Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Sylveon]

Really did not like how they made the Q16 trips all Utopia when everyone uses Francis Lewis trips. 

 

Instead, have the Q61 serve utopia Pkwy from Willets Point to Utopia and 26th.

 

This way, service on Francis Lewis doesn't get cut (weekend service on Francis Lewis is especially bad, so cutting even more service makes it worse)

Edited December 26, 2023 by Sylveon

[Sylveon]

then you have the Q30 and Q75.... that's gonna piss off a lot of people..... cuz why terminate at Briarwood... Kew Gardens would've been better

 

the Q62 ehhhhhhh idk, 

 

the Q20 on 14th Av and not 20th???? those businesses in the mall are definitely losing customers then. 

 

 

[NBTA]

15 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Hmmm..... There's a game where you can create a (bus) network on steam?

City Bus Manager, they just released an electric bus dlc, game is I believe either 24.99 or on sale at the moment.

 

8 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

Honestly, alot of this new plan is just shuffling deck chairs. What happened to expanding SBS? Right off the bat Q46, Q66, Q60, Q69, Q43, Q4, Q5, Q6, Q111 should all be SBS. I do love the new Q98 thou. Personal note: MTA *refuses* to up frequency on the Q53/Q52. Why?

The Q5 was the only one on this list that was going to be SBS, that got canned. 

The rest of these won’t really need SBS, you also choose the wrong Guy R route (Q113/114), and honestly the only one that needs a change is the Q6. Bunching out the wazoo and, extremely crowded buses. I used to have a partner that lived in south Jamaica, and seeing all those crowded Q6s makes me believe that it should be an artic route.

[NBTA]

4 minutes ago, Sylveon said:

Really did not like how they made the Q16 trips all Utopia when everyone uses Francis Lewis trips. 

 

Instead, have the Q61 serve utopia Pkwy from Willets Point to Utopia and 26th.

 

This way, service on Francis Lewis doesn't get cut (weekend service on Francis Lewis is especially bad, so cutting even more service makes it worse)

Where’s the stats on that one sir?

5 minutes ago, Sylveon said:

then you have the Q30 and Q75.... that's gonna piss off a lot of people..... cuz why terminate at Briarwood... Kew Gardens would've been better

 

the Q62 ehhhhhhh idk, 

 

the Q20 on 14th Av and not 20th???? those businesses in the mall are definitely losing customers then. 

 

 

I don’t think they’ll lose business, they have the 62. As for the 75/30, Kew Gardens would be a packed terminal, and I’m all for the 75 to be outta KG.

[Sylveon]

1 minute ago, NBTA said:

Where’s the stats on that one?

I don’t think they’ll lose business, they have the 62. As for the 75/30, Kew Gardens would be a packed terminal, and I’m all for the 75 to be outta KG.

I live by the Q16. I see more people using Francis Lewis trips then Utopia. There's also more Francis Lewis trips then Utopia so that should say something.

 

Q16 weekday trips:

 

Towards Fort Totten via Francis Lewis -> 37

 

Towards Fort Totten via Utopia -> 34

 

Towards Flushing via Francis Lewis -> 43

 

Towards Flushing via Utopia -> 41

[Ex696]

34 minutes ago, Sylveon said:

Instead, have the Q61 serve utopia Pkwy from Willets Point to Utopia and 26th.

So the Q61 would end where the Q31 currently ends today?

 

[Sylveon]

1 hour ago, Ex696 said:

So the Q61 would end where the Q31 currently ends today?

 

not exactly, but close

[Gotham Bus Co.]

11 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

Honestly, alot of this new plan is just shuffling deck chairs. What happened to expanding SBS? Right off the bat Q46, Q66, Q60, Q69, Q43, Q4, Q5, Q6, Q111 should all be SBS. 

 

Realistically, by the time the plan in implemented, OMNY might be fully rolled out (with all-door boarding) and all SBS routes will be "demoted" to Limited.

[NBTA]

2 hours ago, Sylveon said:

I live by the Q16. I see more people using Francis Lewis trips then Utopia. There's also more Francis Lewis trips then Utopia so that should say something.

 

Q16 weekday trips:

 

Towards Fort Totten via Francis Lewis -> 37

 

Towards Fort Totten via Utopia -> 34

 

Towards Flushing via Francis Lewis -> 43

 

Towards Flushing via Utopia -> 41

The amount of buses on a branch shouldn’t determine the ridership, but hey, I could be wrong.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

47 minutes ago, NBTA said:

The amount of buses on a branch shouldn’t determine the ridership, but hey, I could be wrong.

