracks running from Downtown Brooklyn to Woodhaven Blvd. At this point, the express tracks go down the former Rockaway Beach Branch to the Rockaways. The local tracks proceed to Jamaica via Jamaica Avenue.

Downtown Jamaica looks very different. There are four tracks underneath Hillside; the Queens Blvd express runs onto the Hillside Av express. The Fulton/Jamaica local is the Hillside local. The Queens Blvd local runs underneath Jamaica Av and ends at 157/Liberty.

The Nassau St line runs over the Broadway el onto the three-tracked remains of the eastern Fulton Avenue El. There is no skip stop, but a <J> express from Lefferts Blvd runs during the peak hours.

And that concludes this episode of Wallyhorsin Around. Maybe I'll get bored and do a map of this.

  • LMAO! 1
  • Confused 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a few ideas on my mind:

As a weekday AM & PM Rush Hour (Q) commuter between 57 St-7 Av & Avenue U, I constantly deal with the horrid (N) merge at 34th St which will slow down my (Q) all the way to the bridge going south or stop us at 28th St on the express track going north, not to mention it causes delays on both the (R) and (W). Also god forbid there'd be a (B) merging in front of the (Q) on the bridge going south, with all the timers, curves and insanely slow speed limits in the DeKalb Junction, this causes many gaps in service (Q) service south of DeKalb Av, when trains are supposed to run roughly 7 minutes apart but will go from 2-4 minute intervals to 13-16 minute intervals at times during rush hour. 

 

My plan would be to completely de-interline the Broadway Line and the DeKalb Junction during normal hours:

  • (N) 96 St-2 Av to Coney Island via Broadway-4 Av Express via Sea Beach Daily, 5:00 AM-12:00 AM. Late Nights, Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to Coney Island via Broadway-4 Av Local via Whitehall St.

 

  • (Q) 96 St-2 Av to Coney Island via Broadway-4 Av Express via West End (B'way Local during late nights).

 

  • (W) Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to Whitehall St via Broadway Local, Daily 5:00 AM-12:00 AM. To compensate for the loss of the (N) in Astoria, the (W) will have to be bumped up to approximately 14 trains per hour (frequency roughly every 4-5 minutes, similar to the (F)) during peak-times. Unfortunately Whitehall St is not a sufficient terminus to accommodate 14 trains per hour and without proper fleet numbers to extend into Brooklyn, a couple of (W) will have to short-turn at Canal St (upper level) during peak-times.  

 

  • (D) 205 St-Norwood to Coney Island via 6 Av Express/Brighton Local.

 

Fleet Swaps/Changes: 

(D) 

R68: 240 (30 Sets)

+1 Set of R68 Spares during Rush Hour will be used.

(N)

R68: 8 (1 Set)

R160: 210 (21 Sets)

+1 Set of R68 Spares during Rush Hour will be used.

(Q) 

R68: 8 (1 Set)

R160: 210 (21 Sets)

(W) 

R68: 24 (3 Sets)

R160: 170 (17 Sets)

+5 Sets of R160 Spares during Rush Hour will be used.

Pros: 

  • Reduced congestion. 
  • Increased capacity.
  • Minimal delays (especially on the Manhattan Bridge, which can be an absolute nightmare).

Cons:

  • Astoria line loses Broadway Express service (although only 4 stops are skipped between 57 St-7 Av and Canal St, so not a huge loss).
  • Brighton line loses direct Broadway service. Transfers will have to be made at Atlantic Av-Barclays Center, DeKalb Av or 34 St-Herald Square.
  • West End & 4 Av Line loses direct 6 Av Service. Transfers will have to be made at Atlantic Av-Barclays Center, DeKalb Av or 34 St-Herald Square.

 

With this service pattern, there wouldn't be any interlining/merging of various lines, reducing delays and increasing capacity. 

Alternative Options:

  • Cut weekend (W) and replace it with (N) to Astoria-Ditmars Blvd via Broadway Local. However this may cause signage complications and confusion among people.

