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Union Tpke

MAJOR update on the 42nd Street Shuttle Rebuild for ADA

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While looking at cbsix's website, I found a presentation from a month ago about the shuttle. I am very very saddened by these changes. MY FAVORITE spot in the system will be eliminated, or at least, put out of the public's reach. I love being in the area near the bridge to Track 4 where you can be right by uptown (1) trains in the tunnel. Here you are in the tunnel, but are in a public area. I will severely miss this. The price of progress.....

http://cbsix.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Times-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final.pdf

48054822893_e99ba00d52_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054776591_1493f3ea00_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final1 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054870252_0e187c52aa_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final3 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054822653_0b12b467be_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final4 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054870157_75f9d4a2f3_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final5 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054870077_c9e306e1bb_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final6 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054869932_a62d18189e_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final7 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775921_504449a625_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final8 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775816_342a14b756_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final9 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775756_8a45c61f99_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final10 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775741_d18b27fc2b_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final11 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775676_09bff1bd78_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final12 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775601_9696564e15_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final13 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054869347_c9d5777a48_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final14 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775416_b742c71afa_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final15 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

@Eric B

48054775351_502b82850d_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final16 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054869062_e7af20f5ba_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final17 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775141_9a9618e206_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final18 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054821193_339eb0d4bf_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final19 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054774986_0cef641fc0_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final20 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

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I like the renderings... At least they're keeping the 1904 look and imitating it in the new station.

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I am all for this! As a daily (S) rider, this is much needed. Too much chaos and confusion at Times Square in the morning.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Deucey said:

So they want to run 6-car trains?

Yes. The shuttle will from three and 4 car trains to 6-car R62A (and eventually R262) trains to allow for the reconfiguration of Times Sq to have an improved traffic flow, increased train capacity, and ADA Access. Track 3 would be removed and the bridge over track 4 would permanently be removed so that a train on track 4 needing to be serviced won't have to wait for the bridge to be removed in order to go through. However, say goodbye to the view of the Broadway-7th Avenue Line tunnels from the end of the platform. 

Edited by JeremiahC99

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2 hours ago, Deucey said:

So they want to run 6-car trains?

That's the plan. (Before you say anything about the cars, consider the R262s. They'll basically be stored and maintained in the same manner as the R62As currently used.)

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1 minute ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Yes. The shuttle will from three and 4 car trains to 6-car R62A (and eventually R262) trains to allow for the reconfiguration of Times Sq to have an improved traffic flow and ADA Access. Track 3 would be removed and the bridge over track 4 would permanently be removed so that a train on track 4 needing to be serviced won't have to wait for the bridge to be removed in order to go through. However, say goodbye to the view of the Broadway-7th Avenue Line tunnels from the end of the platform. 

So will the two tracks run independently, or are trains going to cross over (ie have a proper eastbound and westbound track)?

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27 minutes ago, Deucey said:

So will the two tracks run independently, or are trains going to cross over (ie have a proper eastbound and westbound track)?

Based on the proposals, the trains will otherwise run as they do now. Since it's nothing more than a back-and-forth affair on an incredibly short route, there's no real need to have another potential point of failure.

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28 minutes ago, Deucey said:

So will the two tracks run independently, or are trains going to cross over (ie have a proper eastbound and westbound track)?

There is no point of having trains cross over when the trains are going from point A to point B with no stops in either direction, so the two tracks will operate independently of each other.

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30 minutes ago, Lex said:

Based on the proposals, the trains will otherwise run as they do now. Since it's nothing more than a back-and-forth affair on an incredibly short route, there's no real need to have another potential point of failure.

 

29 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

There is no point of having trains cross over when the trains are going from point A to point B with no stops in either direction, so the two tracks will operate independently of each other.

So reducing frequency but trains lengthened by 1 car on average then?

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There are a few other things that stand out to me that haven't been mentioned:

"Improve train reliability with modern signal system" - Will this be CBTC or a pilot for UWB? @RR503 Have you heard anything about this?

