Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[P3F]

If an Express Bus actually ran on Ave R or Quentin Rd near Ocean Ave, I might actually use it instead of the subway. (Depends on how crowded the buses would be.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If an Express Bus actually ran on Ave R or Quentin Rd near Ocean Ave, I might actually use it instead of the subway. (Depends on how crowded the buses would be.)

I don't know about that. The BM3 runs on Ocean and stops by Avenue R and by Kings Highway, and for those who aren't close enough to Ocean, there is the BM4 by Nostrand. I just get the sense that the people with money over there (mainly Jews) drive.  They can afford the express bus but don't use it.  Here in Riverdale I see plenty of religious Jews on the express buses.  The Jews in Midwood are much more conservative than the Jews here in Riverdale, and that may be one of the big differences.  

 

There's a demographic shift in South Brooklyn that is affecting the express buses... More Russian Jews, Israeli Jews, Sefardi Jews, etc. and these people are replacing the Italians, Irish and other old ethnic guards that preferred the express bus.  It's as simple as that. Look at Bay Ridge and the X27/X28... Mainly Irish and Italians holding to Bay Ridge and the old school ethnic groups which includes the Norweigans. The old school folks still exist in some parts but their numbers continue to shrink. These new comers have a different mentality... Prefer driving or using the subway. The subway back in the day was horrible and the old timers remember those days and stuck to the express bus. Those people are moving away to New Jersey, Long Island or other parts of NYC or are dying off.  You have some of the new comers using the express bus, but certainly not in the same numbers.  The routes most effected are the BM3 and BM4.  Bergen Beach still has the old school Italians and other old school ethnic goups that will use the express bus and Mill Basin and Bergen Beach are quite affluent and isolated.

 

Let those areas change demographically and the BM1's ridership would drop considerably.  The BM4 isn't used enough in Gerritsen Beach because a lot of those folks drive or take the B31 to the subway, even though they are the old school ethnic folks (German, Irish and Italians primarily).

Edited December 27, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

I see I wasn't the only one thinking of taking BM4 off Nostrand. But you really think bm4 can compete with B31to ? If moved off Nostrand? If so how?

Not "compete", but I absolutely believe it could take riders off the Brighton.....

(not exactly the same thing)

 

After Av. K on Ocean, there's no east-westerly exp. service up until Av X - where the BM3 deviates to have/serve a bigger reach/catchment area of the neighborhood of Sheepshead.....

 

If an Express Bus actually ran on Ave R or Quentin Rd near Ocean Ave, I might actually use it instead of the subway. (Depends on how crowded the buses would be.)

Case in point (remark aimed at QJT)

 

Anyway, you (P3F) wouldn't have to worry about buses being crowded coming from Gerritsen.....

 

What exactly do those damn people use over there? It's not like they can't afford it.... Plenty of co-ops and condos over there.  Do they drive or what??

Lol...

 

In Madison, yes it's dense & yes, there is a lot of driving going on.... Av R & Av S in the mornings, it reminds me of the "rush" to get out of a RR parking lot in the evening.... Part of the reason Ocean Pkwy. sees the traffic that it gets.....

 

Anyway, for the ones (Madison) that use public transportation, it isn't that they can't afford it - it's that they're REALLY fixated on getting to the Brighton...

 

As for the Midwood portion along Nostrand av (b/w kings hwy & Av K), forget it.... Those folks flock to the BM1 or the BM3...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not "compete", but I absolutely believe it could take riders off the Brighton.....

(not exactly the same thing)

 

After Av. K on Ocean, there's no east-westerly exp. service up until Av X - where the BM3 deviates to have/serve a bigger reach/catchment area of the neighborhood of Sheepshead.....

 

Case in point (remark aimed at QJT)

 

Anyway, you (P3F) wouldn't have to worry about buses being crowded coming from Gerritsen.....

 

Lol...

 

In Madison, yes it's dense & yes, there is a lot of driving going on.... Av R & Av S in the mornings, it reminds me of the "rush" to get out of a RR parking lot in the evening.... Part of the reason Ocean Pkwy. sees the traffic that it gets.....

 

Anyway, for the ones (Madison) that use public transportation, it isn't that they can't afford it - it's that they're REALLY fixated on getting to the Brighton...