 

  • Keep the (D) via West End, replace Sea Beach service with the (B), Bedford Park Blvd/145 St-Coney Island, normal hours (96 St-2 Av late nights), providing Central Park West with weekend service. (N) Astoria-Whitehall St via Local, (Q)<Q> 96 St-2 Av to Brighton Beach/Coney Island, (W) eliminated. However extended (B) service during nights via 6 Av may be viewed as superfluous (unnecessary) & long time Sea Beach Riders likely wouldn't be to fond of losing (N) service. 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, R32s said:

I constantly deal with the horrid (N) merge at 34th St which will slow down my (Q) all the way to the bridge going south or stop us at 28th St on the express track going north, not to mention it causes delays on both the (R) and (W).

Me too... even when you're on the (N) it's frustrating going to Times Square. Can't do that unless you wait for the (R) and (W) to leave first, then delaying those trains as the (N) passes through.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

And that concludes this episode of Wallyhorsin Around. Maybe I'll get bored and do a map of this.

Please do, some of your proposals are confusing to me right now such as the Bronx IRT, the Jamaica portion of the subway, the BMT Flushing line, and the Cranberry/Fulton Area. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Q Broadway Express said:

This would be the best thread to submit ideas for deinterlining the New York City subway system.

We already have a thread to discuss Deinterlining in the NYC Subway system. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would re- design the 6th Avenue Line.

(B)  Norwood- 205th Street, Bronx

Coney Island- Stillwell Avenue (Weekdays Only) 5:30 AM- 9:30 PM via Brighton Express

Fleets: 

R68A, R68, R160A-2, R160B 

(D)  Norwood- 205th Street, Bronx

Church Avenue, Brooklyn (Weekends Only) 5 PM- 8:30 PM

**Extra Trains** 9th Avenue

All Times Coney Island- Stillwell Avenue

<D>  Same Destinations via Culver Express & West End Express

AM Rush to Bronx 5 AM 1st Train Departs Church Av and Coney Island

PM Rush to Brooklyn 2 PM (Coney Is.) Next train 2:03 PM (Church Avenue)

Fleets: 

R68/A, R160A-2, R160B, R32

(F)  Jamaica- 179th Street, Queens

PM Rush Trains to 62nd Street ( (D) ).

All times trains to Coney Island or preferable Kings Hwy.

<F>  2nd Avenue, Manhattan

Kings Hwy, Brooklyn

Runs in Both Directions 5 AM- 9 PM

Note: <F> will be a line cut short from LES to Kings Hwy. Stopping at LES, Delancey, E. Bway York St, Jay St, Smith 9th, 7th Av, and Kings Hwy. 

Also, since there is 1 middle track on McDonald's EL, the <F> will run to Kings Hwy from 5 AM- 10 AM and to Manhattan from 1 PM - 9 PM.

Fleets: 

R46, R160A-2, R160B, R179 8 Car Sets borrowed from the (C)

(M)  Jamaica Center, Queens (Required to replace (J) service from Crescent Street to Jamaica Center from Essex Street).

Middle Village All times

Forest Hills- 71st Avenue, Queens (Weekdays Only)

Has M Express from Essex to Metropolitan on (J) and (Z) skip- stop times.

Fleets:

R160A-1, R42, R32, R143, R179.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, R68ACTrain said:

I would re- design the 6th Avenue Line.

(B)  Norwood- 205th Street, Bronx

Coney Island- Stillwell Avenue (Weekdays Only) 5:30 AM- 9:30 PM via Brighton Express

Fleets: 

R68A, R68, R160A-2, R160B 

I'd say don't worry about fleet changes until the R211s come in. The R68s are perfectly fine for the time being.

(D)  Norwood- 205th Street, Bronx

Church Avenue, Brooklyn (Weekends Only) 5 PM- 8:30 PM 

What is with this oddly specific time frame?

**Extra Trains** 9th Avenue

Don't know if it would be necessary. The (D) already doesn't have frequent headways (10 tph max) which is largely due to DeKalb and the lack of new technology (CBTC)... some sort of deinterlining would have to be in play here.

All Times Coney Island- Stillwell Avenue

<D>  Same Destinations via Culver Express & West End Express

Same thing as above. The (D) only runs 10 tph max, and when considering limited service during the rush, the (MTA) likes one train to be local and the other going express... stupid planning but either way not enough trains. The key difference between express service on the (D) and on the (F) is that the (F) actually runs 15 tph during the rush.

AM Rush to Bronx 5 AM 1st Train Departs Church Av and Coney Island

PM Rush to Brooklyn 2 PM (Coney Is.) Next train 2:03 PM (Church Avenue)

Fleets: 

R68/A, R160A-2, R160B, R32

(F)  Jamaica- 179th Street, Queens

PM Rush Trains to 62nd Street ( (D) ).

