Why Bus Ridership is Declining

[Shortline Bus]

I still don't see how LRT (Shortline) OR BRT (Nexis) will boost bus ridership (on the non BRT routes)...... Neither one of you is elaborating on that...

 

I expect that type of a post out of Nexis, since he's more of an advocate of rail systems anyway...

 

....but Shortline knows about our buses & subways.... what he's doing right now is no different than the MTA, throwing wool over his eyes & ignoring the issue, in even bringing up LRT..... and I bet if he was still living in Brooklyn, he wouldn't be advocating for no LRT as hard as he has been over the past few... months... It's easy to sit up there upstate & recommend light rail down here, when you wouldn't have to be subjected to its disadvantages on a daily basis....

 

 

On the issue of improving realiblity on the not so busy bus routes that a tougher issue. Other some stopgap measures such as automatic ez-pass type signals that turns red to green lights for buses, allowing a right turn on red, may help a little.

 

With that sometimes in life you have to try new things. When I suggested light rail it was more designed for the heavy coordior routes i.e Hillside Ave, Fordham/Pelham Pwy, Hylan, Merrick Blvd/Rd., Northern Blvd, etc.

If there was an efficent light rail in NYC (on a few coordiors only citywide)

it would boast ridership and could splll over to increased ridership on local buses.

 

That my point on suggesting light rail for a few selected coordiors.

[B35 via Church]

On the issue of improving realiblity on the not so busy bus routes that a tougher issue. Other some stopgap measures such as automatic ez-pass type signals that turns red to green lights for buses, allowing a right turn on red, may help a little.

 

With that sometimes in life you have to try new things. When I suggested light rail it was more designed for the heavy coordior routes i.e Hillside Ave, Fordham/Pelham Pwy, Hylan, Merrick Blvd/Rd., Northern Blvd, etc.

If there was an efficent light rail in NYC (on a few coordiors only citywide)

it would boast ridership and could splll over to increased ridership on local buses.

 

That my point on suggesting light rail for a few selected coordiors.

 

Tryin new things... is that what you think this is about.... Well lemme fill you in..

 

LRT is more a solution for our (NYC) subways, than it is for our local buses.... that is what I think you're not quite grasping... Which is why I'm adamant w/ the fact that you even brought it up, in a thread that deals w/ bus ridership... It's like you're implying that ppl should give up on buses b/c they're are slow, there's nothin that can be done... so implement light rail b/c it's faster".... and I'm sittin here like, what the hell does that have to do w/ the tea in china....

 

that "tougher issue" you refer to, is what I'm tryna to get you to focus on more.... and what I wish the MTA stops exacerbating for its riders....

 

like I mentioned earlier, the higher ridership routes are gonna be around....whether you keep the current fleet of buses we have, to run on those routes with... or implementing a BRT system on them... or running LRT in cohesion w/ those higher ridership routes, to me, is all moot....

 

How many LRT's run on residential streets....

How many buses run on residential streets....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The MTA might not be able to reduce the fare, but it might be able to prevent a future fare hike by getting rid of some of the services.

 

As far as shifting the resources around goes, you are correct, to an extent. I don't see how an increase in X10 Sunday service could've been taken from any other route. The only other SI route that runs on Sundays is the X1.

 

Well that's evident, but you've argued cutting service to keep the fares low or lower. I still believe that savings in other areas should be examined before cutting service or eliminating routes entirely. Reducing a route would even be better than nothing at all. The overall impact of those cuts are felt in multiple ways from the neighbourhoods affected to the businesses that lose money as well to the passengers using those lines. You may argue that that isn't the case but it happens indirectly. If you have to alter your travel plans naturally you're not going to go the places that you used to frequent or if you do not as often.

 

Pulling a bus doesn't have to be from Sunday's service. You have to look at the whole schedule. I personally can see them taking the savings from the X27 and X28 weekend service and using that to fill voids in the X10 or pulling a bus from even an X10 run and putting that bus elsewhere.

[checkmatechamp13]

Well that's evident, but you've argued cutting service to keep the fares low or lower. I still believe that savings in other areas should be examined before cutting service or eliminating routes entirely. Reducing a route would even be better than nothing at all. The overall impact of those cuts are felt in multiple ways from the neighbourhoods affected to the businesses that lose money as well to the passengers using those lines. You may argue that that isn't the case but it happens indirectly. If you have to alter your travel plans naturally you're not going to go the places that you used to frequent or if you do not as often.

