Designing Bus Routes to Attract Passengers and Reverse the Decline in Ridership

[BrooklynBus]

Here is Part 1:

http://www.gothamgazette.com/opinion/8090-designing-bus-routes-to-attract-passengers-and-reverse-the-decline-in-ridership-part-one

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Here is Part 1:

http://www.gothamgazette.com/opinion/8090-designing-bus-routes-to-attract-passengers-and-reverse-the-decline-in-ridership-part-one

You make an excellent point about the schedules being realistic, and it's something that I raised to the planners during our meeting. What's funny is in some cases, there's too much run time, in the case some of the QM lines where buses run hot and can mean long waits as a result which deters ridership.

[BrooklynBus]

18 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You make an excellent point about the schedules being realistic, and it's something that I raised to the planners during our meeting. What's funny is in some cases, there's too much run time, in the case some of the QM lines where buses run hot and can mean long waits as a result which deters ridership.

And the thing is Byford stated on TV that he does not believe in adding run time just because buses get stuck in traffic. The implication was that we need more exclusive bus lanes and other measures so that buses can move faster. But those things do not happen over night and in the mean time the only thing that makes sense is for the schedules to be more realistic. The MTA opposes this because on paper it appear that it costs more to run the existing service. The MTA has to pay less attention to what looks good on paper and more attention to what us going on in the real world. 

The subject I forgot to mention in the articles is how much of the ridership decline is actually due to not adequately counting all the fare beaters. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

38 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

And the thing is Byford stated on TV that he does not believe in adding run time just because buses get stuck in traffic. The implication was that we need more exclusive bus lanes and other measures so that buses can move faster. But those things do not happen over night and in the mean time the only thing that makes sense is for the schedules to be more realistic. The MTA opposes this because on paper it appear that it costs more to run the existing service. The MTA has to pay less attention to what looks good on paper and more attention to what us going on in the real world. 

The subject I forgot to mention in the articles is how much of the ridership decline is actually due to not adequately counting all the fare beaters. 

Well I told them that they have got to start addressing the elephant in the room, which is congestion. Thursday's board meeting was one of the most upfront ones I've seen in a while where the agency started talking about particulars like congestion.

[B35 via Church]

Before anything involving anything hands-on (a la route designing/planning) is to be attempted, much less implemented, the MTA has to reverse the growing negative stigma that's plaguing it (much like the NYPD "tried" to do via social media some odd years ago).... It's customer relations is absolutely pathetic (and, pfft, don't get me started on how user-unfriendly the website is).... I say good luck with that one, they're going to need it....

I mean honestly, they have to bear in mind that it's not just us dissatisfied old NY natives complaining about the same old problems time & time again with this agency.... You got newcomers (gentrifiers, transients, however you wish to dub 'em) setting up businesses and/or residing in this city & from what I gather, they're of the same sentiments when it comes to the MTA as us "natives".... Sure you can't satisfy everybody, but it's as if they're doing the exact opposite to justify having less buses on the road.... Gotta trim that budget, right

I don't necessarily disagree with the pointers in the article, but at the same time, for these ridership losses to be reversed & to have buses running in this city the way that it needs to be (regardless of service type or any alterations to the network), you would (also) have to reverse the trend of people being so quick to jump in a cab... I suppose that it's good that some of you still have hope, but I don't remotely see that happening...

I'll use myself as an example as someone that no longer relies on the MTA to get to/from work.... I'm a proponent of talking with my feet (so to speak) & I'm not easily swayed.... There isn't anything the MTA can do to get me back into taking the LIRR to/from work on a 5-to-6 day a week basis... Tired of the mismanagement of the B12, tired of the constant damn delays/latenesses on the LIRR, tired of the malodorous homeless folks (as well as the beggars) on the subway in the mornings.... F*** that man - People have breaking points & AFAIC, when it comes to this agency's antics in this generation now, I've noticed people's tolerances are & have thinned - and the threats of getting around via some non-MTA operated entity aren't all that idle anymore....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Before anything involving anything hands-on (a la route designing/planning) is to be attempted, much less implemented, the MTA has to reverse the growing negative stigma that's plaguing it (much like the NYPD "tried" to do via social media some odd years ago).... It's customer relations is absolutely pathetic (and, pfft, don't get me started on how user-unfriendly the website is).... I say good luck with that one, they're going to need it....