 

As for the Midwood portion along Nostrand av (b/w kings hwy & Av K), forget it.... Those folks flock to the BM1 or the BM3...

For what it's worth, the Brighton Line has always been decent... Never really ghetto even back in the 90's... I always felt safe riding... That's another HUGE factor. The folks in Bay Ridge though still don't want to deal with the subway and part of that stems from the large elderly population who fears the subway (the does go through some rather crappy areas after Bay Ridge) in addition to Bay Ridge being isolated... That's why the Bronx express buses do well overall... The areas are a schlepp to get to AND/OR the subways go through absolute sh*t holes/ghettos that those people will pay whatever they have to to avoid that.  That's probably one of the things with Brooklyn overall that is interesting... A lot of areas overall are similar in terms of economic viability... So more than others, but you have a lot less ghettos in Brooklyn than in the Bronx where there is subway service and that has a big impact on how people think, not to mention that a lot of the express buses in Brooklyn take longer than the subway in some cases as opposed to the Bronx.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[qjtransitmaster]

so that explains the cuts to bm service

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

For what it's worth, the Brighton Line has always been decent... Never really ghetto even back in the 90's... I always felt safe riding... That's another HUGE factor. The folks in Bay Ridge though still don't want to deal with the subway and part of that stems from the large elderly population who fears the subway (the does go through some rather crappy areas after Bay Ridge) in addition to Bay Ridge being isolated... That's why the Bronx express buses do well overall... The areas are a schlepp to get to AND/OR the subways go through absolute sh*t holes/ghettos that those people will pay whatever they have to to avoid that.  That's probably one of the things with Brooklyn overall that is interesting... A lot of areas overall are similar in terms of economic viability... So more than others, but you have a lot less ghettos in Brooklyn than in the Bronx where there is subway service and that has a big impact on how people think, not to mention that a lot of the express buses in Brooklyn take longer than the subway in some cases as opposed to the Bronx.

 

And you just explained the pre-2010 BM5 in a nutshell (slightly off topic).

 

Anyways, going back to moving the BM4 to Ocean, if that were to happen, I guess it would be preferable to make it go along Quentin Road.

[P3F]

I don't know about that. The BM3 runs on Ocean and stops by Avenue R and by Kings Highway, and for those who aren't close enough to Ocean, there is the BM4 by Nostrand. I just get the sense that the people with money over there (mainly Jews) drive.  They can afford the express bus but don't use it.  Here in Riverdale I see plenty of religious Jews on the express buses.  The Jews in Midwood are much more conservative than the Jews here in Riverdale, and that may be one of the big differences.  

 

There's a demographic shift in South Brooklyn that is affecting the express buses... More Russian Jews, Israeli Jews, Sefardi Jews, etc. and these people are replacing the Italians, Irish and other old ethnic guards that preferred the express bus.  It's as simple as that. Look at Bay Ridge and the X27/X28... Mainly Irish and Italians holding to Bay Ridge and the old school ethnic groups which includes the Norweigans. The old school folks still exist in some parts but their numbers continue to shrink. These new comers have a different mentality... Prefer driving or using the subway. The subway back in the day was horrible and the old timers remember those days and stuck to the express bus. Those people are moving away to New Jersey, Long Island or other parts of NYC or are dying off.  You have some of the new comers using the express bus, but certainly not in the same numbers.  The routes most effected are the BM3 and BM4.  Bergen Beach still has the old school Italians and other old school ethnic goups that will use the express bus and Mill Basin and Bergen Beach are quite affluent and isolated.

 

Let those areas change demographically and the BM1's ridership would drop considerably.  The BM4 isn't used enough in Gerritsen Beach because a lot of those folks drive or take the B31 to the subway, even though they are the old school ethnic folks (German, Irish and Italians primarily).

You have a point; we don't know how many of the people who currently ride the Brighton or drive would switch to an Express bus given the opportunity. 

[qjtransitmaster]

You have a point; we don't know how many of the people who currently ride the Brighton or drive would switch to an Express bus given the opportunity.

judging by how the is used not many. Plus the has improved in reliability which would make the express bus a very hard sell. You are not going to get people to give up express service on the for a bus that not only costs more at $6 PPR or $55 weekly but is slower to boot and much less frequent and can get caught in unpredictable FDR or Hugh Cary tunnel traffic. One of the reasons BM2& 1 do much better than the BM3&4.

