Stranded straphangers begin drive to bring back bus service to Queens

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Even with rising costs, at least it can delay another fare hike.

 

And basically none of the express buses would leave people "stranded" if they were eliminated. The trip may be a little longer and less comfortable, but they would still have another option (and considering that a lot of these routes run every 60 minutes, the trip time would probably be faster).

 

The express buses in areas that have very few other options will naturally survive, as people already use them.

 

For example, my mother had to go to Queens College twice. The first time, the QM4 flew by her (I don't know why, unless he thought she was waiting for a different bus), so she took the to the Q64. Going back, after waiting over an hour for the QM4, she just took the Q64 to the subway, even though it cost her an extra $2.25.

 

And you're so sure of this because??? You do realize that service isn't the only factor that the has to consider when trying to make up its budget right??

 

Also, what is your definition of a "little longer"??? What works for you doesn't work for everyone, and if people are willing to pay more for a comfortable and quicker ride then let it be. You seem to think that it's solely the express buses that are making the fares increase and that couldn't be any further from the truth.

 

As for your mother, he blew by her because he assumed she was waiting for the local bus. Express bus B/Os generally can tell the express bus riders and the local riders. What I mean by that is when the express bus comes, if you're at a stop where local buses stop, you had better make a signal or the B/O may blow right by. However, if you're a regular then the B/O will know to stop. Also they can usually tell by the way in which some folks dress. For example a chick with an expensive handbag or that's dressed well is clearly not going to take a local bus except for maybe in Manhattan along the Madison/5th Avenue corridor.

 

In my case, I never have to make a signal for the express buses on Staten Island because they know that I'm getting on. However for the BM buses, if I'm along Ocean Ave and say Avenue X where the B49 stops at I will hold my hand out and motion because they will not stop otherwise unless they know that I'm a regular. For example, sometimes I'll get the same B/O going to and from Sheepshead Bay every Saturday that I go there, so he'll know exactly where to let me off at and will bypass other stops so as to get me there quicker. :cool:

 

Of course I don't hold my hand out when waiting at a stop where only the express bus stops because it's obvious that I can't be waiting for anything else. The thing I do get a lot though is cab drivers asking me if I need a cab. Sometimes I'll ignore them like yesterday. This Middle Eastern guy kept asking me if I needed a cab even though I never once held out my hand for one. I had to sit back and think why I get some many cabs stopping for me when I'm not even trying to hail one, but then I think about and say #1 I'm dressed rather well (Italian shoes, straight leg pants and such) and I've got either a Whole Foods bag and or my laptop bag with me with my Italian made shades on, so I look like the type that would use cabs a lot, which in reality I do. lol

 

Also, you are wrong about the trip being faster on the local bus. It can be much faster on the express bus even on 60 minute intervals. The key is to know how to time the buses so that you're not waiting too long. The BM3 for example, I know they never come early, so I will give myself 5-10 minutes of arrival time before the bus is due so the most I may wait is 15 - 20 minutes. Even so, he makes up the time anyway. It would take me at least 45 minutes on the subway just to get Downtown and it takes me about that to get to 23rd and Park, not to mention that it puts me much closer to where I'm going than the subway does, so you can't assume that what works for one person is best for everyone because that's not the case.

[qjtransitmaster]

Blah blah blah you're still talking hot air. Your plans are more bullshit than the fantasy threads. Me arrogant......I think you're confusing me for yourself buddy. You have no idea on what you are talking about....I didn't know you brain to think b/c all you say is pure garbage. You sound like a true jackass.....why don't you go play in traffic and comeback when you with logical common sense. Have a nice day!

 

get over urself I have evidence to back up the NJT claims. Plus I threw out parts that were garbage All my ideas aren't garbage till you hear them. I haven't mentioned a single plan or part so as long as ur not in the know you will always treat me like shit but soon I will be the one who wins. The jackass is the one who constantly screams down on others they dont know drop ur hate and calm down. It sounds weak. Besides the qualifications and work involved may not even be worth it. So back off and come to a truce. I will return with lots of sense for one If I knew everything about NJ then I wont ask questions about certain rtes. Cause If I didn't learn certain rtes then I would look stupid trying to modify it which I would like to avoid. Now the more you prejudge the harder you fail. Hence If I propose a modification without knowing the rte then I look stupid. The same applies to you you knockdown the unknown as garbage but if unknown is proven not to be then you will look just as stupid as I would if I were to example propose: 190 extends to absorb a former 967 via I80 One problem with this idea the 197 line takes 30 mins to enter a similar area the 190 is already 1 hour long. And also main street traffic is killer. The 190 due to its shape can't extend at all. So to avoid the humiliation I used 190 and gathered data proving that an extension isn't possible. But other NJT rtes aren't as restrictive in nature as 190. I have an image with 320 but I need data to see what can and can't be done hence why I have a backup plan. Hence this learning of the system was what made me throw out my former NJT ideas due to figuring things out. I have a backup with all. I take frequent rtes turn em to trunks then let them absorb rtes in other regions while creating new express service between regions. I was met with very little resistance at the NJT meeting. Actually some thought I was making sense with one part I suggested in central NJ. I will mention it later.