I mean honestly, they have to bear in mind that it's not just us dissatisfied old NY natives complaining about the same old problems time & time again with this agency.... You got newcomers (gentrifiers, transients, however you wish to dub 'em) setting up businesses and/or residing in this city & from what I gather, they're of the same sentiments when it comes to the MTA as us "natives".... Sure you can't satisfy everybody, but it's as if they're doing the exact opposite to justify having less buses on the road.... Gotta trim that budget, right

I don't necessarily disagree with the pointers in the article, but at the same time, for these ridership losses to be reversed & to have buses running in this city the way that it needs to be (regardless of service type or any alterations to the network), you would (also) have to reverse the trend of people being so quick to jump in a cab... I suppose that it's good that some of you still have hope, but I don't remotely see that happening...

I'll use myself as an example as someone that no longer relies on the MTA to get to/from work.... I'm a proponent of talking with my feet (so to speak) & I'm not easily swayed.... There isn't anything the MTA can do to get me back into taking the LIRR to/from work on a 5-to-6 day a week basis... Tired of the mismanagement of the B12, tired of the constant damn delays/latenesses on the LIRR, tired of the malodorous homeless folks (as well as the beggars) on the subway in the mornings.... F*** that man - People have breaking points & AFAIC, when it comes to this agency's antics in this generation now, I've noticed people's tolerances are & have thinned - and the threats of getting around via some non-MTA operated entity aren't all that idle anymore....

The  will not be able to get back a number of riders even with this new congestion pricing scheme that the  has enacted for January to stop people from hopping in cabs.  Come January it will cost over $5.00 immediately after sitting in a taxi, not including the actual ride.  The people that can afford it will still use it though.  I personally will still use Uber Pool or Uber for meetings for sure so charging more will deter some, but the real answer is a cap.  The people on the edge may take fewer trips, but the subway has become so incredibly unbearable that I really try avoiding it on weekends.  When I visit clients in Brooklyn now from Manhattan, they are literally apologizing and trying to butter me up with food and drinks. lol Thing is they aren't even that deep into Brooklyn.  From 42nd street on weekends, it takes me a good hour or more to get over to the Prospect Park area.  Ridiculous. The  train to Brooklyn is knocked out every single weekend so it's local only and if you try to take an express to the local, the transfers take an eternity.  My rant basically shows that if the  just ran the express buses on-time and they moved ok, people would use them.  Cheaper than cabs and comfortable.  With the way that subway is declining, that is precisely why people are switching to the express bus in some cases to avoid the crawling trains and everything else that comes with that.

lol... You mentioned the homeless and beggars. They seem to be taking over the subway cars. I don't even ride much during the week, but on weekends, often times both going and coming, someone comes into the car hitting us up for money or playing music or some nonsense.  It's almost expected now.  Then when you're waiting on the platform, your head had better be on a swivel because you have crazies all over the place or someone begging.  I fault the City for this. We have too many mentally unstable people walking around and they need to be treated.  Instead de Blasio and his administration turns a blind eye and it's business as usual.

[LGA Link N Train]

Well, this article helped me with a Queens Bus Redesign Project that I've been thinking about. I've basically started and I'm lost. However, a few things that I'm aware of are that Flushing, Jamaica, LIC, Jackson Heights, and Rego Park all have a good set of bus connections, and I'd like to preserve that. Also, since the article mentions that Riders want a DIRECT route, is there a way to record this type of data or no?

