Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Via Garibaldi 8]

46 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

The B83 runs in service. 

Interesting.

[B35 via Church]

4 hours ago, IAlam said:

Based on that data people from Queens Village are typically either going somewhere along Springfield or to Flushing. The Q26 basically has a that coverage with parts of Bayside now being covered by the Q78. The current Q27 does way too much and eliminating the stops won't help it. The proposed Q27 is also doing a lot, and with the new route on the Q65 I doubt the MTA will wanna reverse the Q65 and Q27 in College Point. Having the Q27 run down to QV even with a lot of eliminated stops is not going to help the route much as the path through Springfield are on more narrow roads where the buses are usually traveling slower on top of the fact drivers have to worry about more intersections and curves with how broken the street grid is over there. The Q26 on the other and has a route route on wider streets that the bus can get through faster....

  That first statement doesn't tell me much of anything, as the current Q27 runs along Springfield & also runs to Flushing.... The argument isn't that nobody in SE Queens rides to Flushing... Nobody's arguing that the Q27 doesn't do too much... Nobody's arguing that the proposed Q26 won't be faster than the current Q27.... But there is no way you, the MTA, or anyone else that concurs with the proposed Q26 is going to have me believe that proposed Q26 would be almost as, just as, or even more successful than the current Q27.... You're not explicitly saying it, but your comments seem to be implicating that.... If that's the case, that is something we're simply going to remain in a disagreement with....

Funny how eliminating stops won't help the current Q27 with this 20%, or 10%, or whatever amt. of SE Queens patrons gunning for Flushing, but it'll help the proposed Q26.... The approximately 3 mile difference between the current Q27 & the proposed Q26 isn't that insurmountable... Lol...

I'm not sure why you're making the point that the proposed Q27 does a lot, as if I'm somehow suggesting that it should do more, when I'm saying it should do a little less... I'm also not sure why you keep specifically harping on Queens Village, when the (full route of the) current Q27 & the proposed Q26 run as far south as Cambria Hgts.... When I'm speaking of SE Queens, I'm not just speaking on one specific neighborhood....

4 hours ago, IAlam said:

As for you idea of the Q78 being the only bus on Springfield, that would ultimately butcher ridership. Without the connections towards Flushing you're going to loose that crowd that goes there, even if the ridership is a 1/10 of all riders and not a 1/5 like the data says, it still makes it one of the busier transfer points in East Queens.

Categorizing SE Queens patrons specifically riding out to Flushing as that of a crowd, is still overstating that usage.... For all the ridership that the Q27 amasses, there is no way that 20% of riders on the Q27 are specifically riding between QV & Flushing.... Not even 10%... Separately, the Q27 carries way too much between [QCC & SE Queens] & [Flushing & Springfield/HHE] for that to be the case.... I mean, isn't the end-to-end routing of the current Q27 a large reason as to why it's even being brought up that the thing does too much....

As for my idea of having the proposed Q26 end in Oakland Gdns. - 230th, the proposed Q27 end at Springfield/HHE, and the proposed Q78 curtailed to Northern from the south, yes, I'm well aware that there would be a severing of sorts & I would have no qualms doing it either, if not for having the current Q27 be kept.... I don't doubt for a second that the turning off at 73rd on that proposed Q26 is going to be a significant deterrent for SE Queens patrons - regardless of whatever benefit that would be for Oakland Gardens patrons....

4 hours ago, IAlam said:

Also I'm a long believer the Springfield's success comes from induced demand. I doubt Springfield ridership made the Q27 so frequent, but the Q27 being so frequent ultimately make Springfield more attractive. The Q27 is an off ly terrible route yet still manages to bring in a lot of ridership compared to other North South routes in the area. It is so easy to kill off demand but once you loose it it's hard to bring it back. I commend the MTA for at least trying to maintain most existing route connections under this proposal. I think they learned from the last proposal, that if you make it harder for people to make their current trips, riders aren't going to be happy. That's why the Q26 is using 73rd Ave (so Q88 riders aren't getting screwed.) That's partially what the Q78 exists. (So Springfield patrons can still access QCC)

So what are you implying here, that the Q27 started out as frequent as it is today? The MTA sure as hell didn't throw a bunch of BPH's along Springfield over the course of time for the hell of it....

The (partial) addressing of the preexisting latent demand is what made the Q27 more attractive... The thing used to terminate at LIRR QV full time & when they extended it down to 120th, the floodgates opened with that route... I remember that like it was yesterday.... The complaint was always that the Springfield branch of the Q83 (that also ended at LIRR QV) didn't run south enough on Springfield.... The Q27 got that extension southwards past LIRR QV to 120th, to close that service gap that existed along Springfield b/w the Q83 & the Q77... Funny enough, you have folks to this day that say that the Q27 should run down to Merrick (which is why I said "partial"), instead of randomly terminating where it currently does.... That constant pushing of the envelope (so to speak), I don't doubt sparked that original proposed QT71/renumbered Q78....

[N6 Limited]

I think some here are forgetting that there is another county on the other side of the eastern border of Queens. The Q78 would connect all the eastern Queens routes which cross Springfield and Bell Blvds (as well as the Guy R Brewer/Rockaway Blvd Routes, and Q3 into the Airport) and connect to all the NICE Routes along the way. This may be a Queens Redesign but there are many inter-county riders. It would be twins with the N25, but connect to way more routes.

According to the Study mentioned in the quoted post below, the busiest transfer points in North Eastern Queens are along the Q27, and many 3-legged transfers utilize the Q27 to get between the Q4/Q83 and Q43/Q46, which brings the Q26 extension to light.  The Q12,Q5/Q85/Q86, etc will most add to that list with this new route. The study doesn’t mention NICE transfer amounts, but Springfield Blvd is a heavy transfer point on the N6, extending the reach of the Springfield Corridor makes the Q78 an attractive route.

 

.

19 hours ago, IAlam said:

Actually I'd disagree, with the current Q27 the furthest people who to/from Flushing is usually Hempstead Ave, where people can connect to/from NICE buses. While you wouldn't get getting giant bus loads of people riding from Springfield to Flushing there is demand still. The MTA released a study a couple years back. On Page 42 and 92 it's listed that Springfield & Hillside and Union Tpk are major transfer point along that route. Additionally on Page 130 you can see that roughly 1/5 riders from Queens Village are going to Flushing. Even in that document they wanted to make a rush version of the Q27 and this was back in 2015. The Q78 is a nice route but based on the data it only caters to Bayside which had less people using the Q27 than Flushing. The Q26 as well as the Q78 would retain the ridership to Oakland Gardens, but now Oakland Gardens has a more coverage as well as a faster bus into Flushing. That's an overall win for the people in Queens Village and Oakland Gardens.

