MTA makes underhanded cuts to Subway service

[EE Broadway Local]

The M.T.A. quietly cut two trains from the and lines during the morning rush hours reducing the to 16 trains per hour and the to 21 trains per hour on July 1st? And off-peak, they also cut two trains from the and lines?

 

Unless I'm off, that doesn't seem liike too bad of a cut (of course, I'm in a region where the best service during rush hours/middays is every ten (10 minutes, the best evening/Saturday service is every 15 minutes, and the best Sunday service is every 20 minutes).

[4P3607]

I was on the yesterday, and every train that I passed the rear 5 cars had 0-3 people in them. The first 5 cars had at most 10-12 (during midday, not RH).

 

Though when I was waiting for the about a week ago, It seeemed that headways were dramatically reduced. Also, one of the trains that starts from Parkchester never showed up! :eek:.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I was on the yesterday, and every train that I passed the rear 5 cars had 0-3 people in them. The first 5 cars had at most 10-12 (during midday, not RH).

 

Though when I was waiting for the about a week ago, It seeemed that headways were dramatically reduced. Also, one of the trains that starts from Parkchester never showed up! :eek:.

 

That would make sense about the because it has f*cked up on the weekends since I can remember. Doesn't serve South Ferry on the weekends now with all of the construction down at the WTC so folks are using other alternatives.

[cdi919]

He does have a point... You can't deny that all of the falsifications of signals being checked has to make one think that at least somebody was slacking off. I mean I still want to know what the did to resolve that problem? They claimed that it was a problem and that they hadn't figured out yet how to resolve it, but that backups were in place. Now of course they've gone hush about it, but I for one sure as hell haven't forgotten. That is a serious safety issue right there and probably another reason why I don't use the subway as much these days, though I have been using it for short distances here and there like today.

 

 

 

Actually I think he's got a point too. This thread is about underhanded subway cuts, but also why they're being made and perhaps part of it is the trying to get at the unions.

 

if you want to bring up the signals thing bring it all up. they were told by managers and supervisors to fudge the inspections because they wanted it done in a hurry and did not want to pay ot to meet their crazy deadlines. you cant start in manhattan travel to queens check signals from 71st to 36st and be back at the office before your 8 hours is over.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

if you want to bring up the signals thing bring it all up. they were told by managers and supervisors to fudge the inspections because they wanted it done in a hurry and did not want to pay ot to meet their crazy deadlines. you cant start in manhattan travel to queens check signals from 71st to 36st and be back at the office before your 8 hours is over.

 

Even so that's just insane. I would have to think that some heads rolled over this whole incident.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

To get back on topic the line is one of the last lines I would expect to see lighter ridership on during the summer. If the line is getting 2 TPH cut due to a light riding schedule than other lines systemwide should be doing so as well. I'm surprised that , and riders aren't complaining about this. The may not have huge crowds in the cars during off-peak hours but that's because of rider turnover. I see lots of people on the Upper West Side transfer between the and or essentially emptying one out for the other. The should run as many trains as possible to ensure the transferring is as quick and easy as possible. While 2 TPH may not be a big deal to riders on those lines that already experience frequent service the is still sending a bad message with this light riding procedure.

[TwoTimer]

Nah, I'm not gonna bother. If you really wanna go there, start a new thread or something.

 

I will.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

To get back on topic the line is one of the last lines I would expect to see lighter ridership on during the summer. If the line is getting 2 TPH cut due to a light riding schedule than other lines systemwide should be doing so as well. I'm surprised that , and riders aren't complaining about this. The may not have huge crowds in the cars during off-peak hours but that's because of rider turnover. I see lots of people on the Upper West Side transfer between the and or essentially emptying one out for the other. The should run as many trains as possible to ensure the transferring is as quick and easy as possible. While 2 TPH may not be a big deal to riders on those lines that already experience frequent service the is still sending a bad message with this light riding procedure.

 

 

Better yet, take those savings and use them to improve express service. I always felt like the did their best to intentionally provide slow express service. The and always seem to run like sh*t and the was always horrendous.