 

Now calm down and stop being so HARSH its not so serious lets keep it clean. Cause ur latest posts look like personal attacks really. Now instead of attacking try using debate style posts I refuse to bother with the ur dumb idiot argument it gets old

[via White Plains Road]

get over urself I have evidence to back up the NJT claims. Plus I threw out parts that were garbage All my ideas aren't garbage till you hear them. I haven't mentioned a single plan or part so as long as ur not in the know you will always treat me like shit but soon I will be the one who wins. The jackass is the one who constantly screams down on others they dont know drop ur hate and calm down. It sounds weak. Besides the qualifications and work involved may not even be worth it. So back off and come to a truce. I will return with lots of sense for one If I knew everything about NJ then I wont ask questions about certain rtes. Cause If I didn't learn certain rtes then I would look stupid trying to modify it which I would like to avoid. Now the more you prejudge the harder you fail. Hence If I propose a modification without knowing the rte then I look stupid. The same applies to you you knockdown the unknown as garbage but if unknown is proven not to be then you will look just as stupid as I would if I were to example propose: 190 extends to absorb a former 967 via I80 One problem with this idea the 197 line takes 30 mins to enter a similar area the 190 is already 1 hour long. And also main street traffic is killer. The 190 due to its shape can't extend at all. So to avoid the humiliation I used 190 and gathered data proving that an extension isn't possible. But other NJT rtes aren't as restrictive in nature as 190. I have an image with 320 but I need data to see what can and can't be done hence why I have a backup plan. Hence this learning of the system was what made me throw out my former NJT ideas due to figuring things out. I have a backup with all. I take frequent rtes turn em to trunks then let them absorb rtes in other regions while creating new express service between regions. I was met with very little resistance at the NJT meeting. Actually some thought I was making sense with one part I suggested in central NJ. I will mention it later.

 

Now calm down and stop being so HARSH its not so serious lets keep it clean. Cause ur latest posts look like personal attacks really. Now instead of attacking try using debate style posts I refuse to bother with the ur dumb idiot argument it gets old

 

*Yawn* I'm sorry you said something intelligent. You're the dumb idiot you ******* moronic jackass....your comeback are whack as a Channel 7 tv show. Go sit ya ass down somewhere!

[qjtransitmaster]

And you're so sure of this because??? You do realize that service isn't the only factor that the has to consider when trying to make up its budget right??

 

Also, what is your definition of a "little longer"??? What works for you doesn't work for everyone, and if people are willing to pay more for a comfortable and quicker ride then let it be. You seem to think that it's solely the express buses that are making the fares increase and that couldn't be any further from the truth.

 

As for your mother, he blew by her because he assumed she was waiting for the local bus. Express bus B/Os generally can tell the express bus riders and the local riders. What I mean by that is when the express bus comes, if you're at a stop where local buses stop, you had better make a signal or the B/O may blow right by. However, if you're a regular then the B/O will know to stop. Also they can usually tell by the way in which some folks dress. For example a chick with an expensive handbag or that's dressed well is clearly not going to take a local bus except for maybe in Manhattan along the Madison/5th Avenue corridor.

 

In my case, I never have to make a signal for the express buses on Staten Island because they know that I'm getting on. However for the BM buses, if I'm along Ocean Ave and say Avenue X where the B49 stops at I will hold my hand out and motion because they will not stop otherwise unless they know that I'm a regular. For example, sometimes I'll get the same B/O going to and from Sheepshead Bay every Saturday that I go there, so he'll know exactly where to let me off at and will bypass other stops so as to get me there quicker. :cool: Of course I don't hold my hand out when waiting at a stop where only the express bus stops because it's obvious that I can't be waiting for anything else. The thing I do get a lot though is cab drivers asking me if I need a cab. Sometimes I'll ignore then like yesterday. This Middle Eastern guy kept asking me if I needed a cab. I had to sit back and think why I get some many cabs stopping for me when I'm not even trying to hail one, but then I think about and say #1 I'm dressed rather well (Italian shoes, straight leg pants and such) and I've got either a Whole Foods bag and or my laptop bag with me so I look like the type that would use cabs a lot, which in reality I do. lol

 

Also, you are wrong about the trip being faster on the local bus. It can be much faster on the express bus even on 60 minute intervals. The key is to know how to time the buses so that you're not waiting too long. The BM3 for example, I know they never come early, so I will give myself 5-10 minutes of arrival time before the bus is due so the most I may wait is 15 - 20 minutes. Even so, he makes up the time anyway. It would take me at least 45 minutes on the subway just to get Downtown and it takes me about that to get to 23rd and Park, not to mention that it puts me much closer to where I'm going than the subway does, so you can't assume that what works for one person is best for everyone because that's not the case.