Also if anyone wants to read the old study I think its a great read as it explains a lot of what you see the MTA trying to do in the current redesigns.
https://www.mta.info/sites/default/files/northeast_queens_bus_study_-_final_9-28-15.pdf

Thanks for the link, the study is very interesting, It does give insight into the proposed routes in NE Queens.

[N6 Limited]

57 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

The (partial) addressing of the preexisting latent demand is what made the Q27 more attractive... The thing used to terminate at LIRR QV full time & when they extended it down to 120th, the floodgates opened with that route... I remember that like it was yesterday.... The complaint was always that the Springfield branch of the Q83 (that also ended at LIRR QV) didn't run south enough on Springfield.... The Q27 got that extension southwards past LIRR QV to 120th, to close that service gap that existed along Springfield b/w the Q83 & the Q77... Funny enough, you have folks to this day that say that the Q27 should run down to Merrick (which is why I said "partial"), instead of randomly terminating where it currently does.... That constant pushing of the envelope (so to speak), I don't doubt sparked that original proposed QT71/renumbered Q78....

I agree. The Q27 and Q88 ended at the QV LIRR and the Q83 from the opposite side. Extending the Q27 to 120th filled the gap but still missed transfer opportunities at Merrick Blvd. And, while the Q77 provided continuing service (which was their excuse), there were no timed transfers ( the Q77 doesn’t have the best headway), and many riders would want to transfer to the Q5 at the very least, so the extension helped for those going north, but still fell short for those going south.

[B35 via Church]

22 hours ago, dkupf said:

What are your opinions regarding the Q58 and Q98? I think that sending the Q58 in Corona via 51 Avenue/52 Avenue could be problematic, as that they could be too narrow for effective service.

I'm less worried about 51st/52nd av's & more worried about the running of that proposed Q58 on Roosevelt, TBH.... On the bright side, I could definitely see Corona residents gravitating to it....

22 hours ago, dkupf said:

If the Q72 is extended from its southern segment, via the Q38 to Metropolitan Ave, service would be streamlined.  There would be connections between the M Train, in Middle Village, and all LGA terminals.

The Q59 would be extended via 62 Dr/63 Ave to compensate for the loss of the Q38.

It'd have been nice if you streamlined those 10 consecutive damn posts you made.

Anyway,I wouldn't bother with having the Q72 pan south of QB... Don't see the demand for the streamlining you're mentioning.

22 hours ago, dkupf said:

Now is the time for the MTA to prepare bus service for when the renovations would be complete:

Q9 – Extend, permanently, via current Q10 Local to Lefferts Blvd AirTrain Station.

Q37 – Extend, permanently, via Federal Circle to JFK Cargo Area.

Not only do I see those riders not going for that, but I'd say it's unnecessary on top of it.... Everything terminating proximate to JFK doesn't have to run inside JFK....

22 hours ago, dkupf said:

If the Q63 would operate, via Broadway and Queens Blvd, to the Queens Center Mall there would be neither a need for the Q52-SBS north of the Queens Center Mall nor have all Q53-SBS trips operate north of this point.  What do you think?

If they left the previously proposed QT63 alone, there would still be a need for Woodhaven SBS service north of Queens Blvd.... Case in point - current Q53 patronage north of QB doesn't come close to tanking out on Hoffman Drive.... Why do you think there was so much (and so vociferous a) pushback for the MTA having previously suggested axing the current Q53, leaving riders with the Q52 (which of course, stops dead at QCM)?

21 hours ago, dkupf said:

I think that the extension of the service area to serve North Shore University Hospital was a great idea:

Q12 – Extend via Little Neck Pkwy, Bates Road, and Horace Harding Blvd to the North Shore University Hospital.

Q88 – Extend via Horace Harding Blvd to the North Shore University Hospital.

I also favored the previously proposed QT34 to North Shore Hospital (although TBH, I would have concerns of it having enough ridership to justify its existence in the longrun)... However, I wouldn't extend the proposed Q12, nor that Q88 up there.... If I'm against extending the Q12 to LIRR Great Neck, I can't sit here & concur running it further east, all things considered with the route.... As for running the Q88 there, I'd say it's enough that they have it running to LNP/HHE...

21 hours ago, dkupf said:

The Q83 should be extended into Nassau County, via 115 Ave/ Dutch Broadway, to serve Long Island Jewish Valley Stream Hospital, approximately two miles from the NYC City Limits.  The eastern terminal would be situated at the Blakeman Field Visitor Parking Lot.

Though some may think that NICE should operate the service, MTA operation would be more efficient.

I'd extend the Q83 the appx. half mile up to Queens General Hospital (or whatever they call it now), or over to Jamaica Hospital, before I'd ever consider extending it to LIJ Valley Stream... To sum it up, I wouldn't bother running any MTA route to that new hospital in question (regardless of how efficient, reliable, stable, whatever, the MTA is over NICE bus)

12 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

....The better proposal was with the last draft plan to expand the existing Q43 and it’s express variant to Manhasset via Hillside & Lake Success Road. I really hope thru the community meetings especially in SE Queens and NW Queens to address this issue with the extension. 
 

Honestly, the real perfect candidate would of been the Q36 since it runs right thru Little Neck and the route should be extended to Manhasset. 

You're referring to that QT34 & I happen to agree with the first sentiment...

That last sentiment of having the Q36 (of all routes) run over to North Shore Hospital however, naaah... It's more than enough that they had it take over the old Q79 up to LIRR Little Neck...

Edited April 8, 2022 by B35 via Church

[IAlam]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

  That first statement doesn't tell me much of anything, as the current Q27 runs along Springfield & also runs to Flushing.... The argument isn't that nobody in SE Queens rides to Flushing... Nobody's arguing that the Q27 doesn't do too much... Nobody's arguing that the proposed Q26 won't be faster than the current Q27.... But there is no way you, the MTA, or anyone else that concurs with the proposed Q26 is going to have me believe that proposed Q26 would be almost as, just as, or even more successful than the current Q27.... You're not explicitly saying it, but your comments seem to be implicating that.... If that's the case, that is something we're simply going to remain in a disagreement with....

