SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[realizm]

 

Seeing as how the amount of subway deaths is more or less level, no it isn't.

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2013/01/7287731/latest-subway-suicide-prompts-council-hearing-its-nothing-new

Regardless of how they got on the tracks, it's an issue that has come to light because the media needed some scary headlines and because the city politicians needed to make it look like they give a shit about the everyday people they see as peasants. Yes it needs to be tackled, but to really fix it would cost billions upon billions. Someone who wants to die won't mind climbing over a 4-5 foot barrier to jump, so simple barriers won't work for suicides.

 

Gotcha. But over time I still think those rates of suicide will increase as in general those numbers are climbing overall throughout the nation and that includes New York. At this point that's what I'm thinking.

 

Off topic but this continued double quoting is killing me. I'm going to make sure I post in BB Code Mode from now on.

Edited April 8, 2013 by realizm

[Guest Lance]

Notice anything?

http://www.mta.info/nyct/service/SouthFerryStationReopenApril2013.htm

What of it?

[Culver]

  

Gotcha. But over time I still think those rates of suicide will increase as in general those numbers are climbing overall throughout the nation and that includes New York. At this point that's what I'm thinking.

 

Off topic but this continued double quoting is killing me. I'm going to make sure I post in BB Code Mode from now on.

So even though the numbers have in fact been steady, they're still supposed to be increasing?

Look, if you have the spare dozen billion dollars, call up the . Otherwise, this entire discussion is a waste of everyone's time. A good way to reduce suicides is reduce unemployment, maybe not have banks destroy people's life savings on derivatives gambling, and I dunno, not have millions go bankrupt due to medical bills; but that's off-topic. Point remains: either somebody produces the money or this is all moot.

[realizm]

So even though the numbers have in fact been steady, they're still supposed to be increasing?

Look, if you have the spare dozen billion dollars, call up the . Otherwise, this entire discussion is a waste of everyone's time. A good way to reduce suicides is reduce unemployment, maybe not have banks destroy people's life savings on derivatives gambling, and I dunno, not have millions go bankrupt due to medical bills; but that's off-topic. Point remains: either somebody produces the money or this is all moot.

 

Read: http://gothamist.com/2012/12/19/in_2012_there_could_be_more_suicide.php

 

 

So what is the MTA doing about this situation? A few things. For one they are about to plaster your subways, buses and MetroCards with reminders to step away from the platform edge. Also, they are printing up 2,400 lapel buttons (see above) for workers to wear. Which can't hurt, we guess. Still, that is just the beginning.

 

In addition to awareness programs the MTA is also looking into a number of other ways to help reduce the need for subway heroes. First, they are going to equip more subway stations with "Help Points" which will allow riders to hit a button to alert authorities about emergencies (though they don't allow straphangers to stop trains from entering the station, as they do in other cities). Those should be in all stations by, oh, 2019. In addition, as we knew, the MTA is also seriously looking into the idea of platform sliding doors. The problem is that with so many different types of stations and trains, those will take a long time, and a lot of money, to be implemented (if they even can be).

 

And that's not all! Interestingly, and possibly affordably, the MTA is also looking into something called "intrusion detection," which instead of using sliding doors would simply install sensors on stations tracks that would alert authorities when something bigger than a rat is running around.

 

So, yes, the MTA is aware that you are worried about people dying on the subway. And yes, they are working on trying to make it a less frequent thing. But it is going to take some time. And rider's advocates, at least, seem okay with that. In a statement today the Straphangers Campaign said that it "thinks the MTA is taking [the problem of subway deaths] seriously, responding to public outcries in the wake of high profile incidents of riders being pushed to their deaths...This is an issue that should not go away."

 

Ans what the MTA is doing about it:

 

With subway-related deaths getting a lot of attention this year and the transit union nipping at the MTA's heelsabout it, New York City Transit president (and acting MTA CEO) Thomas Prendergast today delivered a "Customer Contact with Train Incident Report" [PDF] to a Transit Committee meeting. The gist of it? The MTA is aware that people don't like reading about subway-related deaths and is working on it. But y'all got to be patient.

 

Before we get to the MTA's plans, let's quickly look at the stats you are most interested in—how often do people actually get hit by the subway. And the answer, in 2012 at least, was 141 times. Of those incidents 51 were people who "contacted a moving train while on the platform," 54 were incidents were a passenger was "stuck on the tracks," 33 were suicides or attempted suicides and three were cases were a customer fell between cars. Further, 24 percent of the incidents involved drugs or alcohol. Which makes sense. You can compare that to previous years, here:

 

Now look at this graph if you want to talk about stats:

 

 

Apparently sine 2006 incidences where people who were struck by trains is on the on the rise. Now you should go to the next board meeting with the MTA and ask the chairperson why these considerations are NOT viable and should NOT be considered. Good luck. Obviously you will get nowhere as the MTA chairperson has already made the decision to look into the installation of measures to prevent accidents. Starting with the installation of platform doors at the stations along the extension.

