M15 SBS driver refused to let me board in front

[mdude04]

Because I am a more mild-mannered person than you, I will stand up and admit you were right - I did blow some of your comments out of proportion in a reductio ad absurdum way (you've done the same). If it lessened the impact of my comments, I regret that. Nevertheless, your logic is still baffling.

 

 

It's only uncalled for if your feelings were hurt or if you were offended and if you were, that's not my problem if you can't take sarcasm. And reading comprehension must suck for you.

 

"That makes you look kinda stupid"

 

/\ What masterful use of sarcasm. You should be a novelist with those skills. (<-- That is sarcasm, ok?)

 

You can always ask the bus operator for a transfer at anytime during the ride. People who understand the system well enough knows (sic) that.

 

If it's not common, then I would assume most people don't know that, right? Especially for casual bus riders like me.

 

What you thought of my post was completely different from what was said.

 

You said I looked stupid for knowing what the rule was and assuming I needed to follow the rule. That is the exact essence of what you said.

 

-

 

As for my analogies with the subway rules, etc, it shouldn't have made a difference if I was talking about the rules of SBS or the rules of Blackjack. My point there was that most normal people assume rules exist for a reason. Yes, sometimes rules are bended or not always adhered to, but if someone's default assumption is that a rule is fully enforced, that is not stupid. You could have said, "That may be the official rule, but in reality bus operators are pretty lenient about transfers" but instead you said, "You look stupid." Childish.

[Cait Sith]

You said I looked stupid for knowing what the rule was and assuming I needed to follow the rule. That is the exact essence of what you said.

 

 

Nope.

 

-

 

As for my analogies with the subway rules, etc, it shouldn't have made a difference if I was talking about the rules of SBS or the rules of Blackjack.

 

It makes a difference, two different scenarios, two different concepts.

 

And judging by the last post, I guess I did hit a nerve and hurt your feelings. Well in that case, I apologize (sarcasm)

[Orion]

Once I was at 44th and 1st and there was an M15 SBS stopped at a red light, so I quickly got a ticket and tapped on the front door, but he refused to let me on. I tapped on it harder and he just looked straight ahead and ignored me. I took my phone out, went in front of the bus, and snapped a picture of the driver, except when I went back to the curb and he took off I hit the erase button instead of save. :mad:

 

From what I've seen, a lot of SBS drivers act as if they're operating a subway train, in the sense that they'll start trying to close the door when there's clearly still people trying to board and they'll shoot off once the doors close, even if there's still people at the stop. They'll also never wait for you if you're in the middle of getting a ticket and they have a green light.

 

People like you make me sick, get a life. PLEASE get a life. Get a freaking life.

 

This is SBS, a freaking express, limited, whatever you call it. You missed the bus, stop wasting time for being a sore loser you filthy piece of fecal matter. You missed a M15, too bad, wait for another. The bus runs like water. So what if he was at a red light. Don't like it? Take your moronic sorry a$$ to a damn taxi and leave transit alone. You are one of the millions of idiots who wonders why the buses and trains are late/delayed, and it's because of people like you who think the bus and train should wait for every last person to come running from the turnstile or running down from the block.

 

Are you blind, stupid, or ****ed, you blind stupid ****? :mad::mad::mad::mad:

[mdude04]

Just because you entered the bus through the rear doesnt forfeit your right for a transfer while on the M15 SBS...Thinking that way kinda makes you look stupid. Just sayin'

 

Rule = Get transfer -> Enter through the front door

Therefore,

Rule = Don't enter through the front door -> Don't get transfer

 

I believe the above rule is fully enforced. You are saying that to believe that makes me look stupid. What am I missing?

 

Also, you didn't hit a nerve. But you did hit one of my pet peeves, which is when people think their opinions are better than fact (in this case, the fact would be the written MTA rules), and are completely unwilling to admit when their argument is wrong.

[Cait Sith]

Rule = Get transfer -> Enter through the front door

Therefore,

Rule = Don't enter through the front door -> Don't get transfer

 

I believe the above rule is fully enforced. You are saying that to believe that makes me look stupid. What am I missing?

