Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[B35 via Church]

- I personally am not too fond of the idea of skip-stop on a bus line. To me, designating buses as say Q69A & Q69B implies there's some type of branching going on. Honestly, citywide, I think we could use some stop consolidation. Even on Staten Island where the stops generally seem to be spaced reasonably, I can name a few stops right off the top of my head that shouldn't exist.

 

- BTW, Google Maps saying we need permission to view it (yeah, that default setting is annoying). 

1] Speaking of branching, I have the Q101 branched in my western Queens plan.... Too many antiquated routes running through LIC....

 

2] Try now....

[bobtehpanda]

I personally am not too fond of the idea of skip-stop on a bus line. To me, designating buses as say Q69A & Q69B implies there's some type of branching going on. Honestly, citywide, I think we could use some stop consolidation. Even on Staten Island where the stops generally seem to be spaced reasonably, I can name a few stops right off the top of my head that shouldn't exist.

 

 

Alright, that makes sense.

 

BTW, Google Maps saying we need permission to view it (yeah, that default setting is annoying). 

 

There are certain cases where it's okay to skip-stop; like if you had a lot of buses converging onto one road and not all of them could reasonably stop at every stop anyway, then you could have group skip-stops.. Stop consolidation would be nice, but it can be done pretty badly.

[IAlam]

I personally am not too fond of the idea of skip-stop on a bus line. To me, designating buses as say Q69A & Q69B implies there's some type of branching going on. Honestly, citywide, I think we could use some stop consolidation. Even on Staten Island where the stops generally seem to be spaced reasonably, I can name a few stops right off the top of my head that shouldn't exist.

 

 

Alright, that makes sense.

 

BTW, Google Maps saying we need permission to view it (yeah, that default setting is annoying). 

At that point it's just better to to LTD to LIC and locals to 48th st

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I would agree to a split of the Q66 at 51 Street. The segment could be given to the B32, but what would be the frequencies. I would make buses run every 15 minutes during rush hours, 20 during midday hours, and 30 minutes outside of those time periods (I believe 35 Avenue should be fine without overnight service).

 

As for B35's route, I think that there should be a slightly different routing in the LIC area around Queens Plaza. I would route the bus on 44 Drive until Jackson Avenue, then take 42 Road, so it doesn't have to backtrack like that. Going the other way, it would do Queens Plaza South to 28 Street, then on 42 Road, and then onto Jackson Avenue, for 44 Drive.

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

Generally, traffic on Northern Blvd (west) is rather smooth, all things considered (it's similar to Hillside av, except it's prone to more traffic stand-stills).... Granted, that's not factoring in game days (Mets), where Northern can just about grind to a halt for miles (west of the stadium)....

 

The thing is, a typical ride on the Q66, you can expect to experience either someone getting off or someone getting on at almost literally every stop along the way - from 48th on over the 100's.... Buses east of the 48th st mall never really get a chance to "move" (if you catch my drift).... It's not that traffic is making the Q66 stop & go, it's the amount of passenger activity per stop that makes it stop & go.... If you judged the Q66 by traffic along Northern Blvd alone, you would think it'd be a pretty quick route - it's anything but that.... This is a large reason why I think the route overall should run b/w Woodside & Flushing....

 

While 35th is necessary for coverage I suppose, 21st is an absolute waste of time - both of which does nothing more than add to the waiting time of pax needing to get anywhere b/w Woodside & Flushing (I guess you can call that the core riderbase of the Q66) - When it doesn't have to be IMO....21st is over-saturated w/ overall bus service as it is (there's too much combined service b/w the Q69 the Q100, I find).... It seems as if the Q66 is being used as a stopgap - All 3 routes end in QBP, but:

Q66: ....the local that gets to the part of 21st that the masses need quicker (which is north of QBP)Q100: ...the LTD that gets to the part of 21st that the masses need quickerQ69: ....the local that backtracks to Court Sq. before getting to the part of 21st that the masses want

All of this is why the Q66 carries air heading towards QBP, and sees moderate (at best) levels of ridership out of QBP...

 

I'm not exactly suggesting this, but if the concern is that coverage should be kept along 35th, perhaps running a route b/w Greenpoint av (or Nassau av) & Northern Blvd would be in order (or, for all I care, merging that same aforementioned part of the Q66 with the entire B32).... Either way, the main goal would be to have both the Q69 local & the Q100 LTD be the routes out of QBP serving 21st st north of QBP quicker.... Saying it all another way, the backtracking of the Q69 to court sq. is the main reason the Q66 gets riders out of QBP..... There is not much ridership on the Q66 out of QBP past 35th/Steinway - and that is being generous..... So to directly answer that last question, yep (although I do understand why the Q69 serves Court Sq)....

