Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

As a person who doesn't live in Queens, there are some things that caught my eye. These are my opinions as an outsider:

For the Q7, I wonder if there is demand for bus service on Rockaway Blvd west of Woodhaven. Seeing the Q112 replace it in Brooklyn will be interesting to see.

I wonder if having the Q8 end at the New Lots  station was necessary.

Thank the lord the Q10/64 fusion was axed. The Q11/21 fusion I'm a-okay with.

The Q26 given and significant expansion is interesting, though I wonder if the route would be efficient that way.

I like the Q27 being taken off Holly Ave. I never quite understood why it had that routing on that narrow street to begin with.

I think students of QCC benefit from the Q30 becoming a limited route to that school, though I'm not sure there is great demand for it to be that way.

It's funny seeing the little turn at Queens Plaza be removed from the westbound Q32 routing. It's also weird to see the eastbound stop at 34th St be removed. I would of cut the 32nd St stop instead.

It's funny to see the  undo what they did 10 years ago with sending the Q33 back to the airport. Was there demand for local service to the airport from residents there?

I like the Q37 being sent to the airport so that Q10 local buses would stick to Lefferts full-time.

I'm fine with the Q44 being kept at the Zoo instead of extending it to Fordham Plaza, though I do get why people liked the proposed alternative to using the Bx9 from West Farms.

I'm sure the 3 Union Turnpike variants (plus the Q75) would confuse the hell out of riders over there during the first few months.

Well, riders in The Bronx finally got the route to LGA they always seemed to want (though obviously not in the way many wanted it to be).

I kind of dig the streamlining of the Q66.

I don't know how I feel about the proposed inter-borough routes (B53 and Q68), though those are being held off until the Brooklyn re-design is implemented. I have the same concern about the re-designed B57, with service in Red Hook being axed in favor of service north of Maspeth. Same with the B62 serving 21st Street in Queens.

I'm not surprised by the overall reduction of service on express routes. I'm pretty sure the  would of preferred to get away with making all express routes in Queens rush-hours only.

I do wonder why they decided to add a stop at 1st Ave-34th St for the express routes that go to the Financial District (QM7, QM8, QM11, QM25, & the new QM65).

Again, these are just my opinions and observations from a PDF proposal. I'm pretty sure regular Queens riders would have stronger opinions than I do here.

[JoshTheScrub]

38 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

I mean is that a good thing? There's so much deadheading in opposite peak direction, it would have been better utilization of resources with overall better frequency, like how the subway lines through Manhattan run. Not too long ago I was on a PACKED Q6 to Jamaica in the PM, which was followed and preceded by deadheads.

Im neutral with the final plan cuz they are stating the bus will come every 4 minutes am to pm so Im just crossing my fingers the bus would be reliable. I live by the bus and when I go to one stop on the Q6, them buses are crowded or not in service. 

[Fire Mountain]

Sup y’all? So I’m reading the new final plan right now, and I’m surprised the 15 getting shortened to only clintonville street. I saw there’s a 62 rush or whatever, but I didn’t get to that yet. Only up to the 25 as of right now. I am disappointed the 34’s leaving, but then again I saw this coming. But what’s y’all thoughts on this final plan if y’all saw it? 

Also, idk how to feel about the 26 replacing the 65 to college point… The current 26 does come in the clutch (for me at least) but into college point? 🤔 I’m having mixed thoughts about this 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Fire Mountain

[mikecintel]

9 minutes ago, Fire Mountain said:

Sup y’all? So I’m reading the new final plan right now, and I’m surprised the 15 getting shortened to only clintonville street. I saw there’s a 62 rush or whatever, but I didn’t get to that yet. Only up to the 25 as of right now. I am disappointed the 34’s leaving, but then again I saw this coming. But what’s y’all thoughts on this final plan if y’all saw it? 

Also, idk how to feel about the 26 replacing the 65 to college point… The current 26 does come in the clutch (for me at least) but into college point? 🤔 I’m having mixed thoughts about this 

I saw the routes that I need to take and to me it is fine because they did not cut what I usually take. The Q34 (currently take) I will miss because that is my route but then they replaced it with the NEW Q61 so that is good.  At least I can take the Q61 to CVS.  Before I had to walk.  Some are good and some are bad and I can't complain.  For example the Q20 will not go to the college point shopping mall and i have to take the NEW Q62 route. But then I can take the Q20/Q44 and transfer to the Q62 so that is good at least I can transfer to get to the Q62 instead of going all the way to flushing and take the Q62 route.  I though they going to cut the LIRR Jamaica so I was worried but they didn't so that is good for me.

[Fire Mountain]

17 minutes ago, mikecintel said:

I saw the routes that I need to take and to me it is fine because they did not cut what I usually take. The Q34 (currently take) I will miss because that is my route but then they replaced it with the NEW Q61 so that is good.  At least I can take the Q61 to CVS.  Before I had to walk.  Some are good and some are bad and I can't complain.  For example the Q20 will not go to the college point shopping mall and i have to take the NEW Q62 route. But then I can take the Q20/Q44 and transfer to the Q62 so that is good at least I can transfer to get to the Q62 instead of going all the way to flushing and take the Q62 route.  I though they going to cut the LIRR Jamaica so I was worried but they didn't so that is good for me.