[BxM4Woodlawn]

extend the B67 and B69 further down McDonald Avenue to Coney Island. And make one of them a Limited

[B35 via Church]

extend the B67 and B69 further down McDonald Avenue to Coney Island. And make one of them a Limited

Lol... For starters, Park slopers would have a fit, and I would not blame them one bit.

 

Aside from that, there's no demand for a McDonald av route anyway....

[MysteriousBtrain]

Lol... For starters, Park slopers would have a fit, and I would not blame them one bit.

 

Aside from that, there's no demand for a McDonald av route anyway....

Not only that, but the is there if you want to go to Coney Island.

[Q43LTD]

extend the B67 and B69 further down McDonald Avenue to Coney Island. And make one of them a Limited

How about, that's what the is for. Where would they terminate inside Mermaid Loop?

[qjtransitmaster]

How about, that's what the is for. Where would they terminate inside Mermaid Loop?

what's not even humor him.

extend the B67 and B69 further down McDonald Avenue to Coney Island. And make one of them a Limited

how about no.

[TheNewYorkElevated]

Here's a more sensible bus proposal.

Route Name/Number

B88

Depot Owner

Spring Creek

General Route Info

The B88 will begin at The Gateway Center Mall in Spring Creek. It will turn left onto Erskine Street, right onto Vandalia Avenue, and then left on Fountain Avenue, where from there, it will follow the B8 until South Conduit Avenue (along with additional stops for subway transfers to the line. Once it reaches South Conduit Avenue, it will make a right onto that street, and continue straight until it reaches the Van Wyck Expressway, where it goes onto exit ramp 1S, then doing a stop at Federal Circle, and eventually will continue on to JFK with the Q10 and B15, and terminate at Terminal 5 with the Q3 (where JetBlue runs it's NYC based flights). The return trip to Spring Creek will start with stopping at terminals 7 and 8. Then, the route will get on the Van Wyck, with a stopover at Federal Circle. From there, the route will continue onto the expressway until it reaches exit 1N, where it will go onto a u-turn, and join North Conduit Avenue. There will be bus stands at 130th Street, Lefferts Boulevard, and Aqueduct Road. It will continue onwards North Conduit until it meets the B8, where from there it will follow that route pattern, and eventually terminate at mall.

Buses It Will Use

New Flyer C40LF

Enviro 300 (test fleet)

Hours

24/7 XD

Benefits

It will help commuters have more options that just using the line.

 

What do you think? It is it good or it needs improvement?

[Gotham Bus Co.]

...it will follow the B8 until South Conduit Avenue....

 

 

 

Of course, you meant the Q8, right?

[MysteriousBtrain]

Here's a more sensible bus proposal.

Route Name/Number

B88

Depot Owner

Spring Creek

General Route Info

The B88 will begin at The Gateway Center Mall in Spring Creek. It will turn left onto Erskine Street, right onto Vandalia Avenue, and then left on Fountain Avenue, where from there, it will follow the B8 until South Conduit Avenue (along with additional stops for subway transfers to the line. Once it reaches South Conduit Avenue, it will make a right onto that street, and continue straight until it reaches the Van Wyck Expressway, where it goes onto exit ramp 1S, then doing a stop at Federal Circle, and eventually will continue on to JFK with the Q10 and B15, and terminate at Terminal 5 with the Q3 (where JetBlue runs it's NYC based flights). The return trip to Spring Creek will start with stopping at terminals 7 and 8. Then, the route will get on the Van Wyck, with a stopover at Federal Circle. From there, the route will continue onto the expressway until it reaches exit 1N, where it will go onto a u-turn, and join North Conduit Avenue. There will be bus stands at 130th Street, Lefferts Boulevard, and Aqueduct Road. It will continue onwards North Conduit until it meets the B8, where from there it will follow that route pattern, and eventually terminate at mall.

Buses It Will Use

New Flyer C40LF

Enviro 300 (test fleet)

Hours

24/7 XD

Benefits

It will help commuters have more options that just using the line.

 

What do you think? It is it good or it needs improvement?

Question is, will people choose this route over the airtrain for service?

I'd say It would not really work.

[Q43LTD]

How many mall to airport routes do we have?