 

Pulling a bus doesn't have to be from Sunday's service. You have to look at the whole schedule. I personally can see them taking the savings from the X27 and X28 weekend service and using that to fill voids in the X10 or pulling a bus from even an X10 run and putting that bus elsewhere.

 

Bolded: That's my point.

 

I agree that savings should also be obtained from other areas, but I still think that running empty buses where it isn't needed is also a waste. The MTA saved $100 million from service reductions, but it saved $700 million from internal reductions. Should they have figured out ways to squeeze out an additional $100 million in internal savings? Yes, but you have to admit that having 7/8 of your budget filled by internal savings isn't that bad.

 

By the way, I think they actually did that with the X10 and X27/X28. Before June 2010, it ran every 45 minutes for most of the day. Now, I think it runs every 30 minutes for most of the day.

[MTARegional Bus]

Reason why it declining is because I can walk faster then a bus and to many bus stops that are closer to each other.

 

so this is less and less of a issue, today the B43 I rode (C40LF) had a wheelchair rider and it certainty didn't add five minutes to the trip.

 

 

That's the problem LF, Theres not alot of room in them, specially when people won't go upstairs in back upper lever if the bus.

[qjtransitmaster]

I think those lines are anemic. The X63s I see as I'm walking to my office on 5th are always empty, but express bus service on Staten Island, the Bronx and Brooklyn overall are okay and doing pretty good overall. The BMs could do better, but the X27/X28 are still holding strong and the X37/X38 will be back very soon. :cool:

 

Hence why I suggested killing off X63 in the first place in an earlier thread. Or combining it with an extended QM21. However I assume most riders wired up and started using the LIRR as its faster and just better. PPL had enough of the slow eventually the riders will use other services. queens expresses were too slow now the ppl are moving on (NOT ALL queens lines). I would not be surprised to see X64 bite the dust as the LIRR is near. QM3 I am shocked it even still runs I thought it was doing byebye in 2010 o well:cool: We will see what happens

[qjtransitmaster]

:cool:

Reason why it declining is because I can walk faster then a bus and to many bus stops that are closer to each other.

 

 

 

That's the problem LF, Theres not alot of room in them, specially when people won't go upstairs in back upper lever if the bus.

 

The thing is SPEED UP THE BUS OR LOSE YOUR RIDERSHIP TO FASTER MODES!!!!

[qjtransitmaster]

SBS is not Light Rail , but a half assed BRT. Light Rail could work in Queens , Brooklyn and Staten Island. You could run it down abandoned Freight ROW or Wide Boulevards.....it does attract that rider who not use a bus and drivers are more cautious around the LRV's then buses. I don't think you see that much of a NIMBY blockade against LRT , the problem will be $$$. But LRT system could bridge the many subway system gaps in the outer boroughs and link SI with NJ. More stations in the the outer boroughs along the MNRR/LIRR could also solve the Subway gap issues and boast Bus ridership.

 

One problem with this adding stops to LIRR and MNRR WILL PISS OFF MANY LIRR AND METRO-NORTH PPL THERE IS NO WAY THEY WILL GO FOR A SLOWER RIDE TO HELP LAZY CITY FOLK. However LRT/BRT can work like try aligning it above the parkways the BRT in phases a LRT can work on the I-278 corridor as ppl instead of using BQE will use LRT to bus to get to their destinations. abandoned freight ROW= excellent idea but buses in SI like S55/56 who have higher operating speeds than most other local buses can be saved by extending to elizbeth NJ there is a corridor that is underserved that alone will be the trip generator to breath life into these dead empty S55/56 lines. And eliminating the service to the correctional facility helps to reduce stigma associated with jail bus rtes. Welcome to NYC jersey boy:cool: No insult intended. Plus a slow train ride eventually destroys itself.

There is no way you can add extra stations in the outerboroughs to the LIRR/MNRR without starting a riot!!!! those LI folk simply will not stand for it!!!

 

The same applies to NYC buses eventually the slow speeds will kill certain bus lines it killed LIB.:cool:

 

 

Many of my NJ friends in monmouth county HATE the train I tell them yes the bus is faster but its not frequent. One was even going to cab it till I told him the train is not that bad. peace out :cool:

[aemoreira81]

Another reason may be that---except for the Bronx---the route network has never really been reconsidered with respect to today...and it really needs to be. The MTA bus network, by and large, is the same as it was in the 1960s.