Funny how eliminating stops won't help the current Q27 with this 20%, or 10%, or whatever amt. of SE Queens patrons gunning for Flushing, but it'll help the proposed Q26.... The approximately 3 mile difference between the current Q27 & the proposed Q26 isn't that insurmountable... Lol...

I'm not sure why you're making the point that the proposed Q27 does a lot, as if I'm somehow suggesting that it should do more, when I'm saying it should do a little less... I'm also not sure why you keep specifically harping on Queens Village, when the (full route of the) current Q27 & the proposed Q26 run as far south as Cambria Hgts.... When I'm speaking of SE Queens, I'm not just speaking on one specific neighborhood....

Categorizing SE Queens patrons specifically riding out to Flushing as that of a crowd, is still overstating that usage.... For all the ridership that the Q27 amasses, there is no way that 20% of riders on the Q27 are specifically riding between QV & Flushing.... Not even 10%... Separately, the Q27 carries way too much between [QCC & SE Queens] & [Flushing & Springfield/HHE] for that to be the case.... I mean, isn't the end-to-end routing of the current Q27 a large reason as to why it's even being brought up that the thing does too much....

As for my idea of having the proposed Q26 end in Oakland Gdns. - 230th, the proposed Q27 end at Springfield/HHE, and the proposed Q78 curtailed to Northern from the south, yes, I'm well aware that there would be a severing of sorts & I would have no qualms doing it either, if not for having the current Q27 be kept.... I don't doubt for a second that the turning off at 73rd on that proposed Q26 is going to be a significant deterrent for SE Queens patrons - regardless of whatever benefit that would be for Oakland Gardens patrons....

So what are you implying here, that the Q27 started out as frequent as it is today? The MTA sure as hell didn't throw a bunch of BPH's along Springfield over the course of time for the hell of it....

The (partial) addressing of the preexisting latent demand is what made the Q27 more attractive... The thing used to terminate at LIRR QV full time & when they extended it down to 120th, the floodgates opened with that route... I remember that like it was yesterday.... The complaint was always that the Springfield branch of the Q83 (that also ended at LIRR QV) didn't run south enough on Springfield.... The Q27 got that extension southwards past LIRR QV to 120th, to close that service gap that existed along Springfield b/w the Q83 & the Q77... Funny enough, you have folks to this day that say that the Q27 should run down to Merrick (which is why I said "partial"), instead of randomly terminating where it currently does.... That constant pushing of the envelope (so to speak), I don't doubt sparked that original proposed QT71/renumbered Q78....

Ok how about we get some things clear, your argument is that because there won't be much demand down Springfield so Q26 shouldn't be running past Oakland Gardens. My argument is that even if there isn't much demand the route should still exist. My reasoning doesn't exist to say that it's "just as, or even more successful than the current Q27" but rather its better than the current configuration of the Q27. I agree with you that the ridership won't be as great as the Q27, and I mentioned that which I'm not sure if you read that part. 

Quote

the MTA will gladly cut service wherever they can. I can see something like what @BM5 via Woodhaven idea of the bus running every 10 min something that would happen in the future.

Granted they might even see it fit to run every 12 or 15 minutes later down the line and I'm fine with that, but in no way do I agree it should terminate in Oakland Gardens. Reason like I mentioned in my earlier posts are part of the reason why I feel like the route should remain on Springfield. The Q27 is currently the only good link between NE and SE Queens. While you might not have care about having these routes much shorter, but for people who actually live by the Q27 (which includes me) we actually care. Those links to are crucial and getting rid of them means in order to get to SE Queens and Nassau via Jamaica on the Q44 because the Q17 isn't serving Jamaica anymore. That would add way more time then the proposed Q26. Compared to 47th Ave and the tight turns and narrow streets near QCC the Q26 goes along much wider roads and a straighter path that usually has little to no traffic. This will help make it more reliable and save a little bit of time, my guess is that based on the proposals the Q26 could shave at least 5min in travel time compared to the existing Q27 LTD. (Referring to the change in the east part only.)

As for the Q27 frequency as how it is today, the MTA added buses for the amount of people going to Flushing, but overtime people on Springfield benefited from that too. The more Q27 the MTA sent to Flushing the better service they got even if they weren't going to Flushing. Most of NE Queens bus service is gear towards getting ppl to and from the subway, so it's not a surprise that most routes in that area carry air. But that doesn't mean ppl aren't riding over there, it just more full as you get closer to the station because that's everyone's destination. But the Q27 on the other and currently has a lot of turnover south of QCC which is not normal for most routes in that area. The only other routes that have some turnover in NE Queens are the QCC Q30's and the Q46. But the Springfield buses have decent turnover. The amount of people boarding isn't significantly less it's just how long they stay on the bus. But why should they be punished for going short distances and not having a crowded bus to the subway. Going from ~<5 min on weekdays to 12min is a massive cut and almost 30min on weekends if just awful. The Q78 will not fill the void that'll left by the Q27, IMO it'll just make things worse. 

Lastly, I never said anything about Cambria Heights, or Merrick because I wouldn't know about running the route that far, my defense was for Hempstead Ave. Past that is largely outside of the normal domain of where I use the Q27. Frankly I don't use buses too often in SE Queens only on a few occasions to get to/from Green Acres. My only suggestion was that the Q78 go to Green Acres and possible serve 141st and 225th via Laurelton LIRR. That way it might have more of a ridership generator on it's southern end. The Q78 is definitely a route can either struggle a lot of be more successful then we'd all believe but As long as the MTA tries to make it have ridership generators on both ends it could possible work. Bayside has the mall, HS, Bell Blvd, and the LIRR so it's not impossible for it to carry sometimes.

Edited April 8, 2022 by IAlam

[IAlam]

18 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I also favored the previously proposed QT34 to North Shore Hospital (although TBH, I would have concerns of it having enough ridership to justify its existence in the longrun)... However, I wouldn't extend the proposed Q12, nor that Q88 up there.... If I'm against extending the Q12 to LIRR Great Neck, I can't sit here & concur running it further east, all things considered with the route.... As for running the Q88 there, I'd say it's enough that they have it running to LNP/HHE...

You've mentioned this before and I'm kinda curious, why you're ok with the MTA basically taking over the n26 with the QT34 but not the n20G?

[Future ENY OP]

30 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I also favored the previously proposed QT34 to North Shore Hospital (although TBH, I would have concerns of it having enough ridership to justify its existence in the longrun)... However, I wouldn't extend the proposed Q12, nor that Q88 up there.... If I'm against extending the Q12 to LIRR Great Neck, I can't sit here & concur running it further east, all things considered with the route.... As for running the Q88 there, I'd say it's enough that they have it running to LNP/HHE...