 

STOP via 8 its obvious that you won this argument!!! You made ur case now stop and do the victory pose!!! Checkmate is a numbers guy as a result he will always use numbers rather than convenience. I tried the numbers thing with my earlier NJT plans and had to throw em out after finding out numbers arent everything speed and connectivity are. One who is always on numbers won't see the full value of exprress buses in their NYC form. In a zone based system like NJT and SEPTA BOTH of ur arguments will be valid and will agree rather than dissagree. The victor is via 8 you can now say checkmate:cool:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

*Yawn* I'm sorry you said something intelligent. You're the dumb idiot you ******* moronic jackass....your comeback are whack as a Channel 7 tv show. Go sit ya ass down somewhere!

 

Now now... He's talking about "rtes"... Serious stuff. lol I wonder if he actually knows how to spell the word correctly. B)

 

STOP via 8 its obvious that you won this argument!!! You made ur case now stop and do the victory pose!!! Checkmate is a numbers guy as a result he will always use numbers rather than convenience. I tried the numbers thing with my earlier NJT plans and had to throw em out after finding out numbers arent everything speed and connectivity are. One who is always on numbers won't see the full value of exprress buses in their NYC form. In a zone based system like NJT and SEPTA BOTH of ur arguments will be valid and will agree rather than dissagree. The victor is via 8 you can now say checkmate:cool:

 

Well now, thanks for your approval.

[via White Plains Road]

Now now... He's talking about "rtes"... Serious stuff. lol I wonder if he actually knows how to spell the word correctly. B)

 

He better buy an updated Webster dictionary and study the damn thing:tup:

[qjtransitmaster]

*Yawn* I'm sorry you said something intelligent. You're the dumb idiot you ******* moronic jackass....your comeback are whack as a Channel 7 tv show. Go sit ya ass down somewhere!

 

CALM DOWN buddy I am not trying to make a comeback. I am simply trying to keep the hate to a minimum chill out. I am simply looking for peace now plz calm down you look like you are already armed for war.

[IRT Bronx Express]

After reading qjt's wall of text post, I just yawned.

[qjtransitmaster]

Now now... He's talking about "rtes"... Serious stuff. lol

 

Ur right I am starting to leak out more about myself.

 

Well now, thanks for your approval.

ya earned it by simply making sense and not going into a senseless rampage of personal attacks. now if only the road to white plains can get calmed a bit. I dont like personal war simply keeping it to just the lines.

 

 

Cause I never fully discussed the structure of rtes of specifics I was never able to make a clear argument. I was only stating examples rather than real world implementation. Looks like you have figured it out by now garinaldi what I am about. You know I have no grudge I am like a robot without hate. I approve of all valid points hence why I saw ur argument was a win. Thats why I didn't get involved.

[qjtransitmaster]

After reading qjt's wall of text post, I just yawned.

 

you hate dont ya but yet I have no hate now lets get back to transit and away from the personal attacks. I already mentioned my lack of grudges. Now drop your grudge and move on learn to calm like some others shortline and B35 are good examples.

[checkmatechamp13]

And you're so sure of this because??? You do realize that service isn't the only factor that the has to consider when trying to make up its budget right??

 

Also, what is your definition of a "little longer"??? What works for you doesn't work for everyone, and if people are willing to pay more for a comfortable and quicker ride then let it be. You seem to think that it's solely the express buses that are making the fares increase and that couldn't be any further from the truth.

 

As for your mother, he blew by her because he assumed she was waiting for the local bus. Express bus B/Os generally can tell the express bus riders and the local riders. What I mean by that is when the express bus comes, if you're at a stop where local buses stop, you had better make a signal or the B/O may blow right by. However, if you're a regular then the B/O will know to stop. Also they can usually tell by the way in which some folks dress. For example a chick with an expensive handbag or that's dressed well is clearly not going to take a local bus except for maybe in Manhattan along the Madison/5th Avenue corridor.

 

In my case, I never have to make a signal for the express buses on Staten Island because they know that I'm getting on. However for the BM buses, if I'm along Ocean Ave and say Avenue X where the B49 stops at I will hold my hand out and motion because they will not stop otherwise unless they know that I'm a regular. For example, sometimes I'll get the same B/O going to and from Sheepshead Bay every Saturday that I go there, so he'll know exactly where to let me off at and will bypass other stops so as to get me there quicker. :cool:

 

Of course I don't hold my hand out when waiting at a stop where only the express bus stops because it's obvious that I can't be waiting for anything else. The thing I do get a lot though is cab drivers asking me if I need a cab. Sometimes I'll ignore them like yesterday. This Middle Eastern guy kept asking me if I needed a cab even though I never once held out my hand for one. I had to sit back and think why I get some many cabs stopping for me when I'm not even trying to hail one, but then I think about and say #1 I'm dressed rather well (Italian shoes, straight leg pants and such) and I've got either a Whole Foods bag and or my laptop bag with me with my Italian made shades on, so I look like the type that would use cabs a lot, which in reality I do. lol

 

Also, you are wrong about the trip being faster on the local bus. It can be much faster on the express bus even on 60 minute intervals. The key is to know how to time the buses so that you're not waiting too long. The BM3 for example, I know they never come early, so I will give myself 5-10 minutes of arrival time before the bus is due so the most I may wait is 15 - 20 minutes. Even so, he makes up the time anyway. It would take me at least 45 minutes on the subway just to get Downtown and it takes me about that to get to 23rd and Park, not to mention that it puts me much closer to where I'm going than the subway does, so you can't assume that what works for one person is best for everyone because that's not the case.