All that aside, I'm open to suggestions to improve my map:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mWHKLnweZ6s1jEp9jEwOP7GibgIuBOfC&usp=sharing

[JeremiahC99]

46 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Well, this article helped me with a Queens Bus Redesign Project that I've been thinking about. I've basically started and I'm lost. However, a few things that I'm aware of are that Flushing, Jamaica, LIC, Jackson Heights, and Rego Park all have a good set of bus connections, and I'd like to preserve that. Also, since the article mentions that Riders want a DIRECT route, is there a way to record this type of data or no?

All that aside, I'm open to suggestions to improve my map:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mWHKLnweZ6s1jEp9jEwOP7GibgIuBOfC&usp=sharing

I like the Q66 extension to Columbus Circle. Really helps give direct service to Manhattan.

 

I would like to suggest to keep the Q46 the same, but make 6 Q46 LTD trips per hour Q46X trips. The route would run weekdays only and operate to the North Shore LIJ Terminal. Service would make LTD stops from LIJ to St Johns University, then non-stop to the subway at Queens Blvd. On weekends, new LTD service would operate to the LIJ Terminal. At all times except overnight, service local service would go to Glen Oaks, while LTD and Q46X service would go to LIJ, with stops consolidated (with walking distance considerations) east of 260th Street.

 

In addition, I also have a Brooklyn Bus Redesign map coming soon (this was delayed multiple times now). The proposals are based off the 2004 map that Allan Rosen (@BrooklynBus) made, with some modifications. Among them are the re-branding of some routes, new ACTUALLY WORKABLE SBS routes, and my own proposed extensions to adapt the proposals to present day Brooklyn needs (to better serve new traffic generators in Brooklyn and Queens such as Canarsie Plaza and Resorts Casino). One of the new SBS routes is his proposed B22 Belt Pkwy Limited route to JFK Airport. In my version, the route has been changed to accommodate a few additional stops along the Pkwy (such as Spring Creek Towers) and a consideration of adding park-and-rides at key locations such as at Kings Plaza and possibly at Gateway Mall, which are both transit hubs. The route will now be called the B34 and will an all new SBS route using specialized buses with luggage racks and BRT Features (bus fleet for this is the New Flyer XD60 and the route will be based out of East New York That is one of the proposed modifications. The rest will be on the map when it comes out.

[FLX9304]

Why extend the Q66 to Columbus Circle? You realize that leading to & fro is congested big time? One bus may never come back! That’s what the  are for

[B35 via Church]

I never liked that Q66 to Manhattan proposal from the second I heard about it - regardless if it's to be converted to SBS or not....

Not only do I think that the Q66 shouldn't set foot tires in Manhattan, there should be less trips even running to QBP throughout most of the day.... And on top of that, every Q60 trip does not need to run in Manhattan (that IMO is a significant part of the problem with the bunching it's prone to now).... Don't even get me started with the Q101, the crap service that route gets overall, and why in the world that has overnight service to East Midtown (Even though I think the 101 could use an overall headway boost, I'm sorry, but at best, that route should only run to Manhattan during rush hours only)....

[checkmatechamp13]

6 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I never liked that Q66 to Manhattan proposal from the second I heard about it - regardless if it's to be converted to SBS or not....

Not only do I think that the Q66 shouldn't set foot tires in Manhattan, there should be less trips even running to QBP throughout most of the day.... And on top of that, every Q60 trip does not need to run in Manhattan (that IMO is a significant part of the problem with the bunching it's prone to now).... Don't even get me started with the Q101, the crap service that route gets overall, and why in the world that has overnight service to East Midtown (Even though I think the 101 could use an overall headway boost, I'm sorry, but at best, that route should only run to Manhattan during rush hours only)....

Would just cutting back the Q60 entirely to QBP and having the Q32 be the sole Queens-Midtown route (with some added service) be a good idea?

[LGA Link N Train]

34 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Would just cutting back the Q60 entirely to QBP and having the Q32 be the sole Queens-Midtown route (with some added service) be a good idea?

