Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[limitednyc]

Just now, Fire Mountain said:

The point I was trying to make was that I don’t see many people taking the M60 to flushing from LGA or vice versa. I agree with you in terms of its terminal outside of Lga, but I don’t think flushing would work imo

But is there a market for Flushing to harlam?

[Fire Mountain]

1 minute ago, limitednyc said:

But is there a market for Flushing to Harlem?

That too. I don’t think there is. Another reason why I think the M60 may not work heading to flushing. 

[Transit222]

On 10/11/2023 at 8:42 PM, limitednyc said:

But is there a market for Flushing to harlam?

You don't actually need direct service between Harlem and Flushing or between The Hub in The Bronx and LaGuardia Airport.  All the MTA needs to do is to make the M125 and M60SBS bus routes Fare-free, as well as any other bus route that terminates at La Guardia Airport such as the Q47, the Q48/Q50 and the Q72 all Fare-free.  Passengers from numerous bus routes in the Bronx could then take the free M!25 bus and then the free M60SBS route along 125th Street to access LaGuardia Airport for one fare thus saving any operations cost of extending the BX41SBS or BX15 Limited to LaGuardia Airport.  For riders traveling between Downtown, Flushing and Harlem that has transferred from another Queens or Manhattan bus route, would then take the free Q48/Q50 route and transfer again for free to the M60SBS or vice-versa without paying double fares.   If the MTA wants, they could also have Fare-Free on the Q19 route as well to further improve bus connections between Downtown, Flushing and Harlem.  Fare-Free buses improves interborough connections if done correctly as indicated above and ultimately reduces operations costs for the MTA by not having too many bus route extensions or too many branches of a route.   I would suggest to the MTA that have all buses that connect to LaGuardia Airport or JFK Airport become Fare-Free.  In essence a better transfer policy is needed to allow unlimited transfers on all buses and subways for at least two hours and fifteen minutes under OMNY or under the Pay-Per-Ride MetroCard or Reduced Fare Metrocard if the MTA is reluctant on adding more Fare-Free bus routes as described above. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Transit222

[IAlam]

On 10/11/2023 at 8:42 PM, limitednyc said:

But is there a market for Flushing to harlam?

I wouldn't say there's a market from Flushing to Harlem, but there is a market from Flushing to Astoria. Frankly, I don't particularly appreciate how they're slowing down the Q19, and people touting that as an improvement. The change in itself adds quite a bit of runtime to the route about 10-15 min, and they're aren't many fast east-to-west bus connections in Northern Queens (except the current Q19). This results in most people piling on to the , as getting to places like Steinway is usually faster by taking the subway rather than the Q66. But I'm skeptical if the M60 could fill in that gap solely because of the airport service. Even if the route was streamlined and Terminal A was cut, I feel like the amount of time saved over the proposed Q19 wouldn't be significant. On top of that the M60 would be more susceptible to unpredictable traffic patterns, which could negate any time savings. 

[Q43LTD]

I just realized Lakewood would have 2 routes running between Sutphin and 142. The proposed 109 and 40, similar to Liberty having the 9 and 57 between Sutphin and the Van Wyck. Lakewood is very narrow. I would move this 109 to 109 Av to Sutphin or use Liberty 

[JoshTheScrub]

I’m surprised they haven’t changed much of the Q60 route and just removed stops, they could have at least extended it?  Or made it a limited

[Bill from Maspeth]

1 hour ago, JoshTheScrub said:

I’m surprised they haven’t changed much of the Q60 route and just removed stops, they could have at least extended it?  Or made it a limited

Extend the Q60?  Isn't it long and unreliable enough?

[Cait Sith]

On 10/28/2023 at 3:11 PM, Q43LTD said:

I just realized Lakewood would have 2 routes running between Sutphin and 142. The proposed 109 and 40, similar to Liberty having the 9 and 57 between Sutphin and the Van Wyck. Lakewood is very narrow. I would move this 109 to 109 Av to Sutphin or use Liberty 

That part of 109 is a little more narrow than Lakewood.

[JoshTheScrub]

3 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Extend the Q60?  Isn't it long and unreliable enough?