 

You're missing the fact that you don't get what I posted....I said Just because you entered the bus through the rear doesnt forfeit your right for a transfer while on the M15 SBS...Thinking that way kinda makes you look stupid. Just sayin'

 

It was not about the rule, it was about the thought. Very simple minded you are.

 

As for the rule, thats a rule, people follow it. But is there anywhere in the MTA rules that state that you lose your right at getting a transfer during the duration of your ride....? That's where I was getting at in oh-I-don't-know....4-6 posts? In which apparently that point flew over your head like a 747.

 

Think before you respond buddy.

 

As for

 

Also, you didn't hit a nerve. But you did hit one of my pet peeves, which is when people think their opinions are better than fact (in this case, the fact would be the written MTA rules), and are completely unwilling to admit when their argument is wrong.

 

Just because you misunderstood the context not once, but twice, that doesn't make me wrong. It just makes you more.....

 

And btw, I only admit that I'm wrong when I know I am wrong and I've done it quite a few times. Perhaps the whole "stupid" thing was going too far, but as for the argument, you've misunderstood the context several times and that is not my fault.

[mdude04]

You're missing the fact that you don't get what I posted....I said Just because you entered the bus through the rear doesnt forfeit your right for a transfer while on the M15 SBS...Thinking that way kinda makes you look stupid. Just sayin'

 

It was not about the rule, it was about the thought. Very simple minded you are.

 

As for the rule, thats a rule, people follow it. But is there anywhere in the MTA rules that state that you lose your right at getting a transfer during the duration of your ride....? That's where I was getting at in oh-I-don't-know....4-6 posts? In which apparently that point flew over your head like a 747.

 

Saying "if you want a transfer, enter through the front door" and "if you don't enter through the front door, you don't get a transfer" are saying the exact same thing. It's called the law of contraposition. So if the rule says you need to enter through the front door to get a transfer, the rule also says if you don't enter through the front door you don't get a transfer.

 

And of course I would never think that if you were to go up to the front of the bus during the trip and ask for a transfer that the driver would tell you to pound sand. All I thought was that is not how it's supposed to work and if you do that, you're going against the rules (aka, "according to the rules" the only time you can get a transfer is at the time of boarding and, at least on paper, not asking for a transfer then means you don't get a transfer). I wanted to follow the rules. Is that so terrible?

[Cait Sith]

I wanted to follow the rules. Is that so terrible?

 

No, but there is always the concept of trying to ask.

[mdude04]

No, but there is always the concept of trying to ask.

 

Hence this thread. The reason I posted this thread was for insight just like this (I did not know it was widely accepted to just go to the front at any time to ask for a transfer). The only thing I had an issue with was the tone. I'd also like to reiterate that at no time did I complain about the bus driver in question. I only asked why he would tell me to go to the back of the bus when the rules state transfer customers need to board in the front.

 

So I don't think we were ever at odds on principle. It's just the way you condemned me for wondering why the b/o asked me to go to the back, as though it was a ridiculous thing to wonder. That is what led to this fervent back-and-forth.

[mark1447]

People like you make me sick, get a life. PLEASE get a life. Get a freaking life.

 

This is SBS, a freaking express, limited, whatever you call it. You missed the bus, stop wasting time for being a sore loser you filthy piece of fecal matter. You missed a M15, too bad, wait for another. The bus runs like water. So what if he was at a red light. Don't like it? Take your moronic sorry a$$ to a damn taxi and leave transit alone. You are one of the millions of idiots who wonders why the buses and trains are late/delayed, and it's because of people like you who think the bus and train should wait for every last person to come running from the turnstile or running down from the block.

 

Are you blind, stupid, or ****ed, you blind stupid ****? :mad::mad::mad::mad:

 

Agreed!

 

I wouldnt even care if I missed the +SBS, especially when most of the buses are packed, which I hate. All you gotta do is wait.

 

If you don't like missing the bus.... LOOK at the timetable and COME on time!