 

Think I got to everything I wanted to say....

I would agree to a split of the Q66 at 51 Street. The segment could be given to the B32, but what would be the frequencies. I would make buses run every 15 minutes during rush hours, 20 during midday hours, and 30 minutes outside of those time periods (I believe 35 Avenue should be fine without overnight service).

 

As for B35's route, I think that there should be a slightly different routing in the LIC area around Queens Plaza. I would route the bus on 44 Drive until Jackson Avenue, then take 42 Road, so it doesn't have to backtrack like that. Going the other way, it would do Queens Plaza South to 28 Street, then on 42 Road, and then onto Jackson Avenue, for 44 Drive.

I also like the spliting the Q66 and extending the B32 to the cover 35 Ave to Northern Blvd Sta however I would just have the B32 duplicate the B62 to the Q66 and visa versa on the return trip negating 28 st altogether. Giving the fact that the B32 is still new to so people the 11 st to 44 dr to 21 st turnaround function could be cut without affecting a lot of people and would slow down the extension of the b32 in question. Funny enough the B32 might need a name change if the MTA ever when through with because in LIC the Q32 is already a dominate force,which that it would be confusing to people who don't use the borough prefixes similar to the B10/Q10 to JFK situation that resulting in the B10 to B15 change. Maybe a B32 to B30 name change could work for this extension.

Edited June 28, 2016 by B102 LTD

[B35 via Church]

I would agree to a split of the Q66 at 51 Street. The segment could be given to the B32, but what would be the frequencies. I would make buses run every 15 minutes during rush hours, 20 during midday hours, and 30 minutes outside of those time periods (I believe 35 Avenue should be fine without overnight service).

 

As for B35's route, I think that there should be a slightly different routing in the LIC area around Queens Plaza. I would route the bus on 44 Drive until Jackson Avenue, then take 42 Road, so it doesn't have to backtrack like that. Going the other way, it would do Queens Plaza South to 28 Street, then on 42 Road, and then onto Jackson Avenue, for 44 Drive.

To be perfectly honest, the only thing I would leave 35th av with, is (diverted) Q101 service b/w 31st & Steinway... There's much more to the overall western Queens plan that I don't feel like explaining right now.... What I will say right now is that, the Q104 would be "the" east-west route in the area, and wouldn't end in the middle of nothing on the western end like it currently does; exactly what I'm talking about w/ the antiquatedness...

 

The map I posted last week or so ago, was nothing more than an illustration of a talking point; it wasn't something I was literally suggesting.... So I'm not going to defend it, or comment on your critique of it....

 

See, I don't believe any of these dinky routes should exist; including the B32....

What I would do though, is incorporate portions of the B32 into a new interborough LTD route running b/w Williamsburg (not to WBP specifically) & Astoria.... I wouldn't exactly extend the B32 (as is) either, because the Williamsburg portion of the route doesn't see consistent usage like the Greenpoint portion of the route does..... Yes, the B32 took riders from off the B62 overall, but I'm finding that the interchangeability factor is greater at WBP than at 11th/Jackson... Meaning, those taking buses from WBP don't specifically need the B32 over the B62.... It's much less of a benefit.

 

The only way I'd keep the B32 around, is if the B62 were to revert back to the old B61 routing in Williamsburg (where NB buses continued on Bedford north of division & SB buses went driggs>broadway > wythe).... My point in saying that is, the B32 and the B62 should not be serving WBP....

[MysteriousBtrain]

My memory is kind of fuzzy here, but are they building in the area of College Point Blvd and Roosevelt Av? If not, a terminal can be built there for 90% of the buses ending at flushing.

Edited July 10, 2016 by ShadeJay

[Gotham Bus Co.]

My memory is kind of fuzzy here, but are they building in the area of College Point Blvd and Roosevelt Av? If not, a terminal can be built there for 90% of the buses ending at flushing.

 

Northwest corner is a hotel.

 

Southwest corner is Skyview Center, a retail and residential complex with two full apartment towers and three more under construction.

 

Southeast corner is the Bland Houses (public housing).

 

Northeast corner is a gas station.

[bobtehpanda]

My memory is kind of fuzzy here, but are they building in the area of College Point Blvd and Roosevelt Av? If not, a terminal can be built there for 90% of the buses ending at flushing.

 

The rezoning plan is dead because of traffic generation concerns.

