R46 Retirement Thread

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, zacster said:

With the R211s coming back in service have they pulled the A-A cars out again?  Or are they all still mixed in?   If they have 4230-4234 waiting in Lincoln that's 195 cars ready  4040 thru 4234 and I'm sure 4235-9 are also being readied, so 200 cars or 20 trains.  Something has to go to make room, even if to some corner of 38th St yard.

Likely transferred to Coney Island Yard to remain in service but once there’s about 15 trains on property 

[zacster]

They may need some spares but they don't likely need them all. 

[TyBusLover1]

Are all of the a-a pair r46s stored?

[zacster]

5 minutes ago, TyBusLover1 said:

Are all of the a-a pair r46s stored?

With all of the R211s available right now, 11 sets of R211a and 2 sets of R211T, some still undergoing testing, they probably don't need the AA sets.  I'd be surprised if they don't start moving the R46s around to storage until they are finally retired.  There isn't infinite space at Pitkin.  It will still be a long time until cars start shifting around other than R211s replacing R46s on the A and C.

[slantfan4281]

2 hours ago, zacster said:

With all of the R211s available right now, 11 sets of R211a and 2 sets of R211T, some still undergoing testing, they probably don't need the AA sets.  I'd be surprised if they don't start moving the R46s around to storage until they are finally retired.  There isn't infinite space at Pitkin.  It will still be a long time until cars start shifting around other than R211s replacing R46s on the A and C.

To add to that they've also taken a lot of R32s off property in the past few months (I think about 110 are left, and 80-90 of them are awaiting scrap), so they'll have room at 207, CI, and 38th where I think a good amount are sitting (though I'm not sure if they still strip cars of parts at the first two anymore)

[TyBusLover1]

14 hours ago, slantfan4281 said:

To add to that they've also taken a lot of R32s off property in the past few months (I think about 110 are left, and 80-90 of them are awaiting scrap), so they'll have room at 207, CI, and 38th where I think a good amount are sitting (though I'm not sure if they still strip cars of parts at the first two anymore)

Good info. Thanks!

[slantfan4281]

10 hours ago, TyBusLover1 said:

Good info. Thanks!

No problem, there's a roster at nycsubway.org

[TyBusLover1]

Have any more r44 sirs retired?

[NBTA]

On 1/26/2024 at 9:33 PM, zacster said:

With all of the R211s available right now, 11 sets of R211a and 2 sets of R211T, some still undergoing testing, they probably don't need the AA sets.  I'd be surprised if they don't start moving the R46s around to storage until they are finally retired.  There isn't infinite space at Pitkin.  It will still be a long time until cars start shifting around other than R211s replacing R46s on the A and C.

They also use the back of Concourse to store cars, I saw a full set or two a couple weeks ago, but it could be gone.

[BenTheMiner]

On 1/19/2024 at 9:35 PM, zacster said:

With the R211s coming back in service have they pulled the A-A cars out again?  Or are they all still mixed in?   If they have 4230-4234 waiting in Lincoln that's 195 cars ready  4040 thru 4234 and I'm sure 4235-9 are also being readied, so 200 cars or 20 trains.  Something has to go to make room, even if to some corner of 38th St yard.

 

On 1/26/2024 at 9:22 PM, TyBusLover1 said:

Are all of the a-a pair r46s stored?

R46 married pair list, last time they ran:

6208+10 1/28
6216+8 11/19 (at CIY 12/31)
6220+2 1/30
6224+6 1/30
> 6228+30 8/13 or 8/26
6232+4 1/26
6236+8 1/28
> 6240+2 11/10
6244+6 1/30
6248+50 1/30
6252+4 1/26
> 6256+8 1/13

Sets marked with an arrow are ones that are likely in storage. 6228+6230 may or may not be retired. Not sure.

[BenTheMiner]

On 1/28/2024 at 12:55 AM, slantfan4281 said:

No problem, there's a roster at nycsubway.org

I've been updating this, by the way! :p

On 1/28/2024 at 10:28 PM, TyBusLover1 said:

Have any more r44 sirs retired?

