NICE Planned Service/Schedule Changes

[Tom Meadow]

 

 

 

 

 

 

:

 

 

 

So I see the n2/8 coming back (meaning Solages could have had something to do with this sudden finding of money), but Rockville Centre is mentioned there, so it could mean the n14 as well though that would be a severe waste of money for NICE.

 

I don't think it's the n14 it's probably the n17 that's coming back.Why would they put Baldwin and Freeport on there.

[Tom Meadow]

I take that back it has nothing to do with Freeport

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Here's the entire article from News12:

 

 

So I see the n2/8 coming back (meaning Solages could have had something to do with this sudden finding of money), but Rockville Centre is mentioned there, so it could mean the n14 as well though that would be a severe waste of money for NICE.

 

When the n14 was taken over by All-Island Taxi, the fare was increased to $4.00, and one or two runs were outright eliminated. So right now it costs less to run. Furthermore, it could attract some of its current customers from the area during the rush hour, in addition to maintain part of the n14 ridership. If they managed to get 50 riders, they'll still be more efficient over the NICE operation, and All-Island Taxi would negate whatever money they lost running the route. The Rockville Centre reference will probably be for the n17. 

 

I still want to know what is to be restored in Baldwin. Baldwin was left untouched the whole time.

[DS4Ever]

Man lucky Suburbans pay a cheap ride...one reason i should dislike TLC evn more

[checkmatechamp13]

I still want to know what is to be restored in Baldwin. Baldwin was left untouched the whole time.

 

The n16 was cut south of RVC (the Foxhurst Road portion) a few years ago. That's the only thing I can think of.

[NY1635]

When the n14 was taken over by All-Island Taxi, the fare was increased to $4.00, and one or two runs were outright eliminated. So right now it costs less to run. Furthermore, it could attract some of its current customers from the area during the rush hour, in addition to maintain part of the n14 ridership. If they managed to get 50 riders, they'll still be more efficient over the NICE operation, and All-Island Taxi would negate whatever money they lost running the route. The Rockville Centre reference will probably be for the n17. 

 

I still want to know what is to be restored in Baldwin. Baldwin was left untouched the whole time.

 

Baldwin most likely wants the n35 Westbury trips to be restored instead of short turns at the HTC on Weekdays.

[MTA Orion Bus]

When the n14 was taken over by All-Island Taxi, the fare was increased to $4.00, and one or two runs were outright eliminated. So right now it costs less to run. Furthermore, it could attract some of its current customers from the area during the rush hour, in addition to maintain part of the n14 ridership. If they managed to get 50 riders, they'll still be more efficient over the NICE operation, and All-Island Taxi would negate whatever money they lost running the route. The Rockville Centre reference will probably be for the n17. 

 

I still want to know what is to be restored in Baldwin. Baldwin was left untouched the whole time.

Clearly, we're not getting the whole picture from the articles, then again, when does NICE give us the whole picture anyway. I say leave the taxi company with the n14 runs and let them deal with it as opposed to the county. The n17 is a waste of money too if they decide to bring that back. Quite frankly, with maintenance as bad as it is and conditions as bad as they are, put any available money towards that instead of bringing these routes back.

 

i am sure pinepower will have a boner after hearing mangano putting 3 million into restoring some routes.

He's too busy bitching about the LIRR and their parking lot restrictions when he can't even afford a car (or a life for that matter) and lives off taxpayer's money, refusing to contribute to society. Baldwin was mentioned in the article, but instead of restoring service, in honor of PinePowerLI, we should protest for the elimination of the n35.

 

Man lucky Suburbans pay a cheap ride...one reason i should dislike TLC evn more

It's not only Nassau County, I think it's every where. I know the prices went up when the TLC took over some defunct MTA routes in 2010.

