MTA: Long Island Bus faces deepest cuts

[FamousNYLover]

I made to 7:20am N33 Long Beach bus and I got lots of signatures from N33 bus ride.

Including on 7:50 N33 Far Rockaway bus.

Then, went I got N32 which suppose to arrive Central/Mott Avs at 8:22, came five minutes late at 8:27, and it was CRUSH LOADED.

When bus got near Woodmere, I finally got seat.

B/O was very happy when I made announcement about public hearing.

I got off at Trinity Pl by Hewlett-Woodmere Library, where one of librarian was doing petition, which I was helping her.

I stop by at library, got visitor pass for internet, and 50 cent printing paper.

I'm now waiting for N32 suppose to arriving Irving Pl 9:42.

[checkmatechamp13]

I have a question about N79 ridership: Is it generally higher east of Hicksville or west of Hicksville?

 

I think that, in addition to saving the N1, N54/N55, N58, and N79 (except for Sunday service), I think the N22A should be extended to Hicksville via Old Country Road to help the N79 (and, to a lesser extent, the N22).

[Shortline Bus]

I have a question about N79 ridership: Is it generally higher east of Hicksville or west of Hicksville?

 

I think that, in addition to saving the N54/N55, N58, and N79, I think the N22A should be extended to Hicksville via Old Country Road to help the N79 (and, to a lesser extent, the N22).

 

Checkmate if your parents allow IMO try to busfan LIB especially if becomes private and before they get ride of metrocards. It would answer many of your questions.

 

FYI. The N22a runs weekday rush hours only as 'supplemental service' to the N22.

 

 

Of course the N78/79 gets most of it's ridership *west* of Hicksville.

That why i been advocating that some form of bus service is needed on Old Country 7 days a week especially since it's the Hylan Blvd of Central Nassau County filled w/ stores such as Wal-Mart and Target(Westbury)etc.

[checkmatechamp13]

I don't have the time to busfan.

 

I know the N22A runs as a rush hour (bidirectional) supplement to the N22. That is why I felt it should be extended: The time when the N79 will be the most crowded along Old Country Road is during rush hours.

 

As far as the N79 goes, the reason why I suggested that Sunday service be eliminated is because it is expensive to operate. Weekday service costs $3.52 per passenger and Saturday service costs $3.70 per passenger. Both are high, but the N79 warrants service Monday-Saturday because of network coverage. Sundays, however, it costs $5.48 per passenger, which is too much to justify.

 

If Old Country Road is that high of a ridership generator (and the MTA can't afford to run routes just because they serve shopping districts: The ridership has to be there to support it), maybe another route can be extended to replace it. Maybe the N79 can be truncated full-time to run between Hicksville and the Walt Whitman Mall, and the N27 can be rerouted to serve Hicksville rather than Hempstead, serving Old Country Road in the process.

[B35 via Church]

I have a question about N79 ridership: Is it generally higher east of Hicksville or west of Hicksville?

not sure if I wanna call it a wash, but I'll put it like this...

 

you have times (and I don't mean on some ole once in a blue moon type of thing) where the 79 east of hicksville gets more riders (SRO, actually, as some probably wouldn't expect... I miss the ride b/w WW mall & hicksville tbh...) than west of it....

 

but overall I would say, there's a higher probability of times where's ridership west of hicksville is greater... as opposed to east of it.

 

 

In other words, don't underestimate the 79 east of hicksville.

[checkmatechamp13]

That was the reason why I asked the question: West of Hicksville has more commercial spots, and should, in theory generate higher ridership, but it has the N22 on the other side of the LIRR tracks, which probably takes away some of the riders.

 

Thanks for answering.

 

Another question: Is the N79 ridership split, where a lot of changeover occurs at Hicksville? If so, it would be a good idea to send another route (possibly the N27) over to Hicksville via Old Country Road. That way, it is easier to save the more productive portion of the route.

 

On Sundays, the cost per rider is very high. Can this be attributed to a specific portion of the route (in other words, is ridership concentrated in a certain portion of the route?), or not?

