Joel Up Front Posted March 13, 2011 Share #251 Posted March 13, 2011 Which depot would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q101viaSteinway Posted March 13, 2011 Share #252 Posted March 13, 2011 Which depot would that be? Any Harlem depot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJC Posted March 13, 2011 Share #253 Posted March 13, 2011 Ok, first off, how can you merge a Staten Island EXP route with a Queens EXP route? We dont have an exp route that connects to 3 boroughs in terms of pickups and drop-offs. You'd need MORE buses which would INCREASE OPERATING COSTS and making exp bus service completely unreliable! You again misread what I meant more buses aren't nessesary THE BUSES ARE RESTRUCTURED INTO TRI-BOROUGH LIMITED STOP LINES. THEY BECOME OPEN-DOOR WITH LIMITED STOPS IN MANHATTAN AND CLOSED DOOR IN OUTER BOROUGHS. THEREFORE LETS SAY THE X1 IS SCHEDULED TO DEPART 6TH AVE AT 57TH TO STATEN ISLAND AT 12 MINDIGHT THEN QM5 SCHEDULED TO ARRIVE THERE AT 11:50 PM IF THEY WERE COMBINED THEN INSTEAD OF THOSE 2 BUSES THE ONE QM5 IS DONE WITH IT'S RUN THERE 10 MINUTES LATER IT BECOMES X1 TO STATEN ISLAND REDUCING OPERATING COSTS. LOOK AT THEIR SCHEDULES SOME OF THE QUEENS RTES HAVE SIMILAR ARRIVAL TIMES TO THE STATEN ISLAND DEPARTURES AS WELL. I was waiting for the BM5 and on 5th ave I saw 3 bronx express buses drive down literally 2 minutes before the BM5 arrived if merged instead of 4 vehicles there would be 3 cause one of the bronx buses become LIMITED IN MANHATTAN THEN CAN BECOME BM5 THE OTHER 2 BUSES CAN BE REUSED FOR BM1 AND 2 RESPECTIVELY!!!!!!! thus having more passengers per bus vehicle. And reducing fuel consumptions of the buses also making the MCI buses more efficient. You are RIGHT (IN THEIR CURRENT FORM) AS CLOSED DOOR PICKUP/DROP OFF ONLY RTES They can't connect 3 boroughs HOWEVER IF THEIR FORM IN MANHATTAN IS CHANGED TO OPEN DOOR LIMITED STOP THEY CAN SERVE 3 BOROUGHS WITHOUT GETTING SLOWED DOWN!!!!!! STAND AT 5TH AVE if you observe carefully you will NOTICE SOMETHING interesting in the way the buses run and you can see their worst weakness and if you document the rte numbers you will learn the real meaning behind what I am saying. And I though I've seen it all....now you want Staten Island division have runs on some Queens EXP lines??WTF are you on?that money being wasted there. NOT express operators THAT IS WHY EXPRESS BUSES COST SO MUCH TO OPERATE!!!!!! Status quo again you will never get it. The lack of changing drivers on express operators prevents efficiency accross the city. And prevents buses from swapping rtes. But if express operators DID switch buses there would be less buses needed to provide the service and even with the unions the bus operators would NOT drive the full 3 boros either!!!!!! The bronx operator lets say will drive the BXM6 to 57th then he leaves the bus the brooklyn driver takes over the bus becomes X28 the brooklyn driver drives that portion and continues to that garage in brooklyn. Then the same bronx driver will repeat the process in reverse at madison ave. however on weekends bronx express rtes that merge into X28/27 WON'T MERGE. And they will revert to their original form. You outlined all the barriers to this which are the current forms and limits of the express bus but if modified and changed then your argument becomes invalid!!!!!!! SAY NO TO STATUS QUO!!!!!!!! Plus interlining with local runs could be eliminated altogether. What?give it a rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted March 13, 2011 Share #254 Posted March 13, 2011 The easiest thing to do is just have the express buses lay up somewhere in Manhattan (from all 4 other boroughs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gramps Posted March 13, 2011 Share #255 Posted March 13, 2011 NOT express operators THAT IS WHY EXPRESS BUSES COST SO MUCH TO OPERATE!!!!!! Status quo again you will never get it. The lack of changing drivers on express operators prevents efficiency accross the city. And prevents buses from swapping rtes. But if express operators DID switch buses there would be less buses needed to provide the service and even with the unions the bus operators would NOT drive the full 3 boros either!!!!!! The bronx operator lets say will drive the BXM6 to 57th then he leaves the bus the brooklyn driver takes over the bus becomes X28 the brooklyn driver drives that portion and continues to that garage in brooklyn. Then the same bronx driver will repeat the process in reverse at madison ave. however on weekends bronx express rtes that merge into X28/27 WON'T MERGE. And they will revert to their original form. You outlined all the barriers to this which are the current forms and limits of the express bus but if modified and changed then your argument becomes invalid!!!!!!! SAY NO TO STATUS QUO!!!!!!!! Plus interlining with local runs could be eliminated altogether. Express buses do not cost any more to operate than locals. The financial issue with express buses is revenue. While there is a premium fare, you only fill the seat once a trip. Multiply $ 5.50 x the number of seats on an MCI (?somebody?) and that is the maximum revenue generated for the trip. Now, what is the fully loaded hourly cost to operate a MTA bus ? PS - Please don't tell me to slow down the "express" to allow passengers on and off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted March 13, 