[DS4Ever]

Tell me about it the TLC are vultures (especially if the drivers are Dominicans) ...well as the TLC commissioner is Dominican what can we expect

 

I guess that may be the reason why in NYC many prefer the bus or subway since $2.75 is a bargain next to $8 bucks (three times the charge of a normal MTA ride)

 

Also i can see now CLEARLY why in Nassau and Suffolk people opt for the LIRR since its fares are true bargains. ..$3 from the gap between Rockville Centre and Babylon .etc

 

I guess taxis tend to be a major underdog with passenger counts next to powerhouse MTA...my consideration for a suburbian taxi is to have its cars packed that is carpool and win up to 4x a regular charge and thus get better revenue. ..now i feel really bad for the taxis. ..heck i remember a taxi driver in Montauk last August telling me that it charge me $5 from the RR station to the Gazebo which wasn't really far compared to what he exaggerated the walking

[Joel Up Front]

The n16 was cut south of RVC (the Foxhurst Road portion) a few years ago. That's the only thing I can think of.

The N4 and 35 stop about a quarter mile away from Silver Lake.  I'm surprised it lasted that long.

[NY1635]

The N4 and 35 stop about a quarter mile away from Silver Lake.  I'm surprised it lasted that long.

 

Do people even use the bus South of Merrick, after the n4 and n35 stop?

[checkmatechamp13]

I guess taxis tend to be a major underdog with passenger counts next to powerhouse MTA...my consideration for a suburbian taxi is to have its cars packed that is carpool and win up to 4x a regular charge and thus get better revenue. ..now i feel really bad for the taxis. ..heck i remember a taxi driver in Montauk last August telling me that it charge me $5 from the RR station to the Gazebo which wasn't really far compared to what he exaggerated the walking

 

Dude, these guys have to make a living. If somebody's getting into the car and he's taking the time to drive them (even if it's a short distance), $5 is reasonable. Here in NYC, the last I recall, it was $2.50 for the initial charge, and $2.50 per mile or something like that. It's probably a little more nowadays.

 

As for exaggerating the walking, well, that's where it's up to the person to do their research on the area beforehand.

 

I mean, people have to do research in general. I hear stories of whenever the LIRR has a problem, there's people paying ridiculous amounts of money to travel along a route that parallels a bus line.

[N6 Limited]

That's true. I remember seeing on the news one day when the long Beach branch was suspended, this lady was on camera in Mineola saying that she was "stranded" , meanwhile they were literally standing around the corner from the N15 stop.

[MTA Orion Bus]

Here's the announcement video:

 

 

 

Also, you're welcome for posting the entire news article instead of just a snippet as well.

[Joel Up Front]

The news article was actually that long, but there was another one written only about five hours ago:

 

 

Nassau officials said Wednesday it will take several weeks to undo last month’s NICE Bus service cuts and made no guarantees that the $3 million needed would be there to keep the routes next year and beyond.

A bipartisan coalition of Nassau lawmakers, led by Republican County Executive Edward Mangano, Wednesday announced the plan to spend $3 million to restore some or all of the 11 bus lines eliminated by the Nassau Inter-County Express as the agency sought to shrink a $7.5 million budget deficit.

 

“Collectively, we all want to see our transportation system as robust as possible,” Mangano said at the Mineola news conference. “We want a transportation system that our ridership can depend on.”

Mangano did not offer a specific timeline for the restorations to occur but said that over the next two weeks NICE officials will develop a plan and present it to the county, which will open it up to public comment before finalizing it.

NICE CEO Michael Setzer said that there was a lot to be done before the eliminated service could come back, including hiring new drivers, recertifying decommissioned buses and working out some labor issues with unions.

“It can’t happen overnight,” said Setzer, who joined lawmakers in celebrating the service restoration, despite previously saying that he thought any additional money that came to NICE would be best spent on the county’s busiest routes. “We like to put service out and carry passengers, rather than take it back in. So we’re pleased.”

Nassau officials did not specify which routes would return, but Legis. Kevan Abrahams (D-Freeport) mentioned Valley Stream, Elmont, Franklin Square, Baldwin and Rockville Centre as communities whose routes Democratic lawmakers have fought to restore.

“This is a priority for all Nassau County residents, not just the ones that use the bus service,” said Abrahams, noting that Nassau residents count on buses to bring their employees to work and their students to school. “These are all things that have a ripple effect . . . We want to build a bus system that’s going to be great.”

 

Mangano said he would use $3 million from a just-discovered $45 million county surplus from 2015 to restore the bus cuts, while the remaining $42 million would serve as a backstop in case Nassau does not meet NIFA-imposed spending or revenue targets.

