New York to pay engineering firm to analyze extension of 7 train to New Jersey

[SubwayGuy]

I lived in NY, 11 years. I still WORK in NY, and I ride the same sardine packed and train everybody else ride. It's gunna be built, ur so quick to throw answers why not put a MTA workers suit on and check the progress urself.

 

That won't be done till the end of the decade and only adds 3 stations. Meanwhile what about Bayside? What about Phases 2-4 of SAS which are not fully funded? What about Eastern Queens? What about underserved portions of the Bronx and Brooklyn? What about Staten Island??? All of those are underserved areas of New York City, which if you're going to talk capital budget would benefit more. The MTA does not need to bear the cost of righting Christie's bad decisions.

 

Is all 468m stations falling apart? No. 29 new one plus the Culver Viaduct so that 2 more stations, and the Brighton Line reconstruction is about a good 5 or 6 station. Again ur forcing the baby to walk.

 

So then adding studying the possibility of adding many stations (without dedicated funding for maintenance) in a different state would then be like forcing the baby to compete in a triathlon.

[rr4567]

That won't be done till the end of the decade and only adds 3 stations. Meanwhile what about Bayside? What about Phases 2-4 of SAS which are not fully funded? What about Eastern Queens? What about underserved portions of the Bronx and Brooklyn? What about Staten Island??? All of those are underserved areas of New York City, which if you're going to talk capital budget would benefit more. The MTA does not need to bear the cost of righting Christie's bad decisions.

 

 

 

So then adding studying the possibility of adding many stations (without dedicated funding for maintenance) in a different state would then be like forcing the baby to compete in a triathlon.

 

You just stole the words I didn't even think of out of my mouth.

[Ftrainfan]

Does this really make sense?

 

Exactly! The 7 doesn't need to go to New Jersey people! We already have PATH trains!!! Get over yourselves!

[Infamous85]

It's gonna happen regardless. I'm not against this idea, I actually like it. Why not turn this whole thing into the PATH eventually. Extending it to Secaucus is a very good idea, travel between NY & NJ isn't too seamless and it should be, look at the MD-DC-VA (DMV) area, jurisdiction shouldn't determine anything. This is the case for the whole area, even NYC itself, is there an easy way to get from East Queens to Staten Island? I'm just saying, everything is still so Manhattan-centric.

 

It'd be nice if they "practiced" on Staten Island & East Queens as well while they're at it but whatever. I mean NJians for the most part have the same commute as anyone in the area, bus/car to train to whatever it is in Manhattan. Are they any more subway worthy than residents in other parts of NYC? That's my main issue, what about the commutes of so called New York City residents and the New York City subway, me taking upwards of 2 hours to get from South Queens to North Queens (and vice versa). Yeah the LIRR is here but it's only good for going further out on Long Island or to Manhattan, it doesn't solve my problem along with a lot of other resident's problems, the 2-4 different buses thing. I've been doing it for 6 years and it's a very sad set up, it quickly drains you too. I hope I don't have to do it for much longer, I want out of NY (for different reasons).

 

In the future there should be improved tunnel building techniques, imagine a laser just vaporizing a quarter of a mile of rock per day with precision. That'd be cool lol.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Well once Journal SQ and Harrison's Redevelopment projects are completed...the PATH will be bursting at the seems.... we are going to need a New PATH system or light Rail connecting to Secaucus , Hoboken , Manhattan and Jersey City.... I don't think the 7 train is the best idea to do it. Those worried about the PATH losing ridership , the PATH has a Jersey Centic Ridership....

[mark1447]

I would prefer the ARC project to return.. The NEC needs it more then spending money on extending service on the line.. Even if they added this it would still not help in commuting time..

 

The NEC is in bad shape with headways increased on the NER/Acela with packed NJT trains passing in and out from NJ to NY..

 

NJT should also lower there fares as well.. It blows spending 10+ just to go on the NEC from NYP to Trenton..

 

But this is NYs money. For the (7)s side.. I just hope Zone fares does not apply..

 

Doing this may also be pointless for those taking the NJT train from Secaucus to NY, since it maybe cheaper then going to NY via the then NJT.

 

 

Yes, it does. Some kind of additional rail crossing (whether it be , PATH, or ARC) will get people off trains through the Penn Sta tunnel. This will allow for less trains in the tunnel and ease the burden on it.

