New York to pay engineering firm to analyze extension of 7 train to New Jersey

[R32 3838]

New York will spend up to $250,000 to jump-start the idea of extending the 7 train all the way to Secaucus, N.J. - but New Jersey hasn't pitched in a dime.

 

The city hired engineering firm Parsons Brinckerhoff this week to analyze how many riders the line could serve, how they would connect to the NJTransit train hub in Secaucus and - most importantly - how much it would cost.

 

Their study is due in three months, which Deputy Mayor Robert Steel said will help show government and transportation agencies in the region whether to go forward.

 

"All of [them] are focused on trying to understand, is this a good alternative?" Steel said. "It's a matter of months, not years."

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/02/04/2011-02-04_new_york_to_pay_new_jersey_firm_to_analyze_extension_of_7_train_to_secaucus.html#ixzz1CzsZAYVS

 

 

I Only Have a Few Words If they do this The will no longer be a Subway Line, It would Be a Railroad and This would Cost The Way More Money than anything, We Already have PATH and NJT, PATH is 1.75 so There is no need for the to go to NJ, Its a watse of Money Point Blank

[Tokkemon]

Obviously you know nothing about the system based on that comment. Have you ever even stepped foot in a PATH station?

 

Yes I do and Yes.

 

I'll let the rest of your stuff rest on Wikipedia.

[CenSin]

I Only Have a Few Words If they do this The will no longer be a Subway Line, It would Be a Railroad and This would Cost The Way More Money than anything, We Already have PATH and NJT, PATH is 1.75 so There is no need for the to go to NJ, Its a watse of Money Point Blank

metsfan: you are needed here.

 

How does building a tunnel to New Jersey turn rapid transit into a railroad? Is there a physical difference between building tunnels between two boroughs versus between two states?

[T to Dyre Avenue]

It doesn't. PATCO and WMATA Metrorail cross state (and district) lines. Neither is classified as a railroad or subject to FRA regulations.

[Nova RTS 9147]

Problem with that parallel is that the PATH has been around over 100 years.

 

PATH is a Metro system that uses railroad ROW. This is nothing unique.

 

As far as the FRA and the Port Authority is concerned, PATH is a railway, coming under the full auspices of the FRA. Not a Metro, but a Railway. There's a difference.

 

I Only Have a Few Words If they do this The will no longer be a Subway Line, It would Be a Railroad and This would Cost The Way More Money than anything, We Already have PATH and NJT, PATH is 1.75 so There is no need for the to go to NJ, Its a watse of Money Point Blank

 

It wont be a railway, but it will be a waste of money. In order for the to be a railway, it would have (or had) to physically connect to the national railway system. There's also complex waivers involved and a bunch of legal voodoo I can't explain.

 

metsfan: you are needed here.

 

How does building a tunnel to New Jersey turn rapid transit into a railroad? Is there a physical difference between building tunnels between two boroughs versus between two states?

 

LOL, It doesn't.

 

It doesn't. PATCO and WMATA Metrorail cross state (and district) lines. Neither is classified as a railroad.

 

BART also comes to mind. Though with WMATA, I can understand how someone could confuse that with a true railway.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Right. BART is also not a railroad and not subject to FRA regulations. And with its wide track gauge, you're not going to see any 100-car Union Pacific freight trains running in the Transbay Tube anytime soon.

[metsfan]

Yes I do and Yes.

 

I'll let the rest of your stuff rest on Wikipedia.

 

What does wikipedia have to do with anything???????

 

- A

[T to Dyre Avenue]

 

The funds starved MTA has much higher priorities to take care of, as also has been pointed out, then to even consider such a proposal as this.

If they want to expand the 7 line, perhaps it would be better to consider extending it down the far west side to the World Trade Center?

 

Or eastward towards Bell Boulevard in Bayside. That would make so much sense. But the won't even dream of doing that, would they?

[Vistausss]

If they extended it to Bayside, the LIRR would see less commuters 'cause then the people of Bayside could just take the subway which is cheap to ride. I don't say it won't happen, but what I just said could be a reason for the MTA to not extend it.

[Grand Concourse]

Yes I do and Yes.

 

I'll let the rest of your stuff rest on Wikipedia.

 

Lol!

 

And Path to me is concidered a 'subway' when compared to the NJT. It goes thru smaller tunnels and makes stops in underground stations like the subway. Other than the segments it shares with RR rows, it is more or less isolated. So big deal if it isn't a subway. I'm just making a comparison.

 

My main point [god this point has been lost by everyone here] is that PATH makes the most sense as it is owned by both states and is better than just NJ via NJT or NY via MTA subway. All that matters is there's extra tunnels dug thru Jersey to Manhattan. That's the whole point of it.