 

But, Mangano warned, Democratic and Republican lawmakers will have to work together to make sure the funding is there next year to keep the restored routes. He said all ideas to fund NICE, including through bus shelter advertising and a fee on Uber vehicles, “are on the table.”

Edited February 11, 2016 by Joel Up Front

[DetSMART45]

This whole thing smells.  Appears to be lots of blowback from riders has caused this and the politicians are trying to "save face" to use this later in campaigning.  Eddie may not be up for re-election until 2017, but he's trying to distance himself from the whole thing.

 

Just from initial research:

1.  Wanted to find out where this $45 million suddenly came from.  Under "Transparency" on Nassau website, nothing recent to get info from.  Surely, if there was going to be some sort of surplus on the horizon, it would be shouted from the rooftops at least there.

 

2.  Googled "NIFA" to ascertain what scope of influence they have on this.  It's basically the big contract approval agency for the county under state jurisdiction, so started nosing around.  Stumbled onto these tidbits:

 

--The NIFA Board, at its meeting on December 4, 2015 had a request to give Transdev $15,343,393 for contract year four.  This was "approved" by the Transit Advisory Committee as well, whose makeup (as far as I can find online) has a bunch of Eddie-appointees and one bus rider.  Not surprisingly, you cannot find anything online about their activities, other than the creation of the Committee and the 2014 placement of an actual bus rider onto it.  No minutes, items for discussion, nothing -- not even a way of contact.

 

The purpose of this $15 million amendment, according to the PDF, is the same as in previous years' amendment approvals (additional money going to Transdev over and above the original contract amounts): "This was deemed necessary to provide an increased level of service for both general ridership and paratransit service."

Source, pages 3 and 4: http://www.nifa.state.ny.us/minutes/2015/MMBoard1204.pdf

 

This was approved 6-0.

 

--Just days later, on December 7, 2015, NIFA rejected the 2016 budget, and said the following:

 

While the revised budget submitted to NIFA on November 30 included $16 million in fee increases, NIFA board members have expressed concern that sales tax revenue may fall $10.7 million short of County projections. In addition, board members have stated the County potentially underestimated police overtime costs by $9.2 million.

Source: http://www.nifa.state.ny.us/docs/20151207PressRelease.pdf

 

IIRC, NICE is funded (on the county-side) by sales tax revenue.  So if there's looking to be a shortfall, that's going to affect NICE funding, which in future would be even more reliant upon state and federal funding, which Eddie has admitted was not easy to procure.

 

Eddie the Magician just pulled a $45 million rabbit from his hat.  Oddly, there was no hat or rabbit, let alone a magic show scheduled to reveal this "windfall" within the recent past.  And you know as well as I do:  When there's a "stash" of money found by politicians, they're out at a microphone within minutes of it being discovered, ready to puff out their chest, pontificate and congratulate themselves, and eager to find ways of making it disappear from the treasury.

[Hound]

When the n14 was taken over by All-Island Taxi, the fare was increased to $4.00, and one or two runs were outright eliminated. So right now it costs less to run. Furthermore, it could attract some of its current customers from the area during the rush hour, in addition to maintain part of the n14 ridership. If they managed to get 50 riders, they'll still be more efficient over the NICE operation, and All-Island Taxi would negate whatever money they lost running the route. The Rockville Centre reference will probably be for the n17. 

 

I still want to know what is to be restored in Baldwin. Baldwin was left untouched the whole time.

What about Franklin Square? There wasn't anything eliminated there.

[mac5689]

This whole thing smells.  Appears to be lots of blowback from riders has caused this and the politicians are trying to "save face" to use this later in campaigning.  Eddie may not be up for re-election until 2017, but he's trying to distance himself from the whole thing.

 

Just from initial research:

1.  Wanted to find out where this $45 million suddenly came from.  Under "Transparency" on Nassau website, nothing recent to get info from.  Surely, if there was going to be some sort of surplus on the horizon, it would be shouted from the rooftops at least there.