Not really, no. If you were to cut back the Q60 to QBP, it would be MORE congested than it is now. If you were to cut back the Q60, at least end it somewhere in LIC. As for the Q32 being the sole Queens-Midtown bus. I'm not too keen on that. At least with the Q66 extension to Columbus circle, you'd have some type of backup for the whenever they get delayed.  (The congestion in Midtown sounds like a challenge of it's own and that sounds like something that and DOT should focus on resolving before getting to Queens for a bus network redesign) Besides. Bus service should be designed to attract Ridership. And (hopefully) get people off Uber/Lyft/etc. 

[Coney Island Av]

At the bare minimum, if there's anything to kick out of Manhattan, it's the Q101. It's much less utilized when compared to the Q32/Q60, and the  serves as an alternative for most of its route. It should be cut back to Queensboro Plaza. 

[LGA Link N Train]

42 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I never liked that Q66 to Manhattan proposal from the second I heard about it - regardless if it's to be converted to SBS or not....

Not only do I think that the Q66 shouldn't set foot tires in Manhattan, there should be less trips even running to QBP throughout most of the day.... And on top of that, every Q60 trip does not need to run in Manhattan (that IMO is a significant part of the problem with the bunching it's prone to now).... Don't even get me started with the Q101, the crap service that route gets overall, and why in the world that has overnight service to East Midtown (Even though I think the 101 could use an overall headway boost, I'm sorry, but at best, that route should only run to Manhattan during rush hours only)....

Ok, what else do you suggest? 

 

10 minutes ago, Coney Island Av said:

At the bare minimum, if there's anything to kick out of Manhattan, it's the Q101. It's much less utilized when compared to the Q32/Q60, and the  serves as an alternative for most of its route. It should be cut back to Queensboro Plaza. 

Alright, but Queensboro Plaza is congested 24/7, the Q101 would need to turn around at 21st Street to then start another run. An alternative solution should be considered but I'll put more thought into that later. 

[NewFlyer 230]

16 hours ago, Coney Island Av said:

At the bare minimum, if there's anything to kick out of Manhattan, it's the Q101. It's much less utilized when compared to the Q32/Q60, and the  serves as an alternative for most of its route. It should be cut back to Queensboro Plaza. 

Yeah I agree, I don’t know why the Q101 goes into Manhattan as it seems very redundant at this point. From the times I’ve fanned the Q60 and Q101 from Manhattan, the Q60 always gets the higher usage compared to the Q101. The latter usually picks up those that are going to QBP but either missed the Q60 or the Q60 has a gap in it’s service. I do think while MTA Bus has come a long ways from the times of the PBL, I still believe that there are many changes that should have been  made by now. It’s like they are too lazy to look into making some obvious improvements.  I’m hoping these upcoming bus redesign projects are taken more seriously than the Staten Island Express bus redesign was.

Just to name a few of some obvious changes that could have been made are; the elimination of the Q101 in Manhattan, rerouting the Q112 in Jamaica so it’s not backtracking east to then go west via Liberty Ave, eliminating the Q34 completely and fixing up the Q25 service with most old Q34 trips being “new Jamaica-Flushing Q25 short turns, more frequently weekday and weekend Q19 service and so on. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

18 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Would just cutting back the Q60 entirely to QBP and having the Q32 be the sole Queens-Midtown route (with some added service) be a good idea?

The Q60 gets good ridership from 2nd Avenue. I've been on evening buses that have been SRO from there (and the bus wasn't late). Perhaps ending some buses during the midday hours on the Queens side could work, but not entirely. If anything, a split should be done on that route. I would sughest more terminating the Q60 at Archer every day. That way, you can boost service on the Q6 (and perhaps provide all day LTD service that way). 

[Orion6025]

19 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Would just cutting back the Q60 entirely to QBP 

I rode the Q60 from QBP home almost every weekday from 2006-2012, and since then, whenever I'm on the upper east side, it has been my go-to way home from the Upper East side. Not once have I seen a line less than 15 people waiting to board that bus in the rush. And oftentimes there are old folks and wheelchair-bound passengers. The Q60 carries quite a bit leaving Manhattan. Heck even when I board it at 28 Street in Queens Plaza, it's often SRO, and the next bus isn't too far ahead (Granted traffic between jackson avenue and van dam street has held it up some, but point is, there's not too much of a distance).