 

Suicide rates are steady. Great. You are beating a dead horse. Hello, suicides are on the rise in the US in general so expect a spike in suicide death rates. Because the MTA is expecting it to occur, and fortunately they are equally concerned as much as the public about the incidences of suicide period, to the point that they are indeed taking action.

 

Do you have any sort of compassion for those who for whatever reason commit suicide in the first place? Because you are always harping on the capitol budget issue here when many others can see the MTA is investing on preventive measures and have the money apparently? Lets start there.

Edited April 8, 2013 by realizm

[Culver]

Read: http://gothamist.com/2012/12/19/in_2012_there_could_be_more_suicide.php

 

 

Ans what the MTA is doing about it:

 

 

Now look at this graph if you want to talk about stats:

 

 

Apparently sine 2006 incidences where people who were struck by trains is on the on the rise. Now you should go to the next board meeting with the MTA and ask the chairperson why these considerations are NOT viable and should NOT be considered. Good luck. Obviously you will get nowhere as the MTA chairperson has already made the decision to look into the installation of measures to prevent accidents. Starting with the installation of platform doors at the stations along the extension.

 

Suicide rates are steady. Great. You are beating a dead horse. Hello, suicides are on the rise in the US in general so expect a spike in suicide death rates. Because the MTA is expecting it to occur, and fortunately they are equally concerned as much as the public about the incidences of suicide period, to the point that they are indeed taking action.

 

Do you have any sort of compassion for those who for whatever reason commit suicide in the first place? Because you are always harping on the capitol budget issue here when many others can see the MTA is investing on preventive measures and have the money apparently? Lets start there.

I have compassion, of course I want the problem fixed. I'm just at a loss as to where you want the money to come from. I'd love for the to fix the issue, as we all know how to fix it. However, unless we find the money for it, this all means precisely dick. Yes, they'll study it and find the cheapest solution because Albany likes to talk and use the as the redheaded stepchild that gets criticized literally regardless of what it does. You can keep telling me it's bad, and I'll agree. Doesn't change the fact that the money isn't there for the solution.

[realizm]

Deleted

Edited April 8, 2013 by realizm

[realizm]

Read: http://gothamist.com/2012/12/19/in_2012_there_could_be_more_suicide.php

 

 

Ans what the MTA is doing about it:

 

So what is the MTA doing about this situation? A few things. For one they are about to plaster your subways, buses and MetroCards with reminders to step away from the platform edge. Also, they are printing up 2,400 lapel buttons (see above) for workers to wear. Which can't hurt, we guess. Still, that is just the beginning.

In addition to awareness programs the MTA is also looking into a number of other ways to help reduce the need for subway heroes. First, they are going to equip more subway stations with "Help Points" which will allow riders to hit a button to alert authorities about emergencies (though they don't allow straphangers to stop trains from entering the station, as they do in other cities). Those should be in all stations by, oh, 2019. In addition, as we knew, the MTA is also seriously looking into the idea of platform sliding doors. The problem is that with so many different types of stations and trains, those will take a long time, and a lot of money, to be implemented (if they even can be).

And that's not all! Interestingly, and possibly affordably, the MTA is also looking into something called "intrusion detection," which instead of using sliding doors would simply install sensors on stations tracks that would alert authorities when something bigger than a rat is running around.

So, yes, the MTA is aware that you are worried about people dying on the subway. And yes, they are working on trying to make it a less frequent thing. But it is going to take some time. And rider's advocates, at least, seem okay with that. In a statement today the Straphangers Campaign said that it "thinks the MTA is taking [the problem of subway deaths] seriously, responding to public outcries in the wake of high profile incidents of riders being pushed to their deaths...This is an issue that should not go away."

 

 

 

Now look at this graph if you want to talk about stats:

 

 

 

 

Apparently sine 2006 incidences where people who were struck by trains is on the on the rise. Now you should go to the next board meeting with the MTA and ask the chairperson why these considerations are NOT viable and should NOT be considered. Good luck. Obviously you will get nowhere as the MTA chairperson has already made the decision to look into the installation of measures to prevent accidents. Starting with the installation of platform doors at the stations along the extension.