You're referring to that QT34 & I happen to agree with the first sentiment...

That last sentiment of having the Q36 (of all routes) run over to North Shore Hospital however, naaah... It's more than enough that they had it take over the old Q79 up to LIRR Little Neck...

Me personally, I like the Hillside Avenue variant to North Shore University Hospital (Manhasset). The Q43 runs thru the core of Hillside Avenue (otherside of Southeast Queens) and with it's express variant it addresses the major stops and other connections to other Southeast Queens bus lines. What I don't like about the Q88 is that it is not a true Southeast Queens line where most of it's work is catered to Central Queens.

The only reason why I mentioned the Q36 because It's another Southeast Queens line that does most it's work on Hillside to Jamaica. My idea would be continue the Q36 down Jamaica Avenue to New Hyde Park Road. Make corresponding limited stops to NSUH-Manhasset and terminate at Community Drive or LIE Service Road.. Eliminate the Q36 Little Neck Parkway portion and have the Q79 return back to it's normal stance on Little Neck Parkway. I'd strengthen the route to start at Queens Village LIRR. Head down Jamaica to Little Neck Parkway and terminate at Northern Blvd and not Little Neck LIRR.

[B35 via Church]

34 minutes ago, IAlam said:

Ok how about we get some things clear, your argument is that because there won't be much demand down Springfield so Q26 shouldn't be running past Oakland Gardens. My argument is that even if there isn't much demand the route should still exist. My reasoning doesn't exist to say that it's "just as, or even more successful than the current Q27" but rather its better than the current configuration of the Q27. I agree with you that the ridership won't be as great as the Q27, and I mentioned that which I'm not sure if you read that part.

You didn't provide any further clarity than what I already realize your counterargument is comprised of....

Listen, you apparently support the proposed Q26 & I don't..... Just as vehement as you are about the proposed Q26 not being truncated to Oakland Gardens as I brought up earlier, I am not going to sit here & support the entirety of a watered down, inferior version of a current route usage-wise, for reasons I already mentioned.... IDC how much service they throw at it either....

34 minutes ago, IAlam said:

Granted they might even see it fit to run every 12 or 15 minutes later down the line and I'm fine with that, but in no way do I agree it should terminate in Oakland Gardens. Reason like I mentioned in my earlier posts are part of the reason why I feel like the route should remain on Springfield. The Q27 is currently the only good link between NE and SE Queens. While you might not have care about having these routes much shorter, but for people who actually live by the Q27 (which includes me) we actually care. Those links to are crucial and getting rid of them means in order to get to SE Queens and Nassau via Jamaica on the Q44 because the Q17 isn't serving Jamaica anymore. That would add way more time then the proposed Q26. Compared to 47th Ave and the tight turns and narrow streets near QCC the Q26 goes along much wider roads and a straighter path that usually has little to no traffic. This will help make it more reliable and save a little bit of time, my guess is that based on the proposals the Q26 could shave at least 5min in travel time compared to the existing Q27 LTD. (Referring to the change in the east part only.)

The proposed Q26 (according to the MTA) is approximately 9.3 miles.... The current Q27 (according to this link on page 10) is 11.9 miles... I wouldn't exactly classify that as "much" shorter per se, but whatever... Aside from that, let's not go down that road about me not possibly caring about shorter routes because I don't support this particular proposal.... As if I don't advocate for short turns on routes in general, or have never suggested current routes be split, or truncated.....

The rest of this part of your post I'm not contesting; already opined on the proposed Q26 being faster than the current Q27....

34 minutes ago, IAlam said:

Lastly, I never said anything about Cambria Heights, or Merrick because I wouldn't know about running the route that far. That's largely outside of the normal domain of where I use the Q27. Frankly I don't use buses too often in SE Queens only on a few occasions to get to/from Green Acres. My only suggestion was that the Q78 go to Green Acres and possible serve 141st and 225th via Laurelton LIRR. That way it might have more of a ridership generator on it's southern end. The Q78 is definitely a route can either struggle a lot of be more successful then we'd all believe but As long as the MTA tries to make it have ridership generators on both ends it could possible work. Bayside has the mall, HS, Bell Blvd, and the LIRR so it's not impossible for it to carry sometimes.

The MTA already has the proposed Q78 at 10.9 miles... Assuming you'd turn the Q78 off at the Conduits to get to Green Acres, that would have it be around or about on par with the current Q27 mileage-wise... FWIW, I'd leave the thing right there proximate to the depot...

1 hour ago, IAlam said:

You've mentioned this before and I'm kinda curious, why you're ok with the MTA basically taking over the n26 with the QT34 but not the n20G?

As opposed to running Q12's to Great Neck? Q12 garners a very high amount of patronage within Queens as it is... Having it take on current n20G crowds would make matters worse for the intra-Queens riders.... Reliability wise; to the point where it'd become commonplace to seeing intra-Queens riders getting flagged, I'd want no part of it for those riders (yeah, some Northern Blvd. riders can embark on Q13's at a certain point to get to Flushing, but still).... Best that they (Q12, n20G) remain separate services AFAIC....

As for the QT34, quite frankly I think it would be quicker than the n26... That, and I'm of the belief that NICE has been trying to sabotage that route over the past couple years... It's been regressing service-wise for some time now & buses have a tendency to crawl on Hillside on top of it....

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

Me personally, I like the Hillside Avenue variant to North Shore University Hospital (Manhasset). The Q43 runs thru the core of Hillside Avenue (otherside of Southeast Queens) and with it's express variant it addresses the major stops and other connections to other Southeast Queens bus lines. What I don't like about the Q88 is that it is not a true Southeast Queens line where most of it's work is catered to Central Queens.

The only reason why I mentioned the Q36 because It's another Southeast Queens line that does most it's work on Hillside to Jamaica. My idea would be continue the Q36 down Jamaica Avenue to New Hyde Park Road. Make corresponding limited stops to NSUH-Manhasset and terminate at Community Drive or LIE Service Road.. Eliminate the Q36 Little Neck Parkway portion and have the Q79 return back to it's normal stance on Little Neck Parkway. I'd strengthen the route to start at Queens Village LIRR. Head down Jamaica to Little Neck Parkway and terminate at Northern Blvd and not Little Neck LIRR.