Ehh.. Ig you're right on that, extending it would be trashier, they just left it as is and I don't blame them. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by JoshTheScrub

[B35 via Church]

On 11/7/2023 at 3:49 PM, JoshTheScrub said:

I’m surprised they haven’t changed much of the Q60 route and just removed stops, they could have at least extended it?  Or made it a limited

Quite honestly, I would've liked to have seen how the Q60 would perform if it were to run to Jamaica Center (over continuing to run it south of Archer, even still given the usage it does get).... With the previously proposed QT60 in the first draft, I didn't concur with the fact that they had it running to the Hunterspoint Ferry... The proposed diverting of it to Jamaica Center on the other end of the route, I didn't mind nearly as much....

If for not keeping the same/current routing, the conundrum I have, is whether:

• the route should serve E. Midtown and Jamaica Center
• the route should serve Jamaica Center, instead of  E, Midtown

For the latter, basically, would running it to Jamaica Center & all the other connections there, be worth the sacrifice for scaling the route back (on the other end of the route) from Manhattan, at say, Queensboro Plaza....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Quite honestly, I would've liked to have seen how the Q60 would perform if it were to run to Jamaica Center (over continuing to run it south of Archer, even still given the usage it does get).... With the previously proposed QT60 in the first draft, I didn't concur with the fact that they had it running to the Hunterspoint Ferry... The proposed diverting of it to Jamaica Center on the other end of the route, I didn't mind nearly as much....

If for not keeping the same/current routing, the conundrum I have, is whether:

• the route should serve E. Midtown and Jamaica Center
• the route should serve Jamaica Center, instead of  E, Midtown

For the latter, basically, would running it to Jamaica Center & all the other connections there, be worth the sacrifice for scaling the route back (on the other end of the route) from Manhattan, at say, Queensboro Plaza....

I think cutting it back to Queensboro Plaza would hurt the route. Even though it only goes to 2nd Avenue, those buses do tend to carry, especially from 2nd Avenue. Many of those people might have been able to take the Q32 but many are also going past Sunnyside into Woodside and Elmhurst. There's no subway along that part of Queens Boulevard, and dealing with the QBL is absolute horseshit on top of it. The Q60 runs better than the QBL local during parts of the day, moreso on weekends. 

I wouldn't have a problem with it serving both Jamaica Center and East Midtown. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[NewFlyer 230]

8 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Quite honestly, I would've liked to have seen how the Q60 would perform if it were to run to Jamaica Center (over continuing to run it south of Archer, even still given the usage it does get).... With the previously proposed QT60 in the first draft, I didn't concur with the fact that they had it running to the Hunterspoint Ferry... The proposed diverting of it to Jamaica Center on the other end of the route, I didn't mind nearly as much....

If for not keeping the same/current routing, the conundrum I have, is whether:

• the route should serve E. Midtown and Jamaica Center
• the route should serve Jamaica Center, instead of  E, Midtown

For the latter, basically, would running it to Jamaica Center & all the other connections there, be worth the sacrifice for scaling the route back (on the other end of the route) from Manhattan, at say, Queensboro Plaza....

I wasn’t too fond of the MTA keeping the Q60 running to 109th Ave in the last redesign plan. I get that they are trying to limit the amount of buses that terminate at these major hubs but in a lot of cases it’s necessary to have some of these routes end at the hubs.

I can see a few people transferring from buses that originate in SE Queens to the Q60 if it went to Jamaica Center. I personally believe it would be a better use of resources having it go to Jamaica Center vs having it continue to run to 109th being a short backup to the Q6. This new routing can also assist when then  is down or delayed. 
 

If the Q20 in the final plan is cut back to Briarwood the Q60 should go to Jamaica Center. 

[JoshTheScrub]

11 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Quite honestly, I would've liked to have seen how the Q60 would perform if it were to run to Jamaica Center (over continuing to run it south of Archer, even still given the usage it does get).... With the previously proposed QT60 in the first draft, I didn't concur with the fact that they had it running to the Hunterspoint Ferry... The proposed diverting of it to Jamaica Center on the other end of the route, I didn't mind nearly as much....

