NICE Planned Service/Schedule Changes

[Marctalky1]

What is DSS?

 

Department of Social Services.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[nostalgia]

Interesting but disastrous. A review of your analysis and my opinion of the changes and your analysis:

 

-n27: Retain the service all the damn way, I honestly see more, much more people on the n27 than the n23, it's basically like making sure a herd of people gather at Roslyn LIRR to wait for the n27. This is ridiculous!

 

And honestly, reduced service is completely acceptable, however the realignments sucks, especially the n23/27 thing and n24/78/79 thing...

 

By short turning the N27 at Roslyn, NICE plans to drop two buses from the schedule. They should build the timetable with Roslyn as the control point for the N23 and N27 to ensure a good connection. The truncated N27 has to meet the north and south bound N23.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[nostalgia]

Honestly, they should consider dropping n80/81/73 to peak only instead of this high ridership line change. The changes are run by Edward Mangano and Peter Schmitt, the two corrupt, dysfunctional and stubborn [pardon me but] idiots who don't understand sh1t. They just want people to drive, they just do! I live in Queens yet I am busy looking at Nassau's system because I have friends there who rely on this bus system. This n23/27 thing is not gonna work, it's gonna be choas and tons of standees while the n80/81/73 is running with so many seats open simply because they run thru Mangano's chemical filled district and Schmitt's auto-centric district. :mad: :mad: :mad: If I were the next county executive, I'd tell the to come back to Nassau and I'd hand that money over to them, and approve the Roosevelt Field Mall Expansion, make sure the Nassau Coliseum get rebuilt, and make sure I get revenue, revenue, revenue from other sources, and revitalize Belmont Racetrack to be an Empire City Casino II. *Takes a deep breathe* Back on track...

 

Note: This anger is directed at Mangano's administation, not anyone on this forum/you.

 

I moved out of Nassau County in 1973 and moved into Westchester County last October. The political landscape changed while I was gone. I'm happy to be back!]

 

I don't know anything about Mangano nor Schmitt. The facts to me are 1) the MTA wanted to eliminate service and 2) the county hired Veolia and agreed to pay a subsidy they didn't want to pay the MTA. Service is being reduced on some lines and increased on others.

 

Please fill in some details because I don't understand your anger. If they want people to drive, why was NICE created?:confused:

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[nostalgia]

Well, you should've stayed in the better suburb that has potential of NYC: Westchester. The political landscape worsened out there in Nassau and Suffolk Counties.

 

The fact is that Nassau is paying much lower rate to their transit agency than Suffolk, Westchester, maybe even Rockland County! The is simply asking for enough money, which is slightly more [i believe $27-32 Million] than what Westchester or Suffolk [if I remember correctly $19-26 Million] pay their transit service, to keep the existing service (As of Q1/Q2 2011) intact. However, Mangano refuses and got his wish of a private operator..., all suck at providing Public Transit, And Nassau is paying Veolia much lower than they would pay to the , a huge $7-$8 million difference.

 

If Mangano has his way around the law and force people to drive, he would do it, I have little to no doubt! However, the ADA requires Public Transit available to the disabled, so Nassau has to provide Able Ride and Bus Lines. This is why I am angry, Mangano and Schmitt are doing this in favor of their local constituents, and side of the line, not Nassau in General.

 

And besides, Nassau once had $400+ million for a new Nassau Coliseum, where did that funding go huh? HIDDEN! Because Mangano wants to cover up sh1t after this Long Island Bus -> NICE Fiasco! HA! That's why I say Nassau's Government is corrupt, stealing tax payer's money, dysfunctional and stubborn, Bi-Partisan my a$$, both the donkey and elephant are pure sh1t, :mad::mad::mad:, pardon my language!

 

Paying Veolia less than the MTA for more service than the MTA would provide seems like a good thing. Your beef is Magano is protecting his "local" constituents though he is supposed to look out over the entire county. You should contact the the NY attorney general or US attorney to investigate. They've gone after Wall Street execs and I know they would go after corrupt public officials.

[N6 Limited]

Paying Veolia less than the MTA for more service than the MTA would provide seems like a good thing.

 

Right, some people are pissed, as if they have 10's of millions of dollars to throw around. I don't get it.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[N6 Limited]

By short turning the N27 at Roslyn, NICE plans to drop two buses from the schedule. They should build the timetable with Roslyn as the control point for the N23 and N27 to ensure a good connection. The truncated N27 has to meet the north and south bound N23.