[RTOMan]

Nah, I'm not gonna bother. If you really wanna go there, start a new thread or something.

 

Somebody did lets see if you are there Ok?

[TwoTimer]

Better yet, take those savings and use them to improve express service. I always felt like the did their best to intentionally provide slow express service. The and always seem to run like sh*t and the was always horrendous.

 

They screwed the ( over with that long Brighton project, I have yet to do an express run on the Brighton, can't wait till next year when it finishes up. The is the line they screwed up more than any other (here's a long list of stupid stuff, and I won't even start on the in Brooklyn)...

1. Slowed down timers in Cranberry tube, used to just wrap the puppy going south from Bway-Nassau (now Fulton).

2. Timer both ways between High and Jay. Going uphill in the southern direction. Going south, hold 19mph until it clears. Going north, clears at 17.

3. Timer in Jay, hold 20mph until train is halfway in station.

4. Psuedo timer between Franklin and Nostrand going south. Clears on the post, but I take it at 35 in case they slow it down (which they eventually will).

5. Timer between Kingston and Utica going south, clears at 33, I take it at 31 usually.

6. Timer inside Utica going north, clears at about 26. I hold 25 and let it roll in. Mind you this is after the timers at Ralph.

7. Timer inside Broadway Jnct both directions, two shot going south clears at 18, one shot going north clears at 13 (going uphill).

8. Timer inside Grand Av, clears at 9mph, right after a posted 20mph switch, you encounter the timer while the back of the train is still on the switch. If the timer cleared at 20 (posted at 15), I would have no complaint as it really is a rough ride if the switch is taken at more than 22. I enter the area at 9-10, let it clear then I get a chance to wrap it into the station.

9. Timer at Hamels Wye, one shot homeball clears at about 18 (posted at 30), I take it at 20 and am almost on top of it by time it clears.

 

Just a few years back all of these were not there.

[RTOMan]

The Brighton Line should be 100% completed in September. The Winter B Div Work Program reflects that.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The Brighton Line should be 100% completed in September. The Winter B Div Work Program reflects that.

 

They should run service longer and more frequently on the and interline it better with the .

[TwoTimer]

The Brighton Line should be 100% completed in September. The Winter B Div Work Program reflects that.

 

Cool. Get to finally do some express, lol. And actually, service was expanded, and runs longer than it used to.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Cool. Get to finally do some express, lol. And actually, service was expanded, and runs longer than it used to.

 

Expanded how and where? I haven't seen any difference when I use it and from what I recall it doesn't run on the weekends either.

[TwoTimer]

A few years ago that expanded service supplement went to effect where (B)'s ran later into the night then they used to (along with a greater frequency of service evenings and a few other things). That was the last time they had a surplus. Of course it doesn't run on weekends, I won't go as far as to say it isn't needed on the weekends (just helpful as the only packed CPW station is 81st and it and the together is too much Brighton service for the weekend), but its a feeder line for the and .

[SI Subway]

To those who are raising a fuss (or at least pretending to) about the summer light-riding schedules, I must ask... Where have you been for the past few DECADES?

 

What is supposedly "underhanded" about ANNUAL summer light-riding schedules? It's done EVERY YEAR (hence the word "annual") to reflect the fact that some trains and buses carry fewer riders during summer months than they do the rest of the year.

 

Are the trains "empty"? Clearly not. Are some trains a little less crowded? Yes, some are, because the students aren't there and some of the adults are on vacation.

 

Just because it's a regular service cut doesn't mean it's right, or good. The being cut is a really big suprise, because it is usually so crowded, and it still somewhat is. If anything, probably the or should've been cut, those have defenite lower ridership.

 

Again, it's done EVERY YEAR. Anybody who cries foul now has already known about such things in years past and deliberately said nothing.

 

They DID say something about it. Just look in the Board materials and you'll find it. As we all know, routine adjustments have never required hearings.

 

 

No, I'm just a citizen who keeps up with such things. Anybody else who wants to can find all the legally required disclosures.

 

Per above comment.

 

I don't dispute that. I'm just saying that they do make underhanded cuts that they don't put even in the fine print.