IDC much for the Q36 along LNP either, but having it run to North Shore Hosp. via Jamaica av & NHP rd, would be suicide on wheels.... I don't work too far from Marcus/NHP... IDK, for shits & giggles, I just might take Marcus to NHP to Jericho & see how long it'd take for me to get to Jamaica proper.... The Jericho Tpke. segment I wouldn't be a stranger to; used to take Jericho all the way down to Willis when I worked out in Mineola....

[Future ENY OP]

4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

As for the QT34, quite frankly I think it would be quicker than the n26... That, and I'm of the belief that NICE has been trying to sabotage that route over the past couple years... It's been regressing service-wise for some time now & buses have a tendency to crawl on Hillside on top of it....

IDC much for the Q36 along LNP either, but having it run to North Shore Hosp. via Jamaica av & NHP rd, would be suicide on wheels.... I don't work too far from Marcus/NHP... IDK, for shits & giggles, I just might take Marcus to NHP to Jericho & see how long it'd take for me to get to Jamaica proper.... The Jericho Tpke. segment I wouldn't be a stranger to; used to take Jericho all the way down to Willis when I worked out in Mineola....

The QT34 would be a lot faster and effective than the current N26 (not 100% sure if the rush hour variant to Jamaica still exists anymore ever since it was at LI Bus?)

Only reason why I mentioned the Q36 down NHP/Jamaica/Jericho is only because after the 257th Street stop I’d want the route to only make major stops to connect to other NICE routes along  Jericho/NHP to NSUH and skipping Little Neck Parkway all together and restructure the Q79.. You know the layout better than me. The last time i worked in the area was years ago in Mineola over by Winthrop University Hospital just right over the main line.  Hated that N24 ride if i missed the train late night to Jamaica. 
 

[N6 Limited]

 

[Cain]

The Remix map still has not updated the headways and times. Was there any talk of when they will be populated?

[Mtatransit]

On 4/7/2022 at 10:23 PM, IAlam said:

You've mentioned this before and I'm kinda curious, why you're ok with the MTA basically taking over the n26 with the QT34 but not the n20G?

Most of the ridership for n26 are riders coming from the subway/Queens going to LIJ/that whole area, hence it runs to Jamaica during PM and to Nassau AM opposite all the other routes in the area

On 4/8/2022 at 1:47 AM, B35 via Church said:

As for the QT34, quite frankly I think it would be quicker than the n26... That, and I'm of the belief that NICE has been trying to sabotage that route over the past couple years... It's been regressing service-wise for some time now & buses have a tendency to crawl on Hillside on top of it....

n26 is actually one of the route NICE improved. It went from having 2-3 trips in each direction under LIB into almost once every 30 minutes during peak period, an increase of close to 300%

On 4/7/2022 at 1:14 AM, IAlam said:

Actually I'd disagree, with the current Q27 the furthest people who to/from Flushing is usually Hempstead Ave, where people can connect to/from NICE buses. While you wouldn't get getting giant bus loads of people riding from Springfield to Flushing there is demand still. The MTA released a study a couple years back. On Page 42 and 92 it's listed that Springfield & Hillside and Union Tpk are major transfer point along that route. Additionally on Page 130 you can see that roughly 1/5 riders from Queens Village are going to Flushing. Even in that document they wanted to make a rush version of the Q27 and this was back in 2015. The Q78 is a nice route but based on the data it only caters to Bayside which had less people using the Q27 than Flushing. The Q26 as well as the Q78 would retain the ridership to Oakland Gardens, but now Oakland Gardens has a more coverage as well as a faster bus into Flushing. That's an overall win for the people in Queens Village and Oakland Gardens.
 

I never got the impression the ridership base for Q27 riders north of HHE is the same as the riders south of there. From my personal experience, everyone getting on at Flushing are off the bus by the HHE, and the riders south of there are traveling solely within Springfield

I would argue that riders on Springfield do benefit from the high frequencies the Q27 provides (from Flushing), and there is no doubt in my mind that the MTA will never provide as many buses on Springfield had it been its own route minus Flushing

On 4/7/2022 at 10:03 AM, dkupf said:

That's because there isn't a layover area at LGA.  But there will be when the renovations are complete.

I walked faster than the Q72 before... Bus was at 35th Avenue... I was at Rego Park and the bus was still in the vicinity of Corona Avenue

The primary issue is the commercial part of East Elmhurst where there are routine trucks and double parked vehicles. I can walk to Roosevelt Ave from Northern Blvd faster than the bus 

 

[Q43LTD]

I'm just throwing this out there. What would have happened if the Q88 went to 120 and not the 27 in 2004?

[B35 via Church]

On 4/7/2022 at 10:02 PM, B35 via Church said:

...Case in point - current Q53 patronage north of QB doesn't come close to tanking out on Hoffman Drive....

Should read "current SB Q53 patronage from north of QB doesn't come close to tanking out on Hoffman Drive."

----------------------------

 

1 hour ago, Mtatransit said:

n26 is actually one of the route NICE improved. It went from having 2-3 trips in each direction under LIB into almost once every 30 minutes during peak period, an increase of close to 300%

Compared to LIB's operation of the thing, sure... However, the quality of service on the route under NICE bus operation as of the past couple years has been gradually declining....

1 hour ago, Mtatransit said:

I never got the impression the ridership base for Q27 riders north of HHE is the same as the riders south of there. From my personal experience, everyone getting on at Flushing are off the bus by the HHE, and the riders south of there are traveling solely within Springfield

I mean, there is a modicum of riders that take Q27's from SE Queens to Flushing - but my thing is that it's not remotely worth creating one of these subway-dash routes, from Flushing, panning that far south along Springfield... Even though those subway-dash routes should be a variants of a core bus route (instead of the core bus route itself), I get why they would generally propose them for some of the [SE Queens - Jamaica services] & [NE Queens - Flushing services]....

Yeah, Springfield encompasses way more territory in SE Queens & those patrons/riders by far & large are seeking points along Springfield than not on the current Q27.... I would allocate way more service than every 20 minutes on that proposed Q78 & scale back the amount of service (and catchment area) they're proposing for that Q26.... Overall, they're making the route quicker to/from Flushing for less people with that proposed Q26, compared to the Q27... If you're going to break up the current Q27, do it efficiently, not create an extra layer of service along Springfield like that....

1 hour ago, Mtatransit said:

I would argue that riders on Springfield do benefit from the high frequencies the Q27 provides (from Flushing), and there is no doubt in my mind that the MTA will never provide as many buses on Springfield had it been its own route minus Flushing

...and that's a large part of the problem.