[TheNewYorkElevated]

Of course, you meant the Q8, right?

No, the B8 Edited January 11, 2015 by TheNewYorkElevated

[B35 via Church]

Here's a more sensible bus proposal.

Route Name/Number

B88

Depot Owner

Spring Creek

General Route Info

The B88 will begin at The Gateway Center Mall in Spring Creek. It will turn left onto Erskine Street, right onto Vandalia Avenue, and then left on Fountain Avenue, where from there, it will follow the B8 until South Conduit Avenue (along with additional stops for subway transfers to the line. Once it reaches South Conduit Avenue, it will make a right onto that street, and continue straight until it reaches the Van Wyck Expressway, where it goes onto exit ramp 1S, then doing a stop at Federal Circle, and eventually will continue on to JFK with the Q10 and B15, and terminate at Terminal 5 with the Q3 (where JetBlue runs it's NYC based flights). The return trip to Spring Creek will start with stopping at terminals 7 and 8. Then, the route will get on the Van Wyck, with a stopover at Federal Circle. From there, the route will continue onto the expressway until it reaches exit 1N, where it will go onto a u-turn, and join North Conduit Avenue. There will be bus stands at 130th Street, Lefferts Boulevard, and Aqueduct Road. It will continue onwards North Conduit until it meets the B8, where from there it will follow that route pattern, and eventually terminate at mall.

Buses It Will Use

New Flyer C40LF

Enviro 300 (test fleet)

Hours

24/7 XD

Benefits

It will help commuters have more options that just using the line.

 

What do you think? It is it good or it needs improvement?

So let me get this right... You're proposing a route that runs between a mall & an airport?

Where exactly will your riderbase come from?

 

Also, I don't see how that "benefit" you posted would be one... You're not gonna get people to make their way to Gateway mall to avoid taking the .... People would still continue taking the B15 to JFK, since it has a MUCH bigger reach/catchment area than the route being proposed in this proposal....

Edited January 11, 2015 by B35 via Church

[TheNewYorkElevated]

So let me get this right... You're proposing a route that runs between a mall & an airport?

 

Where exactly will your riderbase come from?

Mainly at the Euclid Avenue subway stop. And yes, I'm proposing a route that runs between a mall and an airport.

[B35 via Church]

Mainly at the Euclid Avenue subway stop....

Few things man....

 

1] Where do you have these buses stopping at Euclid av in that original post of yours?

This is what you posted:

The B88 will begin at The Gateway Center Mall in Spring Creek. It will turn left onto Erskine Street, right onto Vandalia Avenue, and then left on Fountain Avenue, where from there, it will follow the B8 until South Conduit Avenue (along with additional stops for subway transfers to the line. Once it reaches South Conduit Avenue, it will make a right onto that street, and continue straight until it reaches the Van Wyck Expressway, where it goes onto exit ramp 1S, then doing a stop at Federal Circle, and eventually will continue on to JFK with the Q10 and B15, and terminate at Terminal 5 with the Q3 (where JetBlue runs it's NYC based flights).

 

2] The Q8 never sees South Conduit Av.... That's Linden Blvd it turns onto, after Fountain....

More or less, what this "B88" is, is a combination of portions of the Q8 & portions of the B15, which doesn't make sense.....

Like I said in the edit, you're not gonna get people to make their way to Gateway mall to avoid taking the ....

 

3] Even if you had this route running on South Conduit, It wouldn't connect to the at the North Conduit stop anyway...

 

4] What would be the point of having this route as an alternative, if you would have it connect to the ?

Who's gonna get off at Euclid av to catch a bus going to JFK, when they could stay on the until Howard Beach & catch the AIRTrain....

----------------

 

Honestly, I don't see what commuters would benefit from a route like this.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

No, the B8

 

The B8 doesn't run anywhere near Fountain Avenue or Gateway Mall.  You meant the Q8.

[Armani]

I know these ideas may sound stupid but why not have the B15 run Limited stop service to JFK airport as well as Local Service. Also, why not have the B14 run two routes. One will operate the regular route and the other will operate between Spring Creek and Flatbush Avenue/Grand Army Plaza. Again these are just ideas i came up with so feel free to answer anytime

[Fresh Pond]

We been through the whole B15 LTD already.

[B35 via Church]

What do you mean by "run two routes" ?