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R46 Retirement Thread


zacster

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27 minutes ago, TyBusLover1 said:

I feel like 5970-3, 5934-7 and a few other sets on this list are retired.

No, they might be just stored, once ~150 R211s hit service, then they start retiring them.

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11 hours ago, BenTheMiner said:

It's possible and estimated if they are to extend the C to be full-length, which currently isn't possible as it is based out of 207 St Yard and its inspection shed does not fit 600-foot long trains (the R46 and R211T are based out of Pitkin Yard).

Thanks.

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33 minutes ago, zacster said:

When the 11th R211 train goes into service, that'll mean they are whole again with spares, and can start retiring, and since these cars are not being used anyway they may be the first to go.

I'd imagine that since we're already at 110 cars on property, along with the 211S about to start testing or service on SI, we could maybe see official retirements begin in March. If we get a good delivery schedule the 44s could retired pretty quickly (by the end of the year) but the 46s will probably take at least a year and a half to cycle out. 

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In order for them to retire the R46s from the NQW they are going to have to replace the R68s with NTTs on the B/D.  I can't predict which will end up on B/D.  The other possibility is that they put R211s on the NQW to directly replace the R46s, but just like with the R160s, they'll end up being swapped out again so that 6th Ave can go CBTC.

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13 hours ago, TyBusLover1 said:

I feel like 5970-3, 5934-7 and a few other sets on this list are retired.

If they were retired, they would have likely been moved out for scrap already. On the contrary, they are being kept in storage like the R32 and can be reactivated at any time.

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10 hours ago, zacster said:

When the 11th R211 train goes into service, that'll mean they are whole again with spares, and can start retiring, and since these cars are not being used anyway they may be the first to go.

I don't think that will have any significance anyway. With the logic I provided earlier, I suspect that the MTA will wait until all of the primary order cars arrive to officially start retiring any R46 sets.

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2 minutes ago, BenTheMiner said:

I don't think that will have any significance anyway. With the logic I provided earlier, I suspect that the MTA will wait until all of the primary order cars arrive to officially start retiring any R46 sets.

It costs money though to store the cars if they don't need them.  It'll be a lot of extra cars hanging around.

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14 minutes ago, zacster said:

It costs money though to store the cars if they don't need them.  It'll be a lot of extra cars hanging around.

They'll probably start cannibalizing the worst sets first while they search for a scrap contract and the rest of the cars are still in service. It'll probably take a while to get them off property given how there are still around (90?) R32s left pending scrap, but the 46s might be easier to get rid of since they're newer. I doubt we'll see any saved for work service (maybe they'll save a single married pair for the museum), and I don't expect them to preserve any SIR R44s at all. 

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You guys are forgetting that Coney still need more spares, CIY doesn't have Techs anymore so the spare factor needs to increase. They are not going to outright start retiring R46's (unless they have a major malfunction) when they have to increase the spares first. When the R32's were starting to get taken OOS between late 2019 and early 2020, CIY still had tech trains (around this time the CI/Jamaica Swap was starting to happen). It wasn't until 2021 or 2022 when the the remaining R160s were moved to Jamaica along with the (G).

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

You guys are forgetting that Coney still need more spares, CIY doesn't have Techs anymore so the spare factor needs to increase. They are not going to outright start retiring R46's (unless they have a major malfunction) when they have to increase the spares first. When the R32's were starting to get taken OOS between late 2019 and early 2020, CIY still had tech trains (around this time the CI/Jamaica Swap was starting to happen). It wasn't until 2021 or 2022 when the the remaining R160s were moved to Jamaica along with the (G).

 

 

 

The 11 R32 trains were supposed to be the spare factor for both CI and Pitkin.  When those are replaced with R211s, there should already be enough to move to CI if needed.  And if they were needed at this point they probably would have been moved already, so my guess is they weren't really needed.  This gets to why they retired the 11 R32 trains in the first place.  Those 11 trains are "nice to have" but aren't truly needed.  Things that are "nice to have" still cost money.  Even when the R211s were pulled from service they had enough cars, just barely.

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3 hours ago, BenTheMiner said:

How does it cost money to just have trains sitting around? That's exactly what they did with the R32.

In the MTA EVERYTHING costs money.  They need storage space, security, maintenance, inspection, occasional operation.  It all adds up, and by MTA math. 

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47 minutes ago, zacster said:

In the MTA EVERYTHING costs money.  They need storage space, security, maintenance, inspection, occasional operation.  It all adds up, and by MTA math. 