 

1) I know service isn't the only factor, but as a transportation provider, I would think that a very large portion of its budget is spent on running the forms of transportation.

 

2) Yeah, but they shouldn't be getting a whole bus to themselves for $5.50.

 

3) I don't know what the situation was with the bus not stopping. She was dressed fairly well, but I don't know if she waved it down or what happened in that case. You never know: Maybe the driver assumed that because she was Hispanic she wasn't taking the express bus.

 

4) I guess you would wave down the bus if there were multiple express buses at that same stop, though.

 

5) That's great if it works for one person, but when a bus is consistantly carry very few passengers, that is wasting taxpayer money and riders' fares. Of course, it isn't the fault of the people who do ride that route, but what can you do?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) I know service isn't the only factor, but as a transportation provider, I would think that a very large portion of its budget is spent on running the forms of transportation.

 

2) Yeah, but they shouldn't be getting a whole bus to themselves for $5.50.

 

3) I don't know what the situation was with the bus not stopping. She was dressed fairly well, but I don't know if she waved it down or what happened in that case. You never know: Maybe the driver assumed that because she was Hispanic she wasn't taking the express bus.

 

4) I guess you would wave down the bus if there were multiple express buses at that same stop, though.

 

5) That's great if it works for one person, but when a bus is consistantly carry very few passengers, that is wasting taxpayer money and riders' fares. Of course, it isn't the fault of the people who do ride that route, but what can you do?

 

Responses below:

 

1) Perhaps you should do a study and see where they spend their money at. I say that especially because you live by stats and numbers. Maybe BrooklynBus could give you some insight. Speaking of stats, I wonder what you think about workers getting free Metrocards? I certainly had one both summers that I worked with the .

 

2) My X30 was empty today coming home, but I suspect that was because of the downpour that happened before that one arrived. Apparently the earlier X30 was pretty late, as we caught up to it. However, I would call for it to be eliminated because it was empty today.

 

3) They're more likely to assume that you're not getting on than vice versa and yes, how you're dressed or look I'm sure they consider as well. Sometimes folks will get on and the entire bus including myself will give a look like WTF is this person doing getting on. They look like some thug or something from the projects. They're usually dressed or act in a manner that normal express bus riders wouldn't display and it's clear that they're not regulars.

 

There's a certain level of classiness that most express bus riders have in addition to being generally affluent. I've been riding the express bus for almost a good 6 years now and even I have been bypassed a good 5 times or so, which actually isn't that bad, because out of the five times the bus has stopped after bypassing the stop to let me on three times. However I've seen it happen to others while on the express bus far often. Sometimes the person just doesn't make any indication that they want the express bus. For example, when I see the express bus coming, I will usually look in that direction and slowly move towards it if necessary. Of course this isn't necessary when I get my regular B/Os, as they are used to picking up the same folks everyday more or less and will even stop for me if they see me walking down the street towards the stop and they're running early. However, usually what happens is that the person just sort of expects the bus to stop and thinks that the B/O will know that the person wants the bus, even though they make no moves towards it.

 

Three times that I was bypassed was because the B/O either wasn't paying attention (i.e. looking at skirts), or didn't see me because of the damn tourists trying to hail a cab, or just simply was daydreaming and wasn't aware that there was a stop. The other two times were my fault. I was walking to the X10 stop, but wasn't quite there yet and the B/O sort of stopped but assumed that no one was getting on and I wasn't close enough for him to figure out that I was indeed getting on so he drove right by and kept going. I was pissed nevertheless. The other time I was busy BSing and didn't know that the X14 was racing down Forest Avenue and Manor Rd.

 

I usually just throw my hands up as if to say "WTF you don't stop here? Do I not exist?" and if they see me they'll stop and I'll get on and give a dirty look. lol

 

4) Back when we had the X13 and X14 and X16, I would certainly have to move lively because often times the X13 and X14 would come together.

 

5) For starters, you can re-route the bus so as to shorten the route thus saving money that way. P.S. I was proud to see 3 QM7s in about a 10-15 minute span along Water St and then another on the FDR as I was on the X14. They were pretty full too. :cool:

[qjtransitmaster]

Responses below:

 

1) Perhaps you should do a study and see where they spend their money at. I say that especially because you live by stats and numbers. Maybe BrooklynBus could give you some insight. Speaking of stats, I wonder what you think about workers getting free Metrocards? I certainly had one both summers that I worked with the .

 

2) My X30 was empty today coming home, but I suspect that was because of the downpour that happened before that one arrived. Apparently the earlier X30 was pretty late, as we caught up to it. However, I would call for it to be eliminated because it was empty today.

