checkmatechamp13 Posted July 24, 2017 Share #4426 Posted July 24, 2017 East New York Avenue better. Better access to Alabama . For the B45. Straight down East New York to help out the 12. I would also like to see the 65 extend to Junction and let that use Park/Prospect to help out that segment. On the return trip East New York to Rochester than regular via Bergen. Eastern Parkway connects to the as well at Broadway Junction, but you're right that Alabama Avenue is easier. The thing with Eastern Parkway is that it's a block away from the B12, so at that point, you might as well have it help out. If it were serving a completely different area, it would be a different story. And taking ENY all the way to Rochester is overkill (Honestly, having the B12/45/65 all heading to Broadway Junction is overkill). If it's helping out the B12 it should be no further west than St. Johns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 24, 2017 Share #4427 Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) The other advantage the B45 has over the B65 is that it's further from the B25 and Fulton Line, so for riders heading towards Broadway Junction, it provides a direct connection (whereas from most areas along the B65, you can walk over to those lines). Less duplicative if you will. BTW, what would the routing be, just straight across St. Johns to ENY Avenue to help the B12 more, or go across Park Place/Prospect Place to ENY Avenue and provide some more coverage in that part of Ocean Hill? Yes, St. John's to ENY av, then the B12 to Alabama .... Aside from helping the B12 (which wouldn't be necessary if buses didn't revert to bunching so much.... Revert, because around the immediate timeframe when the B12 got cutback to Alabama full time, the bunching had pretty much ceased.... Then little by little, they started dicking with the scheduling & things only went downhill from there), it would increase ridership pretty significantly from those that live along/around the current B45 if they knew they'd now have a 1 seat ride to the .... Which is why I'm adamant about those that want to straighten the B12 along Clarkson or whatever, but that's another discussion.... As it is though with the B45, from Downtown, it has a tendency to die at Utica.... Maybe that'll change when Ocean Hill becomes fully gentrified (for those that may wanna take it to the museum, the artsy-fartsy types), who knows..... Be there as it may, I don't have a problem w/ the B65 ending at Ralph from the north.... The B45 ending at Ralph have however, has always felt abrupt to me..... Eastern Parkway connects to the as well at Broadway Junction, but you're right that Alabama Avenue is easier. The thing with Eastern Parkway is that it's a block away from the B12, so at that point, you might as well have it help out. If it were serving a completely different area, it would be a different story. And taking ENY all the way to Rochester is overkill (Honestly, having the B12/45/65 all heading to Broadway Junction is overkill). If it's helping out the B12 it should be no further west than St. Johns. Nah, Eastern Pkwy starts to drift further & further from ENY av around Atlantic (which is where the overpass begins).... Broadway Junction only has 1 entrance & it's on Van Sinderen..... Anyway, to get to the subway, I wouldn't consider running buses along Eastern Pkwy to have them take either: - Broadway (I doubt you can even end another route in front of the subway entrance on Van Sinderen anyway), or.. - Fulton (to Van Sinderen... which is where the B25 should be reverted to terminating at).... Main reason being it's too indirect.... Way I see it, it's either having buses take ENY to Alabama or nothing (meaning, leaving the B45 alone)... Why would the B12 in-particular run up to Broadway Junction exactly? There's no need for that..... Edited July 24, 2017 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted July 24, 2017 Share #4428 Posted July 24, 2017 Eastern Parkway connects to the as well at Broadway Junction, but you're right that Alabama Avenue is easier. The thing with Eastern Parkway is that it's a block away from the B12, so at that point, you might as well have it help out. If it were serving a completely different area, it would be a different story. And taking ENY all the way to Rochester is overkill (Honestly, having the B12/45/65 all heading to Broadway Junction is overkill). If it's helping out the B12 it should be no further west than St. Johns. VALID POINT!!! Only reason why I suggested that was only b/c Bergen doesn't go down past Howard and techically the 65 would have to turn off on Howard to Pacific. Down Pacific to Rochester than return regular. Again, the 65 would go to the Junction during AM/PM rush. While the 45/12 would go at all times. B45 until 1AM, B12 maintains its schedule to Alabama Avenue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 25, 2017 Share #4429 Posted July 25, 2017 Way I see it, it's either having buses take ENY to Alabama or nothing (meaning, leaving the B45 alone)... Why would the B12 in-particular run up to Broadway Junction exactly? There's no need for that..... VALID POINT!!! Only reason why I suggested that was only b/c Bergen doesn't go down past Howard and techically the 65 would have to turn off on Howard to Pacific. Down Pacific to Rochester than return regular. Again, the 65 would go to the Junction during AM/PM rush. While the 45/12 would go at all times. B45 until 1AM, B12 maintains its schedule to Alabama Avenue. (For both of you) I was just referring to the general Broadway Junction area. In other words, having the B12 & B45 running along ENY Avenue full-time, and on top of that, having the B65 run through the northern part of Ocean Hill to reach Broadway Junction (or Alabama Avenue) is overkill, even if the B65 is running rush hours only. Basically, I think it should either