 

Right.. And what about commute time?

[Infamous85]

I would prefer the ARC project to return.. The NEC needs it more then spending money on extending service on the line.. Even if they added this it would still not help in commuting time..

 

The NEC is in bad shape with headways increased on the NER/Acela with packed NJT trains passing in and out from NJ to NY..

 

NJT should also lower there fares as well.. It blows spending 10+ just to go on the NEC from NYP to Trenton..

 

But this is NYs money. For the (7)s side.. I just hope Zone fares does not apply..

 

Doing this may also be pointless for those taking the NJT train from Secaucus to NY, since it maybe cheaper then going to NY via the then NJT.

 

 

 

 

Right.. And what about commute time?

 

Right, instead of NJ fully funding the ARC or NY fully funding the why not jointly fund the ARC which would be far better than a train extention.

[mark1447]

Right, instead of NJ fully funding the ARC or NY fully funding the why not jointly fund the ARC which would be far better than a train extention.

 

Each state puts half of half i guess.. And I wonder PA NY/NJ as well?

 

But NJ would still have to build 4 more tracks under the existing ones. Which would take time, but less time then the . Plus i heard Amtrak is building 2 of its own tracks if im correct

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I agree that Bloomberg needs to get his priorities and the should be building subways in Eastern Queens and Staten Island before they build anything in Jersey. But by the same token, NJT should be expanding HBLR in Hudson and Bergen Counties before building anything in Staten Island.

 

ARC is dead, as we know. So why doesn't the Port Authority come up with a "Plan B" to solve the traffic woes across the Hudson River that doesn't involve adding more highway lanes? Why don't they look into building a new PATH train between Secaucus and Midtown Manhattan? Build a PATH line north of the existing Midtown lines to better serve the commuters who work between 42nd and 59th Streets.

[mark1447]

ARC maybe dead but it could come back as im hearing.

 

cant just build any subway in NJ.. It has to work with NJ for this to happen including PA NY/NJ.. Same thing with the HBLR heading to SI(Idk if PA NY/NJ applies).

 

No Matter what, I hope ARC comes back..

 

Most NYC Subway buffs must understand this.. Its not about just extend the because its gonna be fun and stuff.. Its about Commuting between NY / NJ as well as anything in the NY Metro Area.

 

Plus im wondering if Crime could hit in between NY and NJ seeing anyone take the subway from any outer boro to NJ and problems could blow within towns.. Back and forth.

[B35 via Church]

Isn't the 7 already at capacity....

 

 

and to this guy:

 

U guys don't see it from a regular NJ Transit commuter. The fares went up 25%, the tunnel is CONSTANTLY congested and with amount of failing equipment this winter, NJ Transit is on there knees. They are begging the gov't for the ARC back but Christie is being a total douchebag and honestly, having the 7 go to Secaucus won't stop the tunnel problems but it can help take a few trains out of the tunnel. It can help get traffic away the chocked Penn. You guys live in NY so y'all don't care, but what u say is waste of money now, I say is future gold mine for NJT, MTA, and Amtrak. You can quote me too.

 

I lived in NY, 11 years. I still WORK in NY, and I ride the same sardine packed and train everybody else ride. It's gunna be built, ur so quick to throw answers why not put a MTA workers suit on and check the progress urself. Stop trying to fight with me. I hate it when people goes "oh well u live in jersey u dont know...nanana...." STFU! If I wasn't a child at the time I wouldn't be living in this wooded shit hole buddy.

Quoted.

 

 

Anyway, Dude, simply put, this isn't a "NY vs NJ" thing & people not caring.....

 

It's about the MTA & their piss-poor Prioritizing practices that's riling people up about this extension...

The idea is to take care of home FIRST, before attempting to fix anyone else's problems... that's why the US is in the f***ed up state it's in now....

[Roadcruiser1]

Actually the areas the would run through if extend to NJ isn't completely unsafe or mostly unsafe. Secaucus actually was rated as the 11th best place to live in NJ. The town makes it's living by having national parks, and light industry. It's average income is $60,000 dollars per family. It is a town of mostly blue collar workers. Most of the crime in Secaucus is just robberies, and property destruction. Though it is lower then Manhattan's. Secaucus has a population of 15,000 people as of 2007 estimated. Most of the population here no racism intended is white.