I'd say a Springfield route emanating from as far south as JFK depot would certainly hold its own, without the need to append Flushing to it... Would it be as heavily utilized as the current Q27? Of course not, as the Q27 b/w Flushing & QCC definitely holds its own, in its own right - so much so that that portion of the route could be a whole route by itself.... The current Q27 is a composite of a couple of significant ridership patterns.... But yeah, my main critique of the proposed Q78 routing-wise is that it runs up to Bay Terrace (I wouldn't run it past Northern).... Sure, people will interchangeably use those Q26's for intra-Springfield (or however you wanna put it) service, but I have zero doubt that there's going to be a clamoring for more service on that Q78...

On 4/8/2022 at 6:53 AM, Future ENY OP said:

The QT34 would be a lot faster and effective than the current N26 (not 100% sure if the rush hour variant to Jamaica still exists anymore ever since it was at LI Bus?)

Only reason why I mentioned the Q36 down NHP/Jamaica/Jericho is only because after the 257th Street stop I’d want the route to only make major stops to connect to other NICE routes along  Jericho/NHP to NSUH and skipping Little Neck Parkway all together and restructure the Q79.. You know the layout better than me. The last time i worked in the area was years ago in Mineola over by Winthrop University Hospital just right over the main line.  Hated that N24 ride if i missed the train late night to Jamaica.

Not sure what you're referring to with that question; the N26 itself was a rush hour variant (of the N25)....

If you're saying you'd want a route of sorts to make major stops to connect to other NICE routes, then you're essentially saying that the thing would run non-stop from 257th to NHP rd. itself, because after Braddock, there are no connections to other bus routes short of Jericho/NHP.... It's a massive waste of mileage to have the Q36 run along Jericho Tpke to NHP rd., then shoot up NHP rd., etc. to go on to serving North Shore Hosp... For all that, I would merely truncate the n26 at North Shore Hospital....

Curious as to how you'd restructure the Q79 though...

While I don't disagree, whatever you're thinking about how bad the N24 was, today's handling/quality of service on the n24 by NICE bus is atrocious - from the splitting of the route, to the midday headways, to the unreliable nature of the thing... It's a mess now... N24's were way more reliable than today's n24.... When the xfer scenario b/w the n20G & the n20H at LIRR Great Neck is better than the connection at RFM for the corresponding n24 services, that's a problem, because the former is certainly nothing to write home about... Lol....

2 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

I'm just throwing this out there. What would have happened if the Q88 went to 120 and not the 27 in 2004?

A certain shunning of the route.... Kind of like NJ Devils hockey is to NY-ers.

Hockey fans will still watch it because it's hockey, but it's... the devils....

[BrooklynBus]

 

Rockaway is getting screwed

https://www.rockawave.com/articles/its-my-turn-404/?fbclid=IwAR0JKGTWsUY8JwBIOkM-X9KB2WyKFq2Xd_erEWi9ceYH-2FmKh1x1ZOGF6s

[IAlam]

On 4/8/2022 at 1:47 AM, B35 via Church said:

As opposed to running Q12's to Great Neck? Q12 garners a very high amount of patronage within Queens as it is... Having it take on current n20G crowds would make matters worse for the intra-Queens riders.... Reliability wise; to the point where it'd become commonplace to seeing intra-Queens riders getting flagged, I'd want no part of it for those riders (yeah, some Northern Blvd. riders can embark on Q13's at a certain point to get to Flushing, but still).... Best that they (Q12, n20G) remain separate services AFAIC....

As for the QT34, quite frankly I think it would be quicker than the n26... That, and I'm of the belief that NICE has been trying to sabotage that route over the past couple years... It's been regressing service-wise for some time now & buses have a tendency to crawl on Hillside on top of it....

IDC much for the Q36 along LNP either, but having it run to North Shore Hosp. via Jamaica av & NHP rd, would be suicide on wheels.... I don't work too far from Marcus/NHP... IDK, for shits & giggles, I just might take Marcus to NHP to Jericho & see how long it'd take for me to get to Jamaica proper.... The Jericho Tpke. segment I wouldn't be a stranger to; used to take Jericho all the way down to Willis when I worked out in Mineola....

8 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Most of the ridership for n26 are riders coming from the subway/Queens going to LIJ/that whole area, hence it runs to Jamaica during PM and to Nassau AM opposite all the other routes in the area.

n26 is actually one of the route NICE improved. It went from having 2-3 trips in each direction under LIB into almost once every 30 minutes during peak period, an increase of close to 300%

NICE is constantly changing their schedules where it makes it difficult to get into a consistent routine. IIRC n26 had reverse peak service but it's in a constant cycle of disappearing and reappearing. It's really hard to rely on a route where the schedule often changes, especially when the frequency on that line already isn't great. Ik someone said the Q88 could make an easy extension there, but looking at what the MTA wants to do to the Q88 it feels like their throwaway route for the area. It's only purpose is to provide coverage and retain service and isn't very useful especially the further east it goes. Having that bus on the LIE the entire length would just make the service unreliable and I'm certain the MTA is aware. I'm wondering if the MTA want's to see if people will start shifting to other near by routes. The Q88 already has a bad rep by the people who use it today, and I can only see it getting worse. So if the Q88 did go to NSUH it would probably not be very popular or useful, unless people are willing to make an extra transfer to the Q75.

Though I wonder if maybe the proposed Q48 could get extended there, it wouldn't be pretty but Union Tpk wouldn't be the worst transfer point. The Q12 could possibly be another option I'd rather not do that. But honestly I'm not sure if there is any route where I'd like the idea of every trip on that line going to NSUH it would need to be a short run.

On 4/8/2022 at 1:47 AM, B35 via Church said:

As opposed to running Q12's to Great Neck? Q12 garners a very high amount of patronage within Queens as it is... Having it take on current n20G crowds would make matters worse for the intra-Queens riders.... Reliability wise; to the point where it'd become commonplace to seeing intra-Queens riders getting flagged, I'd want no part of it for those riders (yeah, some Northern Blvd. riders can embark on Q13's at a certain point to get to Flushing, but still).... Best that they (Q12, n20G) remain separate services AFAIC....