2011 Share #256 Posted March 13, 2011 Any Harlem depot Yup. People ask why there are so many bus depots in minority neighborhoods. The answer is that minorities moved into bus depot neighborhoods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 13, 2011 Share #257 Posted March 13, 2011 The easiest thing to do is just have the express buses lay up somewhere in Manhattan (from all 4 other boroughs). actually that may be a better idea I only said that cause of deadheads and ppl complaining about crappy service to outerboroughs during rush hour due to increase in jobs in the outerboroghs that was why I even brought up the 3 boro idea. Can you come up with an idea to make express buses more efficient plz let me know?? I read the create bus rte panel some ideas were brilliant but then again all I suggested was change the forms of rtes so they can be more flexible!!! An MTA board member told me express buses board once and that is why they cost so much to run. and they return empty at rush which is wrong cause traffic in the reverse commute direction is horrid those ppl might love the option of an express bus so traffic can be reduced. full express buses take 55 cars or more off the road That was why I even came up with that idea to appeal to BK ppl who want one seat ride to northern manhattan and BX to lower without the use of bxm18 so during OFF-PEAK instead of sending an empty bus from queens to manhattan non revenue to become QM5 or 2 An X1 goes and finishes its run switches drivers then continues as QM5 so the express bus boards TWICE NOT ONCE during a run. and reverse with QM5 process repeats with BX and BM without adding stops the drop-off and pickup stops on BM and BXM are so close it would be easier to make a stop both at OFF-PEAK ONLY. At rush hour add reverse trips instead of sending empty buses so ppl can use them instead of cause gridlock on the pkwy. Use the same buses that go empty turn them into trips ppl use em then get off then buses go in reverse. My Tri-borough idea was for OFF-PEAK ONLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 13, 2011 Share #258 Posted March 13, 2011 Express buses do not cost any more to operate than locals. The financial issue with express buses is revenue. While there is a premium fare, you only fill the seat once a trip. Multiply $ 5.50 x the number of seats on an MCI (?somebody?) and that is the maximum revenue generated for the trip. Now, what is the fully loaded hourly cost to operate a MTA bus ? PS - Please don't tell me to slow down the "express" to allow passengers on and off. That weakness was what my plan was to eliminate. The buses wont be slowed down by allowing drop-off and pick up cause this is mitigated by the spacing between stops which is like 10 blocks. On each rte My intention wasnt to slow them down but increase their maximum revenue. By killing off deadheads south of 57th street for BX and BM as a result under my plan only select rte would continue south of 57th due to the high volume of buses there. This would reduce the hourly cost if done right. The part that would make this work was left out of this forum so your opposition was expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 13, 2011 Share #259 Posted March 13, 2011 lol...If I shot someone to death or stabbed someone to death, I would still be considered a murderer. point there, being... just b/c he isn't as stubborn as other proposal makers, doesn't make his ideas any better.... oh, nah... the acronym NIMBY stands for not in my back yard.... in a nutshell, it's basically a person who opposes change in their own neighborhood/territory, etc..... and will stop at nothing to see that that "change" doesn't happen.... Nassau county's full of them. An example would be, the nimby's out in syosset who opposed the relocating of (a new) LIRR Syosset, w/ which the current station has a problem w/ huge platform gaps.... Another example would be the floral park nimby's that shut down the proposed Q79 extension to LIRR floral park... on more than one occasion.... I may be able to beat that floral park nimby I have an idea the Q79 in it's form didnt directly serve them cause those are nassau ppl only queens ppl will benefit however if it went to green acres their argument may become powerless!!!! I think there is a way to beat nassau NIMBYS But this economic climate may play against them bigtime!!!!!:cool: thanks for clearing that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted March 14, 2011 Share #260 Posted March 14, 2011 Maybe it's time to put this thread to bed since it's gotten so far out of topic. (lock) How does the BXM11 have to do with LIB bus routes N19?:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 14, 2011 Share #261 Posted March 14, 2011 Maybe it's time to put this thread to bed since it's gotten so far out of topic.