 

3) They're more likely to assume that you're not getting on than vice versa and yes, how you're dressed or look I'm sure they consider as well. Sometimes folks will get on and the entire bus including myself will give a look like WTF is this person doing getting on. They look like some thug or something from the projects. They're usually dressed or act in a manner that normal express bus riders wouldn't display and it's clear that they're not regulars.

 

There's a certain level of classiness that most express bus riders have in addition to being generally affluent. I've been riding the express bus for almost a good 6 years now and even I have been bypassed a good 5 times or so, which actually isn't that bad, because out of the five times the bus has stopped after bypassing the stop to let me on three times. However I've seen it happen to others while on the express bus far often. Sometimes the person just doesn't make any indication that they want the express bus. For example, when I see the express bus coming, I will usually look in that direction and slowly move towards it if necessary. Of course this isn't necessary when I get my regular B/Os, as they are used to picking up the same folks everyday more or less and will even stop for me if they see me walking down the street towards the stop and they're running early. However, usually what happens is that the person just sort of expects the bus to stop and thinks that the B/O will know that the person wants the bus, even though they make no moves towards it.

 

Three times that I was bypassed was because the B/O either wasn't paying attention (i.e. looking at skirts), or didn't see me because of the damn tourists trying to hail a cab, or just simply was daydreaming and wasn't aware that there was a stop. The other two times were my fault. I was walking to the X10 stop, but wasn't quite there yet and the B/O sort of stopped but assumed that no one was getting on and I wasn't close enough for him to figure out that I was indeed getting on so he drove right by and kept going. I was pissed nevertheless. The other time I was busy BSing and didn't know that the X14 was racing down Forest Avenue and Manor Rd.

 

I usually just throw my hands up as if to say "WTF you don't stop here? Do I not exist?" and if they see me they'll stop and I'll get on and give a dirty look. lol

 

4) Back when we had the X13 and X14 and X16, I would certainly have to move lively because often times the X13 and X14 would come together.

 

5) For starters, you can re-route the bus so as to shorten the route thus saving money that way. P.S. I was proud to see 3 QM7s in about a 10-15 minute span along Water St and then another on the FDR as I was on the X14. They were pretty full too. :cool:

I wave em down just in case. To make sure.

[Forest Glen]

The QM21 terminates right behind the Locust Manor Station on the LIRR......

 

To be fair, QM21 ridership isn't that high. It was much higher when the economy was better. Service was cut back recently.

 

The only realistic solution I can see is:

 

1) The express bus routes serving the neighborhoods formerly served by the Q79 cost a lot to run per passenger (i.e. they make a massive loss).

2) The Q79 would cost a lot to run per passenger (i.e. it would make a loss, but not a massive one, as it didn't require very many buses).

3) If the neighborhoods prefer, sufficient vehicles should be cut from the express bus services serving them to enable the Q79 to be restored at no extra cost to the MTA.

4) This could potentially be achieved by diverting the some early morning runs of express buses to terminate at Flushing Main Street subway station, then return to the outer terminals in time to operate rush hour buses to Manhattan (this would significantly reduce the PVR, whilst only affecting shoulder-peak commuters).

5) As with any proposal that economically adds up, it's generally not a good idea to be the one proposing it: people *will* complain about any change. This is generally why no change gets proposed if it can be helped.

 

no

 

Even with rising costs, at least it can delay another fare hike.

 

And basically none of the express buses would leave people "stranded" if they were eliminated. The trip may be a little longer and less comfortable, but they would still have another option (and considering that a lot of these routes run every 60 minutes, the trip time would probably be faster).

 

 

wrong

 

For the record, unless there are timers or speed limits along certain stretches, most subway trains hover around 30 MPH and still have to stop. The MCI coaches are either speed limited or the would be on bus operators like dirt on Chambers Street if they tried anything bold, else they pretty much go about 30-45 MPH on the expressways.

 

If we had a subway system where people could get seats on trains after a long day at work, stations didn't smell like piss, people could take naps without being woken up by Mariachi bands, trains didn't make a defeaning screech when they entered a station, homeless men didn't stink up an entire car, and people didn't get into fights over seats then you wouldn't need express buses. Until then, express bus riders will pay for the privilege of not having to ride a 3rd world subway system.

[checkmatechamp13]

To be fair, QM21 ridership isn't that high. It was much higher when the economy was better. Service was cut back recently.

 

 

 

no

 

 

 

wrong

 

 

 

If we had a subway system where people could get seats on trains after a long day at work, stations didn't smell like piss, people could take naps without being woken up by Mariachi bands, trains didn't make a defeaning screech when they entered a station, homeless men didn't stink up an entire car, and people didn't get into fights over seats then you wouldn't need express buses. Until then, express bus riders will pay for the privilege of not having to ride a 3rd world subway system.

 

You have got to f*cking stop with those one-word responses. Would it kill you to explain your logic with a response other than "wrong" or "no"??????

