Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Gotham Bus Co.]

I think if they extend the Bx41 to LGA. It should run non stop in Qns except for 1 stop at the / ... After that it's straight to the the 3 terminal stops 

 

I feel like the M60 should have its stop count reduced as well in Qns especially around LGA. Both routes should be rebranded as LGA Links 

 

IIRC, the Bx50 would have been an overlay on top of the Bx41, rather than a pure extension.

 

I would have gone one step further and created a new "borough" designation letter: 

 

- Q70 becomes L70

- M60 becomes L60

- Bx50 (if there is one) would be L50

 

 

I'm not sure if a similar "JFK Flyer" branding would be needed (J3, J10, J15), because those routes have huge levels of non-airport riding.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Gotham Bus Co.

[Armandito]

I think it's possible for Sheepshead Bay to get a bus to Rockaway Park. It would serve the and trains on the Brighton but I would avoid the Belt Parkway and divert it via Kings Plaza and either Avenue X or Knapp Street and Emmons Avenue.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Q44SBS

[Gotham Bus Co.]

I think it's possible for Sheepshead Bay to get a bus to the Rockaways. It would serve the and trains on the Brighton but I would avoid the Belt Parkway and divert it via Kings Plaza and either Avenue X or Knapp Street and Emmons Avenue.

 

Does Sheepshead Bay need a bus to the Rockaways? How much demand is there?

[Armandito]

Does Sheepshead Bay need a bus to the Rockaways? How much demand is there?

Take a look here: http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2012/05/my-proposed-bus-route-changes-for-sheepshead-bay-and-adjacent-neighborhoods-part-1-of-2/ Edited November 7, 2016 by Q44SBS

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Take a look here: http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2012/05/my-proposed-bus-route-changes-for-sheepshead-bay-and-adjacent-neighborhoods-part-1-of-2/

 

So Sheepshead Bay doesn't really "need" a bus to the Rockaways; the Rockaways "need" a bus to somewhere along the Brighton Line. In that case, why should a northbound "Q51" turn south to reach Sheepshead Bay station when it can go a much shorter distance to either Avenue U or Kings Highway station instead?

[Armandito]

So Sheepshead Bay doesn't really "need" a bus to the Rockaways; the Rockaways "need" a bus to somewhere along the Brighton Line. In that case, why should a northbound "Q51" turn south to reach Sheepshead Bay station when it can go a much shorter distance to either Avenue U or Kings Highway station instead?

In that case you could just extend the B2 to the Rockaways, if that's what you mean.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

In that case you could just extend the B2 to the Rockaways, if that's what you mean.

The B2 should be left alone.  I say enough with all of these extensions.  It serves its purpose, which is to connect Marine Park and those going to Kings Plaza to the lines.  Same situation with the B31.... We don't need either line becoming even more unreliable.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The B2 should be left alone.  I say enough with all of these extensions.  It serves its purpose, which is to connect Marine Park and those going to Kings Plaza to the lines.  Same situation with the B31.... We don't need either line becoming even more unreliable.

There's another problem if the B2 is extended to the Rockaways (moreso to B.116 Street). 

 

If they extend the route, the problem now becomes, what routing would it take? If it takes Rockaway Beach Boulevard, it doesn't serve riders near Newport (who are the ones who use the buses more). If you reroute onto Newport, there will be a problem because NYCT/MTABC essentially competing. There's no problem with the two routes on the same stretch, and while the two are in different divisions, problems arising from that won't be so big. However, the NYCT depots in Brooklyn are TWU depots, and the ATU represents JFK and FR. There would likely be a conflict since such a change would likely mean cuts to the Q35. The union would likely not be too happy about that.

[Armandito]

There's another problem if the B2 is extended to the Rockaways (moreso to B.116 Street).

 

If they extend the route, the problem now becomes, what routing would it take? If it takes Rockaway Beach Boulevard, it doesn't serve riders near Newport (who are the ones who use the buses more). If you reroute onto Newport, there will be a problem because NYCT/MTABC essentially competing. There's no problem with the two routes on the same stretch, and while the two are in different divisions, problems arising from that won't be so big. However, the NYCT depots in Brooklyn are TWU depots, and the ATU represents JFK and FR. There would likely be a conflict since such a change would likely mean cuts to the Q35. The union would likely not be too happy about that.

F**k those nasty labor unions...

[Armandito]

Midtown could get a bus route to LGA as well:

 

Route A: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1O3mn38d6276GrHJLCOMMo8kzly0&ll=40.75044792477645%2C-73.94273209649089&z=17

Route B: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?ll=40.77471400906599%2C-73.93163630821226&z=13&mid=1GL2aimQD8pc14-219jT2zRb8PVE

[bobtehpanda]

Midtown could get a bus route to LGA as well:

 

Route A: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1O3mn38d6276GrHJLCOMMo8kzly0&ll=40.75044792477645%2C-73.94273209649089&z=17

Route B: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?ll=40.77471400906599%2C-73.93163630821226&z=13&mid=1GL2aimQD8pc14-219jT2zRb8PVE

 

That would get way too stuck in traffic. Just take the Q70 to the .