Honestly the way you feel about the n26 is the same I feel with the n20G. The peak direction of travel on both of those routes are in the opposite direction. There is so much wasted capacity on both of those routes that I sometime wonder why NICE still want's to operate it. With how NICE schedules those n20G to meet up with the n20H and n21 either you have to wait for a layover at Great Neck or risk transferring at Northern, and most days usually you end up missing the connection by min or two. If Great Neck to Flushing was treated as one line, I'd wonder if it would have been up BRT treatment already. Then again if the buses in that parts of Western Nassau and Eastern Queens weren't restricted by the border, like in some some other cities I wonder what type of service we could have. Like the MTA always says there there's not enough demand for a bus on Throgs Neck, but if a route from say Pelham Bay to Great Neck existed, I wonder what it could open the doors to in terms of connections, and job opportunities. But unfortunately I doubt NICE or the MTA would ever want to take such a risk, you'd need an agency that has the will power and control over all 3 counties. 

9 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

I never got the impression the ridership base for Q27 riders north of HHE is the same as the riders south of there. From my personal experience, everyone getting on at Flushing are off the bus by the HHE, and the riders south of there are traveling solely within Springfield

I would argue that riders on Springfield do benefit from the high frequencies the Q27 provides (from Flushing), and there is no doubt in my mind that the MTA will never provide as many buses on Springfield had it been its own route minus Flushing

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

I'd say a Springfield route emanating from as far south as JFK depot would certainly hold its own, without the need to append Flushing to it... Would it be as heavily utilized as the current Q27? Of course not, as the Q27 b/w Flushing & QCC definitely holds its own, in its own right - so much so that that portion of the route could be a whole route by itself.... The current Q27 is a composite of a couple of significant ridership patterns.... But yeah, my main critique of the proposed Q78 routing-wise is that it runs up to Bay Terrace (I wouldn't run it past Northern).... Sure, people will interchangeably use those Q26's for intra-Springfield (or however you wanna put it) service, but I have zero doubt that there's going to be a clamoring for more service on that Q78...

For the most part no, like I said earlier the Springfield has a lot of turnover that includes the people getting on from Flushing dumping out pretty quickly, but there are a small number of people that usually ride through as far as Hempstead. These are usually are typically your super commuters and/or people that need 3 legged transfers to get to work. I'm pretty sure the MTA is try not to make it worse for those people by retaining that service. I used to make that trip to RFM to Flushing as a teen connecting to the N22/24 But for some reason I also remember that sometimes the trip would take so long to get to Jamaica that I'd loose out on a transfer. So to after a while stop risking it and I started taking the Q27. I doubt it's as bad now as it was back then, but least there was an alternative to get to Flushing. Today I'd just drive there, because it's not worth the hassle of cramming on to those buses. But as for having the second bus down Springfield I usually will only support an idea if I see multiple reasons why I agree it. One of those reasons like I said earlier is that the Q78 alone isn't enough. The Q26 acts as a second frequency/short run for the busy transfer points on Springfield. South of Hempstead, I don't disagree with anyone that the Q26 and the Q78 wouldn't carry much, and the Q78 can probably handle it all on it's own.

On 4/8/2022 at 1:47 AM, B35 via Church said:

The MTA already has the proposed Q78 at 10.9 miles... Assuming you'd turn the Q78 off at the Conduits to get to Green Acres, that would have it be around or about on par with the current Q27 mileage-wise... FWIW, I'd leave the thing right there proximate to the depot...

As for the southern end even if the Q78 shouldn't go to Green Acres at the very least it should still divert to serve Laurelton LIRR to help provide a connection for the couple of riders who want to take advantage of Atlantic/City Tickets. 

[bobtehpanda]

9 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

I'm just throwing this out there. What would have happened if the Q88 went to 120 and not the 27 in 2004?

It probably wouldn't do a whole lot.

There isn't a whole lot on 188 that would draw SE Queens, and there are faster ways to get to QCM. For all its faults, the Q27 is definitely one of if not the fastest way to get to Flushing from SE Queens, and it's one seat to boot.

[N6 Limited]

4 hours ago, IAlam said:

As for the southern end even if the Q78 shouldn't go to Green Acres at the very least it should still divert to serve Laurelton LIRR to help provide a connection for the couple of riders who want to take advantage of Atlantic/City Tickets. 

Interestingly enough, they have stops marked on 225th St between Merrick Blvd and Laurelton LIRR on the Remix Map. I wonder if that was for a variation of the QT71 to Green Acres.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

1 hour ago, N6 Limited said:

Interestingly enough, they have stops marked on 225th St between Merrick Blvd and Laurelton LIRR on the Remix Map. I wonder if that was for a variation of the QT71 to Green Acres.

 

The old Q5AS "Laurelton Shuttle" used to run along 225th; it was discontinued in December 1988 as part of the service revisions for the opening of the Archer Avenue subway stations.  The bus stop pads are still there.

[B35 via Church]

59 minutes ago, IAlam said:

NICE is constantly changing their schedules where it makes it difficult to get into a consistent routine. IIRC n26 had reverse peak service but it's in a constant cycle of disappearing and reappearing. It's really hard to rely on a route where the schedule often changes, especially when the frequency on that line already isn't great. Ik someone said the Q88 could make an easy extension there, but looking at what the MTA wants to do to the Q88 it feels like their throwaway route for the area. It's only purpose is to provide coverage and retain service and isn't very useful especially the further east it goes. Having that bus on the LIE the entire length would just make the service unreliable and I'm certain the MTA is aware. I'm wondering if the MTA want's to see if people will start shifting to other near by routes. The Q88 already has a bad rep by the people who use it today, and I can only see it getting worse. So if the Q88 did go to NSUH it would probably not be very popular or useful, unless people are willing to make an extra transfer to the Q75.

Though I wonder if maybe the proposed Q48 could get extended there, it wouldn't be pretty but Union Tpk wouldn't be the worst transfer point. The Q12 could possibly be another option I'd rather not do that. But honestly I'm not sure if there is any route where I'd like the idea of every trip on that line going to NSUH it would need to be a short run.

I've said for quite some time on here that that the current Q88 has no business going as deep into Queens that it does.... The proposed Q88 going to LNP/HHE will be even more of an afterthought.... You have a certain amt. of people in this NYC online transit based community/sector (not just those that post/used to post on this particular forum) that has long clamored for a "true" HHE route, well it looks like after all these years, they'll finally get their wish....