 

Don't like it? Find an alternative way!

[YoungFoch]

Hence this thread. The reason I posted this thread was for insight just like this (I did not know it was widely accepted to just go to the front at any time to ask for a transfer). The only thing I had an issue with was the tone. I'd also like to reiterate that at no time did I complain about the bus driver in question. I only asked why he would tell me to go to the back of the bus when the rules state transfer customers need to board in the front.

 

So I don't think we were ever at odds on principle. It's just the way you condemned me for wondering why the b/o asked me to go to the back, as though it was a ridiculous thing to wonder. That is what led to this fervent back-and-forth.

 

Much of this could have been avoided had you just asked the driver why you weren't allowed to board through the front door. The fact that you created this thread indicates that it bothered you enough to want answers. Who better to ask than the driver himself?

 

As far as transfers go, on a local bus where all customers enter through the front doors, you are required to ask for a transfer upon payment of the cash fare. Im pretty sure the reason is to keep people who paid with metrocards or farebeaters from requesting transfers to get additional free rides that they aren't entitled to. If you will need a transfer, there is no reason not to ask for one at the same time that the fare is paid. However, sometimes people ask for transfers when getting off for whatever reason, and the driver gives it to them to avoid conflict. Its just a piece of paper and its not worth the hassle. B/O Edwin Thomas was murdered by a passenger over a transfer.

 

On an SBS bus, when the fare is paid in coins, you are given a receipt which is different from the type you get by paying with a metrocard. This receipt is proof that you paid in coins and therefore entitled to a transfer. Since you are in possession of this receipt, it does not matter which door you enter, as you're not putting coins into the farebox anyway. It is preferred that you enter through the front door to make things easier, but not required. You have your proof of payment so enter through any door you want.

 

FYI: I'm still a rookie bus operator with 8 months on the job, so i won't pretend i know all the rules. I'm just telling you my perspective from the experience i have so far. I drove the M15 local for a couple of months and did the M15 SBS a few times while I was at 126st depot. Hope this helps

[datDude]

 

From what I've seen, a lot of SBS drivers act as if they're operating a subway train, in the sense that they'll start trying to close the door when there's clearly still people trying to board and they'll shoot off once the doors close, even if there's still people at the stop. They'll also never wait for you if you're in the middle of getting a ticket and they have a green light.

 

I thought that was the whole point, to make it as subway like as possible.

Why bother have SBS if your gonna wait for every passenger to pay, or is waiting to pay. You'll never leave the bus stop at that rate, SBS are usually very busy routes.

[Acela Express]

My thing is: if you ain't in the bus stand when I come in, or finish loading, I'm leaving... without any hesitation. If you miss the bus, that's on you. It seems like the folks who get on the bus after you let them after you're not supposed to, are the ones who bitch and moan about nothing. I rather just keep it pushing.

[YoungFoch]

My thing is: if you ain't in the bus stand when I come in, or finish loading, I'm leaving... without any hesitation. If you miss the bus, that's on you. It seems like the folks who get on the bus after you let them after you're not supposed to, are the ones who bitch and moan about nothing. I rather just keep it pushing.

 

Exactly...and on local buses these are the people who will stand in the doorway or in front of the farebox catching their breath and saying things like "im glad i caught you or i would have had to wait 10 min for the next one. Is this bus going to_______?"(because during the mad dash to the bus they didnt get a good look at the destination sign). Then they proceed to look for a metrocard, which wasnt ready since they had to scramble to catch the bus. You cant move because they are in front of the white line and arent holding on to anything. The first metrocard is empty. The second metrocard only has $1.70 on it. Now they search their pockets for change to make up the difference. Finally they pay the fare and ask for a transfer. By the time they get themselves together and move past the line, either the light turns red or 3 more people come running. Now i'm thinking "damn I should have never waited for this guy, next time I wont be so nice".

[RokuSix]

I thought that was the whole point, to make it as subway like as possible.