[GojiMet86]

Might get into competition with the NYC Airporter, too.

[78 via Stew Leonards]

Somethin's really fishy about these Super Express QM routes taking very indirect routes in the nonstop section: today on the QM20 super express, it went across 36th St, 5th Ave, then 34th St to get to the tunnel, but then took the LIE to the BQE to Astoria Blvd, Whitestone Expwy, just to get to its regular route. And it crawled about two inches a minute nearly the entire way....   It's much simpler to just take the LIE to the Whitestone. As much as those highways have heavy traffic, at least they move

[IAlam]

Somethin's really fishy about these Super Express QM routes taking very indirect routes in the nonstop section: today on the QM20 super express, it went across 36th St, 5th Ave, then 34th St to get to the tunnel, but then took the LIE to the BQE to Astoria Blvd, Whitestone Expwy, just to get to its regular route. And it crawled about two inches a minute nearly the entire way....   It's much simpler to just take the LIE to the Whitestone. As much as those highways have heavy traffic, at least they move

I thought the same way to originally, but it's faster to veer of the LIE to the BQE, frankly the super Express buses are the only ones on time during the winter season because of it. 

[78 via Stew Leonards]

I thought the same way to originally, but it's faster to veer of the LIE to the BQE, frankly the super Express buses are the only ones on time during the winter season because of it. 

There wasnt anything fast about the BQE whatsoever lol.  

[IAlam]

There wasnt anything fast about the BQE whatsoever lol.  

The gridlock on the L.I.E is worse.

[bobtehpanda]

Idea: Instead of having the ghost of the Q79 screw up the Q36, route the Q1 onto the Q36.

 

Q1: Hillside > Winchester > Braddock > Jamaica > LNP

[IAlam]

Idea: Instead of having the ghost of the Q79 screw up the Q36, route the Q1 onto the Q36.

 

Q1: Hillside > Winchester > Braddock > Jamaica > LNP

I'm pretty sure the Q36 was chosen due to the fact it has a higher frequency so a late bus would have less of an effect as compare to a bus with a lower frequency.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I'm pretty sure the Q36 was chosen due to the fact it has a higher frequency so a late bus would have less of an effect as compare to a bus with a lower frequency.  

Except it wouldn't matter, because the headways would be more or less the same 30-40 minute headways. A Q1 to Little Neck would provide more frequent service during middays (since the Q1 has 15 minute headways, compared to the 20 minute headways on the Q36), because even with the split headways, the headways would be every 30 minutes.

BTW, is there a need for late night Q1 service? I was thinking that perhaps the late night service would be better suited being placed on the Q36 or Q43 (from 179 Street).

Edited November 14, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl

[bobtehpanda]

Except it wouldn't matter, because the headways would be more or less the same 30-40 minute headways. A Q1 to Little Neck would provide more frequent service during middays (since the Q1 has 15 minute headways, compared to the 20 minute headways on the Q36), because even with the split headways, the headways would be every 30 minutes.

BTW, is there a need for late night Q1 service? I was thinking that perhaps the late night service would be better suited being placed on the Q36 or Q43 (from 179 Street).

 

Literally any trip you do on the Q1 can be done using either of those buses and five extra minutes of walking.

I'm pretty sure the Q36 was chosen due to the fact it has a higher frequency so a late bus would have less of an effect as compare to a bus with a lower frequency.  

 

With the way people use the Q1, I don't think people would notice if it was late.

[B35 via Church]

Except it wouldn't matter, because the headways would be more or less the same 30-40 minute headways. A Q1 to Little Neck would provide more frequent service during middays (since the Q1 has 15 minute headways, compared to the 20 minute headways on the Q36), because even with the split headways, the headways would be every 30 minutes.

BTW, is there a need for late night Q1 service? I was thinking that perhaps the late night service would be better suited being placed on the Q36 or Q43 (from 179 Street).

1st statement: LNP does not warrant 15 min. service, I'm sorry....

 

2nd statement: I remember reading a long time ago that all that late night bus service (not just on the Q1/36/43) in SE Queens is a compromise for no subway service east of Jamaica..... With that said (putting my biases of the Q1 to the side for a moment), I still say Q1 hawks should not be running on Springfield (as the Q27 has late night service).... Late night service, if it is to be kept, should be solely dedicated to serving the Braddock portion...

 

Literally any trip you do on the Q1 can be done using either of those buses and five extra minutes of walking.

 

With the way people use the Q1, I don't think people would notice if it was late.

1st statement: Pretty much...

 

2nd statement: ...Leads credence as to why I would eliminate the thing.

It's even more redundant than the Q59 I just got through talking about in the Brooklyn thread.....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1st statement: LNP does not warrant 15 min. service, I'm sorry....

 

2nd statement: I remember reading a long time ago that all that late night bus service (not just on the Q1/36/43) in SE Queens is a compromise for no subway service east of Jamaica..... With that said (putting my biases of the Q1 to the side for a moment), I still say Q1 hawks should not be running on Springfield (as the Q27 has late night service).... Late night service, if it is to be kept, should be solely dedicated to serving the Braddock portion...