 

You have this crazy mentality that everybody is out to eliminate all express buses. If a bus is practically empty and there are alternatives around, why should that bus stay? Did I ever say that all express routes are like that?? No, I just said some are and those routes should be eliminated.

[qjtransitmaster]

:cool:

You have got to f*cking stop with those one-word responses. Would it kill you to explain your logic with a response other than "wrong" or "no"??????

 

You have this crazy mentality that everybody is out to eliminate all express buses. If a bus is practically empty and there are alternatives around, why should that bus stay? Did I ever say that all express routes are like that?? No, I just said some are and those routes should be eliminated.

 

 

Thanks for taking this long to clearify that your logic is very valid. The MTA will kill off the dead hourse lines so sit back and watch the show.

 

True but that is hardly the case with most NOT all express buses. We know that most of em are NOT empty. The weakest express buses are the ones that are near the LIRR the ones near the LIRR either carry air or can even shockingly carry a decent load. Most express buses dont duplicate subways that can go faster than the express bus like some QM lines I know they outright completly duplicate LIRR and the other a fast subway ur smart you know the lines I am talking about.

[B35 via Church]

To be fair, QM21 ridership isn't that high. It was much higher when the economy was better. Service was cut back recently.

 

 

 

no

 

 

 

wrong

 

 

 

If we had a subway system where people could get seats on trains after a long day at work, stations didn't smell like piss, people could take naps without being woken up by Mariachi bands, trains didn't make a defeaning screech when they entered a station, homeless men didn't stink up an entire car, and people didn't get into fights over seats then you wouldn't need express buses. Until then, express bus riders will pay for the privilege of not having to ride a 3rd world subway system.

1] The one word responses... I'm not gonna OD here; only thing I'd suggest you do when you feel compelled to post one (lol), is chalk it up to the game & realize that it truly is a waste of YOUR time & energy to post a one word response...

 

I do see a (positive) change in your posting habits... good job @ diffusing topics that used to irk the heck out of you... don't think it's gone unnoticed.... keep it up, fam.... don't regress here....

 

 

 

2] Regarding the subway, I still think you go too far with the chastising of it...

 

One thing I do disagree with (that last statement of yours) though.... If our current subway system were pristine, (actually) fast, and as close to perfect as possible, there would still be a need for express buses.... I'm surprised to hear someone with as strong an opinion on the things, make that statement ya just did....

 

Which begs the question....

 

- Do you have a sincere like/interest/concern for express buses (separate from however you feel about any other mode of transportation), or is it more that you're so fed up w/ our subway & local buses, the next best feel good thing, so to speak, is the express bus ?

 

you can shoot me a PM if you want, but all I ask is that you be honest fam....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You have this crazy mentality that everybody is out to eliminate all express buses. If a bus is practically empty and there are alternatives around, why should that bus stay? Did I ever say that all express routes are like that?? No, I just said some are and those routes should be eliminated.

 

To be honest, he does have a point. You've been going on and on about eliminating express bus routes when there really isn't much else to cut. The lines with low ridership have either been cut or reduced, so I don't really see what the issue is. They're not going to just slash every low ridership route over night. The overall goal of the should be to increase ridership and slashing routes does NOT accomplish that. I don't know why you can't see that, be it local or express. Your theory of slashing wasteful routes may just lead to fewer people riding, meaning fewer fares, meaning more service cuts and HIGHER fares. Aside from the express bus, you seem to have this grand idea of just cramming people onto buses and subways as much as possible because that's going to keep the fare low and you still haven't explained really how you came to that conclusion. I don't see the logic in that either.

 

And let's say you did that and people became so pissed that more and more people refused to pay, then what? I personally think that we're reaching that point quite frankly. You keep saying that people would still have alternatives, but you're missing the big picture. Fewer people will ride transit if it is not convenient for them. Why should I go through a f*cking obstacle course to get to my destination if I can simply drive there or take car service? Maybe you like making 3 and 4 transfers just to get from point A to point B, but the average person does not. It would be interesting to see how people have changed or curtailed their traveling plans since the cuts. I'm almost certain that the recent cuts are another reason why bus ridership is down.

[checkmatechamp13]

To be honest, he does have a point. You've been going on and on about eliminating express bus routes when there really isn't much else to cut. The lines with low ridership have either been cut or reduced, so I don't really see what the issue is. They're not going to just slash every low ridership route over night. The overall goal of the should be to increase ridership and slashing routes does NOT accomplish that. I don't know why you can't see that, be it local or express. Your theory of slashing wasteful routes may just lead to fewer people riding, meaning fewer fares, meaning more service cuts and HIGHER fares. Aside from the express bus, you seem to have this grand idea of just cramming people onto buses and subways as much as possible because that's going to keep the fare low and you still haven't explained really how you came to that conclusion. I don't see the logic in that either.