 

Suicide rates are steady. Great. You are beating a dead horse. Hello, suicides are on the rise in the US in general so expect a spike in suicide death rates. Because the MTA is expecting it to occur, and fortunately they are equally concerned as much as the public about the incidences of suicide period, to the point that they are indeed taking action.

 

Do you have any sort of compassion for those who for whatever reason commit suicide in the first place? Because you are always harping on the capitol budget issue here when many others can see the MTA is investing on preventive measures and have the money apparently? Lets start there.

 

 

I have compassion, of course I want the problem fixed. I'm just at a loss as to where you want the money to come from. I'd love for the to fix the issue, as we all know how to fix it. However, unless we find the money for it, this all means precisely dick. Yes, they'll study it and find the cheapest solution because Albany likes to talk and use the as the redheaded stepchild that gets criticized literally regardless of what it does. You can keep telling me it's bad, and I'll agree. Doesn't change the fact that the money isn't there for the solution.

 

Ok. Culver, listen,

 

Look at this report from the MTA site: http://www.mta.info/...act-w-train.pdf

 

 

 

CUSTOMER CONTACT WITH 

 

TRAIN INCIDENT REPORT

 

January, 2013

 

 

Steps Taken

 

• Visited and examined other systems with 

platform doors (Seoul, JFK AirTrain, Paris)

 

• Continued outreach to other US and 

international transit systems 

 

• Monitor the evolution and development of 

platform doors through APTA, UITP and CoMET

 

 

• Concept of Operations in progress

 

– identified internal and external stakeholders 

– defined the key requirements

 

• Installation

• Operation

• Maintenance

 

So they are in the process of allocating the capitol as we speak to actually make this happen. Look at the progress they have made so far as it is. What is quoted here is not limited to the progress they have already made and invested in such as an ad campaign to warn customers about accidental falls. Which is in the pdf. if you would like to look into it.

 

Awaiting your response.

 

Edited: BB Code problems.

Edited April 8, 2013 by realizm

[MHV9218]

Had a nice swastika scratchiti-covered 6 train today. Lovely!

[realizm]

Pardon me for a second MVH, I'm going to rip this debate apart to the point of no return:

 

Courtesy of Allen Rosen:

 

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2013/04/how-will-the-mta-spend-its-new-found-money/

 

Governor Andrew Cuomo, who I once said was “not a friend of public transit“ after he cut MTA funding, now has increased MTA funding by $358 million in the 2013/14 fiscal year budget. The question is what will the MTA do with this money? There are several alternatives. The MTA could:

 

Now Culver you tell me why with the posts I have made as to why you still think the MTA is not interested, has not invested into, or actually care about this problem concerning suicides and accidents in the subways with all the references I have provided you on this page and the one before this one? 

 

Ok on MVH's comment, carry on:

 

 

Had a nice swastika scratchiti-covered 6 train today. Lovely!

Edited April 8, 2013 by realizm

[ttcsubwayfan]

Had a nice swastika scratchiti-covered 6 train today. Lovely!

 

And to think that some members of our forum support the defacing of our trains... disgusting.

[Culver]

Pardon me for a second MVH, I'm going to rip this debate to no point of return:

 

Courtesy of Allen Rosen:

 

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2013/04/how-will-the-mta-spend-its-new-found-money/

 

 

Now Culver you tell me why with the posts I have made as to why you still think the MTA is not interested, has not invested into, or actually care about this problem concerning suicides and accidents in the subways with all the references I have provided you? 

 

Ok on MVH's comment, carry on:

 

 

I'm well aware they've looked into the issue. Costs will still be high, when considering the amount of stations, and the many stations with curves both horizontal and/or vertical. I don't think I've ever said I'm against this. Rather lost on what you're trying to prove to me. I've repeatedly said they should do something and they've made it clear they're looking at it (for example detection systems). My only point is finding the billions of dollars they'll inevitably need for it. Prince Cuomo's budget accidentally giving them $40 million extra won't cover it. I don't really get your point here. I'm all for the solutions, as is the , just need to find the billions of dollars they'll need.

[realizm]

I'm well aware they've looked into the issue. Costs will still be high, when considering the amount of stations, and the many stations with curves both horizontal and/or vertical. I don't think I've ever said I'm against this. Rather lost on what you're trying to prove to me. I've repeatedly said they should do something and they've made it clear they're looking at it (for example detection systems). My only point is finding the billions of dollars they'll inevitably need for it. Prince Cuomo's budget accidentally giving them $40 million extra won't cover it. I don't really get your point here. I'm all for the solutions, as is the , just need to find the billions of dollars they'll need.