[qjtransitmaster]

I don't have the time to busfan.

 

I know the N22A runs as a rush hour (bidirectional) supplement to the N22. That is why I felt it should be extended: The time when the N79 will be the most crowded along Old Country Road is during rush hours.

 

As far as the N79 goes, the reason why I suggested that Sunday service be eliminated is because it is expensive to operate. Weekday service costs $3.52 per passenger and Saturday service costs $3.70 per passenger. Both are high, but the N79 warrants service Monday-Saturday because of network coverage. Sundays, however, it costs $5.48 per passenger, which is too much to justify.

 

If Old Country Road is that high of a ridership generator (and the MTA can't afford to run routes just because they serve shopping districts: The ridership has to be there to support it), maybe another route can be extended to replace it. Maybe the N79 can be truncated full-time to run between Hicksville and the Walt Whitman Mall, and the N27 can be rerouted to serve Hicksville rather than Hempstead, serving Old Country Road in the process.

If you attended the meeting then you already herd me discuss that. I already suggested something like that to the MTA board via a typed proposal I sent to them. while I was there. However N27 needs not be on old country road as there is a more frequent route that can do it better. hint: they are numbered in the teens

[Joel Up Front]

The N15 only travels down a sliver of Old Country Road....

[checkmatechamp13]

If you attended the meeting then you already herd me discuss that. I already suggested something like that to the MTA board via a typed proposal I sent to them. while I was there. However N27 needs not be on old country road as there is a more frequent route that can do it better. hint: they are numbered in the teens

 

But does Old Country Road need the frequent service that the N15 would provide? The N27 would actually perfectly match the headways of the former N78/N79. They have a combined headway of 30 minutes on weekdays, and that is the exact headway of the N27. In addition, the MTA would also save a little bit of money, as it would eliminate the portion between Hempstead and the RFM.

 

In addition, sending the N27 along Old Country Road would make it less duplicative with the LIRR Oyster Bay Branch. Right now, if you are regularly making a trip between the Oyster Bay Branch and Hempstead, you can buy a UniTicket, take the LIRR to Mineola, and transfer to the N40/N41 (or, if you want to save money, you can take the N23 to the N40/N41). This way, the N27 would serve a different role than the Oyster Bay Branch.

[Shortline Bus]

But does Old Country Road need the frequent service that the N15 would provide? The N27 would actually perfectly match the headways of the former N78/N79. They have a combined headway of 30 minutes on weekdays, and that is the exact headway of the N27. In addition, the MTA would also save a little bit of money, as it would eliminate the portion between Hempstead and the RFM.

 

In addition, sending the N27 along Old Country Road would make it less duplicative with the LIRR Oyster Bay Branch. Right now, if you are regularly making a trip between the Oyster Bay Branch and Hempstead, you can buy a UniTicket, take the LIRR to Mineola, and transfer to the N40/N41 (or, if you want to save money, you can take the N23 to the N40/N41). This way, the N27 would serve a different role than the Oyster Bay Branch.

 

Not a bad idea. Plus the N79 could run only between Walt Whitman and Hicksville Monday-Saturdays.

 

Not to mention you can use the N15/35 for service between RFM and Hempstead as well.

[qjtransitmaster]

But does Old Country Road need the frequent service that the N15 would provide? The N27 would actually perfectly match the headways of the former N78/N79. They have a combined headway of 30 minutes on weekdays, and that is the exact headway of the N27. In addition, the MTA would also save a little bit of money, as it would eliminate the portion between Hempstead and the RFM.

 

In addition, sending the N27 along Old Country Road would make it less duplicative with the LIRR Oyster Bay Branch. Right now, if you are regularly making a trip between the Oyster Bay Branch and Hempstead, you can buy a UniTicket, take the LIRR to Mineola, and transfer to the N40/N41 (or, if you want to save money, you can take the N23 to the N40/N41). This way, the N27 would serve a different role than the Oyster Bay Branch.