It should be the reverse: The ridership should determine levels of service.

[7-express]

4 hours ago, Sylveon said:

Really did not like how they made the Q16 trips all Utopia when everyone uses Francis Lewis trips. 

 

Instead, have the Q61 serve utopia Pkwy from Willets Point to Utopia and 26th.

 

This way, service on Francis Lewis doesn't get cut (weekend service on Francis Lewis is especially bad, so cutting even more service makes it worse)

One of my previous suggestions was to have the Q61 just follow the QM20 to Bay Terrace on Willets Point Blvd/Utopia Pkwy/26 Ave as the local compliment.  It'll make it more useful than the tail end that goes to Fort Totten.

[Q43LTD]

What's funny is the Q16 was supposed to end at the current 31 terminal and the Francis Lewis and Utopia branches got their own number in the previous draft.

[JAzumah]

19 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Beyond that, the buses and destination signs are large enough to advertise themselves.

Not quite. The cheapest way to increase ridership is to consistently advertise your services. You can't assume that people know what you are offering unless you reach out to them.

[limitednyc]

How do u do that.  Also people know but can't afford.

[BrooklynBus]

57 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

Not quite. The cheapest way to increase ridership is to consistently advertise your services. You can't assume that people know what you are offering unless you reach out to them.

I had an argument with an MTA official about 50 years ago. He said the MTA was guilty of not advertising the services enough that they provide. I responded that you first have to improve the product before you advertise, because if the service is bad, people won’t return. 

[Bill from Maspeth]

On 12/18/2023 at 10:14 AM, Nova Fly Guy said:

GA does not do Street reliefs on any routes don’t think that would change. Short turn at Flushing & Grand then DH to GA.

Grand Ave. street reliefs are accomplished on the Q59

[xD4nn]

8 hours ago, Sylveon said:

then you have the Q30 and Q75.... that's gonna piss off a lot of people..... cuz why terminate at Briarwood... Kew Gardens would've been better

Kew Gardens doesn't make any sense either. They aren't going to change jack after this final plan since they claim that west of QCC has "greater ridership". My guess for them rerouting it to Briarwood is so that it can still be based out of JA. It would be horrible to base it out of QV. QV is way too far and they can't do street reliefs since it goes nowhere near QV. Jamaica is the better option and schedules have decreased on the Q75 in favor of greater service on the Q30 so I don't see why it can't be based out of JA.

Edited December 26, 2023 by xD4nn

[MysteriousBtrain]

49 minutes ago, xD4nn said:

Kew Gardens doesn't make any sense either. They aren't going to change jack after this final plan since they claim that west of QCC has "greater ridership". My guess for them rerouting it to Briarwood is so that it can still be based out of JA. It would be horrible to base it out of QV. QV is way too far and they can't do street reliefs since it goes nowhere near QV. Jamaica is the better option and schedules have decreased on the Q75 in favor of greater service on the Q30 so I don't see why it can't be based out of JA.

There may still be changes here and there similar to the Bx28/34. Remember this is a proposed final plan as there may still be a bit of pushback, especially at Floral Park.

[JAzumah]

2 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I had an argument with an MTA official about 50 years ago. He said the MTA was guilty of not advertising the services enough that they provide. I responded that you first have to improve the product before you advertise, because if the service is bad, people won’t return. 

The MTA official from 50 years ago is correct. If you are running a transportation system, people have to know what services you provide in order for them to determine its usefulness.

The B103 used to carry around 150 passengers a day in each direction. It was hard to find on bus signs. It was not on the regular bus map (only the NYCDOT Express Bus Map). You had to know it existed to find the schedule (which was part of the Command Bus Company brochure). When it started appearing on schedules and bus maps, the ridership EXPLODED. 4 buses/day in each direction had to be expanded even under the stingy NYCDOT because the buses got too full to carry everyone. 4 buses/day became an all day service on a largely hourly schedule. Bad service became better service because more people found out about it and drove demand for that service. The "bad service" was still useable enough to grow!

First, you maximize the use of bad service. That drives demand to improve it.