(lock) How does the BXM11 have to do with LIB bus routes N19?:confused: I am sorry for that. I think N19 should get merged and the MTA needs to market themselves better to the public of nassau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted March 14, 2011 Share #262 Posted March 14, 2011 I am sorry for that. I think N19 should get merged and the MTA needs to market themselves better to the public of nassau I would suggest that it's not the who has the marketing problem. Nassau County has the problem and it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to see that the county does not want to be responsible for bus transit, period. The runs the railroad through Nassau county and that's the only public transit the county cares about. Do you really believe that the big money backers of the Republican majority give a damn about buses in Nassau ? If anything they'd rather see a private concern run the buses, if anyone runs it.That's their philosphy and always has been. You're living in a dream world IMO. All of the restructuring in the world means jack if the powers that be don't want the service to cost THEM anything. An automobile to the LIRR station is public transportation in their eyes. Your rants against the are directed at the wrong party. The problem is Nassau County. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 14, 2011 Share #263 Posted March 14, 2011 I would suggest that it's not the who has the marketing problem. Nassau County has the problem and it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to see that the county does not want to be responsible for bus transit, period. The runs the railroad through Nassau county and that's the only public transit the county cares about. Do you really believe that the big money backers of the Republican majority give a damn about buses in Nassau ? If anything they'd rather see a private concern run the buses, if anyone runs it.That's their philosphy and always has been. You're living in a dream world IMO. All of the restructuring in the world means jack if the powers that be don't want the service to cost THEM anything. An automobile to the LIRR station is public transportation in their eyes. Your rants against the are directed at the wrong party. The problem is Nassau County. ya got a point?? nassau is mostly to blame and MTA needs to get those guys out of nassau or get dems control of nassau. cause the automobile is not efficient in a county with 1 million!!! baltimore,MD has less ppl and still has several buses that are 24/7 and some that are free nassau has NO EXCUSE FOR THE TREATMENT OF THE MTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted March 14, 2011 Share #264 Posted March 14, 2011 Baltimore is a city, not a giant suburban county like Nassau. That free bus thing does sound cool, though. Same shit, different parties - That's why I can't take these goddamned political bull**** "leaders" that do nothing but help the rich and their friends. No one wants to really help. The kind hearts that do try end up out of office, quietly or JFK style. They could not care less, even if they were fricking dead, if we all burned to a crisp in an accident on one of these things. Perhaps Mangano being more than ready to throw LIB into the proverbial gutter and hoping someone will pick it up is a sign of that. The whole "hurr ur kars roon da envirment yooz da bus" horsecrap the White House is trying to push? Well, what the hell do you want these 104,000 people to do when the would love to continue operating at the level it currently does, but the idiots that run the county it runs in want nothing to do with buses? Someone's going to snap at that hearing next Wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted March 14, 2011 Share #265 Posted March 14, 2011 nassau is mostly to blame... Nope. Nassau is completely to blame because Nassau owns the bus system and is FULLY responsible for it. The MTA is just a contractor. If the county can find some other contractor willing to work for free. Until then, MTA should just walk. ...and MTA needs to get those guys out of nassau or get dems control of nassau. The MTA doesn't govern the electoral process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BZGuy Posted March 14, 2011 Share #266 Posted March 14, 2011 actually that may be a better idea I only said that cause of deadheads and ppl complaining about crappy service to outerboroughs during rush hour due to increase in jobs in the outerboroghs that was why I even brought up the 3 boro idea. Can you come up with an idea to make express buses more efficient plz let me know?? I read the create bus rte panel some ideas were brilliant but then again all I suggested was change the forms of rtes so they can be more flexible!!! An MTA board member told me express buses board once and that is why they cost so much to run. and they return empty at rush which is wrong cause traffic in the reverse commute direction is horrid those ppl might love the option of an express bus so traffic can be reduced. full express buses take 55 cars or more off the road That was why I even came up with that idea to appeal to BK ppl who want one seat ride to northern manhattan and BX to lower without the use of bxm18 so during OFF-PEAK instead of sending an empty bus from queens to manhattan non revenue to become QM5 or 2 An X1 goes and finishes its run switches drivers then continues as QM5 so the express bus boards TWICE NOT ONCE during a run. and reverse with QM5 process repeats with BX and BM without adding stops the drop-off and pickup stops on BM and BXM are so close it would be easier to make a stop both at OFF-PEAK ONLY. At rush hour add reverse trips instead of sending empty buses so ppl can use them instead of cause gridlock on the pkwy. Use the same buses that go empty turn them into trips ppl use em then get off then buses go in reverse. My Tri-borough idea was for OFF-PEAK ONLY Dude....how much have you ridden the system? I