399, 401, 402, 424, possibly 452, and 466 are retired SIR R44s.

[slantfan4281]

1 hour ago, BenTheMiner said:

I've been updating this, by the way! :p

399, 401, 402, 424, possibly 452, and 466 are retired SIR R44s.

Thanks for keeping it updated - I see posts of R32s at SBK every now and then but I haven't found a detailed list anywhere else than there. It'll be sad to see the R46s go in the next few years but it'll be interesting to see if they preserve any and what they do with the OOS cars

[R32 3838]

I don't think they'll need to store or retire anything until they are sure of the R211s reliability also Coney island need cars so it would make sense to start pushing R46s to CI yard to increase their spare factor and in the future to get rid of the bad cars over there. 

[darkstar8983]

On 1/30/2024 at 11:15 PM, R32 3838 said:

I don't think they'll need to store or retire anything until they are sure of the R211s reliability also Coney island need cars so it would make sense to start pushing R46s to CI yard to increase their spare factor and in the future to get rid of the bad cars over there. 

Yeah, I'd give it another year until we start seeing any R46s officially retiring. Likely the next 100 R211A cars that will be arriving will ensure the spare factor at Pitkin/207 St Yards will be sufficient to start transferring "good" R46s to Coney Island. Then afterwards, the R46s can start retiring from Coney Island (either the CI ones retiring and being replaced by the Pitkin R46s, or outright replacing the Pitkin R46s).

 

The current R211s right now are likely replacing the R32s that have been in storage. Remember that in May / June, the  will be going back to full service, so the extra R179s/R160s that have been running on the  will be replaced again with the R46s. I also think R46 6228-6230 ran today on one of the 168 St-bound  train trip during the AM rush. 

[slantfan4281]

1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

Yeah, I'd give it another year until we start seeing any R46s officially retiring. Likely the next 100 R211A cars that will be arriving will ensure the spare factor at Pitkin/207 St Yards will be sufficient to start transferring "good" R46s to Coney Island. Then afterwards, the R46s can start retiring from Coney Island (either the CI ones retiring and being replaced by the Pitkin R46s, or outright replacing the Pitkin R46s).

 

The current R211s right now are likely replacing the R32s that have been in storage. Remember that in May / June, the  will be going back to full service, so the extra R179s/R160s that have been running on the  will be replaced again with the R46s. I also think R46 6228-6230 ran today on one of the 168 St-bound  train trip during the AM rush. 

The SIR R44s should start getting pulled from service once the R211s start to arrive in enough numbers though, right? IIRC they plan on doing the 30 day test next month too

[zacster]

There are enough R211s now to replace the R32s in storage already, and those R32s were the spare factor even though they never ran again.  Maybe they'll get a few more 211s in but I think they are going to start transferring the R46 sooner rather than later.  By May/June there could be a lot more R211s and I wouldn't be surprised either if the C started getting R211As in addition to the 2 R211Ts already assigned and all of the 4 car R179s go to ENY along with the borrowed R160s.

[R32 3838]

20 minutes ago, zacster said:

There are enough R211s now to replace the R32s in storage already, and those R32s were the spare factor even though they never ran again.  Maybe they'll get a few more 211s in but I think they are going to start transferring the R46 sooner rather than later.  By May/June there could be a lot more R211s and I wouldn't be surprised either if the C started getting R211As in addition to the 2 R211Ts already assigned and all of the 4 car R179s go to ENY along with the borrowed R160s.

CI needs an increase of spare factor since they lost the R160s. That's the only issue, They barely have any and their R46s take the most beatings. They only need like 6-8 more sets to  have a balanced fleet and you forget that concourse spare factor dropped when they sent up to 4+ sets to coney over the past 7 years.

[TyBusLover1]

22 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

CI needs an increase of spare factor since they lost the R160s. That's the only issue, They barely have any and their R46s take the most beatings. They only need like 6-8 more sets to  have a balanced fleet and you forget that concourse spare factor dropped when they sent up to 4+ sets to coney over the past 7 years.