 

On the NYCT side, the express buses may not be too much of a problem (as only to Staten Island do they run on weekends). On the MTA Bus side though, what is needed is a mayor who forces accountability by reducing the subsidy, as MTA Bus express service is overserved while the local routes---especially some of the former Green Lines and Triboro routes---are underserved.

 

Also, in Staten Island, the service may reflect the MTA's seflishness of wanting to serve destinations in New York City over connections in New Jersey, even if there is a ridership base that exists between the cities (such as service to/from Perth Amboy and Elizabeth). With the opening of Charleston Depot, that option needs to be reconsidered.

[Forest Glen]

Hence why I suggested killing off X63 in the first place in an earlier thread. Or combining it with an extended QM21. However I assume most riders wired up and started using the LIRR as its faster and just better. PPL had enough of the slow eventually the riders will use other services. queens expresses were too slow now the ppl are moving on (NOT ALL queens lines). I would not be surprised to see X64 bite the dust as the LIRR is near. QM3 I am shocked it even still runs I thought it was doing byebye in 2010 o well:cool: We will see what happens

 

no

 

Another reason may be that---except for the Bronx---the route network has never really been reconsidered with respect to today...and it really needs to be. The MTA bus network, by and large, is the same as it was in the 1960s.

 

On the NYCT side, the express buses may not be too much of a problem (as only to Staten Island do they run on weekends). On the MTA Bus side though, what is needed is a mayor who forces accountability by reducing the subsidy, as MTA Bus express service is overserved while the local routes---especially some of the former Green Lines and Triboro routes---are underserved.

 

It makes me sick to say this, but most MTA Bus express routes do not need offpeak or weekend service. The BM2, BxM7, BxM9, and possibly the BxM11 are the only exceptions. I even see some empty QM6's on weekends. On weekdays, I would have the QM5 operate via the LIE instead of turning to Union Turnpike via 188 Street. On weekends, it would operate via Union Turnpike and replace the QM6.

[Q43LTD]

Hence why I suggested killing off X63 in the first place in an earlier thread. Or combining it with an extended QM21. However I assume most riders wired up and started using the LIRR as its faster and just better. PPL had enough of the slow eventually the riders will use other services. queens expresses were too slow now the ppl are moving on (NOT ALL queens lines). I would not be surprised to see X64 bite the dust as the LIRR is near. QM3 I am shocked it even still runs I thought it was doing byebye in 2010 o well:cool: We will see what happens

There's no LIRR station in Cambria Heights. Not every express route duplicate the LIRR

[Shortline Bus]

no

 

 

 

It makes me sick to say this, but most MTA Bus express routes do not need offpeak or weekend service. The BM2, BxM7, BxM9, and possibly the BxM11 are the only exceptions. I even see some empty QM6's on weekends. On weekdays, I would have the QM5 operate via the LIE instead of turning to Union Turnpike via 188 Street. On weekends, it would operate via Union Turnpike and replace the QM6.

 

Forest Glen what you talking about? The BXm2 ridership on weekends is lower than the BXM3 BXM10 and '11. I would end Sunday BXM2 service since Riverdale Ave riders still have the BXM1 and transfer to a crosstown bus in East Midtown.

 

Keep full BXM3, '10 AND '11.:eek:

[Nexis4Jersey]

One problem with this adding stops to LIRR and MNRR WILL PISS OFF MANY LIRR AND METRO-NORTH PPL THERE IS NO WAY THEY WILL GO FOR A SLOWER RIDE TO HELP LAZY CITY FOLK. However LRT/BRT can work like try aligning it above the parkways the BRT in phases a LRT can work on the I-278 corridor as ppl instead of using BQE will use LRT to bus to get to their destinations. abandoned freight ROW= excellent idea but buses in SI like S55/56 who have higher operating speeds than most other local buses can be saved by extending to elizbeth NJ there is a corridor that is underserved that alone will be the trip generator to breath life into these dead empty S55/56 lines. And eliminating the service to the correctional facility helps to reduce stigma associated with jail bus rtes. Welcome to NYC jersey boy:cool: No insult intended. Plus a slow train ride eventually destroys itself.

There is no way you can add extra stations in the outerboroughs to the LIRR/MNRR without starting a riot!!!! those LI folk simply will not stand for it!!!