Why bother have SBS if your gonna wait for every passenger to pay, or is waiting to pay. You'll never leave the bus stop at that rate, SBS are usually very busy routes.

 

This is true. Some drivers on the Bx12 select are very nice, and while though that is great, if we keep waiting for everyone, we will be stuck there for longer than necessary. Sometimes the convenience of one or two people is not worth the waste of everyone else on the bus's time.

[TriboroughBridge]

Typically most people don't board through the front doors, but it's definitely allowed.

 

I know, I go through the back doors, just because I can't do that on any other bus!

 

 

Like I've said in earlier post....I'm absolutely tired of posts like this when people start that "Call the or (NJT)" over every little thing. Some of you people really need to buy a car or find another mode of transportation if you have a problem with riding the bus or train.

 

I know, it's sad. A B/O was telling me, he was a B/O for over 20 years & back in the 80's people wouldn't complain that much, because of what they had to do to get in touch with the . Today they have cell phone so they call right there and then.

 

He said, someone calls every time they had to run after a bus, because they missed it *FACEPALM*

 

I personally think, the only time a person should call the , is when a B/O is being really nasty to them (& I dont mean, if some idiot got on a limited bus & asked the B/O to stop at a local stop & he said, "no this is a limited bus") or for discrimination.

[Fresh Pond]

This is true. Some drivers on the Bx12 select are very nice, and while though that is great, if we keep waiting for everyone, we will be stuck there for longer than necessary. Sometimes the convenience of one or two people is not worth the waste of everyone else on the bus's time.

 

If every driver kept waiting for every Tom, Steve, & Harry at the last minute, it totally defeats the purpose of the SBS

 

BTW I thought you stop posting on here

[KNIGHTRIDER3:16]

I'm curious to know where you was heading?I would also like to know if you learned anything from this cause I see alot of info being stated?

[RokuSix]

If every driver kept waiting for every Tom, Steve, & Harry at the last minute, it totally defeats the purpose of the SBS

 

BTW I thought you stop posting on here

 

I thought so too D:

It's a mix of factors as to why I'm back, though. I kind of miss everyone!

[East New York]

Could have been a wheelchair passenger, but even if that was the case, wouldn't it have made sense to just give me my transfer and then let the passenger off? I'm blanking a bit right now, but how does wheelchair passenger deboarding work on regular buses?

 

Anything could have been going through the drivers head. What I don't understand is why you didn't ask the B/O what was going on if it concerned you this much. We don't know his side of the story, and neither do you. That makes it difficult for someone to give ypu the "right" answer.

 

Once I was at 44th and 1st and there was an M15 SBS stopped at a red light, so I quickly got a ticket and tapped on the front door, but he refused to let me on. I tapped on it harder and he just looked straight ahead and ignored me. I took my phone out, went in front of the bus, and snapped a picture of the driver, except when I went back to the curb and he took off I hit the erase button instead of save. :mad:

 

From what I've seen, a lot of SBS drivers act as if they're operating a subway train, in the sense that they'll start trying to close the door when there's clearly still people trying to board and they'll shoot off once the doors close, even if there's still people at the stop. They'll also never wait for you if you're in the middle of getting a ticket and they have a green light.

 

I want to add in one point no one mentioned. Once a bus pulls away from a stop or curb, red light or not, the operator is NOT supposed to let anyone on or off the bus. This is a safety issue. If you trip and fall, or get hit by a car while getting on or off a bus that is not pulled into a stop, MTA is automatically at fault. So you could have reported the driver all you wanted and it would have been a complete waste of your time and the MTA's. YOU were in the wrong. Not the B/O.

 

Once the doors close on the SBS, and most Limited buses, it should be a rule that the doors remain closed until the next stop. You should have been at the bus stop.

 

I think with the NGs/other low floor buses the bus operator opens the rear doors for people who need to get off (they close automatically anyway after the last person leaves so farebeaters who try to get in through the back can't do so) while s/he operates the ramp for the person in the wheelchair so they can get off. It happens here, at least.