 

And let's say you did that and people became so pissed that more and more people refused to pay, then what? I personally think that we're reaching that point quite frankly. You keep saying that people would still have alternatives, but you're missing the big picture. Fewer people will ride transit if it is not convenient for them. Why should I go through a f*cking obstacle course to get to my destination if I can simply drive there or take car service? Maybe you like making 3 and 4 transfers just to get from point A to point B, but the average person does not. It would be interesting to see how people have changed or curtailed their traveling plans since the cuts. I'm almost certain that the recent cuts are another reason why bus ridership is down.

 

1) There are still a bunch of MTA Bus routes with low ridership that are still around. I know the city is subsidizing those routes, but they should just give the MTA the money directly, rather than subsidizing low-ridership routes.

 

2) I don't see how reducing service on a low-ridership route can lead to higher fares. If a passenger is paying $5.50 to ride a route that costs $20 per person to operate, I don't see how eliminating that route will reduce revenue.

 

3) It's still cheaper for the MTA to give those people a free ride than it is to run a really expensive route. But I don't think that logic applies to the express buses, where most of the reductions would be made.

 

On the local buses, yeah, I could see that happening, but there isn't much left to reduce in terms of actual service reductions. Maybe some frequency reductions, but that's about it. There, I could see fares being lost (I already see an increase in the number of people entering through the back door when there is no space in the front. I try my best to enter through the front so the MTA gets a record that I rode, but sometimes it just can't be done)

 

4) What's interesting is that the ridership was fairly stable until a few months after June 2010. I guess people were willing to try the alternate routes, but then they realized that it just wasn't worth paying $2.25 when you could outwalk the bus.

[qjtransitmaster]

1) There are still a bunch of MTA Bus routes with low ridership that are still around. I know the city is subsidizing those routes, but they should just give the MTA the money directly, rather than subsidizing low-ridership routes.

 

2) I don't see how reducing service on a low-ridership route can lead to higher fares. If a passenger is paying $5.50 to ride a route that costs $20 per person to operate, I don't see how eliminating that route will reduce revenue.

 

3) It's still cheaper for the MTA to give those people a free ride than it is to run a really expensive route. But I don't think that logic applies to the express buses, where most of the reductions would be made.

 

On the local buses, yeah, I could see that happening, but there isn't much left to reduce in terms of actual service reductions. Maybe some frequency reductions, but that's about it. There, I could see fares being lost (I already see an increase in the number of people entering through the back door when there is no space in the front. I try my best to enter through the front so the MTA gets a record that I rode, but sometimes it just can't be done)

 

4) What's interesting is that the ridership was fairly stable until a few months after June 2010. I guess people were willing to try the alternate routes, but then they realized that it just wasn't worth paying $2.25 when you could outwalk the bus.

you do realize that logic only works on some queens express bus routes right. This problem doesn't apply to any staten island or bronx routes. Not even brooklyn. Queens the only ones that will get cut are the X and QM3 and maybe 18

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) There are still a bunch of MTA Bus routes with low ridership that are still around. I know the city is subsidizing those routes, but they should just give the MTA the money directly, rather than subsidizing low-ridership routes.

 

2) I don't see how reducing service on a low-ridership route can lead to higher fares. If a passenger is paying $5.50 to ride a route that costs $20 per person to operate, I don't see how eliminating that route will reduce revenue.

 

3) It's still cheaper for the MTA to give those people a free ride than it is to run a really expensive route. But I don't think that logic applies to the express buses, where most of the reductions would be made.

 

On the local buses, yeah, I could see that happening, but there isn't much left to reduce in terms of actual service reductions. Maybe some frequency reductions, but that's about it. There, I could see fares being lost (I already see an increase in the number of people entering through the back door when there is no space in the front. I try my best to enter through the front so the MTA gets a record that I rode, but sometimes it just can't be done)

 

4) What's interesting is that the ridership was fairly stable until a few months after June 2010. I guess people were willing to try the alternate routes, but then they realized that it just wasn't worth paying $2.25 when you could outwalk the bus.

 

1) And define what is a "bunch"?? The ones that are left, which quite frankly aren't that many with low ridership, most of them serve relatively isolated areas with poor local bus service. So let's cut the express buses but of course there will be no improvements in local bus service, which means no service period. Let's not improve service anywhere. Let's slash as much as possible so we can keep fares low. That seems to be your theory, regardless of the impact felt by those who lose their service. In Brooklyn all you have is the BM1, BM2, BM3, BM4 and BM5 (excluding the X27/X28, which DO have high ridership). I would say you could cut the BM4 and BM5. The other three are needed, even though I wouldn't be wild about cutting the BM4 because it serves a relatively isolated Gerritsen Beach. I can't see there being that many QM lines with low ridership, and not many BXMs with low ridership either, so what lines specifically are you referring to??

 

2) Oh please. Don't try to switch it to just express buses. You've been advocating for slashing local buses too, which is ridiculous. How do you expect people to get around in a city that is NOT car dependent overall?

 

3) Yeah, that's what you want, and you'll argue that until you're blue in face. It's okay to give people a free ride while leaving entire communities without any sort of quick alternative and in some cases without any transportation service at all. I see the "logic" in that. So let those people without any service (local or express) pay more to get around (be it by driving or taking car service) and so forth so that others can hop on and get a free ride.