Another benefit to the Q60 is that it's most convenient for s/b M15 bus riders... If you're riding the M15 SBS, that'll drop you off at practically 56 Street so you have to walk back up to 59 Street to get a Q32... Which may be pulling out of the stop as you're walking up 1 Avenue,  sitting in the FUBAR'd gridlock that is 59 Street, or somewhere down near Penn Station. For the Q60, there's almost always a bus waiting there, either laying over or letting passengers on early. And for the M15 local buses (And M15 LTD... Back when it existed and stopped at 60 Street...), the Q60 is right across the street.

That said, short-turning some buses in Queens is logical... but they already do that. Some seem to be scheduled short turns @ 33 Street and others seem to be done at the whim of the dispatcher. And FWIW sometimes they'll short turn Q32s at Queensboro Plaza. I think a Q60 short turn code for 48 Street used to exist, but I don't know if it they use it anymore.  I've never seen it in the past 10 years at least.

-----

As for the Q101, I concur with all the people saying it should only enter Manhattan in the rush. I've never really understood why it goes to Manhattan anymore. Ever since they took away its unique terminal under the QB Bridge exit ramp or over by 60/61 Street on 2 Avenue, it's become even more irrelevant... Now it just lays over behind all the Q60s has a measly line of 5-7 people at best, literally as an afterthought lol. Furthermore the routing of the Q101 is horrible in the first place because it keeps getting bogged down in horrible Northern Boulevard traffic just outside of Queensboro Plaza so from that standpoint I don't know why anyone would bother riding such a route when the R parallels it to Broadway, where people could transfer to the Q101 to heads to all points north (Not like there's no Steinway traffic north of Broadway....). Perhaps I'm more biased since I've never used the Q101 over the Bridge but save for the handful of people who use it in the rush hour, it's pretty pointless (And that reflects in all the empty Q101 buses I see going over the bridge.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

42 minutes ago, Orion6025 said:

As for the Q101, I concur with all the people saying it should only enter Manhattan in the rush. I've never really understood why it goes to Manhattan anymore. Ever since they took away its unique terminal under the QB Bridge exit ramp or over by 60/61 Street on 2 Avenue, it's become even more irrelevant... Now it just lays over behind all the Q60s has a measly line of 5-7 people at best, literally as an afterthought lol. Furthermore the routing of the Q101 is horrible in the first place because it keeps getting bogged down in horrible Northern Boulevard traffic just outside of Queensboro Plaza so from that standpoint I don't know why anyone would bother riding such a route when the R parallels it to Broadway, where people could transfer to the Q101 to heads to all points north (Not like there's no Steinway traffic north of Broadway....). Perhaps I'm more biased since I've never used the Q101 over the Bridge but save for the handful of people who use it in the rush hour, it's pretty pointless (And that reflects in all the empty Q101 buses I see going over the bridge.

The Q101 should stop serving Manhattan altogether. I would suggest extending buses down to the Ferry (either that or the Q102), via Jackson Ave, 46 Ave/46 Road, and Center Boulevard, in order to improve connections and increase ridership on the route. It was probably utilized more from Manhattan when the route operated from to/from Rikers Island.

[B35 via Church]

On 11/23/2018 at 6:28 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Would just cutting back the Q60 entirely to QBP and having the Q32 be the sole Queens-Midtown route (with some added service) be a good idea?

Couple people stole my thunder, but I concur with the consensus saying that it wouldn't....

You're not going to get too many people from off the Q60 willing to xfer to the Q32 to get into Manhattan... That is only going to have more people either a} taking the subway along QB (as in, not even considering the Q60) to get into Manhattan or b} xferring to the subway from off the Q60 at either Queens Plz. or QBP for Manhattan access...... So there is still a bit of a need to have both routes still run to Manhattan in some capacity.... All I'm saying is that it should be at a lesser clip, so as many trips won't be subjected to the chaos around the bridge/approach....