That's what they plan to do.

 

Interesting but disastrous. A review of your analysis and my opinion of the changes and your analysis:

 

-n15/22/22A/22L/22X: Yep, basically they should be kept the way they are, in routing form, and pretty much logical.

 

-n23: Honestly, I think this route should stay the way it is and have every other bus end at Roosevelt Field Mall, the change for it to replace the n27 is ridiculous, at least kinda.

 

-n24: Well, even though it is technically "cost saving", however delays would increase, service quality will tumble dramatically. I'd never ever touch the n24, in my personal opinion, it shouldn't even go to 60 C.L./East Meadow, it should just simply terminate at Roosevelt Field, and that's it! If you ever rode the n24 on Jericho Tpke., you'll understand, the n22 pack is just like a train compared to the n24 which is like a train. I think this change is crazy!

 

-n78/79: Keep it going to Mineola Intermodal Terminal, just make the n78 short turn at Hicksville and make it interline with another route, like the n80/81.

 

-n27: Retain the service all the damn way, I honestly see more, much more people on the n27 than the n23, it's basically like making sure a heard of people gather at Roslyn LIRR to wait for the n27. This is ridiculous!

 

And honestly, reduced service is completely acceptable, however the realignments sucks, especially the n23/27 thing and n24/78/79 thing...

 

Yes, the N22 is much faster, that's why it has higher ridership and they're putting the express on that route.

 

The N78/79 has ridership West of Hicksville LIRR, and different riders East of Hicksville LIRR. Since most people transfer at that point anyway extending the N24 makes sense.

 

If you look at the chart, as also provided by N6L on another thread : [ http://www.mta.info/mta/news/hearings/pdf/bluebook_libus.pdf ] : the routes Veolia is touching is the High Ridership routes, which is stupid! I don't trust Veolia's data anymore. More service = deteriorating service. And it really seems like Nassau will have chaos post April-08th-2012, no doubt about it!

 

Heck I may call an audit as well.

 

Did we look at the same PDF? What about Veolia's data has you questioning the service adjustments? You do realize that most changes are during middays and off peak times when the majority of ridership on said routes are not riding said routes? The N6 is by far the busiest route, but there are times where the bus is not packed and you can get a seat. Their data, takes time of day, the stops used, etc to make changes. For example, in the case of the N27, if no one gets on or off the bus between Hillside Ave and The Roslyn train station then the route does not have to travel along Roslyn Road and a rerouted N23 basically serves the same purpose.

 

This impending "Chaos" is much better than having half the routes completely eliminated.

 

Basically Nassau is broke and they didn't see a reason to raise taxes on an overtaxed population to have empty buses rolling around when the system could be run more efficiently.

[Joel Up Front]

What is DSS?

 

The Department of Social Services building for the county in Uniondale. LIB/NICE maps refer to it as DSS.

[Marctalky1]

Does the N20 need more service Middays east of Roslyn?

[Amtrak7]

Does the N20 need more service Middays east of Roslyn?

 

Yes. Most of the time I see the route the Hicksville trips are way more crowded than the short turns. On Saturdays some of the short turns can leave Flushing with as little as 5 people on them, while the Hicksivlles have a seated load at a minimum.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Marctalky1]

N22 locals during rush hours should start at mineola starting april 8th.

[N6 Limited]

Nassau is not broke as one may think, the Empty busses aren't the one getting cut and moved around, the full ones are seeing the modifications. I can understand the N22 thing, but the N24 is way too long for a local/suburban bus route, it is gonna be literally a 2 hour+ route, purely ridiculous! I even have opinions as that the N24 should end at Mineola Intermodal instead of Roosevelt Field/60 Charles L.

Sure they are, many routes are getting reduced mid-day frequencies. The N24 will be about the same length as the N22. According to existing schedules the N24 takes an hour from Jamaica to Roosevelt Field. The n78/79 takes about 25 mins from Roosevelt Field to Hicksville.

 

And obviously you're not taking ridership patterns into account. If the N24 ended at Mineola, then it's ridership would drop tremendously.

As for the N23/27, both routes have people traveling from points other than Roslyn LIRR, Veolia's data is flawed and inaccurate, the (MTA)'s data is accurate, the (MTA)'s data is what I see as well. If Veolia is a person, I'm gonna get em' tested to see what it is smoking.