If for not keeping the same/current routing, the conundrum I have, is whether:

• the route should serve E. Midtown and Jamaica Center
• the route should serve Jamaica Center, instead of  E, Midtown

For the latter, basically, would running it to Jamaica Center & all the other connections there, be worth the sacrifice for scaling the route back (on the other end of the route) from Manhattan, at say, Queensboro Plaza....

Ahh yes that's what I was thinking too, It would make the Q60 a bit more reliable and less cluttered south down Sutphin. But even now the current route during rush hour many people would flock to the Q60 at Sutphin/Archer southbound to 109th/157th to take them to their local stops (including me if the Q6 is crowded). 

I also think that it could also be a Limited/Rush that way it serves a purpose, but my mind is thinking other ways it probably wouldn't work, conflicting with traffic, express buses and having it conflict with other local bus routes etc... maybe... who knows 

Edited November 12, 2023 by JoshTheScrub

[JoshTheScrub]

6 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I think cutting it back to Queensboro Plaza would hurt the route. Even though it only goes to 2nd Avenue, those buses do tend to carry, especially from 2nd Avenue. Many of those people might have been able to take the Q32 but many are also going past Sunnyside into Woodside and Elmhurst. There's no subway along that part of Queens Boulevard, and dealing with the QBL is absolute horseshit on top of it. The Q60 runs better than the QBL local during parts of the day, moreso on weekends. 

I wouldn't have a problem with it serving both Jamaica Center and East Midtown. 

That's crazy if they were thinking of terminating at Queensboro instead of Manhattan... Im glad they made up their minds a bit 

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I think cutting it back to Queensboro Plaza would hurt the route. Even though it only goes to 2nd Avenue, those buses do tend to carry, especially from 2nd Avenue. Many of those people might have been able to take the Q32 but many are also going past Sunnyside into Woodside and Elmhurst. There's no subway along that part of Queens Boulevard, and dealing with the QBL is absolute horseshit on top of it. The Q60 runs better than the QBL local during parts of the day, moreso on weekends. 

I wouldn't have a problem with it serving both Jamaica Center and East Midtown. 

Yeah, I know about its usage to/from E. Midtown & how those EB buses pick up at that stop over there (especially if WB buses arrive in bunches, which is pretty common on that route)... My concern was runtime related.

Now that I went back to check how they had buses (QT60) running to Jamaica Ctr., it shouldn't be much of a problem (could've sworn they had them turning off on Archer at Sutphin.... instead/apparently they had them go Hillside - 150th - Archer)....

4 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I wasn’t too fond of the MTA keeping the Q60 running to 109th Ave in the last redesign plan. I get that they are trying to limit the amount of buses that terminate at these major hubs but in a lot of cases it’s necessary to have some of these routes end at the hubs.

I can see a few people transferring from buses that originate in SE Queens to the Q60 if it went to Jamaica Center. I personally believe it would be a better use of resources having it go to Jamaica Center vs having it continue to run to 109th being a short backup to the Q6. This new routing can also assist when then  is down or delayed. 
 

If the Q20 in the final plan is cut back to Briarwood the Q60 should go to Jamaica Center. 

Who knows why they rescinded the original proposal to Jamaica Center... But yeah, I can also see people xferring off the Jamaica Center feeders to a Q60 of sorts.

Regardless of what ends up happening with the Q20, I would try my hand at running Q60's to Jamaica Center.

1 hour ago, JoshTheScrub said:

That's crazy if they were thinking of terminating at Queensboro instead of Manhattan... Im glad they made up their minds a bit 

Worse.... They had the QT60 terminating at the Hunterspoint Ferry.

Edited November 12, 2023 by B35 via Church

[40 to 241st]

I have started to ponder more about queens bus system and started to realize how people here hate the proposed length of the Q44. It feels like people on YouTube and casual riders seem to love that it’s being extended  north to Fordham. But I love that the people on this thread know how bad the proposed length of this route is and the same can be said for the Q10. I have been thinking about a better way of proposing this route than what Mta  did, because of how stressful riding a route like the Q44 between Jamaica and Fordham can be. I am pretty sure that people would prefer to just transfer between those two destinations. 