[JoshTheScrub]

11 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

The Q6, if it went into the airport terminals, then yeah, I'd say it could use an SBS conversion. But I'm not sure if it's necessary. The Q6 needs artics, that's for sure, but I'm not sure about SBS.

As a fellow rider of the Q6 bus almost every day, I can agree that route needs arctics at least to deal with crowd control, its ridiculous every time that bus is almost always crowded

[BrooklynBus]

Two more letters in the Queens Chronicle:

https://www.qchron.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/more-bus-plan-issues/article_f3d1fedc-a4f6-11ee-ac09-afdc3d7c62bb.html 

https://www.qchron.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/devil-in-bus-details/article_c1be3ed8-a4f6-11ee-9a6a-5fb52cf14208.html 

 

[MTA Dude]

On 12/22/2023 at 3:02 PM, B35 via Church said:

Q58/Q98: The thing about this coupling to me is that I don't have a problem with the routes individually - but I don't think there's necessarily a need for both these variants of the current Q58 to run between Ridgewood & Flushing either.... I would try my hand at combining the two core concepts into one route; as in, running b/w Ridgewood & Grand/QB making Q58 stops, to then doing the Q98 routing b/w Grand/QB & Flushing (putting it another way, maintaining the Q98 route, but have it make more stops south of QB).... If a concept like that ends up attracting more of the masses (than the Q58, which I would expect, because I find that significantly more of the masses that board in Flushing disembark at QB, moreso than any accumulation/total of pax that disembark along 108th or along Corona av, short of QB), then I'd have the Q59 run over the Q58 routing along Corona av, to circle back down towards the Rego Center, like this....

Are there not a lot of people using the Q58 between Elmhurst and Flushing? Would've expected a decent amount since they're both Chinatowns, and if so, missing service to the Broadway/Corona Av stop could be a pretty big deal. But if not, I really like the idea of having the Q59 replace service along Corona Ave (maybe not loop back to Rego Center though, I'd have it end with the Q38). At least for me, the benefit of the Q98 is more about finally getting a direct connection between Flushing and QCM, and sending the Q59 onto Corona Ave would let the Q58 do that.

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, MTA Dude said:

Are there not a lot of people using the Q58 between Elmhurst and Flushing? Would've expected a decent amount since they're both Chinatowns, and if so, missing service to the Broadway/Corona Av stop could be a pretty big deal. But if not, I really like the idea of having the Q59 replace service along Corona Ave (maybe not loop back to Rego Center though, I'd have it end with the Q38). At least for me, the benefit of the Q98 is more about finally getting a direct connection between Flushing and QCM, and sending the Q59 onto Corona Ave would let the Q58 do that.

I wasn't trying to implicate that particular stretch carries lightly, but at the same time, I do see more people from Flushing have more of a use for a Q98 of sorts, compared to the current Q58 LTD.... So if they're going to do away with the Q58LTD, I would look to increase local service along Grand av & that section of the route b/w QB & 108th st. in Corona.... Basically what I'm getting at is that there's more usage along the Grand st. corridor than there is on the Q58 b/w QB & 108th....

As far as having the Q59 ending at Rego Center vs. ending it where the current Q38 does (which I thought about doing at first), the latter would be too huge of a deterrent - even more so than not retaining the Q58 local to/from Flushing for those folks b/w QB & 108th.....

[Nova Fly Guy]

On 12/26/2023 at 1:02 PM, Bill from Maspeth said:

Grand Ave. street reliefs are accomplished on the Q59

Those are interlined trips not reliefs at WBP.

[Fire Mountain]

On 12/26/2023 at 2:59 PM, JAzumah said:

The MTA official from 50 years ago is correct. If you are running a transportation system, people have to know what services you provide in order for them to determine its usefulness.

The B103 used to carry around 150 passengers a day in each direction. It was hard to find on bus signs. It was not on the regular bus map (only the NYCDOT Express Bus Map). You had to know it existed to find the schedule (which was part of the Command Bus Company brochure). When it started appearing on schedules and bus maps, the ridership EXPLODED. 4 buses/day in each direction had to be expanded even under the stingy NYCDOT because the buses got too full to carry everyone. 4 buses/day became an all day service on a largely hourly schedule. Bad service became better service because more people found out about it and drove demand for that service. The "bad service" was still useable enough to grow!

First, you maximize the use of bad service. That drives demand to improve it.

Damn. I never knew bout that. That’s wild