 

4) Uh yeah, that's exactly the point. You keep cutting and people will just say f*ck it. Why bother to ride.

[Q43LTD]

:cool:

 

 

Thanks for taking this long to clearify that your logic is very valid. The MTA will kill off the dead hourse lines so sit back and watch the show.

 

True but that is hardly the case with most NOT all express buses. We know that most of em are NOT empty. The weakest express buses are the ones that are near the LIRR the ones near the LIRR either carry air or can even shockingly carry a decent load. Most express buses dont duplicate subways that can go faster than the express bus like some QM lines I know they outright completly duplicate LIRR and the other a fast subway ur smart you know the lines I am talking about.

None of the QM lines duplicate the LIRR

[Forest Glen]

1] The one word responses... I'm not gonna OD here; only thing I'd suggest you do when you feel compelled to post one (lol), is chalk it up to the game & realize that it truly is a waste of YOUR time & energy to post a one word response...

 

I do see a (positive) change in your posting habits... good job @ diffusing topics that used to irk the heck out of you... don't think it's gone unnoticed.... keep it up, fam.... don't regress here....

 

 

 

2] Regarding the subway, I still think you go too far with the chastising of it...

 

One thing I do disagree with (that last statement of yours) though.... If our current subway system were pristine, (actually) fast, and as close to perfect as possible, there would still be a need for express buses.... I'm surprised to hear someone with as strong an opinion on the things, make that statement ya just did....

 

Which begs the question....

 

- Do you have a sincere like/interest/concern for express buses (separate from however you feel about any other mode of transportation), or is it more that you're so fed up w/ our subway & local buses, the next best feel good thing, so to speak, is the express bus ?

 

you can shoot me a PM if you want, but all I ask is that you be honest fam....

 

The one word response is my catch phrase. It is based on a parody of someone who I dislike at another transit forum (99.9% of you know who I'm referring to).

 

Getting back to the topic, I'll say this: if I had a choice between riding the express bus and DC Metro I wouldn't even think twice about riding the Metro. I was always interested in express buses since they're faster and more comfortable than local buses, but I didn't start hating the NYC subway until the creation of the train. To make matters worse, I became fed up with the R32's on the and the stench of Jamaica Center. Just to be clear, I didn't become an express bus fan simply out of spite for the NYC subway. I remember back in 2000 when my parents finally let me ride the train into the city. I was torn between whether I wanted to take the R46 train or the express bus.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The one word response is my catch phrase. It is based on a parody of someone who I dislike at another transit forum (99.9% of you know who I'm referring to).

 

Getting back to the topic, I'll say this: if I had a choice between riding the express bus and DC Metro I wouldn't even think twice about riding the Metro. I was always interested in express buses since they're faster and more comfortable than local buses, but I didn't start hating the NYC subway until the creation of the train. To make matters worse, I became fed up with the R32's on the and the stench of Jamaica Center. Just to be clear, I didn't become an express bus fan simply out of spite for the NYC subway. I remember back in 2000 when my parents finally let me ride the train into the city. I was torn between whether I wanted to take the R46 train or the express bus.

 

It's funny because a friend of mine from high school and I were talking about renting a place together until I'm ready to buy a place in the next year or two and I think we're going to have to come to a compromise. I'm willing to move back to Brooklyn or even move to Queens, but I am not giving up my express bus service, so it would have to be somewhere where he can have his subway and I can have my express bus. :cool: I'm thinking Midwood perhaps this way I can still have my BM expresses and he can have his train or whatever. I would just have to figure out what I'd do on Sundays. Maybe just use car service to and from the city.

[LRG]

The one word response is my catch phrase. It is based on a parody of someone who I dislike at another transit forum (99.9% of you know who I'm referring to).

 

Getting back to the topic, I'll say this: if I had a choice between riding the express bus and DC Metro I wouldn't even think twice about riding the Metro. I was always interested in express buses since they're faster and more comfortable than local buses, but I didn't start hating the NYC subway until the creation of the train. To make matters worse, I became fed up with the R32's on the and the stench of Jamaica Center. Just to be clear, I didn't become an express bus fan simply out of spite for the NYC subway. I remember back in 2000 when my parents finally let me ride the train into the city. I was torn between whether I wanted to take the R46 train or the express bus.

 

Is it necessary you have to imitate the person who uses those one-word responses? We all know that person is a certified jerk, so unless you really want to adapt those one-word responses as your "catch phrase" then we'll have no choice but to label you a certified jerk as well.

 

You're defending the express buses like you can afford to ride them like Via Garibaldi 8 can, when you said yourself you cannot afford them. It's one thing to defend the premium service if you're a regular user like VG8, or even an occasional user as I am, but to go on and defend all of the routes is just juvenile. We get it, you hate the subway, you hate the train and R32s...good for you. I don't like the new train but you don't see me ranting about it (or at least not like I used to)....

 

Calm down and relax. It's not that serious, it's just trains and buses for crying out loud!