[limitednyc]

19 minutes ago, 40 to 241st said:

I have started to ponder more about queens bus system and started to realize how people here hate the proposed length of the Q44. It feels like people on YouTube and casual riders seem to love that it’s being extended  north to Fordham. But I love that the people on this thread know how bad the proposed length of this route is and the same can be said for the Q10. I have been thinking about a better way of proposing this route than what Mta  did, because of how stressful riding a route like the Q44 between Jamaica and Fordham can be. I am pretty sure that people would prefer to just transfer between those two destinations. 

The ? Is how meny people ride from  south of flushing to the bronx?

[40 to 241st]

9 minutes ago, limitednyc said:

The ? Is how meny people ride from  south of flushing to the bronx?

I’m sure that there’s good demand from flushing to the Bronx but I feel like a better question would be is there a need for a bus to run b/w Fordham and Jamica

 

[limitednyc]

4 minutes ago, 40 to 241st said:

I’m sure that there’s good demand from flushing to the Bronx but I feel like a better question would be is there a need for a bus to run b/w Fordham and Jamica

 

I ask this because maybe splitting the route somewhere in flushing not roservelt/main - Fordham and jamica whitestone?

 

[NewFlyer 230]

27 minutes ago, 40 to 241st said:

I have started to ponder more about queens bus system and started to realize how people here hate the proposed length of the Q44. It feels like people on YouTube and casual riders seem to love that it’s being extended  north to Fordham. But I love that the people on this thread know how bad the proposed length of this route is and the same can be said for the Q10. I have been thinking about a better way of proposing this route than what Mta  did, because of how stressful riding a route like the Q44 between Jamaica and Fordham can be. I am pretty sure that people would prefer to just transfer between those two destinations. 

I actually don’t have much issues with the Q44 going to Fordham, however I don’t think every bus needs to go there if it does become a thing. I would have several buses during rush hour turn around at Parkchester since most people are getting off Q44’s by then anyways. 
However my major issue with the proposed route is the unnecessary detour the Q44 still has to make through Whitestone via Union Street & Parsons Blvd. It should not be a thing anymore because it’s just slowing down the Q44 and demand for the Bronx along that stretch is low. Instead I would have the Q44 go up Linden and follow the Q50s path to the Bronx. Let a local route from Flushing serve Union st/Parsons Blvd. 

 

The proposed Q10 (Q10-Q64) combo was dumb all around because two unrelated bus routes were being combined all for the sake of removing all these buses from terminating at these mini hubs. The Q10 in my opinion has become more unreliable ever since its conversion to artics a decade ago. I remember when you saw nothing but buses on the Q10 and now when I take it half the time I’m seeing buses bunched up, and gaps in service. The Q64 will also have to face a noticeable decrease in service too if it had artics and I can’t see the union being too happy about having so many trips cut since the Q64 runs at headways of 2-3 minutes during rush hour.

[NewFlyer 230]

27 minutes ago, limitednyc said:

The ? Is how meny people ride from  south of flushing to the bronx?

A lot of people surprisingly but a majority of them come from Jamaica. I’ve been on buses past midnight coming from Jamaica that were standing room only and only a handful of people actually get off at the stops in between Jamaica and Flushing at those times. 

[40 to 241st]

15 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I actually don’t have much issues with the Q44 going to Fordham, however I don’t think every bus needs to go there if it does become a thing. I would have several buses during rush hour turn around at Parkchester since most people are getting off Q44’s by then anyways. 
However my major issue with the proposed route is the unnecessary detour the Q44 still has to make through Whitestone via Union Street & Parsons Blvd. It should not be a thing anymore because it’s just slowing down the Q44 and demand for the Bronx along that stretch is low. Instead I would have the Q44 go up Linden and follow the Q50s path to the Bronx. Let a local route from Flushing serve Union st/Parsons Blvd. 

 

The proposed Q10 (Q10-Q64) combo was dumb all around because two unrelated bus routes were being combined all for the sake of removing all these buses from terminating at these mini hubs. The Q10 in my opinion has become more unreliable ever since its conversion to artics a decade ago. I remember when you saw nothing but buses on the Q10 and now when I take it half the time I’m seeing buses bunched up, and gaps in service. The Q64 will also have to face a noticeable decrease in service too if it had artics and I can’t see the union being too happy about having so many trips cut since the Q64 runs at headways of 2-3 minutes during rush hour.