 

actually I was loooking along the lines of select N16 trips on weekdays and N15 on weekends but that was a good guess the reason why I didn't tell the exact route and plan I wanted was cause I want to become a transit planner. I already have plans for maryland and new jersey that could radically change transit there!! that was why I was so vague cause I dont want to make it easy for my ideas to get just used

[checkmatechamp13]

Not a bad idea. Plus the N79 could run only between Walt Whitman and Hicksville Monday-Saturdays.

 

Not to mention you can use the N15/35 for service between RFM and Hempstead as well.

 

I sent an email to the MTA with my thoughts on which routes should be saved:

 

To whom it may concern,

 

I have written to the MTA many times before regarding service, and would like to offer my comments and suggestions on the reductions in bus service taking place in Nassau County.

I understand that Nassau County has not paid the money it owes to the MTA, and as a result, the MTA needs to reduce service to balance its budget. However, I feel that the following reductions should be reconsidered:

 

The elimination of the N1 route (Priority: High):

The N1 route is a fairly efficient route, having a per-passenger operating cost of $3.14 on weekdays, $3.33 on Saturdays, and $3.70 on Sundays. It is the only transit service available for parts of Elmont and Floral Park. In addition, by keeping it around, the MTA can provide an alternative for some former N2 and N8 passengers who would’ve otherwise had no alternative.

In an effort to reduce costs, the N1 can be truncated to run between Elmont Road/Hempstead Turnpike and the Valley Stream Mall. Customers along Hempstead Turnpike can use the N6 route, and customers in Gibson and Hewlett can use the LIRR Far Rockaway Branch or N32 bus.

 

The elimination of the N33 route (Priority: Medium):

The N33 is also a fairly efficient route, having a per-passenger operating cost of $2.60 on weekdays and $3.86 on Saturdays. Sunday service is less efficient, costing $5.50 per passenger. This route provides a direct connection between Long Beach and Far Rockaway and, although passengers have an alternative of taking the Long Beach West Loop route to the N15 to the N32, that trip would be very circuitous and take much more time. That is why I feel that weekday and Saturday service should be preserved on this route.

In an effort to reduce costs, Sunday service can be eliminated due to low ridership and high cost per passenger.

 

The elimination of the N54/N55 route (Priority: High):

The N54/N55 is also a fairly efficient route, having a per-passenger operating cost of $2.70 on weekdays, $3.96 on Saturdays, and $2.70 on Sundays. They are also the only transit option for a large section of the towns of Uniondale, North Merrick, North Bellmore, North Wantagh, and Massapequa. The nearest transit options are the routes on Hempstead Turnpike (the N70/N71/N72) and LIRR, both of which are almost 2 miles from Jerusalem Avenue.

My recommendation is to keep service at the current levels on weekdays (as the demand for service warrants 30 minute headways on weekdays), but discontinue the N54 on Saturdays, in an effort to reduce costs. In addition, by keeping it around, the MTA would an alternative for some former N46, N50, N51, N73/N74, and N80/N81 passengers who would‘ve otherwise had no alternative.

 

The elimination of the N57 and N58 routes (Priority: High for the N58, Medium for the N57):

The N57 is a fairly efficient route, having a per-passenger operating cost of $3.34 per passenger on weekdays, when it runs. The N58 is even more efficient, having a per-passenger operating cost of $2.81 on weekdays, $1.76 Saturdays (this is below the Nassau County average), and $2.59 Sundays. A representative of the Town of Great Neck has stated that, as there is a parking shortage at the Great Neck LIRR station, many of her constituents take public transportation to access the railroad station. As Great Neck residents have a high income, many of them can afford to drive into Manhattan, but choose to take public transportation because of its convenience. If the N57 and N58 are eliminated, they might not be able to find parking at the railroad station, and may will probably decide to a

railroad station closer to Manhattan. As a result, the MTA will lose revenue, not only from the bus fares that they would’ve paid, but from the LIRR fares.