 

It was also, to be honest, a really dumb idea to put a bus terminal there when they proposed it. Most traffic in Flushing is due to traffic from Kissena and points east/south, and routing buses to the west would require them to travel on the same streets that they do today. There would also be a forced four or five block walk to Main St.

[Q43LTD]

So more and more Q83's are ending at 227, the Springfield short turns aren't as prominent as they were in years past...kind of similar to how the 137 short turns were phased out on the Q111 to accomidate the Q113/114. I would still reinstate QV LIRR daytime service, since not every Q27 goes to Cambria...Springfield wouldn't be "overserved" between Jamaica and Murdock

[NY1635]

So more and more Q83's are ending at 227, the Springfield short turns aren't as prominent as they were in years past...kind of similar to how the 137 short turns were phased out on the Q111 to accomidate the Q113/114. I would still reinstate QV LIRR daytime service, since not every Q27 goes to Cambria...Springfield wouldn't be "overserved" between Jamaica and Murdock

 

The only thing that the Q83 to QV LIRR would do is pick up the people who are fed up with waiting for the 27 to show up.

[B35 via Church]

So more and more Q83's are ending at 227, the Springfield short turns aren't as prominent as they were in years past...kind of similar to how the 137 short turns were phased out on the Q111 to accomidate the Q113/114. I would still reinstate QV LIRR daytime service, since not every Q27 goes to Cambria...Springfield wouldn't be "overserved" between Jamaica and Murdock

Not every one, nah... But I have to say there's enough 27's that go to Cambria Hgts these days.....

[Future ENY OP]

Long Island City bus service. What bus services are needed as far as extension of service on the Q39, Q66, Q67, Q69, Q100, Q101, Q102, Q103 and Q104. LIC is a growing community which I feel is lacking bus service.

 

As discussed on the Brooklyn Bus proposal someone made a comment in extending the B32. I feel that B32 has no business to be extended further into LIC. What suggestions of the forementioned routes can service be extended in LIC/Astoria/Ravenswood areas.

[GojiMet86]

I do feel there should be a bus running around west of Vernon Blvd.

[checkmatechamp13]

I do feel there should be a bus running around west of Vernon Blvd.

 

I could see a case for the Q103 being extended to connect with the East River Ferry, but something running the length of Center Blvd.....eh I know you have to walk through a more industrial area to get towards Vernon Blvd and the train, but at the same time, I don't see that many people in that area who would actually be using the bus, as opposed to walking or biking it out to where they need to go.

[GojiMet86]

I was thinking something along those lines as well. The area doesn't strike as me as well populated as, say, Broadway Astoria or Ditmars Astoria. There's already a shuttle bus of sorts running around that area.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

From the Brooklyn Bus Thread

An extension to Roosevelt Island.

 

The Q102 is a sorely antiquated route (worse than the B24 IMO, and that's saying a lot), and the Q104 terminates in the middle of nothing.... Matter fact, buses don't even end on 11th & 34th - Soon as buses make that left off Vernon & onto 34th, buses end right there... Some b/o's even end along Vernon itself (before the turn onto 34th)....

I'd have to say that it's better than sending it up to Astoria PJ's where the Q18/19/102/103 terminate. (I don't think there's room for a fifth route) Now I'm inclined to remove the 102 from RI and end it at QBP

Okay, so would the final proposal have Q104 replace all Q102 in Roosevelt Island? What would also happen to the Q102

 

Some of the other routes in the LIC and in Western Queens need some sort of restructuring to improve connectivity and/or use of resources. I don't remember when, but there was a proposal before to straighten the Q104 so that it runs to Jackson via Broadway (and eliminates the 48 Street portion). IDK if there is enough ridership to do that, but potentially, if something like that would come to fruition, perhaps service could run more or less as follows (and incorporating this and other previous proposals, as well as some additions):

 

Q66: Woodside to Flushing, with select trips running to Sunnyside to replace the Q104 segment that would be lost.

Q100: Queens Plaza to Steinway (service to Rikers Island discontinued, in order to focus more on the 21 Street portion of the line)

Q101: Queens Plaza to Rikers Island (via Queensbridge, replaces Q66 western segment up to Steinway Street, Q100 north of 19 Avenue)

Q102: Astoria Projects to East Midtown (replaces Q101 to Midtown; late night service over the bridge from Western Queens discontinued)

Q104: Roosevelt Island/LIC to Jackson Heights

 

As for the Q102 proposal, it does not have to be at the current Q101 terminal where it has to terminate in East Midtown. Perhaps somewhere closer to 57 Street (such as 55 Street and 3 Avenue). Traffic will be an issue, but there's also more bus connections, rather than just the Q32 and the M15.