 

Really, the majority of people travels from Glen Cove/points North of Roslyn LIRR to Roosevelt Field on the N27, this'll only jam pack the N23 afterwards and will inconvenient the people in Glen Cove. What I see is, Veolia is trying to loose the ridership so in 2013, they're gonna shove more service reductions... And more... And more...

 

What about their data is flawed and inaccurate? The MTA didn't even want to merge the M and V trains until they had a budget problem. They still haven't addressed the South East Queens bus connectivity issue. The only route LIB had modified lately was the N35. And the N15's Washington Ave/County Seat Dr routing outside of court hours. They don't seem to take ridership patterns into account, just passenger COUNTS. Which means nothing if you don't know the reason for the counts.The majority of N24 riders are going to/from the Mall, cutting it to Mineola will make ridership drop. Extending it to Hicksville will actually increase ridership because there will be more overlapping trips and turn over.

Edited March 14, 2012 by N6 Limited

[N6 Limited]

http://nicebus.com/Maps_and_Schedules/Route_Information/index.html

 

Summary

 

While many riders may not notice a change, others who use midday and weekend service on some routes will be impacted. Still other riders, especially commuters to Jamaica and Flushing, will enjoy new Express service. We believe that passengers will appreciate the new Express and other routes added to improve mobility with passengers on busy routes. We are not proposing to eliminate any whole routes. Fares are not increasing and Able-Ride service is not being changed. Wherever there are changes, the information above describes alternatives and options for passengers.

 

Our service designers focused on the routes that are least used by customers and are thus the most expensive to operate. Running virtually empty buses is very expensive and requires large subsidies from the County. We are committed to ending that practice because it is too costly for the County in its current financial situation. We also combined some routes in certain times of the day, again to minimize the number of buses operating with very few people on them.

 

In summary, these proposed adjustments represent our best judgment for achieving the savings and balanced budget that are required of us. Please know that there have been numerous improvements since NICE bus began operating on January 1, including more reliable, on time service, cleaner buses and facilities, and improved customer service. While the system isn’t perfect, we will continue to add improvements with each passing month.

 

Please note that new timetables will be distributed on buses, in transit centers and on the website in mid-March for whatever the final slate of service changes and improvements to be implemented on April 8th are determined to be.

 

A few people need to read the bold print several times.

 

 

Yes. Most of the time I see the route the Hicksville trips are way more crowded than the short turns. On Saturdays some of the short turns can leave Flushing with as little as 5 people on them, while the Hicksivlles have a seated load at a minimum.

I think they're going to "fix" that problem on Saturdays:

 

n20: Peak service will operate every 5 to 10 minutes. Midday and Saturday service will run every 20 minutes from Great Neck/Roslyn to Flushing. Saturday service to Hicksville will not change. The n20 Sunday service will run every 30 minutes from Great Neck/Roslyn to Flushing. Hicksville service will still operate every 60 minutes. Please consult your schedule for departure changes.

 

Currently combined N20/N21 service is every 15 mins. N21 by itself is every hour. N20 to Hicksville every hour..

 

So I'm not sure if they will have N20's to Great Neck/Roslyn every 20 mins, and throw in a N20 to Hicksville every hour. Or if they will have 3 buses an hour with one of them going to Hicksville.

Edited March 15, 2012 by N6 Limited

[lilbluefoxie]

they also managed to keep a lot of the smaller routes, like the 14, 26, 57, 58, and 62.

 

We are also getting a route back, the 17. The way I see it is, its not bad at all, it coulda been worse. Its not the route slashing that everyone was afraid of.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[N6 Limited]

I always take ridership patterns instead of passenger counts, this is why I oppose the n24/78/79 move and n23/27 move by Veolia. A lot of people actually get off the n24 to walk to Hillside for the n22, the ride is slow as hell! Well, I'd keep it at RFM however still, the n78/79 should stay as the Old Country Road corridor bus.

 

And ridership increase won't happen, people on Jericho are already sick and tired of the n24, now a whole new bunch of people are gonna get pissed off, the Old Country Road guys. Do u actually ride Nassau's Busses? And have conversations with other passengers?

 

 

I say, that isn't true, I've rode and rode and rode the routes, I have zero clue how they obtain their information other than the Expresses. Certainly, no riders like the moves I mentioned, none!