I like the way how you explain how you feel about this proposal. I don’t see any reason either for the Q10 and Q64 to combine. I’d prefer not to short turn that much buses at Parkschester maybe some of them but your ideas sound good 👍.

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, limitednyc said:

The ? Is how many people ride from south of flushing to the bronx?

The demand for the Q44 from areas south of Flushing, to The Bronx in general, isn't the issue; there are plenty folks riding to The Bronx from south of Flushing.... It's how deep into The Bronx is that demand warranted to/for, is the question.... With this Fordham extension bit though, I think some people, quite frankly, are treading down the path of flat out ignoring intra-Queens usage on the thing.... With the Q20's proposed truncation to Briarwood , even though its intra-Queens usage pales in comparison to the Q44, there's going to be that much more of a burden on the Q44 in & out of Jamaica....

The obvious/real issue is the basic lack of rail transit b/w the 2 boroughs.

1 hour ago, limitednyc said:

I ask this because maybe splitting the route somewhere in flushing not roservelt/main - Fordham and jamica whitestone?

That would cause way more problems than is attempting to be solved with this extension to Fordham.

For starters, they already plan on having the Q20 go Jamaica - Beechhurst, so to have Q44's from Jamaica split to end in Whitestone would massively overserve that immediate part of Queens....

1 hour ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I actually don’t have much issues with the Q44 going to Fordham, however I don’t think every bus needs to go there if it does become a thing. I would have several buses during rush hour turn around at Parkchester since most people are getting off Q44’s by then anyways...

I would end them there full time, if not for space issues....

Someone on reddit that supports the extension went as far as bringing up cutting the Bx9 back to Bronx Zoo... IDK if that's supposed to mean stopping it dead at Southern/Fordham, or running it down Southern to that entrance around 182nd, or what....

Edited November 12, 2023 by B35 via Church

[danielhg121]

25 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I would end them there full time, if not for space issues....

Someone on reddit that supports the extension went as far as bringing up cutting the Bx9 back to Bronx Zoo... IDK if that's supposed to mean stopping it dead at Southern/Fordham, or running it down Southern to that entrance around 182nd, or what....

I know my stance earlier was extending it to Fordham was a bit much but in the last few weeks, having to make the schlep up there before the AM rush, it fills a hole created in the lack of Bx9 service. The Bx9 departures out of West Farms Sq at those hours are: 1:49, 2:34, 3:19, 4:02, 4:45, 5:27 then 5:42 and getting better and better so roughly every 45 mins overnight. I would support the Q44 being extended to Fordham during the overnight hours (12AM - 6AM) to help bridge the gap. You could increase the Bx9 frequencies but I think there's a reason why the MTA chooses to spam the Marble Hill to Riverdale trips. Less deadhead time, less cost. The Q44 also taps into a good chunk of the Bx9 market with the proposed routing and for those that live along Southern Blvd, they could take the Bx17 instead. 

[B35 via Church]

6 minutes ago, danielhg121 said:

I know my stance earlier was extending it to Fordham was a bit much but in the last few weeks, having to make the schlep up there before the AM rush, it fills a hole created in the lack of Bx9 service. The Bx9 departures out of West Farms Sq at those hours are: 1:49, 2:34, 3:19, 4:02, 4:45, 5:27 then 5:42 and getting better and better so roughly every 45 mins overnight. I would support the Q44 being extended to Fordham during the overnight hours (12AM - 6AM) to help bridge the gap. You could increase the Bx9 frequencies but I think there's a reason why the MTA chooses to spam the Marble Hill to Riverdale trips. Less deadhead time, less cost. The Q44 also taps into a good chunk of the Bx9 market with the proposed routing and for those that live along Southern Blvd, they could take the Bx17 instead. 

Oh, I see people taking Q44's from Fordham over the Bx9 south of Fordham rd, simply on the basis of the proposed Q44 not running along Fordham rd...

IDK about ending Bx9's at the Bronx Zoo or whatever, but I don't doubt for a second that they're going to continue to tinker with Bx9 service/levels more than they've already been doing over the years, if/when this Q44 extension comes to fruition.... I've long been of the belief that they really solely want to run Bx9's up/down Broadway all day anyway....