 

Thoughts?

Edited July 24, 2016 by BM5 via WOODHAVEN BL

[Gotham Bus Co.]

So more and more Q83's are ending at 227, the Springfield short turns aren't as prominent as they were in years past...kind of similar to how the 137 short turns were phased out on the Q111 to accomidate the Q113/114. I would still reinstate QV LIRR daytime service, since not every Q27 goes to Cambria...Springfield wouldn't be "overserved" between Jamaica and Murdock

 

 

Maybe just send more Q27's south of Jamaica Avenue.

[B35 via Church]

From the Brooklyn Bus Thread:

 

An extension to Roosevelt Island.

 

The Q102 is a sorely antiquated route (worse than the B24 IMO, and that's saying a lot), and the Q104 terminates in the middle of nothing.... Matter fact, buses don't even end on 11th & 34th - Soon as buses make that left off Vernon & onto 34th, buses end right there... Some b/o's even end along Vernon itself (before the turn onto 34th)....

I'd have to say that it's better than sending it up to Astoria PJ's where the Q18/19/102/103 terminate. (I don't think there's room for a fifth route) Now I'm inclined to remove the 102 from RI and end it at QBP

Okay, so would the final proposal have Q104 replace all Q102 in Roosevelt Island?

What would also happen to the Q102?

Yes, the idea is to have the Q104 be the Roosevelt Island route (so to speak) instead of the 102.... In turn, I'd turn the Q102 into a complementary route along Steinway... I'll get more into it whenever I get around to finishing the full western Queens plan....

 

The other part of your post I'll comment on, later on...

Edited July 25, 2016 by B35 via Church

[Q43LTD]

From the Brooklyn Bus Thread

 

 

Okay, so would the final proposal have Q104 replace all Q102 in Roosevelt Island? What would also happen to the Q102

 

Some of the other routes in the LIC and in Western Queens need some sort of restructuring to improve connectivity and/or use of resources. I don't remember when, but there was a proposal before to straighten the Q104 so that it runs to Jackson via Broadway (and eliminates the 48 Street portion). IDK if there is enough ridership to do that, but potentially, if something like that would come to fruition, perhaps service could run more or less as follows (and incorporating this and other previous proposals, as well as some additions):

 

Q66: Woodside to Flushing, with select trips running to Sunnyside to replace the Q104 segment that would be lost.

Q100: Queens Plaza to Steinway (service to Rikers Island discontinued, in order to focus more on the 21 Street portion of the line)

Q101: Queens Plaza to Rikers Island (via Queensbridge, replaces Q66 western segment up to Steinway Street, Q100 north of 19 Avenue)

Q102: Astoria Projects to East Midtown (replaces Q101 to Midtown; late night service over the bridge from Western Queens discontinued)

Q104: Roosevelt Island/LIC to Jackson Heights

 

As for the Q102 proposal, it does not have to be at the current Q101 terminal where it has to terminate in East Midtown. Perhaps somewhere closer to 57 Street (such as 55 Street and 3 Avenue). Traffic will be an issue, but there's also more bus connections, rather than just the Q32 and the M15.

 

Thoughts?

I kind of dig the idea of a Broadway route. I think there was a proposal to have a 31 St bus since none of the Astoria stations are ADA accessible

[officiallyliam]

Hey everyone - I'm new to the fourms here and thought I'd join to share proposals and ideas. I live in Queens, and it is no secret that the Q38 bus route is unreliable, largely as a result of its strangely-shaped route. The idea to split the route into two has been bounced around many times, but I details on how the new routes would operate.

 

This would split the Q38 and combine it with two other existing routes. The Eliot Ave Branch would be taken over as and extension of the Q50 from Flushing. The Penelope Branch would be taken over as an extension of the Q64.

 

Q64 service would run from Electchester to Middle Village-Metro Av Station via Jewel Ave, 108th St, and 63rd Dr, then continuing regular Q38 route.

 

Q50 service would run from Co-Op City to Middle Village via College Pt Blvd, H Harding Expressway, 57th/59th Avs, then regular Q38 route down Eliot.

 

In terms of depots, the 64 would continue to run out of Baisley Pk and the 50 could be just Eastchester or split Eastchester/CP.

 

Thoughts? 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Hey everyone - I'm new to the fourms here and thought I'd join to share proposals and ideas. I live in Queens, and it is no secret that the Q38 bus route is unreliable, largely as a result of its strangely-shaped route. The idea to split the route into two has been bounced around many times, but I details on how the new routes would operate.