So will they get more spares from concourse yard?

[zacster]

23 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

CI needs an increase of spare factor since they lost the R160s. That's the only issue, They barely have any and their R46s take the most beatings. They only need like 6-8 more sets to  have a balanced fleet and you forget that concourse spare factor dropped when they sent up to 4+ sets to coney over the past 7 years.

What I'm thinking is that the 11 R32 trains were the spares for both CI and Pitkin,  and with the R211s they have now they've been replaced, and that CI should have gotten some already.  As far as I know though they haven't transferred anything yet.  If a bunch of trains started to crap out from CI I'm sure the call would go out to bring some over since they don't need them at Pitkin.

I don't think they would get any spares from Concourse.  If anything, they'd return some R68s to Concourse when they get more R46s.  I guess that would mean even fewer R68s on the N/Q/W. 

[R32 3838]

57 minutes ago, TyBusLover1 said:

So will they get more spares from concourse yard?

No Concourse would get their spares back that they lost

31 minutes ago, zacster said:

What I'm thinking is that the 11 R32 trains were the spares for both CI and Pitkin,  and with the R211s they have now they've been replaced, and that CI should have gotten some already.  As far as I know though they haven't transferred anything yet.  If a bunch of trains started to crap out from CI I'm sure the call would go out to bring some over since they don't need them at Pitkin.

I don't think they would get any spares from Concourse.  If anything, they'd return some R68s to Concourse when they get more R46s.  I guess that would mean even fewer R68s on the N/Q/W. 

The Original plan was to move some R46s from pitkin to CI as the remaining R179s went into service to increase their spares while the R32's stayed on the and . 5-7 sets of R32s were planned to run in and service until the R211s show up and replace those remaining R32s.  The would have been 35% to 50% 60 footers and 50% 75 footers with a decent spare factor. The would have ran the rest of the R32s with the R179s. This is why they were planned to keep 110 R32s until they decided to retire them in late 2019.

 

Concourse would gain their spares back not lose anymore cars. They lost about 32-40 R68's between 2016-2019. That's why it would be smart to give CIY some more R46 cars to fil in the gaps this way Pitkin, CIY and Concourse yard would have a decent spare factor.

 

 

 

[TyBusLover1]

6 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

No Concourse would get their spares back that they lost

The Original plan was to move some R46s from pitkin to CI as the remaining R179s went into service to increase their spares while the R32's stayed on the and . 5-7 sets of R32s were planned to run in and service until the R211s show up and replace those remaining R32s.  The would have been 35% to 50% 60 footers and 50% 75 footers with a decent spare factor. The would have ran the rest of the R32s with the R179s. This is why they were planned to keep 110 R32s until they decided to retire them in late 2019.

 

Concourse would gain their spares back not lose anymore cars. They lost about 32-40 R68's between 2016-2019. That's why it would be smart to give CIY some more R46 cars to fil in the gaps this way Pitkin, CIY and Concourse yard would have a decent spare factor.

 

 

 

Okay.

[darkstar8983]

Yes. So right now no R46s are going to retirement. I think any R46 transfers have to wait until the  is back to full service since that will reduce the available trains for the . But by that time hopefully enough R211s will be cleared for service. And yes likely the R211 moves will allow some R68s to be moved (likely 2768-2779) from the  to the  ( the  would therefore be all R46s again) and any leftover R68s not used in CIY on the  assigned to the . 
 

when CIY had the R160s, the spare factor for each route there was:

 - 32 R68s (200 R68As in service)

 - 30 R160s, 16 R68s (290 R160s and 32 R68s in service)

 - 40 R160s (210 R160s in service)

 - 12 R68s (rotated with the , 52 R68s in service)

 

and since the swap was a 1-for-1, coupled with the R46s age, we’d probably need a spare factor of:

 - add 16 R68 cars to spare factor (6 trains total)

 - add 20 R68 cars to spare factor (7 trains total)

- these R68s would be subtracted from the  pool of cars, so to make up the deficit:

 

 - 176 R46 cars + 48 R46s as spares = 224 cars

 - 64 R68 cars + 200 R46 cars for service, 16 R68 cars + 48 R48 cars as spares = 320 cars (240 of which are R46s)

224 + 240 = 464 R46s would be needed at Coney Island Yard in this case, of which CI only has 388 cars in service (8 cars have been permanently removed from service), so we’d need 76 R46 cars to be transferred to buff up the spare factor enough, (Probabaly just round it up to 80-88 cars, then start retirement). 