Regarding the 62, it’s a little weird how it’s put, but at least this way I can get to ShopRite after work a bit faster than with the current Q20A so that’s something 🤷🏾‍♂️

 

But… WHY THE HELL did they keep the 50 going to LGA 🤦🏾‍♂️ 

 

Update: YES!!!! They extended the 76 closer to where I live let’s goooo!!! 💯

Edited December 13, 2023 by Fire Mountain

[7-express]

26 minutes ago, mikecintel said:

I saw the routes that I need to take and to me it is fine because they did not cut what I usually take. The Q34 (currently take) I will miss because that is my route but then they replaced it with the NEW Q61 so that is good.  At least I can take the Q61 to CVS.  Before I had to walk.  Some are good and some are bad and I can't complain.  For example the Q20 will not go to the college point shopping mall and i have to take the NEW Q62 route. But then I can take the Q20/Q44 and transfer to the Q62 so that is good at least I can transfer to get to the Q62 instead of going all the way to flushing and take the Q62 route.  I though they going to cut the LIRR Jamaica so I was worried but they didn't so that is good for me.

The biggest con of the new Q61 is the 20-30 minute headways versus the current 10-12 the route currently has.  To be expected though since the southern part of the route that drives a lot of traffic is gone but it will be a bit of a downgrade.

At least they realized operating it for only 3-4 hours during the rush was a terrible idea and gave it a normal service span that mirrors the existing Q34.  I still think it should make all the Bayside Ave and 35 Ave limited stop along Union Street but they probably wont change that.

[danielhg121]

2 minutes ago, 7-express said:

The biggest con of the new Q61 is the 20-30 minute headways versus the current 10-12 the route currently has.  To be expected though since the southern part of the route that drives a lot of traffic is gone but it will be a bit of a downgrade.

At least they realized operating it for only 3-4 hours during the rush was a terrible idea and gave it a normal service span that mirrors the existing Q34.  I still think it should make all the Bayside Ave and 35 Ave limited stop along Union Street but they probably wont change that.

The 20-30 minute headway is going to be a headache for those living along Willets Point Blvd and further northeast but they've never gotten a local bus route especially between 149th Street and Francis Lewis Blvd so it should be interesting how this plays out.

I agree that it shouldn't stop at Bayside and 35th Ave as the Q16 and Q44 (which is significantly more frequent) can handle those loads. If it picked at both of those stops, everybody gunning for Flushing would hop on any of which come first, there would be no point in having a Rush route. 

[Future ENY OP]

9 hours ago, TDL said:

Its very underwehelming. Still no Rockaway-Sheepshead service, and they took out the Springfield Blvd crosstown. This plan is basically keeping the exact same routes.

Dead on arrival.. You don't need Sheepshead-Far Rockaway bus service.. It's overkill. Sorry.

 

11 hours ago, NBTA said:

Just saw the documents. I’m already disappointed (75% of riders wanted the Q44 to go to the Bronx High School of Science).

I don't know if it would be best to send the Q44 to BX High School of Science/Lehman College.  Fordham Plaza seems a bit suitable with better connections including Metro-North.

 

9 hours ago, DT323 said:

I can't believe they took out a bunch of promising elements from the old plan! Also, the stop removal is crazy in this new one.

This goes to show that the MTA doesn't listen to their commuters. This whole re-design plan has been boiled down with politics. You even have the transportation chair at the city council essentially giving it a thumbs down because of the coverage that is being provided in Rosedale with more lines, meanwhile little to no coverage in Far Rockaway.  The MTA fumbled on alot of good opportunties to expand bus service into Nassau County including introducing service into North Shore University Hospital (Lake Success) and expanding service into Elmont.

[7-express]

More NE Queens thoughts now that I've had a bit more time to digest the changes

Q15 - This route makes sense instead of the combo with the Q19 that would've hurt service reliability on such a long route.

Q16 - This route makes sense now that they got rid of that weird tail that went past Flushing to Fowler Ave

Q20 - Would still be better if they maintained the A/B branch instead of putting all service on the B/14th Ave branch.  Likely will be too much service on that lightly used portion but an upgrade for existing Q20B riders who contend with 20-30 min headways currently.

Q61 - 20-30 min headways will really hurt on this line, though they seem to insist it maintains or enhances current Q16 service to Clearview

Q62 - It could work but Beechhurst folks may not like going further west before going to Flushing.  20th Ave can be a crapshoot with traffic, as existing Q20A riders probably know.

 

Express bus thoughts

QM2 - Loses 30 min midday frequency.  I figured this would happen to better match actual demand and pair up better with the QM20 that is already hourly midday.  Also seems to lose its weekend service to Mitchell-Linden, which is not a good thing if they wanted to drive additional ridership.

QM3 - Big loser here as the MTA is still trying to cut the line.  They'll probably try to argue the $7 peak city ticket should make this line redundant but without a free transfer, it's a net con for riders of this line

QM20 - They came to their senses and kept midday/evening service on this route.  Largely unchanged except for a slight frequency adjustment.  Would make sense since the earlier AM buses tend to be full now while too much service runs between 7-8am.

Rerouting buses to 57 instead of 59 - I thought the DOT wouldn't allow this many buses to run on 57th at the same time?  I do prefer it on 59th but if 57th will speed up service, so be it.