I mean, the Q60 would still hold its own (in terms of ridership numbers) running w/i Queens, but what you don't want (in terms of the network) is the Q32 being the sole interborough route via the 59th st. bridge... Personally, I believe the Q32 suffers from not only more problems than the Q60 does, but at an increased amplitude of them as well.... An example? For as delay prone that the Q60 is, the Q32 is by far worse....

People gun for the Q60 from E. Midtown (esp. those that are disembarking at some point before the Q32/Q60 diverge) simply because they know it's going to be right there on that corner (Orion6025 is spot on with that) - as opposed to having to play where's waldo with the Q32 just to "get back into Queens"....

On 11/23/2018 at 6:44 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Not really, no. If you were to cut back the Q60 to QBP, it would be MORE congested than it is now. If you were to cut back the Q60, at least end it somewhere in LIC. As for the Q32 being the sole Queens-Midtown bus. I'm not too keen on that. At least with the Q66 extension to Columbus circle, you'd have some type of backup for the whenever they get delayed.  (The congestion in Midtown sounds like a challenge of it's own and that sounds like something that and DOT should focus on resolving before getting to Queens for a bus network redesign) Besides. Bus service should be designed to attract Ridership. And (hopefully) get people off Uber/Lyft/etc. 

While I don't agree with the premise of having all Q60's cut back to running within Queens, having it do as such would not result in the route being more congested than what it is now... More compact, yes, but not congested.... Secondly, you say if the route were to be cut back, it should end in LIC - which is funny, because QBP is in LIC.... Lastly, while I think we all on here would like to see bus ridership in this city improve (or at least, not continuing to decline at the rate it is), that doesn't necessarily mean that routes should be prolonged all over the place either...

If anything, that would exacerbate the situation by expediting the waning bus ridership in this city - especially if one of the major complaints people are having is that of (un)reliability....

On 11/23/2018 at 7:07 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Ok, what else do you suggest? 

What do I suggest as far as..... What?

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The Q60 gets good ridership from 2nd Avenue. I've been on evening buses that have been SRO from there (and the bus wasn't late). Perhaps ending some buses during the midday hours on the Queens side could work, but not entirely. If anything, a split should be done on that route. I would sughest more terminating the Q60 at Archer every day. That way, you can boost service on the Q6 (and perhaps provide all day LTD service that way). 

Nah, piece-mealing bus service on QB won't solve much of anything... You'll just have 2 routes with less individual service either overlapping each other for some significant stint , or having some mutual terminal... Then there'll be an even greater push (from the MTA) to have people (esp. on the eastern resultant split) take the subway.... The way I see it, they've been trying to mar Q60 service over the years (esp. on weekends) to have that be the case.....

Of course, with as many weekends of bustitution on the (or the ) on the Queens end (Jamaica end) lately, people are still taking buses anyway

I agree though with having more Q60 trips ending at Archer... Too bad Sutphin/Archer's such a shitshow - made worse with the propping up those hotels or whatever, with which I wish they hurry up with....

Your point about the Q6 should happen anyway, but I'm not seeing the connection between a service level improvement for it & increasing the amount of short turns on that end of the Q60....

5 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

That said, short-turning some buses in Queens is logical... but they already do that. Some seem to be scheduled short turns @ 33 Street and others seem to be done at the whim of the dispatcher. And FWIW sometimes they'll short turn Q32s at Queensboro Plaza. I think a Q60 short turn code for 48 Street used to exist, but I don't know if it they use it anymore.  I've never seen it in the past 10 years at least.

That's just it - on the western end of the route (in Queens), it isn't done on any consistent basis... It being whimsically, or erratically done doesn't cut it AFAIC - Just as they have some Q60's, in a solidified fashion, short turning on the other end of the route at Archer, the same should be the case at QBP as well..... What should be two, simple short left hand turns from the terminal onto the bridge approach is a PITA & IMO, it's the catalyst for the notorious bunching the thing suffers from....