 

The other two towns would be Hoboken, and Union City. Union City is a blue collar town too. An average family makes around $30,000 dollars. Most of the town makes it's money in the industry. The crime around here is property crime. This town is blue collar too. The crime here is lower then Manhattan. Union City has 67,000 people in 2007 as a population estimate. Most the population here no racism intended is Latin American.

 

Hoboken is a white collar town. A family would make $110,000 dollars a year. The town makes most of it's money in local businesses, and tourism. The town has a population of 50,000 people as a 2007 estimate. Most of the crime here is property crime. Also lower then Manhattan's. Most of the people here no racism intended is white.

 

In the end you can see that NJ would gain crime if they gain this connection to NYC via the that would typically call for NIMBY's, but again they would actually gain people, and an architectural boom with the connection to Grand Central which they formally never had.

 

Here is a picture of the route again to prove it.

[SoSpectacular]

U guys don't see it from a regular NJ Transit commuter. The fares went up 25%, the tunnel is CONSTANTLY congested and with amount of failing equipment this winter, NJ Transit is on there knees. They are begging the gov't for the ARC back but Christie is being a total douchebag and honestly, having the 7 go to Secaucus won't stop the tunnel problems but it can help take a few trains out of the tunnel. It can help get traffic away the chocked Penn. You guys live in NY so y'all don't care, but what u say is waste of money now, I say is future gold mine for NJT, MTA, and Amtrak. You can quote me too.

 

Problem is, New York doesn't have this kind of money either... And Jersey isn't even pitching in a dime. Why the hell should we bother?

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Tokkemon]

Bring ARC Tunnel back without that shaft under Macy's, sheesh!!!!

 

For the millionth time, the tunnel was intended to terminate at 8th Ave and 33rd St with a new Penn Station (essentially) in the current location of the Foley Post Office across from MSG. It would have been called Moynihan Station and served as the NJT Concourse while Amtrak could have the space in the current Penn Station.

[Nexis4Jersey]

For the millionth time, the tunnel was intended to terminate at 8th Ave and 33rd St with a new Penn Station (essentially) in the current location of the Foley Post Office across from MSG. It would have been called Moynihan Station and served as the NJT Concourse while Amtrak could have the space in the current Penn Station.

 

No that wasn't the current plan....that plan is for Amtrak and LIRR.....our plan made no sense.

[N-Trizzy2609]

Problem is, New York doesn't have this kind of money either... And Jersey isn't even pitching in a dime. Why the hell should we bother?

 

Cuz trying to get a dime outta Christie is like asking a bum to buy u lunch. And if NJ put in some money, Idc, we need common ground here. To many people are 50-50 on this. Either way, something is getting built under the hudson, whether if it's the 7 extension, a revived ARC or even the rumored Amtrak plan to build there own tunnel.

[error46146]

If NYC wants it so bad then why not buy PATH and the HBLR from the Port Authority?. I am sure the can come up with something to buy it. Then we can charge the people using PATH 5 dollars like on the MNRR, and LIRR, and finally fill up the gap, and we can charge people on the HBLR 2 dollars, and 50 cents. It's a win win for everyone.

MTA should just take over Path. Make Path part of the subway if they want to and call that your "7 Line extension"

 

MTA needs to stop playing nice with republican politicians. they dont want to pay up, they don't get anything period end of story. same thing with LI Bus

[Urbanfortitude]

Cuz trying to get a dime outta Christie is like asking a bum to buy u lunch. And if NJ put in some money, Idc, we need common ground here. To many people are 50-50 on this. Either way, something is getting built under the hudson, whether if it's the 7 extension, a revived ARC or even the rumored Amtrak plan to build there own tunnel.

 

50/50? I'm just flat out against it. It's not even about common ground. It's not about who pays for the projects anymore. It's about priorities. I'm tired of hearing "the city is broke", "the MTA is broke", "Everybody is broke". If everybody is so f---ing broke, how is it there's money for our mayor to spend on his personal chefs, there's money Exec bonuses, there's money to talk about making the lives of people who already have it easy even easier? I will never see how this project is justified the way things are right now. There's just no excuse for this city...this country to be trying to fix problems outside it's borders and home is a rotting mess.