I'd rather have that than nothing. But the few that are ARC or nothing, well keep dreaming cuz that state ain't spending till it's another California.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

If they extended it to Bayside, the LIRR would see less commuters 'cause then the people of Bayside could just take the subway which is cheap to ride. I don't say it won't happen, but what I just said could be a reason for the MTA to not extend it.

 

As someone who takes the Q12 or Q13 bus every weekday to Flushing for the train, I can say this: The buses do ok on Northern Boulevard until they get to Sanford Avenue. That's when you start to see more dense, built-up real estate. The 12 turns onto Sanford at this point and the amount of riders waiting at the bus stops reflects that. You may see two to four people boarding at any given stop on Northern east of Sanford. But once you're on Sanford, you start seeing 10-15 people waiting to board at many of the stops. Frequently, the buses run out of room and they either have to leave people behind or skip stops altogether. The 13, which continues down Northern till it gets to downtown Flushing isn't any better once you go west of the Broadway LIRR station. Then there's issue of trains being delayed waiting to get in and out of Main Street. That's why I believe an eastbound extension is justified - at least as far east as the Broadway LIRR station. By the way, I don't think it would hurt LIRR service, because many of the Port Washington Branch trains are standing-room only. There is also much more service to the Bayside station and points east, than there is west of Bayside. So an eastbound extension will help more than hurt LIRR service.

[Vistausss]

Then why not extend the LIRR to the west? The LIRR already has a Bayside-station, so it would be more logical to just extend the LIRR to west-Bayside.

But you're right that it wouldn't hurt LIRR-service that much according to what you said (except for the bus-part which I didn't fully understand, but that's 'cause I'm not 100% used to the NYCTA yet, but I'm learning).

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Then why not extend the LIRR to the west? The LIRR already has a Bayside-station, so it would be more logical to just extend the LIRR to west-Bayside.

But you're right that it wouldn't hurt LIRR-service that much according to what you said (except for the bus-part which I didn't fully understand, but that's 'cause I'm not 100% used to the NYCTA yet, but I'm learning).

 

The LIRR Port Washington branch already runs west of Bayside. It goes to Penn Station.

[Vistausss]

True. I forgot that. Well, in that case, the extension for the 7 might not be so bad.

[manrush]

What about a PATH extension from Hoboken to Secaucus?

 

Would there be any obstacles, other than funding, if such an idea was proposed?

[Roadcruiser1]

That doesn't solve the crowding in the tunnel underneath the Hudson. It would make it more crowded then it is now.

[NX Express]

Just make a Path line from Hoboken under the river to 14 Street, then either up West Street or crosstown via 14th.

[Vistausss]

That doesn't solve the crowding in the tunnel underneath the Hudson. It would make it more crowded then it is now.

 

Who says it makes it more crowded? He never mentioned if it would be an extension as in 'added service' or an extension as in 'transfer at Hoboken to the PATH to Secaucus'. If he means that last one, than it wouldn't crowd it more.

[Roadcruiser1]

It would need to get to Manhattan somehow. There is only one tunnel under the Hudson River for PATH trains.

[Vistausss]

It would need to get to Manhattan somehow. There is only one tunnel under the Hudson River for PATH trains.

 

1 Take the path from Manhattan to Hoboken

2 Transfer at Hobken to the PATH to Secaucus

 

In what terms does it need to run to Manhattan then?

[Tokkemon]

The subtle problem with extending to Secaucus from Hoboken is that NJT trains already do that. Why double up on something that is not needed for local travel?

[NX Express]

The only issue here is a lack of ways for trains to cross the Hudson. Everything else will fall into place after that.

[Roadcruiser1]

Why are we talking about this when Amtrak already planned the Gateway Project. It seems like the Gateway Project already won. The extension would most likely not happen so it's time to drop it.

[Vistausss]

The subtle problem with extending to Secaucus from Hoboken is that NJT trains already do that. Why double up on something that is not needed for local travel?

 

You can say the same for the extension, so it doesn't matter anyway if it'd be a extension or an extension from Hoboken.

 

@Roadcruiser1: And you think people are gonna pay for Amtrak? I don't think a lot of people want to pay for Amtrak, since prices are higher than NYC Subway/NJT/PATH.

[Nexis4Jersey]

You can say the same for the extension, so it doesn't matter anyway if it'd be a extension or an extension from Hoboken.

 

@Roadcruiser1: And you think people are gonna pay for Amtrak? I don't think a lot of people want to pay for Amtrak, since prices are higher than NYC Subway/NJT/PATH.

 

Facepalm....LOL the New Tunnel is for NJT and Amtrak to share.....NJT is regional travel and Amtrak is for Intercity Rail travel....