 

The elimination of the N79 route (Priority: High):

The N79 is also a fairly efficient route, having a per-passenger operating cost of $3.52 on weekdays, and $3.70 on Saturdays. Sunday service is less efficient, having a per-passenger operating cost of $5.48. I recommend that the route be truncated to run between the Walt Whitman Mall and Hicksville LIRR station. As Old Country Road has many businesses, I recommend that the N27 be routed away from Hempstead, and travel along Old Country Road to replace the western portion of the N79 route. Sunday service would be eliminated on the N79 (east of Hicksville) due to low ridership.

This plan offers several advantages. Firstly, it gives the N27 less duplication with parallel transit services. Right now, passengers going to Hempstead have the option of taking the N23 bus or LIRR Oyster Bay Branch to Mineola and transferring to the N40/N41 bus to Hempstead. This would give passengers in that corridor access to stores along Old Country Road, as well service to Hicksville. In addition, this would allow service to be truncated on the eastern portion of the N79, without affecting the western portion of the route.

The service along Old Country Road would remain the same as it is today: Buses would come every 30 minutes during rush hours and middays, and every 60 minutes on evenings and weekends.

 

The elimination of the N80 route (Priority: Medium)

Although the N80 is an inefficient route, with a per-passenger cost of $7.70 on weekdays and $12.54 on Saturdays, it does provide a network coverage role in terms of providing a north-south service east of Uniondale Avenue. Although the N50 is more cost-efficient (with a per-passenger cost of $5.73 on weekdays), the N80 is further east, and has fewer alternatives along the route (the N49 covers a portion of the N50 route). The N80 would gain additional riders as a result of the elimination of nearby north-south routes (the N73/N74 and N81).

As Saturday ridership is low, and has a high cost per passenger, Saturday service can be eliminated on the N80 route.

 

I thank you for taking the time to read this letter and look forward to a response.

[qjtransitmaster]

I sent an email to the MTA with my thoughts on which routes should be saved:

 

To whom it may concern,

 

I have written to the MTA many times before regarding service, and would like to offer my comments and suggestions on the reductions in bus service taking place in Nassau County.

I understand that Nassau County has not paid the money it owes to the MTA, and as a result, the MTA needs to reduce service to balance its budget. However, I feel that the following reductions should be reconsidered:

 

The elimination of the N1 route (Priority: High):

The N1 route is a fairly efficient route, having a per-passenger operating cost of $3.14 on weekdays, $3.33 on Saturdays, and $3.70 on Sundays. It is the only transit service available for parts of Elmont and Floral Park. In addition, by keeping it around, the MTA can provide an alternative for some former N2 and N8 passengers who would’ve otherwise had no alternative.

In an effort to reduce costs, the N1 can be truncated to run between Elmont Road/Hempstead Turnpike and the Valley Stream Mall. Customers along Hempstead Turnpike can use the N6 route, and customers in Gibson and Hewlett can use the LIRR Far Rockaway Branch or N32 bus.

 

The elimination of the N33 route (Priority: Medium):

The N33 is also a fairly efficient route, having a per-passenger operating cost of $2.60 on weekdays and $3.86 on Saturdays. Sunday service is less efficient, costing $5.50 per passenger. This route provides a direct connection between Long Beach and Far Rockaway and, although passengers have an alternative of taking the Long Beach West Loop route to the N15 to the N32, that trip would be very circuitous and take much more time. That is why I feel that weekday and Saturday service should be preserved on this route.

In an effort to reduce costs, Sunday service can be eliminated due to low ridership and high cost per passenger.

 

The elimination of the N54/N55 route (Priority: High):

The N54/N55 is also a fairly efficient route, having a per-passenger operating cost of $2.70 on weekdays, $3.96 on Saturdays, and $2.70 on Sundays. They are also the only transit option for a large section of the towns of Uniondale, North Merrick, North Bellmore, North Wantagh, and Massapequa. The nearest transit options are the routes on Hempstead Turnpike (the N70/N71/N72) and LIRR, both of which are almost 2 miles from Jerusalem Avenue.