 

Still need to dig into the bus stop spacing to see what stays and what goes.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by 7-express

[danielhg121]

There definitely seems to be some inconsistency with how they are labeling routes. Some say Q66 Limited when you click on their tab and refer to it as Q66 Limited, then the route profile pdf says it's Q66 Rush. The Q66 Rush is barely a rush but I digress. Same thing happens with Q49 Limited when in fact it's just a local. Q45 Rush on the webpage but Q45 Limited on the route profile pdf.  

[JoshTheScrub]

 

1 hour ago, Fire Mountain said:

Sup y’all? So I’m reading the new final plan right now, and I’m surprised the 15 getting shortened to only clintonville street. I saw there’s a 62 rush or whatever, but I didn’t get to that yet. Only up to the 25 as of right now. I am disappointed the 34’s leaving, but then again I saw this coming. But what’s y’all thoughts on this final plan if y’all saw it? 

Also, idk how to feel about the 26 replacing the 65 to college point… The current 26 does come in the clutch (for me at least) but into college point? 🤔 I’m having mixed thoughts about this 

Overall, the final plan is alright its just that this plan feels like service changes instead of an actual plan to redesign the whole network

 

Also I will be missing seeing the 34s coming through Kissena, we'll see how that goes with the 25 
 

[JoshTheScrub]

I also ask how do y'all feel about this with the congestion pricing going into affect soon?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Alright so going through a little more of the proposals more in-depth, here are my comments on the system

Some of these new overnight routes/frequencies are excessive. There's no way 46th Avenue at night needs 15-minute headways between the Q26 and Q27 (every 30 minutes each). Also this is as overnight service from other routes were cut (like previously mentioned, the B57 and Q98). 

 

Individual Routes:

Q11: I guess they finally gave up trying to serving that area north of the Conduit by the . While it does leave a bit of a gap there, it's not the end of the world I suppose. I don't have a problem with it serving Lindenwood, although at that point I would have called it a Q21 as it resembles more of that route but whatever. The overnight boost, it'll be interesting I suppose, although we'll see whether ridership catches on with the 30 minute headways. What I liked about the Q21 in the previous draft was that it directly served the Q29 route north of Queens Boulevard, including overnight hours. Given the proposed frequency boost I would extend it to 82nd Street at night, to cover that part of the Q29 and provide some semblance of Q29 overnight service overall. It would also give overnight riders the option of the  for whenever the QBL is screwed. 

Q14: Cutting the route back from Fresh Pond Road  is just outright dumb. That's not an easy walk and much of nobody is gonna do that for the subway. There might be an uptick in both Q58 and Q67 riders if that happens. Way I see it, this may also be a way to try to cut the route's popularity / potential before it begins. It's a relatively fast route between Ridgewood and Corona (runs on less congested streets than either the Q58 or Q98), and it serves a lot more of Corona than either route to boot. Speaking about Corona, while ridership on the Q23 tends to tank at Roosevelt, I don't know that I see the Q14 having more through riders there either.

Q20: The previous draft plan probably had the best iteration of a Main Street local north of Flushing. My one gripe with the route as a whole was it serving the Briarwood subway station instead of Union Turnpike. Space issues I suppose, but still, there's more going on at Union Turnpike than at Briarwood. Anything ending there is a stub. Additionally, from the Main Street side it's also rather convoluted process to get to/from the platform. Not to mention the  skips the station during most daytime hours on weekdays. This is basically them giving the Q20B full-time service, and replacing what was an IMO decent route with the Q20 to Beechhurst in draft 2 with a hodge-podge of routes (I'll get to those some other time).

Q23: If you've ever been to Corona Plaza you'll know how much of a shitshow it can be with all the traffic, the parked vans/trucks, food vendors and pedestrians all over the place. Well they're apparently gonna terminate them there, and I have no idea how that's gonna. Even though from a ridership perspective it does make sense since most ridership from either direction get off at Roosevelt Ave, I still think it's gonna be hell over there to layover and whatnot. That spells disaster. 

If they're seriously considering this route, I would have gone with extending the thing to Junction Boulevard.  I also think that there should be an eastern Roosevelt Avenue bus route from 74th Street (traveling via Elmhurst Hospital and Broadway/Britton Ave between 74th and 82nd) into Corona as well, which they haven't included. I don't know if the Q23 would be ideal since it may kill its reliability, but that is an option. 

Q26: Having the Q26 run up to College Point is even more pointless than the previous Q27 proposal to College Point. I don't think the previous Q26 proposal was necessarily a bad idea minus a few tweaks here and there. Also, they're giving this route overnight service on top of the Q27 and overserving 46th Avenue at night with 15 minute frequencies, JFC. The Q65 should have been kept going to College Point, it already has and is also proposed to continue having overnight service. What's the end game here?

Q29: Glad to see they're keeping the route. Route wise it should not have been eliminated, although I wish they would have provided more frequent service during evening hours on weekends (and in particular on Sundays). 

Q30 / Q31: Utopia Parkway is getting SCREWED HARD. With the Q30 being split into the Q30 (which runs down Utopia) and Q75 (which does not run down Utopia), you only have the Q31 on weekends. Now that doesn't necessarily sound like the end of the world, until you look and see that they're keeping the exact same frequency and service span as it is now (8 AM - 8 PM Saturdays, 9 AM - 7 PM Sundays). This is a steep cut from they proposed on the Q31 in the previous draft. Now, 24 hour service from the very first draft was excessive, but JFC did they not realize this when assigning the frequencies/headways? It's a massive service cut on weekends, south of the LIE. 