 

This would split the Q38 and combine it with two other existing routes. The Eliot Ave Branch would be taken over as and extension of the Q50 from Flushing. The Penelope Branch would be taken over as an extension of the Q64.

 

Q64 service would run from Electchester to Middle Village-Metro Av Station via Jewel Ave, 108th St, and 63rd Dr, then continuing regular Q38 route.

 

Q50 service would run from Co-Op City to Middle Village via College Pt Blvd, H Harding Expressway, 57th/59th Avs, then regular Q38 route down Eliot.

 

In terms of depots, the 64 would continue to run out of Baisley Pk and the 50 could be just Eastchester or split Eastchester/CP.

 

Thoughts? 

 

That wouldn't solve reliability at all.

 

The Q50 has its own problems going to/from the Bronx and frequently along Bruckner Blvd. Never mind that it has to loop throughout Co-Op City. There's also chokepoints along the northern portion of the Q38, which would create a whole bunch of reliability problems along the entire line. Also, traffic on the LIE is a hit or miss outside the rush hour, and almost always is a crawl during the rush. That would also be a problem, since run times would never be precise. The Q88 deals with the same issue. How would you route the Q50 towards the Bronx in the LeFrak City area without bypassing it in entirety. 

 

With the Q64, you eliminate the direct connection to the subway at Forest Hills, and then route it to 63 Drive. Not only does it take longer, but it is a local station. That's going to piss off a whole lot of people. Now, despite its frequency, do not let that deceive you. Buses frequently bunch, especially during rush hours. Imagine extending buses up 108 Street to then serve the Penelope Avenue section of the Q38, and travel along Metropolitan Avenue (which is slow for most of the day). 

 

Another issue is frequency. The more frequent Q64 is serving the lesser used Penelope Avenue segment, whereas the infrequent Q50 is serving the higher used LeFrak City and Eliot Avenue segments of the route. If you leave it with Q50 frequencies, it is too much. If you put short-turns, it will be too frequent. With the Q64, you add so much service unless you short turn 2 out of every 3 buses during the AM rush and midday hours, and every other bus during the PM rush and evening periods (and you oversaturate service on Saturdays and Sundays). I'd rather leave the Q38, Q50, and Q64 as it is, as the current proposal would make things worse for Q38 riders (like me). 

 

Splitting the Q38 and combining them with other routes (no matter what route) would spell disaster (for the most part). They should rather run as individual routes, if they were to be split, plus any extra modifications to those splits.

Edited July 30, 2016 by BM5 via WOODHAVEN BL

[IAlam]

It would be nice it the MTA turned the Woodhaven Bl/Hoffman Dr stop and the Woodhaven Bl/Booth St stop be turned into a transfer for most Express buses so that people can transfer between different lines and branches. Excluded routes would QM1-3, 5-8, and the QM20; the QM16 and QM17 would only do a drop off in the AM and a pickup in the PM; and instead of listing routes at the signs, they could just list the branch on for different signs 

 

MTA BUS - MIDTOWN VIA 6TH AVE

MTA BUS - MIDTOWN VIA 3RD AVE 

MTA BUS - DOWNTOWN LOOP

MTA BUS - MIDTOWN VIA 5TH & MADISON AVES

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

It would be nice it the MTA turned the Woodhaven Bl/Hoffman Dr stop and the Woodhaven Bl/Booth St stop be turned into a transfer for most Express buses so that people can transfer between different lines and branches. Excluded routes would QM1-3, 5-8, and the QM20; the QM16 and QM17 would only do a drop off in the AM and a pickup in the PM; and instead of listing routes at the signs, they could just list the branch on for different signs 

 

MTA BUS - MIDTOWN VIA 6TH AVE

MTA BUS - MIDTOWN VIA 3RD AVE 

MTA BUS - DOWNTOWN LOOP

MTA BUS - MIDTOWN VIA 5TH & MADISON AVES

Going from SW Queens, you basically got every express bus covered, so one won't need to switch buses.

Union Turnpike has its own transfer point. There's really no point in transferring with the LeFrak City and Forest Hills routes, because many stops are already covered (except some areas of Yellowstone Blvd on the QM12 for anyone heading towards Downtown). Honestly though, I don't really see the purpose for it. Perhaps a QM4/QM11 transfer point can be considered somewhere in Forest Hills or Rego Park.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Perhaps a QM4/QM11 transfer point can be considered somewhere in Forest Hills or Rego Park.

 

You can already take the Q64 to the QM11.