 

Given that the MTA is a public benefits corporation ummm let's see: federal funds, state funds, profits from fare revenue collection from the subway, buses tunnels and bridges, continued review and revisement of their planned capitol construction budgets, revenue from marketing ads who rent space in the MTA system for advertisements? 

 

 

Plenty of avenues here for revenue needed over time. Many other systems around the world has done it. Correct?

[Quill Depot]

Had a nice swastika scratchiti-covered 6 train today. Lovely!

 

R62A?

[Culver]

Given that the MTA is a public benefits corporation ummm let's see: federal funds, state funds, profits from fare revenue collection from the subway, buses tunnels and bridges, continued review and revisement of their planned capitol construction budgets, revenue from marketing ads who rent space in the MTA system for advertisements? 

 

 

Plenty of avenues here for revenue needed over time. Many other systems around the world has done it. Correct?

Right, but this is a) America and b) New York. Good luck getting politicians here to provide the funds. Until the incompetent clowns in Albany prove otherwise (they're a little busy right now, getting arrested for fraud and all), I'll remain a skeptical.

[realizm]

Right, but this is a) America and b) New York. Good luck getting politicians here to provide the funds. Until the incompetent clowns in Albany prove otherwise (they're a little busy right now, getting arrested for fraud and all), I'll remain a skeptical.

 

Now on that one I wholeheartedly agree. Routine monkey business up in Albany and in City Hall as usual.

[Culver]

Now on that one I wholeheartedly agree. Routine monkey business up in Albany and in City Hall as usual.

There's a big list of them getting indicted. Hurray for anything good ever happening in NY.

[Grand Concourse]

Got to visit the old South Ferry station yesterday. It was so weird being in that station again. Last time I stepped foot there was back in 2009 when I was 17. Four years later and I got to relive a brief moment of my childhood.

 

I have to say that 2013 has been an interesting year for me. I relived a few moments of my childhood: R62As on the (6)/<6>, R62As on the (post 9/11), and now the old South Ferry. What a year so far, and it's not even half over !

I forgot how long it took for me to visit the new station, but it must've been maybe half a year later. I hope I don't need to wait that long. I'm more interested in seeing the station from above the ground and the connection to the than I am about the loop to be honest. Seeing the loop in service again is the bonus.

 

The R188's are not supposed to start service until May.

The case with 2141-2145 going back to the and 1746-1750 coming to the seems strange... I'm guessing they are now planning to run that R62A midday since they can turn the train around with no problem at PBP since both sets have full cabs. The thing is, I thought they were training with half cabs since the new 5-car sets that just got linked up on the are not supposed to get full cabs? This could mean they are actually planning to make those cars full-length cabs...

 

On a side note, The CI R160's are beginning their SMS from what I hear, there are two 4-car sets of R46 running on the as of now to fill in for the loss. This doesn't seem to make sense though, wouldn't it be easier to borrow R68's from concourse like what they did after the hurricane when the was full length? 

As long as that 2100 set isn't going to be broken up, not concerned about the swap. Though why Corona yard couldn't have just sent an all 1700 group as opposed to the 1700 and 2100s, i still don't understand. I mean the has run full trains of single unit cars, they could stand to displace the original fixed 5 car sets out first and keep the linked singles so the 6th car (single) can be attached to the end so they don't have to fold in a cab on a 1700s unit. Do they arrange the singles at Corona yard or somewhere else? Also isn't it a 'simple' process to make the cabs full width? I think once the has all the R62As, they will all be full width.

[LRG]

 

R62A?

Why does it matter what car type it was?

[Quill Depot]

Why does it matter what car type it was?

 

No, just wondering.

[Grand Concourse]

Still vandalism. Doesn't matter what train it was. 'This is why we can't have nice things.'

[Quill Depot]

I thought it was an R62A reference. Some people don't like them on the line.

[Abba]

I've noticed that they have been holding southbound trains at Franklin ave for connections lately more than I used to see.Is this something new?

[Guest MTA Bus]

I was waiting for the at Metropolitan Av, S/B. When the train came in it was flying into the station so fast that it passed the 4 car conductor bar. Everybody was running for that thing.

[Quill Depot]

What happens when a T/O goes past the 4, 6, 8 or 10 (corresonding to the length of the train that is)?

[Fresh Pond]

What happens when a T/O goes past the 4, 6, 8 or 10 (corresonding to the length of the train that is)?

The train isn't properly in the station so all the doors may or may not open to said platform