don't even LIVE in New York and I know how much your plan would f**k up the works. First off, Interlining everything is not gonna save the any money in fact, it's gonna cost more because the are gonna have to hire more drivers to hang around Midtown to protect the schedules. Having a x1 come from SI and go out as a BxM1 and back is insane. All that would accomplish is making the entire express system late causing more people to pack onto already crushloaded subways and local buses. People's commutes are already screwed up enough, don't make it worse. Second, The already has quite a few express buses layover in Manhattan at MJQ and (still?)126th. You CAN'T have everything stay in Manhattan because you have some runs that start at midday that need a bus that went out on a AM run. If you don't believe me, go to http://www.lgaunion.com and look at the run sheets. Also alot of maintenance gets done during the midday....MJQ and 126th depot mechanics have their hands full keeping their fleets in working order to deal with another depots problem, if they even have MCI parts. Third, Reverse commute schedules can only be accommodated with enough buses and drivers. The is short on both and doesn't really have the money for mass hiring like we saw a couple of years ago. The goal is to run as many express trips in Peak direction as possible. So that means a bus goes out on the QM1 the DH'd back to Manhattan quickly to do another trip. Running the full length of a route back to Manhattan for a couple of people would make the express system more inefficient than it is. Now instead of 2-3 peak trips and B/O can only make 1 or 2. Cost vs benefit! I understand what you're trying to do, but honestly go out and ride the system. I mean really ride it....watch the traffic and passenger flows before you make suggestions like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 14, 2011 Share #267 Posted March 14, 2011 Dude....how much have you ridden the system? I don't even LIVE in New York and I know how much your plan would f**k up the works. First off, Interlining everything is not gonna save the any money in fact, it's gonna cost more because the are gonna have to hire more drivers to hang around Midtown to protect the schedules. Having a x1 come from SI and go out as a BxM1 and back is insane. All that would accomplish is making the entire express system late causing more people to pack onto already crushloaded subways and local buses. People's commutes are already screwed up enough, don't make it worse. Second, The already has quite a few express buses layover in Manhattan at MJQ and (still?)126th. You CAN'T have everything stay in Manhattan because you have some runs that start at midday that need a bus that went out on a AM run. If you don't believe me, go to http://www.lgaunion.com and look at the run sheets. Also alot of maintenance gets done during the midday....MJQ and 126th depot mechanics have their hands full keeping their fleets in working order to deal with another depots problem, if they even have MCI parts. Third, Reverse commute schedules can only be accommodated with enough buses and drivers. The is short on both and doesn't really have the money for mass hiring like we saw a couple of years ago. The goal is to run as many express trips in Peak direction as possible. So that means a bus goes out on the QM1 the DH'd back to Manhattan quickly to do another trip. Running the full length of a route back to Manhattan for a couple of people would make the express system more inefficient than it is. Now instead of 2-3 peak trips and B/O can only make 1 or 2. Cost vs benefit! I understand what you're trying to do, but honestly go out and ride the system. I mean really ride it....watch the traffic and passenger flows before you make suggestions like this. or just instead of DH back to manhattan run back as SUPER EXPRESS. I have watched the traffic the heavy traffic indicates lots of unmet need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 14, 2011 Share #268 Posted March 14, 2011 Baltimore is a city, not a giant suburban county like Nassau. That free bus thing does sound cool, though. Same shit, different parties - That's why I can't take these goddamned political bull**** "leaders" that do nothing but help the rich and their friends. No one wants to really help. The kind hearts that do try end up out of office, quietly or JFK style. They could not care less, even if they were fricking dead, if we all burned to a crisp in an accident on one of these things. Perhaps Mangano being more than ready to throw LIB into the proverbial gutter and hoping someone will pick it up is a sign of that. The whole "hurr ur kars roon da envirment yooz da bus" horsecrap the White House is trying to push? Well, what the hell do you want these 104,000 people to do when the would love to continue operating at the level it currently does, but the idiots that run the county it runs in want nothing to do with buses? Someone's going to snap at that hearing next Wednesday. its gonna be me ha ha ha ha and the 2010 cuts didnt even faze me but these will drive me INSANE prepare for HELL ON THE 23RD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 14, 2011 Share #269 Posted March 14, 2011 To be honest, I actually agree with qjtransitmaster that certain routes could be run as one long route (I just wish he'd clean up his grammar when he makes