-The exit at 43rd Street will close

-The free transfer to Bryant Park. For the first time, two stations on the same line will be in the same station complex (5 Av and Times Sq on the (7)); Ridership is going to be insane. I wonder if this will reduce crowding on the (7)  at all, and wonder how well the transfer will be used.

- @Dj Hammers Also, I would bet that new crossovers would be installed to connect the two tracks in case one track is out of service. If they were smart, they would install a layup track using a section of Track 3 in between the two stations. If they connect the two tracks, retracing the route of the original subway could be possible. I hope they take the time to do this, but doing so would require the demolition of columns in the tunnel.

 

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1 hour ago, Deucey said:

 

So reducing frequency but trains lengthened by 1 car on average then?

At peak, you have two 3 car trains and one 4 car train, so 10 cars total and a 3 car train and a 4 car train (7 cars total) other times. Under this proposal, you have two 6 car trains, 12 cars total at all times.

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4 hours ago, Deucey said:

 

So reducing frequency but trains lengthened by 1 car on average then?

This one's a weird case. If we were to have two trains at 5-car lengths, this would be clean, but because we have two trains at 3-car lengths and one with 4, the actual numbers come out to be a little different while still acknowledging the clean figure.

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I find this to beneficial in terms of Capacity and improving the Shuttle overall. Too bad that I won’t be able to Railfan at the one Corner by Track 4 or take pictures of the Shuttle in that middle Platform by the time this is complete. 

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OK, so cool! Finally a layout and a time. Three years? Hope so, because that sounds like a lot of work to reconfigure all of that.

I had assumed the new passageway would tie in to the "employee facility rooms", which were built where there used to be an old exit to the old building there.

So according to this, it doesn't even come anywhere near that far, but ties into the end of this new platform, and from the mid-block area, where an exit was always planned (green in the top illustration). That explains why they didn't just remove the rooms and connect it already. (The passageway does extend a bit past that area, and dead ends [black area], but I'm not sure what that is).

2022 will be 13 years after the completion of the Durst building (1 Bryant Park/Bank of America tower), when the passageway was promised to tenants. Hope it stays that soon.

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This project will take 36 months to complete. How will the (7) be able to handle the crowds as it will serve as the sole 42nd Street crosstown service?

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39 minutes ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

This project will take 36 months to complete. How will the (7) be able to handle the crowds as it will serve as the sole 42nd Street crosstown service?

People might walk.

Or Uber.

Or M42...

(Kinda like they do with the (L) situation.)

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31 minutes ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

This project will take 36 months to complete. How will the (7) be able to handle the crowds as it will serve as the sole 42nd Street crosstown service?

(S) service will continue operate during the busiest times. I do anticipate almost all of the work to be done during overnight hours, when the shuttle isn’t running.

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52 minutes ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

This project will take 36 months to complete. How will the (7) be able to handle the crowds as it will serve as the sole 42nd Street crosstown service?

Did you actually read the presentation? It clear says the Shuttle will continue to operate at the busiest times (i.e. weekdays) ...

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7 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Did you actually read the presentation? It clear says the Shuttle will continue to operate at the busiest times (i.e. weekdays) ...

I must've missed it several times because I don't see where in the above slides this is mentioned. Would you like to point it out?

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19 minutes ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

I must've missed it several times because I don't see where in the above slides this is mentioned. Would you like to point it out?

Quote

Service Changes

(S) shuttle will continue to operate during the busiest times (note that it operates 6am – 12am currently)  

Page 21

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So basically there’s a net gain of two cars? I wonder if two extra cars are already stored in the yard. Regarding the R262, I think the order should be a combination of both 6-car and 5-car sets with open thruways, that way they can run on the shuttle and the 7. It would work well to improve capacity without the extra half cabs and distance between cars. But that’s for the R262 thread.

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1 hour ago, BayParkwayW said:

So basically there’s a net gain of two cars? I wonder if two extra cars are already stored in the yard. Regarding the R262, I think the order should be a combination of both 6-car and 5-car sets with open thruways, that way they can run on the shuttle and the 7. It would work well to improve capacity without the extra half cabs and distance between cars. But that’s for the R262 thread.

That would only make some sense if we had a direct connection between the Flushing Line and mainline IRT.

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