 

Why don't they? What advantage is there to leaving us in the dark? I see none except a slightly lower electricity bill for not using the PA at the stations, but it's not enough to justify.

 

I've only been living in Philly for a year. The previous 10 were in NY. When I see workers slacking off, then demanding more pay for less work (not to mention pensions), and then striking, effectively shutting New York down, I get a slight distaste for the TWU.

 

What are you talking about less work? Many transit employees (see RTOMan and TwoTimer) work their hardest and don't "slack off" as you say. To lump everyone together like that is rude and hurtful.

 

I will.

 

Can you provide a link?

 

To get back on topic the line is one of the last lines I would expect to see lighter ridership on during the summer. If the line is getting 2 TPH cut due to a light riding schedule than other lines systemwide should be doing so as well. I'm surprised that , and riders aren't complaining about this. The may not have huge crowds in the cars during off-peak hours but that's because of rider turnover. I see lots of people on the Upper West Side transfer between the and or essentially emptying one out for the other. The should run as many trains as possible to ensure the transferring is as quick and easy as possible. While 2 TPH may not be a big deal to riders on those lines that already experience frequent service the is still sending a bad message with this light riding procedure.

 

Per first comment, as well as this one: If you are going to cut the why not cut every line in the system? The needs as many TPH as possible, and it is no wonder why so many people are riled up about this.

 

The Brighton Line should be 100% completed in September. The Winter B Div Work Program reflects that.

 

YAAAAAY!!!!! B):tup:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

A few years ago that expanded service supplement went to effect where (B)'s ran later into the night then they used to (along with a greater frequency of service evenings and a few other things). That was the last time they had a surplus. Of course it doesn't run on weekends, I won't go as far as to say it isn't needed on the weekends (just helpful as the only packed CPW station is 81st and it and the together is too much Brighton service for the weekend), but its a feeder line for the and .

 

I'm willing to bet that folks would be willing to sacrifice some (Q)s to have some (B)s on the weekends.

[TwoTimer]

I'm willing to bet that folks would be willing to sacrifice some (Q)s to have some (B)s on the weekends.

 

I generally agree with that, especially when the basically doesn't go anywhere (57-7...pfft please) and the and are still there for Broadway service and the Charlies doing fine by itself. I can see the and running 12 or 15 minute headways together on weekends (6-8 when combined) with the ( local (to 145).

[B35 via Church]

I'm willing to bet that folks would be willing to sacrifice some (Q)s to have some (B)s on the weekends.

 

I generally agree with that, especially when the basically doesn't go anywhere (57-7...pfft please) and the and are still there for Broadway service and the Charlies doing fine by itself. I can see the and running 12 or 15 minute headways together on weekends (6-8 when combined) with the ( local (to 145).

 

As a Brighton rider, I would sacrifice the amt. of service (weekday & weekend) for weekend ( service....

don't have to think twice about it....

 

I avoid the broadway line on the weekend, period - that's where the masses shop along....

6th av line on the weekend I can deal with; broadway, forget it....

[BJC]

are the same people that want everybody off the buses and onto trains.lol

 

 

That's not the point. The point is that the service was reduced and nothing was said about service reductions and they only said something because they were confronted about it. What are you? A spokesman for the or something?? :mad:

 

lol

[R32 3348]

To those who are raising a fuss (or at least pretending to) about the summer light-riding schedules, I must ask... Where have you been for the past few DECADES?

 

What is supposedly "underhanded" about ANNUAL summer light-riding schedules? It's done EVERY YEAR (hence the word "annual") to reflect the fact that some trains and buses carry fewer riders during summer months than they do the rest of the year.

 

Are the trains "empty"? Clearly not. Are some trains a little less crowded? Yes, some are, because the students aren't there and some of the adults are on vacation.