 

The same applies to NYC buses eventually the slow speeds will kill certain bus lines it killed LIB.:cool:

 

 

Many of my NJ friends in monmouth county HATE the train I tell them yes the bus is faster but its not frequent. One was even going to cab it till I told him the train is not that bad. peace out :cool:

 

Well more stops are planned for both systems , these stations won't be used except during peak hrs or limited off peak service. I don't see how adding stations would really slow the train down. LRT won't work on the I-278 , there is no place to put it. SI needs LRT to take pressure off the poorly designed roads and connect it with Jersey. I don't ppl care about a slow train , seeing how 60,000+ use the Morristown line. I Doubt many of your friends hate the train , considering theres only one line for now....the Bus won't be faster if Congestion gets any worse. Once the MOM network is completed Buses in Central Jersey will lose most of the Ridership.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Forest Glen what you talking about? The BXm2 ridership on weekends is lower than the BXM3 BXM10 and '11. I would end Sunday BXM2 service since Riverdale Ave riders still have the BXM1 and transfer to a crosstown bus in East Midtown.

 

Keep full BXM3, '10 AND '11.:eek:

 

 

Forest Glen what you talking about? The BXm2 ridership on weekends is lower than the BXM3 BXM10 and '11. I would end Sunday BXM2 service since Riverdale Ave riders still have the BXM1 and transfer to a crosstown bus in East Midtown.

 

Keep full BXM3, '10 AND '11.:eek:

 

He didn't say BXM2... He said BM2. Just shows that you want any opportunity to advocate for cutting the BXM2 weekend service even when no one is mentioning it.

 

You just won't leave Riverdale alone huh? :eek:

 

So big deal. They get a bit more express bus service, but if it weren't for those people with their tax dollars, this city would be in a lot worse shape overall. It's funny you know. The less fortunate have no problem wanting those with more to constantly subsidize them, but God forbid if the folks with a bit more cash get any extra perks. :eek: Let's tax those with more to death, but give them nothing in return.

 

no

 

 

 

It makes me sick to say this, but most MTA Bus express routes do not need offpeak or weekend service. The BM2, BxM7, BxM9, and possibly the BxM11 are the only exceptions. I even see some empty QM6's on weekends. On weekdays, I would have the QM5 operate via the LIE instead of turning to Union Turnpike via 188 Street. On weekends, it would operate via Union Turnpike and replace the QM6.

 

 

It should make you sick especially since you know the impact that these express buses have on the communities that they serve. Give a viable alternative that doesn't involve a thousand transfers and that is equal to what express bus riders have now and perhaps I'd accept it, but we pay a premium fare for our services. The least they can do is provide us with some sort of service. Right now they're running a lot of these routes once an hour and no one is complaining. I have no problem with it either. The buses generally come as scheduled and run a bit later so as to not miss anyone and that's perfectly fine.

 

 

Cutting express bus service in these areas that have few to no alternatives would be sending the message that those people don't matter and that is completely wrong.

 

Another reason may be that---except for the Bronx---the route network has never really been reconsidered with respect to today...and it really needs to be. The MTA bus network, by and large, is the same as it was in the 1960s.

 

On the NYCT side, the express buses may not be too much of a problem (as only to Staten Island do they run on weekends). On the MTA Bus side though, what is needed is a mayor who forces accountability by reducing the subsidy, as MTA Bus express service is overserved while the local routes---especially some of the former Green Lines and Triboro routes---are underserved.

 

Also, in Staten Island, the service may reflect the MTA's seflishness of wanting to serve destinations in New York City over connections in New Jersey, even if there is a ridership base that exists between the cities (such as service to/from Perth Amboy and Elizabeth). With the opening of Charleston Depot, that option needs to be reconsidered.

 

I can agree with you to a point, but I disagree in lowering the subsidy for Bus express service. They are running a bare bones schedule as it is and anything less than that could put the entire company at risk, since many of the Bus lines are express buses. You'd have B/Os out of work, communities with no real quick alternative and an economic mess in the long run. Less transportation to most areas in a place like NYC usually means less people traveling, which means less business for stores and such. If anything increase the subsidy and take monies to improve local bus service in areas that need it where Bus local buses run and encourage more people to use mass transit. Crack down on fare beating and make buses safer, cleaner and more comfortable so that more people would be willing to use mass transit. No one seems to talk about it, but there is a stigma associated with using local buses in general and those who hop in the cars do so because they see buses are unreliable, dirty, and unsafe, thus leading to more traffic also in addition to the fact that there are fewer and fewer transit options, so you are pushing more and more people into their cars by providing unreliable service.