 

Ridership will increase because obviously it's going to take existing N78/N79 passengers between Mineola and Hicksville. The N24 is slow because of crappy Jericho Turnpike, not because it has a particular route number. Passengers still have the option to transfer to the N22 at any point that they used to.

 

I do ride Nassau buses, not as extensively as I used to. I usually just have conversations when we're annoyed about being flagged or if a bus is late.

 

What have riders said to you about not liking any of the changes? Some riders didn't like the idea of NICE taking over either, they didn't want their buses terminating at the Queens border, and routes like the N6 being reduced to 30 min headways during rush and all this other nonsense, many are not informed in the first place.

[nostalgia]

Ridership will increase because obviously it's going to take existing N78/N79 passengers between Mineola and Hicksville. The N24 is slow because of crappy Jericho Turnpike, not because it has a particular route number. Passengers still have the option to transfer to the N22 at any point that they used to.

 

I do ride Nassau buses, not as extensively as I used to. I usually just have conversations when we're annoyed about being flagged or if a bus is late.

 

What have riders said to you about not liking any of the changes? Some riders didn't like the idea of NICE taking over either, they didn't want their buses terminating at the Queens border, and routes like the N6 being reduced to 30 min headways during rush and all this other nonsense, many are not informed in the first place.

 

Why does the N24 go to East Meadow in the first place? Can the N46-49 be restructured to pick up these passengers. With all the complaints I've read about slow service, short turning some buses at Roosevelt Field would seem to improve service.

[checkmatechamp13]

What about their data is flawed and inaccurate? The MTA didn't even want to merge the M and V trains until they had a budget problem. They still haven't addressed the South East Queens bus connectivity issue. The only route LIB had modified lately was the N35. And the N15's Washington Ave/County Seat Dr routing outside of court hours. They don't seem to take ridership patterns into account, just passenger COUNTS. Which means nothing if you don't know the reason for the counts.The majority of N24 riders are going to/from the Mall, cutting it to Mineola will make ridership drop. Extending it to Hicksville will actually increase ridership because there will be more overlapping trips and turn over.

 

Obviously it'll increase the ridership on the N24 number (longer route = more passengers), but the question is: How many riders are actually going from points east of the RFM to points west of it? Is it going to be like the N78/79 at Hicksville, where everybody says that there's a ton of turnover?

 

I don't really see how this saves money. What they could do instead is reroute the N78/79 to Hempstead instead of extending the N43 there.

 

Currently combined N20/N21 service is every 15 mins. N21 by itself is every hour. N20 to Hicksville every hour..

 

So I'm not sure if they will have N20's to Great Neck/Roslyn every 20 mins, and throw in a N20 to Hicksville every hour. Or if they will have 3 buses an hour with one of them going to Hicksville.

 

I'm pretty sure it'll be the second option. That's why they said "Service between Flushing and Roslyn will be every 20 minutes". If they were going to add a Hicksville run, it would be down to 15 minutes.

 

Do u actually ride Nassau's Busses?

 

 

Considering his username, I'm pretty sure it's obvious he does.

[nostalgia]

Obviously it'll increase the ridership on the N24 number (longer route = more passengers), but the question is: How many riders are actually going from points east of the RFM to points west of it? Is it going to be like the N78/79 at Hicksville, where everybody says that there's a ton of turnover?

 

I don't really see how this saves money. What they could do instead is reroute the N78/79 to Hempstead instead of extending the N43 there.

 

Mid-Island ran the N79 from Hempstead.

[N6 Limited]

Why does the N24 go to East Meadow in the first place? Can the N46-49 be restructured to pick up these passengers. With all the complaints I've read about slow service, short turning some buses at Roosevelt Field would seem to improve service.

I'm not sure exactly, there isn't many people on the East Meadow Trips. I guess that's why it will be rush hours only. They suggest taking the N51 when the N24 does not service East Meadow.

 

The service is slow because of Jericho Turnpike, a many times when the bus pulls over to a stop, it gets trapped there until there's a gap in traffic. That with the traffic signals create "NYC Bus syndrome", a lot of stationary moments. I used to work near Roosevelt Field and would go to Jamaica sometimes before work. One time I took the N24, I learned my lesson, N22 always!

 

Obviously it'll increase the ridership on the N24 number (longer route = more passengers), but the question is: How many riders are actually going from points east of the RFM to points west of it? Is it going to be like the N78/79 at Hicksville, where everybody says that there's a ton of turnover?