 

I'm sorry for those who live in jersey but I really don't care about any of the points you have in being for this project. Your guy in charge is a screw up and your issues should be his to deal with. NYC Transit has to complete the projects it has going already. Because if they're half-assing the second avenue subway, what makes any of you think they won't halfass an extention of the subway?

[Roadcruiser1]

Maybe the best idea here if this idea goes through is to have four tracks. The idea is to designate 2 tracks as railroad tracks for Amtrak trains to run from Secaucus to the Port Authority Bus Terminal, and to have 2 tracks for the to run from Secaucus to 34th Street, but this could cost twice as much as the original idea for 2 tracks, and can run into the price tag of $10 Billion. That is the almost the same price tag as the original ARC tunnel idea.

[mark1447]

MTA should just take over Path. Make Path part of the subway if they want to and call that your "7 Line extension"

 

MTA needs to stop playing nice with republican politicians. they dont want to pay up, they don't get anything period end of story. same thing with LI Bus

 

PATH can not be taken over my because its also apart of NJ which MTA does NOT cover. PA NY/NJ handles all of that...

 

 

Again I think NY and NJ should work together to deal with the ARC, i prefer no line in NJ..

[LRG]

As neutral as I am on extending the to New Jersey, New York City should be more focused on expanding service within its own sector before going past city limits. We have the Second Avenue Subway, East Side Access, work going on on the Culver Viaduct, and a plethora of other stuff.

 

I'm not outrightly against sending the to Jersey, but if anything the MTA should be more focused in improving transit options in Staten Island over sending one of their own subway lines into another state, or at least make it a priority.

[Roadcruiser1]

I think the LIRR should go to Staten Island, and not the regular NYC Subway. Some people in Staten Island still think of the subway as the one that we would see in the 1980's. The NYC Subway extension to Staten Island would most likely not happen in this century, but it will happen once they gain a large enough population of people from the LIRR, and the HBLR.

[metsfan]

Ok, let me try to explain this in simple easy to understand terms.

 

PATH has a plan for 10 car trains on the newark to wtc line. This is 2 more than they operate with now, and enough to equal one additional whole 8 car train every 20 minutes on peak hours, that is about equal to three additional trains per hour, over 3 hours is 9 additional trains. That is a lot of increased capacity. They are also creating a new system which will allow the longer trains to run closer together, which would up that 9 train figure to 13 or 15. So you can see PATH has a plan for expansion that will drastically increase how many people it can move per hour once fully implemented.

 

However, PATH is not a solution by itself, and can only ease a small bit of congestion between NY and NJ.

 

People say you'd take the 7 train to secaucus, then get on trenton or main/bergen and PJ bound trains. Got news for you, you want to get on in new york or hoboken so you can find a seat. People who get on one station out from the terminus all ready have a hard time finding seats on most peak hour peak direction trains.

 

You cannot extend anything from hoboken, the terminal is a historic landmark. There's no space there for anything, it's amazing they fit as much in there as they did back in the 20's... Trains from points west out to chicago terminated here, as well as there being a trolly loop where the bus lanes are and the H&M underground. Building anything more would be too far away to be useful.

 

The ideal solution, 2 more tunnels/tracks between the ladder into NYP and LACK interlocking in NJ outside secaucus transfer station is something amtrak will eventually have to do, and it will need NJT and the PA and the state of new york and new jersey to pitch in funds. There would be a portion of time where all traffic was diverted to the outer tracks to work on the original tunnels to shore them up and make them more water tight, allowing slightly higher speeds, and maybe they'd put in overhead rail to remove and wire related problems.

 

The ARC/THE tunnel plan is what NJT needed. Even if it dead ended in NYC it would have solved the trains per hour under the hudson dilemma for a long, long time into the future, enough time to give amtrak time to do its own 2 tunnel plan as stated above in 25-30 years.

 

Some tiny little IRT sized cars going between manhattan and secaucus transfer is, in essence a distraction to blind people of the fact that CC is taking all the ARC funds and putting them for road/highway projects, vs focusing on a project that was fully funded and had all ready begun. It will never happen, it's a stupid useless idea and people really, really, really need to move on and back to a REAL rail solution, be it something like ARC or whatever.

 

- A

[Tokkemon]

Lets build a really big rail bridge between Jersey City and the West Side.

 

How's that?