[Forest Glen]

I'm the biggest express bus supporter. However, empty express buses are bad PR. I cringe everytime I see a BM4 with 10 people on it. Express bus haters will use that as an example of why express buses are wasteful. I see empty QM4's even during rush hour. There are certain untouchables such as Hylan Blvd, Coop City, and Glen Oaks/Union Turnpike. Those areas will always have 7 day a week express bus service. Other than that, no express bus route is safe. I'm pretty sure that during the next service cut, the X64 is gone. The QM21 had its service reduced. It runs every half hour instead of every 15 minutes. X63 ridership is also going in the wrong direction. I love the MCI's, not having to enter rat-infested Jamaica Center, and cruising on the highway, but people simply don't have jobs or the money to spend on express buses. Maybe if the economy improves, express bus ridership will recover.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm the biggest express bus supporter. However, empty express buses are bad PR. I cringe everytime I see a BM4 with 10 people on it. Express bus haters will use that as an example of why express buses are wasteful. I see empty QM4's even during rush hour. There are certain untouchables such as Hylan Blvd, Coop City, and Glen Oaks/Union Turnpike. Those areas will always have 7 day a week express bus service. Other than that, no express bus route is safe. I'm pretty sure that during the next service cut, the X64 is gone. The QM21 had its service reduced. It runs every half hour instead of every 15 minutes. X63 ridership is also going in the wrong direction. I love the MCI's, not having to enter rat-infested Jamaica Center, and cruising on the highway, but people simply don't have jobs or the money to spend on express buses. Maybe if the economy improves, express bus ridership will recover.

 

 

And the thing is having a strong transportation system in place is vital to the survival of these communities and bringing back jobs. When employers start to hire again, there will be no transportation to get them there, so we have to keep this in mind. You know how the works. Once it is gone, they are not quick to bring back dead routes and these things destroy the viability of communities in the long run. It is very interesting that Long Island for example is finally breaking down after years of refusing to build any sort of apartments or anything near the LIRR that was within walking distance because they understand that taking more cars off of the road, while at the same time drawing in new young folks that they probably wouldn't otherwise be able to get helps their bottom line. You have a new tax base of people and these people don't have to clog up the streets either. Those taxes help to hire more cops, more fireman, and provide good schools for Long Islanders along with an providing economic boost for businesses in the area.

 

I would suspect that these will be condos or high end apartments though so as to keep the character of the areas in tact, especially since these people still have to have a decent income to be able to afford the LIRR.

[checkmatechamp13]

I'm the biggest express bus supporter. However, empty express buses are bad PR. I cringe everytime I see a BM4 with 10 people on it. Express bus haters will use that as an example of why express buses are wasteful. I see empty QM4's even during rush hour. There are certain untouchables such as Hylan Blvd, Coop City, and Glen Oaks/Union Turnpike. Those areas will always have 7 day a week express bus service. Other than that, no express bus route is safe. I'm pretty sure that during the next service cut, the X64 is gone. The QM21 had its service reduced. It runs every half hour instead of every 15 minutes. X63 ridership is also going in the wrong direction. I love the MCI's, not having to enter rat-infested Jamaica Center, and cruising on the highway, but people simply don't have jobs or the money to spend on express buses. Maybe if the economy improves, express bus ridership will recover.

 

I hate to burst your bubble, but I think the honor of biggest express bus supporter goes to Via Garibaldi.

 

My position has and always will be that a service must have the ridership to justify it, whether it is express or local. Believe me, I think it would be great of the X63 had every seat filled and ran every 10 minutes on each branch, but as of now, I'm sorry, but it is in real danger of being eliminated, as are other routes with similar ridership.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I hate to burst your bubble, but I think the honor of biggest express bus supporter goes to Via Garibaldi.

My position has and always will be that a service must have the ridership to justify it, whether it is express or local. Believe me, I think it would be great of the X63 had every seat filled and ran every 10 minutes on each branch, but as of now, I'm sorry, but it is in real danger of being eliminated, as are other routes with similar ridership.

 

Yeah, I was about to correct him about that... lol

 

What is starting to concern me is this whole push to cut cut cut in general, be it express or local. People are pushing for it with little to no disregard for the "alternatives" in place and that is a very troublesome thing in a place like NYC where the vast majority of folks depend on transportation. I blame part of this on the mayor as well. He's been extremely quiet about these cuts overall. I even wrote to him expressing my outrage before the cuts took place and his office replied with some fluff BS as I expected, but he knows very well what these cuts do to communities and that's why he was so gung-ho originally about pushing mass transit. Once he's out of office, we need a mayor who is going to dedicate himself back to advocating more for transportation in this city. He has here and there, but still not enough, especially with his touting tourism non stop.