It's not only on weekends though where they're seeing cuts, it's also during rush hours apparently. The Q31 will be the only local route along Utopia (since the Q30 only stops on Union Turnpike), and rush hour service is apparently being reduced? SMH.

Q32/Q60: Buses skipping Queens Plaza North is something that I'm not surprised about them trying to get away with because it does get pretty congested and it is hard to make that turn off of Northern onto 41st Ave. However that stop at Queens Boulevard & Jackson is equally hard to get to from most of the Queens Plaza area, so something has to give. The bypassed stops are where any ridership into Manhattan is coming from. 

Also with the Q32, I personally think that this route should have overnight service. I think it would fair well. They can justify running overnight service on the damn B53 but not the Q32 (which is not even as duplicative to the  as it the B53 is to the )?

Q33: If any of the two NB routes between the Q32 and Q33 should be changed, is should be the Q32 to serve 83rd Street instead of vice-versa. You just miss the 82nd Street station, as well as the areas and businesses located there and points east, as well as along 83rd Street. I'm guessing it's the easy + cheap way to send the thing into LGA. Now as far as some other comments regarding the return of the Q33 back to LGA, I'm not exactly fazed by it because it serves a completely different area than the Q70, but also a compromise for those not near 74th Street and wishing to get to the airport (those of which got screwed over back in 2013). I'd rather have that and deal with the LGA shuttle buses, then trying to take it out to 94th Street and wait for a Q72 or M60. 

Q36: Quite honestly, if that's the proposed routing why bother serving Hillside Avenue. It could have still been a rush route or whatever they wanna call it, but it could have stayed on Jamaica Avenue, to then hit Jamaica Center and head up to the  at Parsons Boulevard. Hillside Ave already has the Q1 and Q43, and the only segment you're left to cover with is Springfield Boulevard. With the Q1 frequencies I don't think branching it would be a big deal. Anyone that far out east needing Hillside Avenue in particular would have to hop on the n24 (which would be the case on weekends). 

 

[checkmatechamp13]

8 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

The Q37 has 2 branches and the 112 goes to Euclid Av. Another Merrick route is added. Ehhh

The Q37 has one branch under this plan.

8 hours ago, Ex696 said:

Disappointed the Q7 was removed from Falcaros Plaza. Instead of at least sending it back to the Cargo Area, they have it ending at even greater of a stub....at least the reroute to 75th Street-Elderts Lane stayed. The 24-hour service is also nice.

I agree, that Q7 extension would've made it much more useful on the eastern end.

8 hours ago, IAlam said:

I haven’t gotten the chance to look at much yet, but just glancing at the map they walked it back so much. This is basically the Bronx redesign all over again. 

Amen to that

8 hours ago, IAlam said:

The sad this is there were some good proposals that were taken out too. No more 43 LIJ is no more, the old 36 remains, They didn’t even bother trying to salvage Fresh Meadows to Forest Hills (73), and the new 75 is just ??? So far I don’t hate it but, it’s boring to say the least they played it too safe. 

Can't say I'm in the same boat with you...in an all-or-nothing scenario, I would've taken the previous plan over this one in a heartbeat...

8 hours ago, IAlam said:

Looks like they walked back almost all the express bus changes but too. But they seem adamant about the QM65. They walked back the Q4 to Elmont and instead gave us the QM64 to Elmont 😂.

Yeah...wonder what was up with that...

7 hours ago, NBTA said:

The Q51s downfall; it went from an SBS line to Gateway Mall, to only being a Limited to Rockaway Boulevard, seems like people didn’t really want this line.

On the contrary, they make a point to mention on page 18:

Quote

Some new route proposals were well-received (e.g., new Q51 on Linden Boulevard)

The original version was great in terms of connectivity, but had way too large of a gap between stops. In the New Draft Plan, they added back stops, and in the Proposed Final Plan, they cut it back to Rockaway Blvd. The route itself is still a solid route, but I do think there would've been a good advantage to having a connection from Woodhaven Blvd to Gateway Mall (now with the Q8 being cut back to Euclid Avenue, it's a three bus ride from the Woodhaven Blvd corridor to Gateway Mall).

Speaking of some of their comments.

Quote

Customers liked the new interborough routes and other proposals that would expand the reach of the Queens Bus Network into harder-to-reach areas (e.g., B57, B62, Q51, Q78)

...so we took it out of the plan...very smart...

6 hours ago, azspeedbullet said:

as a middle village resident where my daily commute requires the Q47 to the 7 train, i am very happy and excited for that the routes stays the same because that's the quickest way to get to the 7 train. the purpose reroute of the Q47 to flushing was very horrible and way out of the way

Are you referring to the Q14/QT82 to 103rd Street being the closest option rather than being able to take the Q47 to 69th Street?

5 hours ago, TheNextGen2009 said:

I was kind of disappointed that there wouldn't be a 73rd Avenue bus service, but I wonder if it had to do with little demand for it. 

No, it was due to NIMBYs along the route...

5 hours ago, TheNextGen2009 said:

In terms of the Q75, I think they should've kept the old proposal. No reason for it to be in Briarwood at all. In fact, I don't think the Q30 should've been touched at all.

I did a double-take when I saw you mentioned Briarwood...I guess they didn't want too many buses at Kew Gardens...but yeah I agree...they should've just stuck with the plan of running it straight down 73rd Avenue...maybe run it to Forest Hills if they don't want it to go to Kew Gardens.