My recommendation is to keep service at the current levels on weekdays (as the demand for service warrants 30 minute headways on weekdays), but discontinue the N54 on Saturdays, in an effort to reduce costs. In addition, by keeping it around, the MTA would an alternative for some former N46, N50, N51, N73/N74, and N80/N81 passengers who would‘ve otherwise had no alternative.

 

The elimination of the N57 and N58 routes (Priority: High for the N58, Medium for the N57):

The N57 is a fairly efficient route, having a per-passenger operating cost of $3.34 per passenger on weekdays, when it runs. The N58 is even more efficient, having a per-passenger operating cost of $2.81 on weekdays, $1.76 Saturdays (this is below the Nassau County average), and $2.59 Sundays. A representative of the Town of Great Neck has stated that, as there is a parking shortage at the Great Neck LIRR station, many of her constituents take public transportation to access the railroad station. As Great Neck residents have a high income, many of them can afford to drive into Manhattan, but choose to take public transportation because of its convenience. If the N57 and N58 are eliminated, they might not be able to find parking at the railroad station, and may will probably decide to a

railroad station closer to Manhattan. As a result, the MTA will lose revenue, not only from the bus fares that they would’ve paid, but from the LIRR fares.

 

The elimination of the N79 route (Priority: High):

The N79 is also a fairly efficient route, having a per-passenger operating cost of $3.52 on weekdays, and $3.70 on Saturdays. Sunday service is less efficient, having a per-passenger operating cost of $5.48. I recommend that the route be truncated to run between the Walt Whitman Mall and Hicksville LIRR station. As Old Country Road has many businesses, I recommend that the N27 be routed away from Hempstead, and travel along Old Country Road to replace the western portion of the N79 route. Sunday service would be eliminated on the N79 (east of Hicksville) due to low ridership.

This plan offers several advantages. Firstly, it gives the N27 less duplication with parallel transit services. Right now, passengers going to Hempstead have the option of taking the N23 bus or LIRR Oyster Bay Branch to Mineola and transferring to the N40/N41 bus to Hempstead. This would give passengers in that corridor access to stores along Old Country Road, as well service to Hicksville. In addition, this would allow service to be truncated on the eastern portion of the N79, without affecting the western portion of the route.

The service along Old Country Road would remain the same as it is today: Buses would come every 30 minutes during rush hours and middays, and every 60 minutes on evenings and weekends.

 

The elimination of the N80 route (Priority: Medium)

Although the N80 is an inefficient route, with a per-passenger cost of $7.70 on weekdays and $12.54 on Saturdays, it does provide a network coverage role in terms of providing a north-south service east of Uniondale Avenue. Although the N50 is more cost-efficient (with a per-passenger cost of $5.73 on weekdays), the N80 is further east, and has fewer alternatives along the route (the N49 covers a portion of the N50 route). The N80 would gain additional riders as a result of the elimination of nearby north-south routes (the N73/N74 and N81).

As Saturday ridership is low, and has a high cost per passenger, Saturday service can be eliminated on the N80 route.

 

I thank you for taking the time to read this letter and look forward to a response.

 

Sorry man But I already beat ya to the punch I sent a detailed proposal on the modification of LIB that increases efficiency. I sent the proposal directly to the board on the day of the meeting but I go after service modification rather than outright saving it. If N58 and N25 were merged then ppl on N58 would have access to earlier buses to catch earlier trains and the cost of the combined route is much less. My proposal smothers out inefficient routes into different more efficient forms which is on a level of a transit consultant. Many ppl mistook me for an urban planner as a result. But it's nice that you are trying to figure out what my plan is. I am glad ppl want LIB to stay however my plan also has no compromise either. The N1,2 and 8 arent compatible with nassau's bus structure they are better off merged with queens routes HINT: they are very close!!!!! one rte ya have to look very hard for.

[checkmatechamp13]

I would've suggested an N25/N58 merger, except for the fact that riders on one half of the route would miss their trains (unless the buses were held at Great Neck long enough for everybody to make their connections)

 

As far the N1, N2, and N8 go, I don't think the MTA would want to have its LI Bus routes associated with its NYCT routes considering the fact that Nassau doesn't want to pay the money. If it keeps them seperate, it only has to deal with Nassau County riders, but if it combines them with a Queens route, it has to deal with complaints from Queens riders as well.