[BreeddekalbL]

I also would that the dot (Polly) needs stop interfering with bus routes forcing them to be rerouted to accommodate her street reengineering projects

[B35 via Church]

9 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

I also would that the dot (Polly) needs stop interfering with bus routes forcing them to be rerouted to accommodate her street reengineering projects

Is that that chick that want a cracker?

[LGA Link N Train]

16 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

What do I suggest as far as..... What?

In terms of how bus routes should be throughout Queens so that they can reverse the decline in Ridership and provide more frequent service in Queens. 

21 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The Q101 should stop serving Manhattan altogether. I would suggest extending buses down to the Ferry (either that or the Q102), via Jackson Ave, 46 Ave/46 Road, and Center Boulevard, in order to improve connections and increase ridership on the route. It was probably utilized more from Manhattan when the route operated from to/from Rikers Island.

I made a somewhat similar proposal to have the Q103 connect directly with the LIRR and The Ferry in Long Island City. It would have to be extended down to Borden Avenue making a right turn, then loop on 2nd Street and Center Blvd, which would be good, considering the growth of that area. New Apartment buildings getting ready to be built, Amazon Headquarters on Vernon and 44th, Queens Library and the multiple events that happen on the Park Next to Center Boulevard. Sending the Q101 there as well could help gentrify the area. and better connect Long Island City. Is it okay if I add this on to my Queens Bus Redesign Map?

17 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Secondly, you say if the route were to be cut back, it should end in LIC - which is funny, because QBP is in LIC....

Well, I meant somewhere in LIC other than Queensboro Plaza. Either way, I'm opposed to cutting the Q60 service from Manhattan since it does get a good amount of ridership from that end (which I've witnessed multiple times) 

 

[Around the Horn]

Other people touched on this already, but forcing the Q32 to be the only route for multiple different nodes (Penn Station, 32nd Street, Queens<>Manhattan) isn't a good idea.

I mean they've already started running Q32 trippers that don't even touch Queens (they drop out at Madison and 57th), which just shows how stupid the M4 move was.

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

In terms of how bus routes should be throughout Queens so that they can reverse the decline in Ridership and provide more frequent service in Queens.

I'll leave the route ideas for the individual borough idea threads.... Generally speaking however, much of Queens' bus network (moreso than any of the other boroughs) is antiquated, and for lack of a better word, lacking... That has to be addressed, right along with the PBL-level service levels &/or scheduling some of these routes still have.

2 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Well, I meant somewhere in LIC other than Queensboro Plaza. Either way, I'm opposed to cutting the Q60 service from Manhattan since it does get a good amount of ridership from that end (which I've witnessed multiple times)

It's futile to have the Q60 on that end of the route diverted from its normal path (or extended somewhere in LIC past QBP) to keep some trips not running to E. Midtown.... Either you stop them dead before running over the bridge (i.e. QBP) or run every trip over the bridge into E. Midtown..... The short turns on the other end of the route at Archer helps with reliability, but it's not nearly enough.... Those epic lines that accumulate over there on 60th/2nd does so, due to buses arriving in bunches....

...which segues into your other point - nobody here is questioning the usage of the Q60 in Manhattan (I don't even think Checkmate is doing that with this inquiry), so there's no need to doubt what you say you've witnessed - We've seen it too, fam ..... With that said, and at the same time, we can't or shouldn't overlook the intra-Queens ridership the Q60 gets because it gets a decent amt. of ridership in Manhattan either.....

We as NY-ers (hell, myself included) have to get out of this mindset that it's blasphemous to take something away from Manhattan...

2 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

I mean they've already started running Q32 trippers that don't even touch Queens (they drop out at Madison and 57th), which just shows how stupid the M4 move was.

Are these additional Q32 trips or Q32 trips that'd normally run to Jackson Hgts?