his posts). The logic is that riders from say, The Bronx can make it all the way to Lower Manhattan without having to transfer, and riders from Staten Island and Brooklyn can make it all the way to Upper Manhattan (the UES and East Harlem) without having to transfer. With routes that carry heavy loads however, I would leave them as seperate routes. But this idea (assuming the unions would go for it) would make sense if lower-ridership Bronx routes were combined with lower-ridership Brooklyn routes. As far as reverse-peak service goes, he has a point: Jobs are beginning to move out to the suburbs, so if a bus deadheading back to Queens can pick up some passengers along the way, that would definitely be good. (In addition, the merging of some express routes as mentioned previously would create some induced demand for reverse-peak (and possibly off-peak) service, which is good, as it costs the MTA less to operate than peak-direction service.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 14, 2011 Share #270 Posted March 14, 2011 To be honest, I actually agree with qjtransitmaster that certain routes could be run as one long route (I just wish he'd clean up his grammar when he makes his posts). The logic is that riders from say, The Bronx can make it all the way to Lower Manhattan without having to transfer, and riders from Staten Island and Brooklyn can make it all the way to Upper Manhattan (the UES and East Harlem) without having to transfer. With routes that carry heavy loads however, I would leave them as seperate routes. But this idea (assuming the unions would go for it) would make sense if lower-ridership Bronx routes were combined with lower-ridership Brooklyn routes. As far as reverse-peak service goes, he has a point: Jobs are beginning to move out to the suburbs, so if a bus deadheading back to Queens can pick up some passengers along the way, that would definitely be good. (In addition, the merging of some express routes as mentioned previously would create some induced demand for reverse-peak (and possibly off-peak) service, which is good, as it costs the MTA less to operate than peak-direction service.) thanks that was exactly what I was aiming for the exact mergers I will type up and hand to walder himself or at least try to. I will not tell u the exact mergers I have invisioned!!!! keep guessing ppl. I will giva ya a clue the non express plan involves nassau and the bronx and at rush LGA. the belt plan I dont know about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 14, 2011 Share #271 Posted March 14, 2011 There are no Nassau County express buses. As far as which routes I would pick, I would suggest the BM1 be merged with the BxM6 and the BM3 be merged with the BxM11. I'm not sure which other routes should be paired up. Also, since the system would become too confusing if it were BBxM___, I would just rename the routes to X__. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 14, 2011 Share #272 Posted March 14, 2011 There are no Nassau County express buses. As far as which routes I would pick, I would suggest the BM1 be merged with the BxM6 and the BM3 be merged with the BxM11. I'm not sure which other routes should be paired up. Also, since the system would become too confusing if it were BBxM___, I would just rename the routes to X__. that is my plan they renumber to X with 70 to 80 series 60 and 50 series would become queens to SI via manhattan limited. Bronx to BK would become 80/70 series the triple digits I propose will be for nassau to queens and to bronx to avoid duplication!!!!!! and BK to queens and SI via belt and BX BK direct via BQE need permits on the belt and a HOV lane to make the BQE part even feasable otherwise end the buses at williamsburg. I already know the ones I will fuse. but the exact one will only be shown to board members I am being vauge on purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 14, 2011 Share #273 Posted March 14, 2011 Nope. Nassau is completely to blame because Nassau owns the bus system and is FULLY responsible for it. The MTA is just a contractor. If the county can find some other contractor willing to work for free. Until then, MTA should just walk. The MTA doesn't govern the electoral process. why cant NYC take over all the buses and takeover nassau by force let mta own those buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 14, 2011 Share #274 Posted March 14, 2011 That makes no sense. Why would the MTA want to take over the company when that would force it to provide the service? They are trying to get out of operating the services because Nassau County won't pay them. As far as your express bus plan goes, I see no need to make them into limited-stop routes. Just charge the regular express bus fare and use MCI coaches. The increased ridership might negate the need for future express bus fare hikes, but I don't think they should charge local fares. BRT buses connecting the outer boroughs running along the Belt Parkway and BQE make some sense, but I see no need to run them as express buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted March 14, 2011 Share #275 Posted March 14, 2011 why cant NYC take over all the buses and takeover nassau by force... The City can't just "conquer" Nassau. In fact, what is now Nassau seceded form Queens in 1898 to avoid becoming part of NYC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.