Let's try to clear this up. In the real world everything costs money. The (MTA) is no exception. Think about what you're saying. The (MTA) is not just subways as you seem to be implying. There are bus depots, transit hubs, railroads, stations and a zillion other things that cost money. A train in the transit museum, lights in the river tubes 24/7 as well as parking facilities. You have equipment in maintenance facilities using diesels. I've been in subway yards where older non-revenue cars were being used by Car Equipment and/or RTO  for equipment storage and such. What I'm trying to show that everything in the (MTA) whether it moves or not costs money. Just my take. Carry on.

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On 2/16/2024 at 9:26 AM, zacster said:

The 11 R32 trains were supposed to be the spare factor for both CI and Pitkin.  When those are replaced with R211s, there should already be enough to move to CI if needed.  And if they were needed at this point they probably would have been moved already, so my guess is they weren't really needed.  This gets to why they retired the 11 R32 trains in the first place.  Those 11 trains are "nice to have" but aren't truly needed.  Things that are "nice to have" still cost money.  Even when the R211s were pulled from service they had enough cars, just barely.

honestly 11 sets of R32's wouldn't have been enough tbh and out of those 11 sets, they would have ran only 7 to 8 sets. The R46 fleet runs like garbage due to the low amount of spares right now. The B divsion fleet in general is taking a nose dive. The Jamaica R160s run like they are 35 years old and starting to ride like garbage because the air suspension is shot. 

 

This is why i don't think it's a good idea to start retiring the R46's in Mass, The only exception is if a set is completely shot. Then you have to factor in congestion pricing (which is delayed. The more it's delayed, The better)

 

The R211 with all options taken would eliminate this issue. They ordered enough R211s Both Base and Option I to completely wipe out the R46s and fill the void left by the R32's. Option II would just expand the fleet.

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On 2/16/2024 at 12:29 AM, Cait Sith said:

6216-6218 are in service. Spotted them today on the A. Didn't peep what the other two cars were coupled with it, but those were in service with it as well.

 

23 hours ago, BenTheMiner said:

Other married pair should be 6228 and 6230

I can confirm. Just got off the train myself.

Edited by RandomRider0101
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On 2/15/2024 at 6:26 PM, zacster said:

In order for them to retire the R46s from the NQW they are going to have to replace the R68s with NTTs on the B/D.  I can't predict which will end up on B/D.  The other possibility is that they put R211s on the NQW to directly replace the R46s, but just like with the R160s, they'll end up being swapped out again so that 6th Ave can go CBTC.

Once again, the Broadway Line is NOT getting R211s

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3 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

honestly 11 sets of R32's wouldn't have been enough tbh and out of those 11 sets, they would have ran only 7 to 8 sets. The R46 fleet runs like garbage due to the low amount of spares right now. The B divsion fleet in general is taking a nose dive. The Jamaica R160s run like they are 35 years old and starting to ride like garbage because the air suspension is shot. 

 

This is why i don't think it's a good idea to start retiring the R46's in Mass, The only exception is if a set is completely shot. Then you have to factor in congestion pricing (which is delayed. The more it's delayed, The better)

 

The R211 with all options taken would eliminate this issue. They ordered enough R211s Both Base and Option I to completely wipe out the R46s and fill the void left by the R32's. Option II would just expand the fleet.

They wanna wait until after the 2025 mayoral race 

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4 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

Once again, the Broadway Line is NOT getting R211s

It would not make sense to put them on a line that won't be getting CBTC.  But since when does the MTA make any sense?  As I said, it is a POSSIBILITY, but unlikely for the reason I gave.

It isn't like they've never changed direction.

4 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

honestly 11 sets of R32's wouldn't have been enough tbh and out of those 11 sets, they would have ran only 7 to 8 sets. The R46 fleet runs like garbage due to the low amount of spares right now.

Those 11 sets of R32s were supposed to be the spares, or to allow R46s to be spares or serviced.  They made do without them so how can you say they wouldn't have been enough?  Zero R32s turned out to be enough.

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9 hours ago, Metro CSW said:

Nah, f**k CBTC. The realistic reason for Broadway Line to be considered for the R211 is to accommodate for the Second Avenue Subway. Lets try not overlook that fact.

And when they opened the 2nd Ave Subway they made sure the newest trains were running there.  If Cuomo were still Gov. my guess is they wouldn't have been allowed to swap them for the oldest cars.  He would've had a fit that his pride and joy wasn't being treated right.  

By the time the extension is opened to 125th St, no matter where it ends up there, the R68s will also be gone.

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