5 hours ago, TheNextGen2009 said:

Q42 maintains its existing route, which is okay.

It should've started at Jamaica LIRR station and taken Sutphin to Brinkerhoff...would've been much better than all of the meandering it does...if necessary, it could go down Brewer instead the connection to Jamaica Center is needed.

5 hours ago, TheNextGen2009 said:

It's like they saw the Q24 wasn't going there anymore and tried to figure out a route to replace it, reversed the numbers, and thought about giving the Q42 some service past to Parsons/Archer.

Honestly, that's what I thought when I first saw the proposal...very random...

5 hours ago, TheNextGen2009 said:

Q68. I was kind of thinking it would stay, but at the same time I had my doubts. Kind of surprised it remains on the Final Proposal Plan.

Well something needs to cover that section of Williamsburg served by the lower section of the B24...this Q68 doesn't resemble the original one at all in Queens. I get that they figured they were connecting two major hubs (WBP and Jackson Heights) via a highway, but they should've just stuck with the original plan. Service across the 39th Street bridge from Sunnyside to Astoria was very widely requested in the first round of outreach back in Spring 2019.

On to some of the comments/responses from the MTA themselves (the top 25 most commented routes that they have buried on their website)

Quote

Q44 - About 75% of comments were asking for an extension further north into the Bronx to serve Bronx High School of Science

So because a bunch of foamers asked for a ridiculous extension, we had to get rid of a reasonable extension...makes perfect sense...

Quote

Q23 - Loss of direct connection from Forest Hills to 108 St

So that connection from the southern section of Forest Hills to 108th Street was maintained...at the expense of the Corona - Forest Hills riders...so now anybody from North Corona who needs to connect to the Queens Blvd express trains to Jamaica is SOL....

Quote

Q17 - Loss of direct connection from NE Queens to Jamaica

From what, the 64th Avenue stop in Fresh Meadows...they could've just routed the Q30 down 188th Street and called it a day.

Quote

Q67 - Loss of connection from Forest Av to various schools in Sunnyside and LGA Community College

Response: Withdrew proposed changes; proposed Q67 (should be Q39 if they cared to proofread) maintains this connection

 

Quote

Q52 - Commenters liked the extension to Jackson Heights

Partial Response: This route was proposed for a full discontinuation in the original Draft Plan...

Yeah...let's rewrite history and pretend that it was the Q52 that we tried to discontinue, and not the Q53...and let's forget that we tried to cram a whole bunch of routes into the terminal bays at Victor Moore Terminal...

Quote

Q66 - Commenters liked the extension to Hunters Point ferry

...so we took that out of the plan...

 

[mikecintel]

6 hours ago, Fire Mountain said:

Regarding the 62, it’s a little weird how it’s put, but at least this way I can get to ShopRite after work a bit faster than with the current Q20A so that’s something 🤷🏾‍♂️

 

But… WHY THE HELL did they keep the 50 going to LGA 🤦🏾‍♂️ 

 

Update: YES!!!! They extended the 76 closer to where I live let’s goooo!!! 💯

It is wired about the Q62 but hey at least you can get there faster to ShopRite.  That is a plus!  Yeah about the Q50 that is odd but then it is a long stretch.  Great I am glad that extended the Q76 closer to where you live.  This final draft has pro and cons and it depends on where people if it is good or bad their buses after this final redesign.

[mikecintel]

5 hours ago, 7-express said:

The biggest con of the new Q61 is the 20-30 minute headways versus the current 10-12 the route currently has.  To be expected though since the southern part of the route that drives a lot of traffic is gone but it will be a bit of a downgrade.

At least they realized operating it for only 3-4 hours during the rush was a terrible idea and gave it a normal service span that mirrors the existing Q34.  I still think it should make all the Bayside Ave and 35 Ave limited stop along Union Street but they probably wont change that.

Yes that is the biggest con because I leave my house at 5:00A and I wake up at 3:30A or so to go to work in Brooklyn.  Sometimes I can't sleep ugh so I wake up at 2AM in the morning can't sleep or I fell asleep and my alarm clock goes off at 4:00AM.  When they have the public meeting via zoom I can't wait for 20-30 if I miss the first but because I will be late for work.  I have to let them know to adjust it back to the 10-12 minutes for the Early Morning AM bus.  I can't believe that the AM peak it will 18 minutes and they should make 10 minutes.  For the Mid-day it should be 15 minutes and the PM peak should be 10 minutes.  For the late evening it should be 15 minutes.  Yes at least they realized that the 3-4 hours was horrible because I was like that crazy.  Then I would have take the Q15 to Flushing to take the subway if I am off from work and I have go to Dr appts.  Thank god they changed it.

Re-guarding the Q15 it is MUCH better on how they proposed the times and they should have that scheduled be the same as for the NEW Q61 route.  When they have that meeting I have tell them that.  That would be great if they make it all the way to Bayside Ave and 35 ave. Tell them that when they have the meeting via Zoom.  But the bummer thing is if I have to go to the Jamaica LIRR when the 7 train is not working just like last month or so they did weekend and it went to Monday I went to Jamaica to take the LIRR and if it was the same that happens I would have to go to Flushing and get the Q25 bus to go to the LIRR Jamaica since they still would end there thank god.