 

1) I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the Q1 is more frequent than the Q36 during certain parts of the day, which would be much better than the current headways if it was branched (LNP would have 30 minute headways during the daytime hours instead of 30 during the rush and 40 during middays because of the Q36's headways during midday hours).

 

2) The reason I'm asking is that if the Q1 late night service was given to the Q43, you would have 20 minute headways east of 179 Street during late night hours. Since the runs every 20 minutes, one wouldn't have to worry about not catching a bus out east from the . Those short-turns would deviate off the regular route at 180 Street, and drop-off at 180 Street and Hillside. They would then use 180 St > 90 Ave > 179 Place, to turn around, picking up to Floral Park at the Late night stop. 

[B35 via Church]

1) I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the Q1 is more frequent than the Q36 during certain parts of the day, which would be much better than the current headways if it was branched (LNP would have 30 minute headways during the daytime hours instead of 30 during the rush and 40 during middays because of the Q36's headways during midday hours).

 

2) The reason I'm asking is that if the Q1 late night service was given to the Q43, you would have 20 minute headways east of 179 Street during late night hours. Since the runs every 20 minutes, one wouldn't have to worry about not catching a bus out east from the . Those short-turns would deviate off the regular route at 180 Street, and drop-off at 180 Street and Hillside. They would then use 180 St > 90 Ave > 179 Place, to turn around, picking up to Floral Park at the Late night stop. 

1) It's implicative....

 

2) What I believe to be the concern, is the MTA not wanting to have too many Q43's running west of 179th during late night hrs.... So they supply the Q1 with hawk service instead.... They're not going to be bothered with short-turning every other Q43 late nights (although they perhaps should, I mean IDK).... Then you run into the issue of (giving the illusion that) Q43 riders now have 20 min service to Sutphin - come to find out they gotta wait another 20 mins (meaning, current headways) for a bus going past 165th late nights....

 

side note: I find that the Q36 actually has more late night ridership than the Q43 (if you consider the local bar/club scene, it makes sense)... How much of that usage emanates from south of Hillside is the question....

[bobtehpanda]

1) I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the Q1 is more frequent than the Q36 during certain parts of the day, which would be much better than the current headways if it was branched (LNP would have 30 minute headways during the daytime hours instead of 30 during the rush and 40 during middays because of the Q36's headways during midday hours).

 

2) The reason I'm asking is that if the Q1 late night service was given to the Q43, you would have 20 minute headways east of 179 Street during late night hours. Since the runs every 20 minutes, one wouldn't have to worry about not catching a bus out east from the . Those short-turns would deviate off the regular route at 180 Street, and drop-off at 180 Street and Hillside. They would then use 180 St > 90 Ave > 179 Place, to turn around, picking up to Floral Park at the Late night stop. 

 

Late night traffic in Jamaica is so sparse that if you have buses short turning at 179, you might as well have them coming from Supthin.

 

The crux of the LNP problem is that a LNP-only route becomes a glorified LIRR shuttle, which isn't great; when the Q79 existed, it didn't match the LIRR schedule anyways. But attaching it to any bus route is also problematic since that tanks reliability. Maybe you could have a bus route on 30 or 40 minute headways between QV and Little Neck LIRR, but aside from that there isn't really a way to have the route run with 40 ft buses and not bleed money.

Edited November 20, 2016 by bobtehpanda

[B35 via Church]

The crux of the LNP problem is that a LNP-only route becomes a glorified LIRR shuttle, which isn't great; when the Q79 existed, it didn't match the LIRR schedule anyways. But attaching it to any bus route is also problematic since that tanks reliability. Maybe you could have a bus route on 30 or 40 minute headways between QV and Little Neck LIRR, but aside from that there isn't really a way to have the route run with 40 ft buses and not bleed money.

Agreed, to a point....

 

The main utilization of the Q79 (before it got axed) wasn't so much that of being an LIRR shuttle - But instead, the transporting of pax from Northern/LNP to either Union Tpke or Jamaica av (and vice versa)..... Although anyone still on the bus north of Northern were definitely heading for the RR..... The one thing I'll say is that Glen Oaks folks would utilize it, almost as much as they did (board) the (Glen Oaks/260th) Q46... It was "their" (backyard) route, so to speak; they'd ride it b/w HHE & Union Tpke... Felt sorry for those seniors.

 

The wild assumption about the route (to those that never took it) was that its ridership lived & died w/ the LIRR.... Wasn't the case...

Matter fact, I'd say most the trips I rode on the Q79 were a] SB from Northern & b] had more people waiting for it at Northern, than people already on the bus before it hit Northern (basically, the buses that picked up virtually, or literally no one at the RR sta. itself).... But yeah, ridership would accumulate with little to no dropoffs b/w northern & Union Tpke (with Union tpke not inclusive)..... From Union Tpke on down is where you started noticing dropoffs....

 

Although the damage has been done, I still favor bringing back that route, over having any long winded extension of some other route - on the basis of simple coverage....  Extending any bus from Jamaica (esp.) to cover the old Q79 route instantly makes bus service less reliable than a LNP only route.....

 

A route running b/w LIRR QV & LIRR LNP I wouldn't have a problem with....