 

Exactly its obvious that it will increase ridership because the route will be longer and replace another route. That's what I was trying to say to Keystone. Anyway I'm sure there will be riders traveling east of Roosevelt Field, to access the stores on Old Country Road that previously was more difficult because no bus was timed to connect with the N78/N79. I used to take whichever bus was going to East Gate Blvd First from the Mall, and then walk east from Wendy's.

 

Keep in mind that the N24 will have the same headways to Hicksville so people may still walk, or if they're already on the N24 they can just stay on. Also, the N43's frequency will be increased to every 30 mins, that will make it easier to access the Source mall, Walmart, etc from the south side if one doesn't want to wait for the N24, as well as Target, Chillis, The Movie Theater, Sprint Store etc.

 

If there is a lot of turn over at the Mall, that's more money/ riders for the route. There is tons of turn over at the Hempstead Bus Terminal, N15, N35, N16, N40/N41.

I don't really see how this saves money. What they could do instead is reroute the N78/79 to Hempstead instead of extending the N43 there.

 

This is how it saves money. One of the issues is that ridership West of Hicksville LIRR is greater than Ridership East of Hicksville. By extending the N24, they keep the same headways up to the LIRR station. Now they can just have the N78 run peak hours only because they don't need it to maintain 30 min headways along Old Country Road anymore, the N24 handles that. The N79 can handle the new truncated route on 1 hour headways as it has previously done.

 

Now there is no overlap of redundant service Between Mineola and Roosevelt Field. N22, N24, N78/N79. (and N15). And no over service east of the Hicksville LIRR.

If you're at Mineola Terminal and you want to go to Roosevelt Field, now you have 2 routes to use instead of "4". If you Want to go past Roosevelt Field along Old Country Road than you have to use the N24. Those 2-5 people you saw on the N78 /N79 will now have to use a N24 that was always there in the first place, usually with seats available. Same routes and people served with less buses, and more utilization.

 

The n22, N24, N78, N79 provides that section of Old Country road with at least 10 buses an hour, during rush not including the N15, way over serviced. During the holiday season they'd all be conga lined with all the traffic. During non peak hours the N23 will go to the Mall and so, those passengers won't need to transfer at Mineola and there will be less need for service between those two points.

 

The N43 is being extended to Hempstead to Connect the N43 to more routes, and to replace the N16 short turns between Hempstead and NCC. Now, If a rider wants to go to NCC from Hempstead, they can take the N16, N35, N43. The N16 short turns before and after the semester ends are EMPTY and a complete waste of money. By extending the N43 they have another useful extension that serves riders even when school is not in session. You know how much it sucked for me to get to the Sprint Store or the Soruce Mall from Hempstead before they modified the N35? But now it still goes along Stewart Ave and NCC first, the N43 will go there directly after the Mall.

 

All these changes collectively save money and the routes "help" each other out. It takes into account where riders travel to/from and options they can use. Not the 1 person on the N73, but the hundreds/thousands of NCC students, Roosevelt Field Mall riders and transfer-ers, the 10's of thousands of Riders going to/from Jamaica/Flushing.

 

Mid-Island ran the N79 from Hempstead.

Do you know which route it took? Did it go to Mineola back then?

Edited March 16, 2012 by N6 Limited

[checkmatechamp13]

1) This is how it saves money. One of the issues is that ridership West of Hicksville LIRR is greater than Ridership East of Hicksville. By extending the N24, they keep the same headways up to the LIRR station. Now they can just have the N78 run peak hours only because they don't need it to maintain 30 min headways along Old Country Road anymore, the N24 handles that. The N79 can handle the new truncated route on 1 hour headways as it has previously done.

 

2) The N43 is being extended to Hempstead to Connect the N43 to more routes, and to replace the N16 short turns between Hempstead and NCC.

 

3) All these changes collectively save money.

 

 

1) But couldn't they just have N79 short-turns (basically cut those N78 runs back to run Mineola-Hicksville, or RFM-Hicksville)

 

2) I know why it's being extended. But sending the N78/79 there would allow riders on those routes to access more routes. Plus, a good portion of N43 customers are within walking distance of a route to Hempstead (N40/41 for Freeport, and N54/55 or N70/71/72 for Uniondale riders)

 

3) I know that, but how is extending the N43 to Hempstead cheaper than sending the N78/79 to Hempstead (instead of ending at the RFM)