[Cait Sith]

Not a big fan of this draft to be honest, since it's more of the old with just some minor adjustments here and there and a sprinkle of previous draft ideas. But, I will say, thank GOD they axed the Q10/Q64 and the Q112/Q110 mergers. There was quite a bunch of ideas that I liked from the previous plan that I would've liked to have seen, such as the Q43 to LIJ, the Q17 between Union Turnpike & College Point(one of my favorites personally), the Q45 flanking the Q43 on Hillside until Little Neck Parkway, the proposed Q78, the Q66 to the Ferry Terminal, and a few more ideas. A lot of what was revealed in the draft, I heard about since August. Me personally, I actually wanted to see the craziness that would ensue with the Q21, Q52 and Q53 terminating at Jackson Heights lol.....

Prior to the release of this draft(now that I can actually talk about this), some routes were changed(again). The Q65 was initially going to terminate in the Hollis area and the Q25 was close to maintaining its southern terminal down at Springfield Blvd, but the local community leaders and politicians put the kibosh on that pretty hard. The Q55 was also very close to sticking with the previous plan.

Q11 being the sole Woodhaven Blvd route was strictly for cost-cutting.

Q66 should've still served the Ferry Terminal, especially now that the Q63 is flanking alongside the Q66.

The new Q45 exists as a way for them to eliminate the Springfield Blvd short turns along the Union Turnpike corridor(from what I was told).

The Q37 was a compromise with residents that relied on the connection with the , since the Q10 would solely be on Lefferts Blvd. The only reason that it still serves the casino under this new plan is because the casino owners themselves are paying for the service. Initially, there was a plan in which the Q37 would discontinue serving the casino, and another route would take it's place, rumor was the Q7.

Pretty happy that they actually added a stop at 34th/1st for the Downtown Express routes. Easily(and shockingly) one of the most logical things to come from this plan.

Now, the Q56 is basically the only route that serves Jamaica Hospital. That's not gonna fair well in the long term.  They have no idea what to do with serving the hospital.

I'm lowkey curious as to how the B57, the Q75 and the Q104 will work. I'm still baffled as to why the B62 is what it is.

I very much favored the previous Q72 plan of terminating at Queens Center Mall. That one made a lot more sense.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Cait Sith

[mikecintel]

5 hours ago, danielhg121 said:

The 20-30 minute headway is going to be a headache for those living along Willets Point Blvd and further northeast but they've never gotten a local bus route especially between 149th Street and Francis Lewis Blvd so it should be interesting how this plays out.

I agree that it shouldn't stop at Bayside and 35th Ave as the Q16 and Q44 (which is significantly more frequent) can handle those loads. If it picked at both of those stops, everybody gunning for Flushing would hop on any of which come first, there would be no point in having a Rush route. 

But there is a plus side. Now who ever needs to go to CVS on Francis Lewis Blvd can take the bus for people who are living on Willets Point Blvd.

[NBTA]

Looking at the overnight map, I noticed a couple of things..

All of Whitestone has to rely on the Q20/44/50 around parsons, and the Q28 around bay terrace, which could’ve been negated by having at least one (preferably the 76) bus line run overnight.

The only corridor that isn’t SBS that retained ALL of its service is Guy R..says a lot.

The Q26 becomes a shuttle, College Point-Flushing only.

The Q11 terminates at 157th and Cross Bay overnight. 

Every other bus line that heads within an airport runs all night, why couldn’t the Q72 also get that notion?

The Q69 should run overnight.

The Q22 should also run overnight.

I’m torn between the 66 or the 63 running overnight.

Overall, I feel bad for overnight Whitestone, Richmond Hill, Middle Village and Oakland Gardens riders. Gotta take these Ubers to and from trains, or long walks from the bus.

[mikecintel]

32 minutes ago, NBTA said:

Looking at the overnight map, I noticed a couple of things..

All of Whitestone has to rely on the Q20/44/50 around parsons, and the Q28 around bay terrace, which could’ve been negated by having at least one (preferably the 76) bus line run overnight.

The only corridor that isn’t SBS that retained ALL of its service is Guy R..says a lot.

The Q26 becomes a shuttle, College Point-Flushing only.

The Q11 terminates at 157th and Cross Bay overnight. 

Every other bus line that heads within an airport runs all night, why couldn’t the Q72 also get that notion?

The Q69 should run overnight.

The Q22 should also run overnight.

I’m torn between the 66 or the 63 running overnight.

Overall, I feel bad for overnight Whitestone, Richmond Hill, Middle Village and Oakland Gardens riders. Gotta take these Ubers to and from trains, or long walks from the bus.

The Q26 also goes to Fresh Meadows too but they extended to college point and it's going to be 24/7 service which is great. Especially for people who works the night shift.

[B35 via Church]

Shout out to @Cait Sith for shooting me a quick msg. about this.

Let's see what we got with this:

Q1: Far better than what was proposed in the draft plan, but AFAIC, they still got it wrong.... I get doing away with the Springfield Branch, but why the f*** is Braddock getting all that service????

Q4: I was actually looking forward to that slight extension to Elmont that was proposed in the 2nd draft; too bad it didn't fall through...

Q5: While I still think they're unnecessarily butchering service along Merrick Blvd, I don't see why this wasn't an original short turn of the current Q5 (instead of running buses to LIRR Rosedale) to begin with....

Q6: Sigh of relief when I scrolled down to see how they would change this route that they didn't change this route (given that they did away with that frugally, moronic Q1/Q6 combination in the draft plan)...

