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Union Tpke

MAJOR update on the 42nd Street Shuttle Rebuild for ADA

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While looking at cbsix's website, I found a presentation from a month ago about the shuttle. I am very very saddened by these changes. MY FAVORITE spot in the system will be eliminated, or at least, put out of the public's reach. I love being in the area near the bridge to Track 4 where you can be right by uptown (1) trains in the tunnel. Here you are in the tunnel, but are in a public area. I will severely miss this. The price of progress.....

http://cbsix.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Times-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final.pdf

48054822893_e99ba00d52_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054776591_1493f3ea00_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final1 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054870252_0e187c52aa_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final3 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054822653_0b12b467be_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final4 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054870157_75f9d4a2f3_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final5 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054870077_c9e306e1bb_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final6 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054869932_a62d18189e_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final7 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775921_504449a625_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final8 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775816_342a14b756_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final9 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775756_8a45c61f99_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final10 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775741_d18b27fc2b_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final11 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775676_09bff1bd78_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final12 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775601_9696564e15_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final13 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054869347_c9d5777a48_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final14 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775416_b742c71afa_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final15 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

@Eric B

48054775351_502b82850d_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final16 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054869062_e7af20f5ba_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final17 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054775141_9a9618e206_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final18 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054821193_339eb0d4bf_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final19 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

48054774986_0cef641fc0_h.jpgTimes-Square-ADA_MN-CB5_final20 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

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I am all for this! As a daily (S) rider, this is much needed. Too much chaos and confusion at Times Square in the morning.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Deucey said:

So they want to run 6-car trains?

Yes. The shuttle will from three and 4 car trains to 6-car R62A (and eventually R262) trains to allow for the reconfiguration of Times Sq to have an improved traffic flow, increased train capacity, and ADA Access. Track 3 would be removed and the bridge over track 4 would permanently be removed so that a train on track 4 needing to be serviced won't have to wait for the bridge to be removed in order to go through. However, say goodbye to the view of the Broadway-7th Avenue Line tunnels from the end of the platform. 

Edited by JeremiahC99

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2 hours ago, Deucey said:

So they want to run 6-car trains?

That's the plan. (Before you say anything about the cars, consider the R262s. They'll basically be stored and maintained in the same manner as the R62As currently used.)

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1 minute ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Yes. The shuttle will from three and 4 car trains to 6-car R62A (and eventually R262) trains to allow for the reconfiguration of Times Sq to have an improved traffic flow and ADA Access. Track 3 would be removed and the bridge over track 4 would permanently be removed so that a train on track 4 needing to be serviced won't have to wait for the bridge to be removed in order to go through. However, say goodbye to the view of the Broadway-7th Avenue Line tunnels from the end of the platform. 

So will the two tracks run independently, or are trains going to cross over (ie have a proper eastbound and westbound track)?

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27 minutes ago, Deucey said:

So will the two tracks run independently, or are trains going to cross over (ie have a proper eastbound and westbound track)?

Based on the proposals, the trains will otherwise run as they do now. Since it's nothing more than a back-and-forth affair on an incredibly short route, there's no real need to have another potential point of failure.

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28 minutes ago, Deucey said:

So will the two tracks run independently, or are trains going to cross over (ie have a proper eastbound and westbound track)?

There is no point of having trains cross over when the trains are going from point A to point B with no stops in either direction, so the two tracks will operate independently of each other.

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30 minutes ago, Lex said:

Based on the proposals, the trains will otherwise run as they do now. Since it's nothing more than a back-and-forth affair on an incredibly short route, there's no real need to have another potential point of failure.

 

29 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

There is no point of having trains cross over when the trains are going from point A to point B with no stops in either direction, so the two tracks will operate independently of each other.

So reducing frequency but trains lengthened by 1 car on average then?

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There are a few other things that stand out to me that haven't been mentioned:

"Improve train reliability with modern signal system" - Will this be CBTC or a pilot for UWB? @RR503 Have you heard anything about this?

-The exit at 43rd Street will close

-The free transfer to Bryant Park. For the first time, two stations on the same line will be in the same station complex (5 Av and Times Sq on the (7)); Ridership is going to be insane. I wonder if this will reduce crowding on the (7)  at all, and wonder how well the transfer will be used.

- @Dj Hammers Also, I would bet that new crossovers would be installed to connect the two tracks in case one track is out of service. If they were smart, they would install a layup track using a section of Track 3 in between the two stations. If they connect the two tracks, retracing the route of the original subway could be possible. I hope they take the time to do this, but doing so would require the demolition of columns in the tunnel.

 

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1 hour ago, Deucey said:

 

So reducing frequency but trains lengthened by 1 car on average then?

At peak, you have two 3 car trains and one 4 car train, so 10 cars total and a 3 car train and a 4 car train (7 cars total) other times. Under this proposal, you have two 6 car trains, 12 cars total at all times.

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4 hours ago, Deucey said:

 

So reducing frequency but trains lengthened by 1 car on average then?