59 minutes ago, IAlam said:

Honestly the way you feel about the n26 is the same I feel with the n20G. The peak direction of travel on both of those routes are in the opposite direction. There is so much wasted capacity on both of those routes that I sometime wonder why NICE still want's to operate it. With how NICE schedules those n20G to meet up with the n20H and n21 either you have to wait for a layover at Great Neck or risk transferring at Northern, and most days usually you end up missing the connection by min or two. If Great Neck to Flushing was treated as one line, I'd wonder if it would have been up BRT treatment already. Then again if the buses in that parts of Western Nassau and Eastern Queens weren't restricted by the border, like in some some other cities I wonder what type of service we could have. Like the MTA always says there there's not enough demand for a bus on Throgs Neck, but if a route from say Pelham Bay to Great Neck existed, I wonder what it could open the doors to in terms of connections, and job opportunities. But unfortunately I doubt NICE or the MTA would ever want to take such a risk, you'd need an agency that has the will power and control over all 3 counties. 

Why would NICE not want to operate a route (n20G) that generates as much farebox revenue as it does, compared to most the other routes in the system....

The Q12 is good for its purpose & the n20G is good for its purpose... The two provide a decent balance; for all the current passenger activity along the route within Queens as an open door route, I'm not seeing this need to fuse the Q12 with the n20G.... Furthermore, it's not like a Flushing - Great Neck route doesn't exist in any capacity - it's just not MTA operated... So I'm not seeing what further doors would be opened as far as job opportunities are concerned, if the MTA were to start up a (real) BRT-style service between the two points.... Risk has little to nothing to do with it.

59 minutes ago, IAlam said:

For the most part no, like I said earlier the Springfield has a lot of turnover that includes the people getting on from Flushing dumping out pretty quickly, but there are a small number of people that usually ride through as far as Hempstead. These are usually are typically your super commuters and/or people that need 3 legged transfers to get to work. I'm pretty sure the MTA is try not to make it worse for those people by retaining that service. I used to make that trip to RFM to Flushing as a teen connecting to the N22/24 But for some reason I also remember that sometimes the trip would take so long to get to Jamaica that I'd loose out on a transfer. So to after a while stop risking it and I started taking the Q27. I doubt it's as bad now as it was back then, but least there was an alternative to get to Flushing. Today I'd just drive there, because it's not worth the hassle of cramming on to those buses. But as for having the second bus down Springfield I usually will only support an idea if I see multiple reasons why I agree it. One of those reasons like I said earlier is that the Q78 alone isn't enough. The Q26 acts as a second frequency/short run for the busy transfer points on Springfield. South of Hempstead, I don't disagree with anyone that the Q26 and the Q78 wouldn't carry much, and the Q78 can probably handle it all on it's own.

Not sure what specifically that "no" is in response to, since you quoted both mine & @Mtatransit's posts....

As far as the Q78 not being enough, yeah it wouldn't be enough under the headways being proposed for it... I don't think anyone here is supporting that specific facet of that proposed route.... Any notion by anyone expressing a Springfield route needing Flushing, or otherwise pan west of Springfield to prosper, I refuse to concur with.... Turnover is going to happen regardless, because you're never going to create the perfect network where absolutely nobody does any sort of xferring.... The proposed Q26 is an extra layer of service being offered because they don't want to throw anywhere near current Q27-level service on the proposed Q78... You say you [never said anything about Cambria Heights, or Merrick because you wouldn't know about running the route that far] & [past Hempstead av being largely outside of the normal domain of where you use the Q27 & what not]... Well there is a history regarding Springfield Blvd. with how the MTA has been underrating/screwing it over in the SE Queens region of the borough for quite some time now....

Speaking of screwing over, the MTA does a superlative job at that with intra-city commuters with their perpetual antics, so the last thing any city commuter wants to hear about, are minimizing the # of seat rides for super-commuters taking local buses... Quite frankly, the MTA listens to the wrong people when it comes to these proposals/ideas (clearly portrayed in the first draft of this proposal) & they're not in it to truly better the commuting experience for riders....

2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

It probably wouldn't do a whole lot.

There isn't a whole lot on 188 that would draw SE Queens, and there are faster ways to get to QCM. For all its faults, the Q27 is definitely one of if not the fastest way to get to Flushing from SE Queens, and it's one seat to boot.

They should've stuck with that QT12 routing (the HHE proposal they had running between QCM & QCC) & have that Q73 cover HHE east of Springfield (like they had that QT87 doing) instead of the proposed Q88.... That Q73 doesn't need to pan south of QB to (basically) cover the current Q23 portion of Forest Hills.... Of course, this is all precipitated by frugally running the 108th st. route (proposed Q23) along QB & Union Tpke. to the Fresh Meadows Shopping Center....

[Q43LTD]

It's safe to say if they do fill in the blanks for Queens, they'll do the same for Brooklyn. 65 St crosstown, B41 Bergen Beach branch getting it's own designation. Maybe a through Ocean Av bus?

[N6 Limited]

23 hours ago, IAlam said:

For the most part no, like I said earlier the Springfield has a lot of turnover that includes the people getting on from Flushing dumping out pretty quickly, but there are a small number of people that usually ride through as far as Hempstead. These are usually are typically your super commuters and/or people that need 3 legged transfers to get to work. I'm pretty sure the MTA is try not to make it worse for those people by retaining that service. I used to make that trip to RFM to Flushing as a teen connecting to the N22/24 But for some reason I also remember that sometimes the trip would take so long to get to Jamaica that I'd loose out on a transfer. So to after a while stop risking it and I started taking the Q27. I doubt it's as bad now as it was back then, but least there was an alternative to get to Flushing. Today I'd just drive there, because it's not worth the hassle of cramming on to those buses.

I started using the Q27 to go between Flushing and QV because it was faster as well. I made the mistake of taking the bus all the way to Jamaica for the Q44 and at that time it took 20+ mins to go from Merrick Blvd & Archer to Main St & Queens Blvd. What a waste of time.

[Cain]

2 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

I started using the Q27 to go between Flushing and QV because it was faster as well. I made the mistake of taking the bus all the way to Jamaica for the Q44 and at that time it took 20+ mins to go from Merrick Blvd & Archer to Main St & Queens Blvd. What a waste of time.

Has this changed now that parts of Jamaica got a new busway and bus lanes (as useless they are when its blocked by taxi drivers and waiting cars for LIRR passengers)?

[bobtehpanda]

1 hour ago, Cain said:

Has this changed now that parts of Jamaica got a new busway and bus lanes (as useless they are when its blocked by taxi drivers and waiting cars for LIRR passengers)?

It's not just about getting through Jamaica but also to it as well. Hillside is heavily congested until you pass the Clearview Expressway for buses coming from the east.

The Q27 is busy, but it's not really slow, and very few of the roads it's on are heavily trafficked until you hit Flushing itself, and that you'd have to deal with no matter which way you try getting into Flushing.