Q7: *nods head in agreement* upon looking at this new change.... It was time to cut the cord with the current routing west of Woodhaven/Cross Bay blvd's (as in, the Sutter av, etc. routing).... That part of Rockaway Blvd. north of the needs the service... Watch Q24 ridership in that immediate area almost instantly plummet (current Q24 needs less of a strain put on it anyway; route is rather long, drawn out, and rather sluggish...)... Also, the proposal in the draft plan that had it [Q7] running to Cedarhurst, glad that wasn't considered... It'd have been too much; tantamount to a waste of mileage AFAIC.... That shopping plaza over there at Rockaway Tpke/Burnside would've made for a poor terminal anyway.... I don't have too strong of an opinion either way about stopping it short of Cargo Rd....

Q8: Upon scrolling downward in this PDF, I thought that they'd maintain the current routing.... Instead, they maintained the routing in the prior draft of the proposal (as in, running it to New Lots instead).... I'm not complaining in the slightest, because I've been saying that the current Q8 in Brooklyn, for the most part, isn't much more than a B13 supplement... The new Q8 OTOH will fill a void in the current network that's going to instantly do away with having people take B15's to JFK for the Q3 to get to Jamaica (there are quite a number of people that do this; more than some of you might think).... Even if they would've added more stops than what was originally proposed, thank f*** they didn't revert back to what was proposed in the original QT5 routing-wise....

Q9: *snaps fingers*... I was hoping beyond hope for an extension to Lefferts AIRTrain... So it's just going to end where the current Q37 does, via 130th st.... It is what it is... Still will be a nice little route nonetheless...

Q10: If I would've scrolled down to see that they still had this being extended over the current Q64, I'd have just stopped posting altogether.... If someone told me going in that they scrapped that BS, I'd have figured that they'd just have it be a full on Lefferts Blvd. route....

Q11: Always thought that every trip should serve both Hamilton & Old Howard Beach, I've been proposing that for ages.... Surprised that they decided to include serving Lindenwood with such a route... Don't dislike it per se, but I'm not exactly high on it either... This looks good on paper (definitely better than that QT88 bullshit that was proposed in the original draft plan), but I want to see how this is going to end up panning out logistically...

Q12/Q13: Simply don't care for the Northern/Sanford swap.... I can see people in Flushing being quite pissed off at this.

Q14: From the prior rendition of the draft plan, it looks like they just scrapped the portion along Fresh Pond.... Anyway, I get filling the void in Corona, but something about this route still bothers me... Can't quite put my finger on it.... The whole route just screams filler to me.... *shrugs*

Q15: Ok, the demographics have significantly changed since the old Q14 terminated there, and I get wanting to scale the route [Q15] back from Beechhurst.... However, I still don't see having buses ending at Clintonville/7th on a full time basis being viable.... I'm not sure to what/where, but I don't see that particular change lasting all that long....

Q16: TBH, I wanted to see how things would work with having a route pan through the heart of Flushing, panning south along College Point Blvd.... In any event, I'm not sure I get the logic behind scrapping the more utilized branch of the current route (Francis Lewis) to overserve the branch that's significantly weaker... At least they have it still running to Ft. Totten & not stubbed to where the current Q31 ends at (27th/Francis Lewis), like as proposed in the prior draft plan...

Q17: SMH.... This was one of the routes I didn't want to have be retained.... I personally liked the prior proposed Q17 between College Point & Fresh Meadows.

Q18: Whatever.

Q19:  YGBFKM..... They retained the route [Q19], to have the Q50 go to LGA via Roosevelt & 108th???? I know that's more of a critique for the Q50, but that is utterly stupid... What would've been so hard to just have the Q19 diverted to run along that stretch in question?

Q20: Figured they'd revert service to Jamaica, but why introduce it to Jamaica av? That is going to slow the route down quite noticeably in Jamaica... On the other end of the route, interesting that they're keeping 14th av service & canning 20th av service... AFAIC, for all that, they may as well just have it completely replace the current Q34 at & north of Flushing proper, instead of just having it replace the Q34 through Mitchell Gardens....

Q22: To hell with (for the purpose of) LIRR Far Rockaway, those project heads will be the main ones benefiting from that northward extension in Far Rockaway (I do agree with the idea though).... On the western end of the route, yeah, even Ray Charles saw that shit coming.... They could at the very least have service to Riis Beach during the summer season....

Q23: Lol, yeah right, truncating this to terminate at Corona Plaza.... That's going to be quite the adventure.... I honestly think they resorted to this b/c they couldn't think of what else to do with the portion of the route south of QB.... From a usage standpoint, it makes far more sense to truncate the route at QB from the north, than to truncate the route at Roosevelt from the south...

Q24: Not surprised with the cutback to B'way Junction... The changes on the Jamaica end will have it spending less time in Jamaica, but at what cost to ridership... People do not use Q24's & Q56's interchangeably at all... I don't see many people bothering using Q56's to get to Jamaica Hospital....

Q25: Figured they'd maintain the current routing... Has no business running way down to Springfield Gardens, even if they previously proposed ending it over there by the Whitestone Expwy....

Q26: Previously proposing running it to Cambria Hgts. was just plain dumb, so I'm glad they rescinded that... At the same time, running this over the current Q65 route in College Point on those headways aint it. either.... The Q26 is a poor route choice to try to use as (what I like to call) a dual ended feeder; the demand for College Point & the demand for areas along it south of Flushing proper (especially sharing the same routing as the Q27 before turning off for Hollis Ct. Blvd) is quite stark.....