[slantfan4281]

3 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

Yes. So right now no R46s are going to retirement. I think any R46 transfers have to wait until the  is back to full service since that will reduce the available trains for the . But by that time hopefully enough R211s will be cleared for service. And yes likely the R211 moves will allow some R68s to be moved (likely 2768-2779) from the  to the  ( the  would therefore be all R46s again) and any leftover R68s not used in CIY on the  assigned to the . 
 

when CIY had the R160s, the spare factor for each route there was:

 - 32 R68s (200 R68As in service)

 - 30 R160s, 16 R68s (290 R160s and 32 R68s in service)

 - 40 R160s (210 R160s in service)

 - 12 R68s (rotated with the , 52 R68s in service)

 

and since the swap was a 1-for-1, coupled with the R46s age, we’d probably need a spare factor of:

 - add 16 R68 cars to spare factor (6 trains total)

 - add 20 R68 cars to spare factor (7 trains total)

- these R68s would be subtracted from the  pool of cars, so to make up the deficit:

 

 - 176 R46 cars + 48 R46s as spares = 224 cars

 - 64 R68 cars + 200 R46 cars for service, 16 R68 cars + 48 R48 cars as spares = 320 cars (240 of which are R46s)

224 + 240 = 464 R46s would be needed at Coney Island Yard in this case, of which CI only has 388 cars in service (8 cars have been permanently removed from service), so we’d need 76 R46 cars to be transferred to buff up the spare factor enough, (Probabaly just round it up to 80-88 cars, then start retirement). 

So if we see 10 cars a month delivered, then we'll see the R46s start retiring towards December?

[darkstar8983]

Just now, slantfan4281 said:

So if we see 10 cars a month delivered, then we'll see the R46s start retiring towards December?

And if that’s the case, it will take about 15 years to deliver these cars and the R46s will be busted and catching on fire by then. Then we can forget about CBTC installment on 6 Av until 2050.

[Lawrence St]

15 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

Yes. So right now no R46s are going to retirement. I think any R46 transfers have to wait until the  is back to full service since that will reduce the available trains for the . But by that time hopefully enough R211s will be cleared for service. And yes likely the R211 moves will allow some R68s to be moved (likely 2768-2779) from the  to the  ( the  would therefore be all R46s again) and any leftover R68s not used in CIY on the  assigned to the . 
 

when CIY had the R160s, the spare factor for each route there was:

 - 32 R68s (200 R68As in service)

 - 30 R160s, 16 R68s (290 R160s and 32 R68s in service)

 - 40 R160s (210 R160s in service)

 - 12 R68s (rotated with the , 52 R68s in service)

 

and since the swap was a 1-for-1, coupled with the R46s age, we’d probably need a spare factor of:

 - add 16 R68 cars to spare factor (6 trains total)

 - add 20 R68 cars to spare factor (7 trains total)

- these R68s would be subtracted from the  pool of cars, so to make up the deficit:

 

 - 176 R46 cars + 48 R46s as spares = 224 cars

 - 64 R68 cars + 200 R46 cars for service, 16 R68 cars + 48 R48 cars as spares = 320 cars (240 of which are R46s)

224 + 240 = 464 R46s would be needed at Coney Island Yard in this case, of which CI only has 388 cars in service (8 cars have been permanently removed from service), so we’d need 76 R46 cars to be transferred to buff up the spare factor enough, (Probabaly just round it up to 80-88 cars, then start retirement). 

Uh, when was the  shared with the ? If that was the case, those test R68 units with the signs should’ve popped up on the .