[Shortline Bus]

He didn't say BXM2... He said BM2. Just shows that you want any opportunity to advocate for cutting the BXM2 weekend service even when no one is mentioning it.

 

You just won't leave Riverdale alone huh? :eek:

 

So big deal. They get a bit more express bus service, but if it weren't for those people with their tax dollars, this city would be in a lot worse shape overall. It's funny you know. The less fortunate have no problem wanting those with more to constantly subsidize them, but God forbid if the folks with a bit more cash get any extra perks. :eek: Let's tax those with more to death, but give them nothing in return.

 

 

 

 

It should make you sick especially since you know the impact that these express buses have on the communities that they serve. Give a viable alternative that doesn't involve a thousand transfers and that is equal to what express bus riders have now and perhaps I'd accept it, but we pay a premium fare for our services.

Cutting express bus service in these areas that have few to no alternatives would be sending the message that those people don't matter and that is completely wrong.

 

 

 

My issue Garbaldi is that unlike others areas of the outboros is that riders on the BXM2 does have alternatives. One is Metro North to/from Grand Central. Second is the BXM1 and third is taking the (BX7) to 168th/Broadway and transfering to the (M2) (M3) (M4) and (M5) to get to Midtown. I did also propose to be fair that Sunday BXM2 service be canned. Ditto for the BXM6 non-rush hours and be replaced in Parkchester by re-routed BXM10 service.

 

That my point. I agree 100% with Checkmate you don't run an express bus no one is using. That a waste of monies that could be used on other bus line on (NYCT) or Bus that needs it.

[Forest Glen]

I hate to burst your bubble, but I think the honor of biggest express bus supporter goes to Via Garibaldi.

 

My position has and always will be that a service must have the ridership to justify it, whether it is express or local. Believe me, I think it would be great of the X63 had every seat filled and ran every 10 minutes on each branch, but as of now, I'm sorry, but it is in real danger of being eliminated, as are other routes with similar ridership.

 

I'm not sure if you meant to type X64, but while X63 ridership has declined in the past 5 years, it's not at the point where it's facing elimination. On the other hand, the X64 probably has the lowest ridership out of all of the remaining express bus routes.

[BJC]

Maybe not. In San Diego which started light rail 30 years ago and LA restarted it 20 years ago, bus ridership in those cities are now at *record levels.* Maybe a big factor also is the gas prices/traffic.

 

Thus if done right, light rail could increase bus ridership even in NYC IMO.

 

That's San Diego and this is NYC,and who knows LR could be worst than NYC subway and buses.

[Nexis4Jersey]

That's San Diego and this is NYC,and who knows LR could be worst than NYC subway and buses.

 

Boston

Calgary

Toronto

Edmonton

San Fransisco

 

All have LRT and all have a dense core or dense corridors like NYC. Saying LRT can't work in NYC is foolish , LRT can handle up 300,000. Its cheaper and can hold 3x a bus in some cases. I don't think it will be worse then buses , it will be better then buses , but below Subways. It will be more Reliable then buses since its on a track and hopefully traffic separated. It could be just me , but it seems New Yorkers are afraid of changing things and that will greatly affect your city in the future.

[Q43LTD]

Light rail should never come to NYC. What's good for some cities, isn't good for all cities

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Boston

Calgary

Toronto

Edmonton

San Fransisco

 

All have LRT and all have a dense core or dense corridors like NYC. Saying LRT can't work in NYC is foolish , LRT can handle up 300,000. Its cheaper and can hold 3x a bus in some cases. I don't think it will be worse then buses , it will be better then buses , but below Subways. It will be more Reliable then buses since its on a track and hopefully traffic separated. It could be just me , but it seems New Yorkers are afraid of changing things and that will greatly affect your city in the future.

 

It has nothing to do with being afraid. Where exactly do you put a light rail when there is tons of congestion as it is???????????? :confused: Also, where does the money come from to pay a massive project like this?

[FamousNYLover]

I remember when I was taking 126th St's M60 trip when there was had problem in Astoria, all flashmob was pushing into M60s, even thought it crowded and some folks farebeat through rear doors. This was during AM Rush Hour on my way to SBS.