Q27: Taking buses off of Holly was one of those things that was long overdue, but I didn't actually see them ending up doing something about.... The truncation to Springfield/Francis Lewis is *whatever*, I guess....

Q29: I didn't think they'd actually revert it; thought they were going to keep that proposed Q80 TBH....

Q30: Strange choice for a rush route... While I don't necessarily have a problem with having it end at QCC, I do think they're overemphasizing QCC.... And what is this about "Splitting the Q30 branches into two separate routes allows riders to better differentiate which route to take based on their destination."? Didn't know service to QCC was considered a branch, but whatever....

Q31: I mean it's straighter & all, and it won't end in the middle of much of nothing anymore (as in the current Q31 terminal in Bayside), ending over there at the Bay Terrace library with the Q28 via the shopping center instead.... At the same time, I see this losing overall ridership, compared to the current Q31...

Q32: If you look at the strip map, it don't look like much of a change at all... But buses are gonna go straight to Manhattan from Queens Plaza, instead of serving Queensboro Plaza subway... I'm somewhat torn on that, agreeing with it more than disagreeing with it... Getting to Queens Plaza North from Queens Blvd heading west is very cumbersome.. That left turn off Northern onto Queens Plaza North is hell - and what exacerbates matters is cars going in/out of that parking garage for that Hilton....

Q33: LMFAO !!! This one came straight out of left field; didn't expect to scroll down to see this... This is likely an attempt to make it more useful, because north of Astoria Blvd, there is just too much air currently being carried on this thing.... Could also be an "answer" to the critique of the Q70 not serving Terminal A, who knows.... The Q33 was always more popular than the Q47 from Moore Terminal anyway...

Q35: Yes, straighter (in Queens), but I honestly think this is going to be a deterrent... I see Newport riders being petty enough to not even bothering with the new Q35 b/c of the shift down to Rockaway Beach Blvd. (looking at that stop list though, I'll admit I didn't realize there were that many stops along Newport)... I also think ending it at the ferry terminal is much ado about a bunch of nothing.... Not looking forward to the stop removals at Av S Queens-bound & Utica Av Brooklyn-bound, as it makes it more infeasible for me to catch the thing coming off the B46... Oh well...

Q36: Thank f*** they didn't retain that proposed Q57.... Also glad that they kept service along the 212's (212 pl, 212 st); albeit not being with the Q36, which will be shifted to Springfield, which is something I proposed (although I had it branched with the 212's, instead of it solely serving Springfield).... I'll admit, I'm surprised that they kept service to Little Neck with the Q36, instead of retaining that Q45...

Q37: I'm not as surprised upon seeing this change, because I was previously apprised of this possibly happening to the Q37.... Anyway, this instantly makes it more useful, but at the same time, it's meandrous as shit.... Quite sure most will still gun for the Q10, but I'm curious to see how utilized the new Q37 will fare in/out of JFK....

Q38: Meh, So they just got rid of the Eliot half of the route (to have that new Q14 cover it, from E. Elmhurst).... It'll still have its riders, but my outlook for this new Q38 is not all that great... I didn't expect it to be retained, but at the same time, I expected more to happen with the route....

Q39: Hmm.... While I'm okay with it being basically retained, I scrolled down with the expectation that the route would drastically change.... Only change to the thing was the course b/w Court Sq. & QBP, which was meandrous anyway, which I hardly see affecting ridership one way or the other....

-----------------------------------

I'll stop here for now... Will get to the rest of this later on..... Still don't care for all the stop removals & the whole red/green/blue/purple shit as separate route types for each individual route, but as far as the routings are concerned, I'm not nearly as miffed as I came in expecting to be (largely because of what I'm seeing so far, routes are being rolled back & the more idiotic proposals in the previous proposal/draft have been thrown out)... Hope the trend continues upon scrolling down the rest of this PDF.

[BrooklynBus]

5 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

 

 

...so we took it out of the plan...very smart...

 

 

The B57 is still in the plan.

[7-express]

1 hour ago, mikecintel said:

The Q26 also goes to Fresh Meadows too but they extended to college point and it's going to be 24/7 service which is great. Especially for people who works the night shift.

On the remix map, it shows the Q26 has a few different service patterns.  The overnight service pattern seems to be just the current Q65 route between College Point and Flushing only.  Not sure if the southern part past Flushing will maintain the current service span.

[xD4nn]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Q30: Strange choice for a rush route... While I don't necessarily have a problem with having it end at QCC, I do think they're overemphasizing QCC.... And what is this about "Splitting the Q30 branches into two separate routes allows riders to better differentiate which route to take based on their destination."? Didn't know service to QCC was considered a branch, but whatever...

In my opinion, if they want a bus route to go to Briarwood via 188th, they should keep the existing Q30 intact and have the QCC "branch" be the one heading to Briarwood. Like you said, I don't get why they are overemphasizing QCC, there is barely any ridership over there except when school is dismissed. They can run a few school trippers on the Q30 if necessary.

[NBTA]

2 hours ago, mikecintel said:

The Q26 also goes to Fresh Meadows too but they extended to college point and it's going to be 24/7 service which is great. Especially for people who works the night shift.

The overnight route only goes from College Point to Flushing. That’s what I was specifying.