 

BTW, were you thinking of combining them with the Q4 and Q83?

[Joel Up Front]

Most N25s miss PW trains, anyway. At least at Lynbrook, if you miss one, there's always another train in about 30 minutes...

[qjtransitmaster]

I would've suggested an N25/N58 merger, except for the fact that riders on one half of the route would miss their trains (unless the buses were held at Great Neck long enough for everybody to make their connections)

 

As far the N1, N2, and N8 go, I don't think the MTA would want to have its LI Bus routes associated with its NYCT routes considering the fact that Nassau doesn't want to pay the money. If it keeps them seperate, it only has to deal with Nassau County riders, but if it combines them with a Queens route, it has to deal with complaints from Queens riders as well.

 

BTW, were you thinking of combining them with the Q4 and Q83?

 

That was exactly what I would suggest some buses southbound would be held for PW train ppl. So the N25/58 merger would be reformatted into a more efficient route on the N25 side. This way due to N25 starting earlier than 58 the combined route will allow for more connections read their schedules closely to understand what I mean.

 

ur right about Q4 and 83 good guess as the modified rtes would be in a more efficient form and better able to take cars of the road than the N2 and 8 forms which aren't frequent enough to even be an option however the extended rtes will also take queens cars off the road as those who normally go to elmont can now use LTD service. and Interlining can be done while eliminating deadhead runs from green acres!!!!

[User]

The N20/N21 might be able to be replaced by some Q12 buses extended to Great Neck (which was a plan a few years ago)

 

The N20 bus actually not only needs to go to the Roslyn clocktower, but to at least Glen Cove road for transfer to N27. That's the way to get to the Roosevelt Field Mall, a well-used transfer point.

 

Luckily, the N20/21 aren't one of the bus lines proposed for being cut.

[qjtransitmaster]

The N20 bus actually not only needs to go to the Roslyn clocktower, but to at least Glen Cove road for transfer to N27. That's the way to get to the Roosevelt Field Mall, a well-used transfer point.

 

Luckily, the N20/21 aren't one of the bus lines proposed for being cut.

 

N20 needs to just stop with the games and travel the full route!!!!! The Q12 should only go to great neck during rush hour. To replace the wasteful N20 short trips no one really uses the ones that end at great neck big waste its like deadheading!!!!! outside of rush hour no one will use Q12 beyond queens!!!! those Q12 at great neck should become LTD trips during rush hr like merging N26 with Q43 LTD!!!!!

 

Actually the clock tower is a 10 to 15 min walk to the train station where N27 is.

[FamousNYLover]

From my experience on N20, lots of people does take N20 short trip, even in noon.

[Vistausss]

Actually the clock tower is a 10 to 15 min walk to the train station where N27 is.

 

Imagine walking that every day, when you go to and from your work. Would be painful. Better to have a bus there.

[FamousNYLover]

Speaking off public hearing, Greg Mocker caught Nancy Shevell was text messaging than listening to people.

[Vistausss]

Maybe she did listen. I can text message and listen to people too.

[FamousNYLover]

Here's link.

Greg Mocker Blog

[PinePower]

N20 needs to just stop with the games and travel the full route!!!!! The Q12 should only go to great neck during rush hour. To replace the wasteful N20 short trips no one really uses the ones that end at great neck big waste its like deadheading!!!!! outside of rush hour no one will use Q12 beyond queens!!!! those Q12 at great neck should become LTD trips during rush hr like merging N26 with Q43 LTD!!!!!

 

Actually the clock tower is a 10 to 15 min walk to the train station where N27 is.

 

You mean down Main street, right, to the Roslyn Rail? It is hilly though. Those N20 short trips should at least go to Roslyn Rail, many actually turn there.

[R32 3838]

Its Funny All The 1800's are in LI and the 1500's are still running, 1503,1518 and 1519, But lets see what happens to LIB going private.