 

The doors are spec'd the way MTA wants them to be, and are adjusted accordingly. The Orion VII's on the M34 for example are now set to close by operator control.

]

 

God, you people need to learn to read. I specifically stated that the driver had a RED LIGHT when I attempted to board, and the crosswalk wasn't flashing or anything.

 

If the driver had a green light then it would be a completely different story, but he was stopped at a red and refused to open the doors for something that would've taken under 10 seconds, but instead he stood there at the red light for at least 30 seconds just staring straight ahead trying to ignore me. The next SBS came about 12 minutes later, so that doubled my trip time.

 

See above post directed to you.

 

Now that's just uncalled for. You are stupid for going into threads and criticizing people when they don't follow the rules, and then calling me stupid because I do follow the rules. How am I to know which rules are arbitrary? You know, the SBS rules say "You pay your fare at the stop at either the MetroCard Fare Collector or Coin Fare Collector machine before boarding." I bet that means I can't pay after I board. Oh wait; I'm stupid for assuming that. I'm sure that's just an arbitrary thing and there's no reason the MTA wrote that in its list of rules. The subway rules state "Swipe your MetroCard through the slot in the top of the turnstile," but I'm sure I can just wait for someone to open the emergency exit door and go through there. It would be stupid to think I have to enter the subway the way the MTA tells me to. The MTA says I cannot stretch my legs out on a subway or bus, but only stupid people would think that means I'm not allowed to stretch my legs out on a subway or bus.

 

I'm sorry, but saying it's stupid to be informed of the proper procedure and abide by that procedure is among the most idiotic arguments I've ever seen.

 

Also, I never said I expected riders to know the SBS rules, but I did assume the bus operators do! Thank you for making me realize I was wrong about that.

 

He never called you stupid. He just said part of what you were saying made you "look" stupid. The main thing here is this. You should have asked the driver what was up. Just because the SBS information states that you should enter the front if you need a transfer does not mean its required, or necessary. Besides, if the driver told you to enter the back, just do as requested, and ask questions later. Exceptions are made all the time.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Wow... Some thread... lol... Well I generally don't bother running for the local buses. If I miss them I'll just wait for the next one. The only time that I have problems usually is on the X10 because they come so early sometimes. I mean if the guy is almost 10 minutes early on the express bus and I get there early and he's pulled in I would run for him and expect him to hold the bus seeing that he's pretty early and the next one may be a 20 - 30 minute wait. If they run every 20 - 30 minutes, one shouldn't have to show up any more than 10 minutes early for that bus. Anything over that is just too early. I think some of this will be straightened out with bus tracking though. :cool:

 

As for the SBS, I agree with the B/Os. They run frequent enough in most cases that you can wait for the next one. You should have your ticket ready when the bus arrives, not be getting the ticket when the bus pulls in. It defeats the whole purpose of paying before you board, since the idea is to save time from having to wait for people to pay and then board. Then the other thing that usually happens is that once one person runs and the B/O holds the bus, then a swarm of other folks come and the next thing you know the bus is packed and delayed. Screws up the spacing if you ask me.

 

There is nothing that pisses me than people that board that don't have their fare ready or that board and hold the bus up taking their sweet time getting on after the B/O has held the bus for them. :mad:

[FamousNYLover]

It not only M15 SBS.

I have seen Bx12 SBS Passengers who paid with coins at Coin Fare Collectors board throught center or rear doors and walk to front to get a transfer, including Metro-North UniTicket holders.

 

If bus is crowded and while wheelchair are being drop off/pick up, passenger with Coin POP or Metro-North UniTicket patiently wait at front door.

[youngblaze]

My thing is: if you ain't in the bus stand when I come in, or finish loading, I'm leaving... without any hesitation. If you miss the bus, that's on you. It seems like the folks who get on the bus after you let them after you're not supposed to, are the ones who bitch and moan about nothing. I rather just keep it pushing.

 

Glad I'm not the only one who notices that.

 

Nonetheless this thread is full of epicWIN got a great laugh reading through this...thanks fellas haha.