Before anyone else posts in this thread just read this comment again. The does this EVERY DAMN SUMMER! Logic states that if not as many people are using the system then you don't run as much service. The reduces service every summer and puts it back in September when service increases to normal levels again...where was everyone when they did this last year, the year before, etc...? Also, almost every and station has countdown clocks so it's not like anyone's being left in the dark either...(30 extra seconds? really?)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Before anyone else posts in this thread just read this comment again. The does this EVERY DAMN SUMMER! Logic states that if not as many people are using the system then you don't run as much service. The reduces service every summer and puts it back in September when service increases to normal levels again...where was everyone when they did this last year, the year before, etc...? Also, almost every and station has countdown clocks so it's not like anyone's being left in the dark either...(30 extra seconds? really?)

 

The problem is that the trains aren't all that empty to justify cutting it back. The thing with them is they keep the same service in place without even considering that subway usage is steadily growing over the years and not decreasing, including during the summertime, so the old standard isn't okay anymore.

 

In case anyone hasn't been paying attention, the population is growing here by the thousands, so even with it being the summertime, more people will be riding. You have to also consider that with the economy being in the tanks and the high gas prices, you have fewer people going away for long periods of time like in the past and they are staying here in NYC, which means that those people are still using the system.

 

Also, despite the recession, people are still coming here looking for work and to visit, which also makes these cuts ridiculous. Also, I've been using the line of late and it certainly hasn't been just an additional 30 seconds either. We have no proof that they didn't cut back more than what they're admitting, so I for one don't buy this whole just a few seconds BS. It's much more than that.

[R32 3348]

The problem is that the trains aren't all that empty to justify cutting it back. The thing with them is they keep the same service in place without even considering that subway usage is steadily growing over the years and not decreasing, including during the summertime, so the old standard isn't okay anymore.

 

In case anyone has been paying attention, the population is growing here by the thousands, so even with it being the summertime, more people will be riding. You have to also consider that with the economy being in the tanks and the high gas prices, you have fewer people going away for long periods of time like in the past and they are staying here in NYC, which means that those people are still using the system.

 

Also, despite the recession, people are still coming here looking for work and to visit, which also makes these cuts ridiculous. Also, I've been using the line of late and it certainly hasn't been just an additional 30 seconds either. We have no proof that they didn't cut back more than what they're admitting, so I for one don't buy this whole just a few seconds BS. It's much more than that.

 

In the article, it says that "MTA officials say during average peak times on summer weekdays, ridership is down 12 to 19 percent on the 1 line and between 10 to 19 percent on the 6 line". Even with more people riding the trains this number remains fairly constant given how many people aren't going to school/work anymore (vacation, etc.). So no matter how many people are riding the trains nowadays, that number is going to be lower in July and August than it would be in May or September. So it makes sense to cut 2 trains from each line, which is a ~10-15% service decrease on both lines. I've been using the line a lot in July and none of the trains I've been on have been unreasonably crowded (this is coming from someone who takes the every day during the school year).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

In the article, it says that "MTA officials say during average peak times on summer weekdays, ridership is down 12 to 19 percent on the 1 line and between 10 to 19 percent on the 6 line". Even with more people riding the trains this number remains fairly constant given how many people aren't going to school/work anymore (vacation, etc.). So no matter how many people are riding the trains nowadays, that number is going to be lower in July and August than it would be in May or September. So it makes sense to cut 2 trains from each line, which is a ~10-15% service decrease on both lines. I've been using the line a lot in July and none of the trains I've been on have been unreasonably crowded (this is coming from someone who takes the every day during the school year).

 

I have a ton of faith in what the says... LOL I still don't buy it they only cut a few trains on the . They cut far more than that as the wait times have increased at Grand Central where I get on at. I would say they cut service on the and also at certain times of the day and those trains while not like sardine cans, they are certainly crowded. No one is using the because for once the and the (5)s are coming faster, which really isn't saying much.

[B35 via Church]

I've been using the line a lot in July and none of the 1 trains I've been on have been unreasonably crowded (this is coming from someone who takes the 6 every day during the school year).

 

Of course you'd feel that way if you're a commuter.... The 6 carries heavier than the 1 does....

 

No one is using the 6 because for once the 4 and the 5's are coming faster, which really isn't saying much.

Within manhattan? huh.... since when....

 

Where are riders not using the 6 at ???