If the (MTA) built that DeKalb-Rutgers connection, this would be more feasible. However, this service pattern implies switching, going into DeKalb, and providing extra service on the 4 Av Express that isn't necessarily needed, plus the trains would have to go through extra mileage just to get to Coney. I like the idea since the trains would have another place to terminate (alongside Stillwell and Kings Hwy); if anything, the (MTA) keeping the Culver Shuttle connection would be enormously more helpful, perhaps if they built that instead then we wouldn't be cramming for a solution about where to terminate (F) trains.

All times trains to Coney Island or preferable Kings Hwy.

<F>  2nd Avenue, Manhattan

Kings Hwy, Brooklyn

Runs in Both Directions 5 AM- 9 PM

Note: <F> will be a line cut short from LES to Kings Hwy. Stopping at LES, Delancey, E. Bway York St, Jay St, Smith 9th, 7th Av, and Kings Hwy. 

When the vast majority of people are going to/from Midtown, you're going to sacrifice additional wait times and good routing for express service?

Also, since there is 1 middle track on McDonald's EL, the <F> will run to Kings Hwy from 5 AM- 10 AM and to Manhattan from 1 PM - 9 PM.

Fleets: 

R46, R160A-2, R160B, R179 8 Car Sets borrowed from the (C)

(M)  Jamaica Center, Queens (Required to replace (J) service from Crescent Street to Jamaica Center from Essex Street).

Middle Village All times

Forest Hills- 71st Avenue, Queens (Weekdays Only)

Has M Express from Essex to Metropolitan on (J) and (Z) skip- stop times.

Which is exactly the same time that the (J) and (Z) use the express track... you'd have to modify service on the (J) also in order for this to work.

Fleets:

R160A-1, R42, R32, R143, R179.

Replies in bold.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, R68ACTrain said:

I would re- design the 6th Avenue Line.

(B)  Norwood- 205th Street, Bronx

Coney Island- Stillwell Avenue (Weekdays Only) 5:30 AM- 9:30 PM via Brighton Express

Fleets: 

R68A, R68, R160A-2, R160B 

(D)  Norwood- 205th Street, Bronx

Church Avenue, Brooklyn (Weekends Only) 5 PM- 8:30 PM

**Extra Trains** 9th Avenue

All Times Coney Island- Stillwell Avenue

<D>  Same Destinations via Culver Express & West End Express

AM Rush to Bronx 5 AM 1st Train Departs Church Av and Coney Island

PM Rush to Brooklyn 2 PM (Coney Is.) Next train 2:03 PM (Church Avenue)

Fleets: 

R68/A, R160A-2, R160B, R32

(F)  Jamaica- 179th Street, Queens

PM Rush Trains to 62nd Street ( (D) ).

All times trains to Coney Island or preferable Kings Hwy.

<F>  2nd Avenue, Manhattan

Kings Hwy, Brooklyn

Runs in Both Directions 5 AM- 9 PM

Note: <F> will be a line cut short from LES to Kings Hwy. Stopping at LES, Delancey, E. Bway York St, Jay St, Smith 9th, 7th Av, and Kings Hwy. 

Also, since there is 1 middle track on McDonald's EL, the <F> will run to Kings Hwy from 5 AM- 10 AM and to Manhattan from 1 PM - 9 PM.

Fleets: 

R46, R160A-2, R160B, R179 8 Car Sets borrowed from the (C)

(M)  Jamaica Center, Queens (Required to replace (J) service from Crescent Street to Jamaica Center from Essex Street).

Middle Village All times

Forest Hills- 71st Avenue, Queens (Weekdays Only)

Has M Express from Essex to Metropolitan on (J) and (Z) skip- stop times.

Fleets:

R160A-1, R42, R32, R143, R179.

What’s running on the West End Line with the (D) running to Church Avenue (currently served by the (F))? And what’s the purpose of running a <D> both via Culver and West End? 

The <F> service can’t terminate at 2nd Avenue (it’s 2nd Avenue, not “LES”; that’s shorthand for a neighborhood) because the crossover switches face the wrong way for trains coming from Brooklyn. Not to mention that the majority of (F) riders are headed to Midtown Manhattan and this <F> stops far short of Midtown. And you’ve got the (F) going only to 62nd Street (currently served by the (D)). So what’s serving the rest of the West End Line?