This one's a weird case. If we were to have two trains at 5-car lengths, this would be clean, but because we have two trains at 3-car lengths and one with 4, the actual numbers come out to be a little different while still acknowledging the clean figure.

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I find this to beneficial in terms of Capacity and improving the Shuttle overall. Too bad that I won’t be able to Railfan at the one Corner by Track 4 or take pictures of the Shuttle in that middle Platform by the time this is complete. 

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OK, so cool! Finally a layout and a time. Three years? Hope so, because that sounds like a lot of work to reconfigure all of that.

I had assumed the new passageway would tie in to the "employee facility rooms", which were built where there used to be an old exit to the old building there.

So according to this, it doesn't even come anywhere near that far, but ties into the end of this new platform, and from the mid-block area, where an exit was always planned (green in the top illustration). That explains why they didn't just remove the rooms and connect it already. (The passageway does extend a bit past that area, and dead ends [black area], but I'm not sure what that is).

2022 will be 13 years after the completion of the Durst building (1 Bryant Park/Bank of America tower), when the passageway was promised to tenants. Hope it stays that soon.

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This project will take 36 months to complete. How will the (7) be able to handle the crowds as it will serve as the sole 42nd Street crosstown service?

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39 minutes ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

This project will take 36 months to complete. How will the (7) be able to handle the crowds as it will serve as the sole 42nd Street crosstown service?

People might walk.

Or Uber.

Or M42...

(Kinda like they do with the (L) situation.)

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31 minutes ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

This project will take 36 months to complete. How will the (7) be able to handle the crowds as it will serve as the sole 42nd Street crosstown service?

(S) service will continue operate during the busiest times. I do anticipate almost all of the work to be done during overnight hours, when the shuttle isn’t running.

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52 minutes ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

This project will take 36 months to complete. How will the (7) be able to handle the crowds as it will serve as the sole 42nd Street crosstown service?

Did you actually read the presentation? It clear says the Shuttle will continue to operate at the busiest times (i.e. weekdays) ...

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7 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Did you actually read the presentation? It clear says the Shuttle will continue to operate at the busiest times (i.e. weekdays) ...

I must've missed it several times because I don't see where in the above slides this is mentioned. Would you like to point it out?

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19 minutes ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

I must've missed it several times because I don't see where in the above slides this is mentioned. Would you like to point it out?

Quote

Service Changes

(S) shuttle will continue to operate during the busiest times (note that it operates 6am – 12am currently)  

Page 21

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So basically there’s a net gain of two cars? I wonder if two extra cars are already stored in the yard. Regarding the R262, I think the order should be a combination of both 6-car and 5-car sets with open thruways, that way they can run on the shuttle and the 7. It would work well to improve capacity without the extra half cabs and distance between cars. But that’s for the R262 thread.

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1 hour ago, BayParkwayW said:

So basically there’s a net gain of two cars? I wonder if two extra cars are already stored in the yard. Regarding the R262, I think the order should be a combination of both 6-car and 5-car sets with open thruways, that way they can run on the shuttle and the 7. It would work well to improve capacity without the extra half cabs and distance between cars. But that’s for the R262 thread.

That would only make some sense if we had a direct connection between the Flushing Line and mainline IRT.

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http://www.mta.info/press-release/nyc-transit/mta-transform-42-st-shuttle-provide-better-service-fully-accessible

https://new.mta.info/42StShuttle

MTA to Transform 42 St Shuttle to Provide Better Service, Fully Accessible Crosstown Transit Connection

Time to fan the shuttle everyone! I will. My favorite spot in the system will go away and the history of IRT will be whitewashed. That is the MTA for you.

Redesigned Times Square Terminal, Reconfigured Grand Central Platform to Add 20 Percent Peak-Hour Capacity, Allow Longer Trains; Complete Final Piece of Accessibility at Times Sq-42 St
42 St Shuttle to Continue Operation with Minor Service Changes Through Construction; Work Set to Start August 16
Historical Photos of the 42 St Shuttle are Available Here
 
The Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) today announced that the 42 St Shuttle, which moves thousands of customers between the subway system’s two busiest stations, will undergo a historic transformation that includes replacing the Times Square Shuttle terminal with a larger and accessible station, reconfiguring platforms at Grand Central, and modernizing shuttle train operations. The project will result in a 42 St Shuttle that is fully accessible, has more capacity and is easier for customers to use.
Work to modernize the 42 St Shuttle, which is over 100 years old and is part of the original 1904 subway system, is scheduled to run from August 16, 2019, through 2022. The 42 St Shuttle service will continue operating during a multi-phased construction timeline, with only minor service reductions scheduled to minimize customer impact and changes to arrival tracks. Additional information is posted on the project website, new.mta.info/42StShuttle.  
“Making our system accessible and easier to use for all New Yorkers is essential to modernizing the MTA, and this 42 St Shuttle transformation project is another example of our progress. Instead of simply fixing the most urgent conditions, we’re taking this opportunity to truly transform the 42 St Shuttle,” said MTA Managing Director Veronique Hakim. “The project will allow the MTA to move more people, run longer trains and simplify transfers for customers between the city’s busiest transit hubs. We’re making crossing Midtown Manhattan quicker and easier for millions of customers.”
More than 100,000 customers use the 42 St Shuttle daily. During peak hours, approximately 10,00 customers use the Shuttle to travel crosstown between the subway system’s two largest station complexes. Operating at all hours except overnights, the 42 St Shuttle provides access to Metro-North Railroad’s Grand Central Terminal and commuter and intercity bus service at 42 St-Port Authority Bus Terminal, and serves popular tourist destinations near both stations. It currently operates on tracks and stations built 115 years ago as part of New York City’s first subway line, which ran from City Hall across 42nd Street to Harlem. The track segment along 42nd Street was later repurposed as the existing crosstown 42 St Shuttle.
The project will modernize every aspect of the 42 St Shuttle, from the track operations and signaling to accessible platforms and new station entrances, including:
 
Expanding current 4-car train length to 6-car trains: The consolidated track operation will also allow longer 6-car trains to enter the terminals, increasing total peak-hour capacity on trains by 20 percent
Centralizing the three-track operation to two tracks on one platform: This will make it easier for customers to identify and get to the next arriving train
Reconfiguring the current operation from three tracks on a curve to two straight tracks: This will eliminate large platform gaps, making the shuttle fully accessible for mobility-impaired customers, including wheelchair users, and increasing overall platform safety
Replacing the current signal system, which dates back to the 1930s, with new modern signals
Upgrading the terminal’s electrical infrastructure and adding new crew facilities
 
At the 42 St Shuttle’s Times Square terminal:
The Shuttle platforms are the last remaining area of the Times Sq-42 St Station complex to be updated for accessibility. Improvements include:
Building a new ADA-compliant terminal with a single, centralized platform: To be rebuilt within the existing tunnel structure for the 42 St Shuttle, the terminal will have a new island platform for a centralized two-track operation
Expanding and streamlining the platform architecture: The new platform will be twice as wide as the current platform, measuring 315 feet long and 28 feet across, with fewer station columns to improve sightlines, customer flow and wheelchair accessibility
Adding a new station entrance: A 15-feet wide station staircase with custom station signage and a glass canopy will be installed as part of the One Times Square redevelopment. The One Times Square project also includes a new station elevator provided and maintained by the developer
Adding a new, modern turnstile area: This spacious mezzanine will have new LED lighting, glass barriers and new digital screens that provide a large station entrance for Times Square customers
Station upgrades throughout: New walls, paint, signage and brighter, more energy-efficient LED lighting
Adding new crew rooms and reconfiguring the employee facility area with an emergency-only exit redesigned from a small 310-square-feet station exit near the NYPD’s Times Square substation
 
At the 42 St Shuttle’s Grand Central terminal:
Reconfiguring platforms into one island platform: The new platform will be nearly 22,000 square feet — one of the largest platforms in the entire subway system
Building a new staircase: A 15-feet wide platform staircase will replace smaller stairs at the western end of the terminal to help customers get in and out of the platform area faster
 
Construction will be scheduled in multiple phases to minimize service impacts and customer inconvenience. Throughout the project, some crowding is expected during peak travel times in the morning and afternoon. As the construction moves forward, new service changes will be posted and announced at affected stations and on trains to give customers time to plan ahead.
Ahead of the construction start, the MTA conducted public outreach to provide notice to the affected stakeholders, and will continue to provide project updates. Customers are advised to:
Plan for a few extra minutes of travel time during peak times
Consider taking the 7 Subway train, which also serves the Times Sq-42 St and Grand Central-42 St stations
 
Approximately 640,000 customers pass through the Times Sq-42 St station complex and approximately 490,000 customers use the Grand Central-42 St subway complex each weekday, making them the two busiest stations in the subway system.
For more information about the 42 St Shuttle accessibility and modernization project and service changes, visit new.mta.info/42StShuttle or follow #42StShuttle or @NYCTSubway on Twitter for updates.  

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I have asked the project team about the resignaling, whether it would be CBTC, and, among other things, whether a portion of Track 3 in the tunnel will be used as a layup track for trains that have to go out of service (like Track 4 during the off-peak), and whether a switch connecting Tracks 1 and 4 would be added.

@RR503 If there is any line to be automated, it is this one. Originally, $1 million was budgeted in the 2015-2019 Capital Program for a study of automation. I hope that the line gets CBTC.

How many TPH could be added with CBTC (dependent on dwells), and could runtimes be decreased from 90 seconds? The line would not traverse the curves at Times Square, they could go at faster speeds on Track 4 (no bumper block), and would not have to deal with gap fillers (Track 4). Dwells should go down as people won't be running to get the Shuttle on another track, and as platform columns are removed, as staircases are widened, and as platforms are enlarged. I hope that overnight service, which ran every ten minutes, gets restored.

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