 

2.  Googled "NIFA" to ascertain what scope of influence they have on this.  It's basically the big contract approval agency for the county under state jurisdiction, so started nosing around.  Stumbled onto these tidbits:

 

--The NIFA Board, at its meeting on December 4, 2015 had a request to give Transdev $15,343,393 for contract year four.  This was "approved" by the Transit Advisory Committee as well, whose makeup (as far as I can find online) has a bunch of Eddie-appointees and one bus rider.  Not surprisingly, you cannot find anything online about their activities, other than the creation of the Committee and the 2014 placement of an actual bus rider onto it.  No minutes, items for discussion, nothing -- not even a way of contact.

 

The purpose of this $15 million amendment, according to the PDF, is the same as in previous years' amendment approvals (additional money going to Transdev over and above the original contract amounts): "This was deemed necessary to provide an increased level of service for both general ridership and paratransit service."

Source, pages 3 and 4: http://www.nifa.state.ny.us/minutes/2015/MMBoard1204.pdf

 

This was approved 6-0.

 

--Just days later, on December 7, 2015, NIFA rejected the 2016 budget, and said the following:

 

While the revised budget submitted to NIFA on November 30 included $16 million in fee increases, NIFA board members have expressed concern that sales tax revenue may fall $10.7 million short of County projections. In addition, board members have stated the County potentially underestimated police overtime costs by $9.2 million.

Source: http://www.nifa.state.ny.us/docs/20151207PressRelease.pdf

 

IIRC, NICE is funded (on the county-side) by sales tax revenue.  So if there's looking to be a shortfall, that's going to affect NICE funding, which in future would be even more reliant upon state and federal funding, which Eddie has admitted was not easy to procure.

 

Eddie the Magician just pulled a $45 million rabbit from his hat.  Oddly, there was no hat or rabbit, let alone a magic show scheduled to reveal this "windfall" within the recent past.  And you know as well as I do:  When there's a "stash" of money found by politicians, they're out at a microphone within minutes of it being discovered, ready to puff out their chest, pontificate and congratulate themselves, and eager to find ways of making it disappear from the treasury.

 

You are aware that the state just gave Nassau some money for transportation I'm not exactly sure how much it was since it was a split with Suffolk, though I heard that it was around 3 to 4 million.  While I doubt it was 45 million, I'm sure they don't actually have 45 million since if they did, they wouldn't be talking about finding additional revenue to fund the restored lines for next year since that much money would fund the routes for a few years. (So if they did have 45 million the only reason to warn about finding more funding for the restored lines would be that they are putting only enough to fund the restored lines for a year and putting the rest into the rest of the service which is the opposite of what they are saying)

 

However just because you didn't find anything on Nassau's website doesn't mean that they are lying, depending on who is maintaining the website it could show that they don't have their site updated up to the minute.

 

 

Since it's a Committee maybe somebody felt that it wasn't of importance, especially if it isn't attached like say to the Legislature or some other body of government , there therefore the Transit Advisory Committee didn't warrant an online presence. I mean remember it cost money to have a website. Unless you of cost you go the free route, though those probably don't allow you the space have all the minutes and whatever else you want. And whose going to spend money on something someone deems unimportant. . 

 

 

 

 

[NY1635]

What about Franklin Square? There wasn't anything eliminated there.

 

They lost the n2/8, if you consider Meacham to be in Franklin Square and not N.Valley Stream or Elmont.

[Joel Up Front]

What would restoring a route that probably carried 3 people at most even do?

[DetSMART45]

You are aware that the state just gave Nassau some money for transportation I'm not exactly sure how much it was since it was a split with Suffolk, though I heard that it was around 3 to 4 million.  While I doubt it was 45 million, I'm sure they don't actually have 45 million since if they did, they wouldn't be talking about finding additional revenue to fund the restored lines for next year since that much money would fund the routes for a few years. (So if they did have 45 million the only reason to warn about finding more funding for the restored lines would be that they are putting only enough to fund the restored lines for a year and putting the rest into the rest of the service which is the opposite of what they are saying)

 

However just because you didn't find anything on Nassau's website doesn't mean that they are lying, depending on who is maintaining the website it could show that they don't have their site updated up to the minute.

 

 

Since it's a Committee maybe somebody felt that it wasn't of importance, especially if it isn't attached like say to the Legislature or some other body of government , there therefore the Transit Advisory Committee didn't warrant an online presence. I mean remember it cost money to have a website. Unless you of cost you go the free route, though those probably don't allow you the space have all the minutes and whatever else you want. And whose going to spend money on something someone deems unimportant. . 