And what’s the point of the (M) replacing the (J)?

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would put a Harlem Shuttle running from 148 Street and 96 Street. This could allow the (3) to go into the the bronx and help out Jerome, White Plains or atleast run to Grand Concourse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Q23 via 108 said:

I would put a Harlem Shuttle running from 148 Street and 96 Street. This could allow the (3) to go into the the bronx and help out Jerome, White Plains or atleast run to Grand Concourse.

 

On 4/17/2019 at 9:25 PM, R68OnBroadway said:

Oh god not this (3) to Woodlawn sh*t again... people are obsessed with this project. Assuming we de-interline Rogers (which should happen ASAP given the crowding on Lexington and the delays it would prevent), you would have just killed all the gained capacity by interlining the (3)(4) again. Jerome has Grand Concourse next door for west side service and connecting the two lines by a junction would probably result in an inefficient flat junction or a slow underground one near the portal. People can just transfer at Yankee Stadium or Grand Concourse- the most I would do would be to add an infill station at 104th/Manhattan to connect to 103rd/CPW to reduce pressure on the (A)(D) at Columbus Circle.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 4/17/2019 at 9:25 PM, R68OnBroadway said:

delete

2 hours ago, Q23 via 108 said:
Edited by R68OnBroadway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2019 at 1:11 PM, R68OnBroadway said:

The (3) should stay at 148th... you don’t need to further limit capacity by interlining the (2)(3)(5) between 149th-Concourse and 180th. The (3) starting at 148 is there for a reason as it gives Harlem and the UWS emptier trains vs the crowded (2) from the Bronx. 

As for 145th, extending the platforms is not a priority (you’d probably extend them south), but it should happen eventually for operational simplicity if we can get OPTO.

 

2 hours ago, Q23 via 108 said:

I would put a Harlem Shuttle running from 148 Street and 96 Street. This could allow the (3) to go into the the bronx and help out Jerome, White Plains or atleast run to Grand Concourse.

(Sorry for the double post, I couldn’t edit in the second quote)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/10/2019 at 9:44 PM, Q Broadway Express said:

This would be the best thread to submit ideas for deinterlining the New York City subway system.

I'm very late, but this wasn't exactly the intention. The idea was what you would do if the trunk line had been built differently from the start, like: where would you put the express stations, and how many tracks would there be. Deinterlining could be included though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

What’s running on the West End Line with the (D) running to Church Avenue (currently served by the (F))? And what’s the purpose of running a <D> both via Culver and West End? 

The <F> service can’t terminate at 2nd Avenue (it’s 2nd Avenue, not “LES”; that’s shorthand for a neighborhood) because the crossover switches face the wrong way for trains coming from Brooklyn. Not to mention that the majority of (F) riders are headed to Midtown Manhattan and this <F> stops far short of Midtown. And you’ve got the (F) going only to 62nd Street (currently served by the (D)). So what’s serving the rest of the West End Line?

And what’s the point of the (M) replacing the (J)?

If you understand that this is a game- type topic where we can redesign line however we want. Don't be coming here with your "(it's 2nd Avenue, not "LES"; that's a shorthand for a neighborhood)" shit. Let's see if you understand an acronym. Lower stands for "L", East stands for "E", and Side stands for "S". What does "L", "E", and "S" put together???? Oh wait... "LES". OMG did I know that Lower East Side's acronym is LES? Besides, if you know what station I'm referring to, why does that affect you so much to say some unnecessary stuff.

  • LMAO! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, R68ACTrain said:

If you understand that this is a game- type topic where we can redesign line however we want. Don't be coming here with your "(it's 2nd Avenue, not "LES"; that's a shorthand for a neighborhood)" shit. Let's see if you understand an acronym. Lower stands for "L", East stands for "E", and Side stands for "S". What does "L", "E", and "S" put together???? Oh wait... "LES". OMG did I know that Lower East Side's acronym is LES? Besides, if you know what station I'm referring to, why does that affect you so much to say some unnecessary stuff.

Well, I see somebody’s in a friendly mood today...

On 4/22/2019 at 7:59 AM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

(it’s 2nd Avenue, not “LES”; that’s shorthand for a neighborhood)

Hey, I know what it stands for, too! See...?

Later for you...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.