 

 

 

 

I am going by the article that JoelUpFront posted from News12.  The article available by Google search (a bit different than the one posted above) begins as such:

Nassau County will be restoring some of the 11 NICE bus routes that were cut in January due to a budget shortage.

County Executive Ed Mangano says his budget office ended 2015 with an unexpected $45 million surplus. He says an agreement was made with Legislature leaders to use $3 million to restore many, but not all, of the routes.

 

I wasn't inferring that $45 million would be going to NICE, but it's pretty plain by both articles that Eddie wants to take $3 mil from that pot to begin with and then go back to it if NIFA has problems with any of his other budget items including NICE.

 

For my previous response, I confined my surface research to anything pointing to how this "windfall" could have surfaced.  The article explicitly mentions NIFA, and went according to what their recent activities were.  It's extremely surprising that, following chronologically, Eddie proposes a budget and sends it to NIFA (Nov 30), at next NIFA meeting Nassau wants $15 million to go to Transdev (Dec 4) while at the same time cutting $3-4 million toward the $7.5 million debt already owed (to become effective January 2016), NIFA says budget is not complete because of underestimations (Dec 7), NICE cuts happen (January), then all of a sudden $45 million shows up from which $3 mil can go back to NICE (Feb 8).

 

Read the "official" announcement here -- posted February 11 -- and scroll down below it for all of the previous releases, where nothing was mentioned of the "windfall".  Somehow, I don't think at least 2 or 3 articles written by News12 would continue to refer to the $45 mil if it was in error, given that the one I found via Google was updated at 4pm Feb 10 and that cash is mentioned at the top, available to subscribers and non-subscribers alike.

 

As to the committee, I think it's pretty important that if their input is used to justify/recommend spending $15 million that they should be held accountable.  If all that they are is a citizens forum  which relays information about the system to the county department which is the responsible party for deciding expenditures, I can see them not needing transparency-type rules applied to them.  But in the proposal the county submitted to NIFA, they are cited as a "credible witness", if you will, so their activities should be visible to the public.  And as to website costs, inclusion on the county's website is not going to cost thousands of dollars.  And I think that this committee's actions should have the sunshine placed on them, so that NICE users can contact them (as "expert witnesses") when the county makes service decisions in the future.  If they have the power to influence spending millions of dollars, they should have the customers' backs first and foremost, since those customers' spending habits (via sales tax) fund the system to begin with.

[B35 via Church]

General Question:

 

Which Nassau County bus routes do any/all of you believe should be brought back?

(I'm not solely talking about the routes that were just cut not too long ago, but any renditions of old routes (i.e. MSBA/LIB)...)

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Like I mentioned before in another thread, I would bring back the old n2/n8 routing (but extended to Hempstead Transit Center). However, instead of running until 10 PM, the n2 would run until about 8-9 PM, and the n8 rush hours only.

[B35 via Church]

Like I mentioned before in another thread, I would bring back the old n2/n8 routing (but extended to Hempstead Transit Center).

However, instead of running until 10 PM, the n2 would run until about 8-9 PM, and the n8 rush hours only.

Didn't see that particular post of yours & I don't feel like searching right now..... So I'll ask here.

 

Are you referring to NICE's combined n2/8 routing that just got axed, or the n2/8 as separate routes (pre-nice)?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Didn't see that particular post of yours & I don't feel like searching right now..... So I'll ask here.

 

Are you referring to NICE's combined n2/8 routing that just got axed, or the n2/8 as separate routes (pre-nice)?

They would be separate routes (pre-nice form) to an extent. The n8 would go up Meachem Avenue instead of Franklin Avenue to get to/from Hempstead Turnpike from Dutch Broadway.

Edited February 13, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[B35 via Church]

They would be separate routes (pre-nice form) to an extent.

 

The n8 would go up Meachem Avenue instead of Franklin Avenue to get to/from Hempstead Turnpike from Dutch Broadway.

- Alright, so you'd have the n8 going to Hempstead; basically a tweak of what the MTA wanted to do w/ the route....

 

- Would you still have the n2 going to Jamaica, or not?

(if so, would it be on a part time basis, or a full time basis?)