be a choice of a straight shot through a fairly busy corridor (ENY Avenue) or providing coverage, but not both. I don't think there's that much demand at this point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted July 27, 2017 Share #4430 Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) I have completed the B69 Map which showcases my proposal for the B69. https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&hl=en&authuser=0&authuser=0&mid=1XFqE_hL6yPBW4ccBYDuHp1sjicA&ll=40.700387933461556%2C-73.9642167111424&z=15 It is under the "B69 Restructuing" Layer, so uncheck everything besides that layer if it isn't unchecked. Essentially, the B69 would operate every 13-15 minutes during the rush, every 33 minutes during the midday hours on weekdays, every 30 minutes during evening hours and weekends. Service would start later and end later on the B69 route (especially towards Park Slope). Currently during the rush, there's a mish-mosh of what bus is more frequent than the other, leading to uneven headways during the rush hour. My proposal would also affect the B67 schedule, as the B67 would be subjected to the same headways as the B69. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another thing: It's easy to get to Downtown Brooklyn from most of Northern Brooklyn, but it is hard to get from Barclays Center to Northern Brooklyn (similar demographics and since north-south travel in that area of the borough is impossible by the subway unless you're near the , it takes multiple transfers or a walk from nearby buses. I don't know exactly if a new bus route should be created from Northern Brooklyn, an extension of a route, or reroute of one route from northern Brooklyn is necessary. Here's what I have in planned (with regards to the three scenarios above) Creating a new route: It's on the link above, and it is called the B66. It runs between Meeker Avenue/Varick Street in Greenpoint and Union Street/3 Avenue in Boerum Hill. The route is preliminary, but I had several disputes: 1) Williamsburg to Greenpoint - Would the B66 follow the route mapped between Nassau Avenue and WBP, or via the B62? A second alternative would be to use Marcy/Rodney Street, to Grand Street, then up Graham Street, backdoor its way to Nassau like that, then use Nassau Avenue. A third alternative would be to extend the route to Sunnyside via my proposed B33 path north of Nassau Avenue (which also replaces the B33, and would basically leave the B43 alone). 2) Fort Greene/Clinton Hill - Would the B66 follow Park Avenue between the BQE and Ashland Place or Myrtle Avenue (between the same distance)? Park Avenue is a better flowing area, but Myrtle Avenue is more commercial. 3) Past Barclays Center - I was thinking that if the B66 perhaps also serve Downtown Brooklyn, it could replace the B62 (under my proposal) to Red Hook. The B62 would still terminate in Downtown Brooklyn. Using this route would reverse many of my proposals in the original post, but as it is I wouldn't recommend it. Extension of a route: It would either be: 1) Extension of the B57 from Downtown Brooklyn to Atlantic-Barclays (although terminal space might be an issue) 2) Extension of the B32 from Williamsburg via BQE Service Road, Vanderbilt Avenue, Atlantic Ave/Dean St to 3 Avenue. Service terminates on 3 Avenue & Atlantic Avenue. Service originates on Dean Street & 3 Avenue. Under this proposal, the B69 reroute would be reverted, and the B32 headways would be enhanced. The issue with this route extension though is that it serves the far west of Northern Brooklyn. I would prefer having a route near Union Avenue (without paralleling the ). Diversion/Rerouting: Either the B57 or the B62 operates as follows from Downtown Brooklyn: NB/EB: Originate on Smith & Livingston Streets, then: left on Fulton Mall, left on Adams Street, left on Atlantic Avenue, left on Fort Greene Place, left on Hanson Place, Right on Ashland Place, right on Park Avenue SB/WB: From Park Avenue & Ashland Place: Take Ashland Place, right on Fulton, right on Fort Greene Place, right on Atlantic Avenue, right on Smith Street, terminate with B61/65. ====================================================================================== I feel like all the options would have some sort of inconvenience, but perhaps the most feasible without having to redistribute headways and buses is the B57 extension. Edited July 27, 2017 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted July 27, 2017 Share #4431 Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) My proposal regarding the B1 and B4 extending the B1 &B4 bus/ possible route modification and minor reroute of the B16 to accomidate extending the B1 bus for the B1 Extended it to shore road in front of Fort Hamilton HS via 86th street from 86th street R station to Relieve the log jam around the 86th Street 4th Ave Area and leave that area clear for SI buses to terminate s53 and s79 will terminate as is Terminal routing Straight on 86th street to shore road to stand infront of Fort Hamilton HS (same place where school trippers stand) Departing Terminal Straight Shore Road Right on 83rd Right On Colonial Left on 86th to proceed on Regular Route Extend B4 to Shore Road or rerouted to stay straight on Bay Ridge PKWY B4 is extended to Shore Road due to terminal change away from residential neighborhood due to resident complaints Terminal Routing Proceed along 78th street to Narrows Ave Left On Narrows blvd to 80th street Right on 80th Right on Shore road to stand (terminal is at 79th street stop & first pick up is at 77th and Shore Road ) Other option of Rerouting it Straight along Bay Ridge Parkway Terminal Routing Straight Along Bay Ridge Parkway from 4th Ave to Shore Road Right on Shore Road to Stand at bus stop(bus stop will be lengthened to accommodate 2 buses) Depart bus stop Right on 74th Street Right on Narrows Ave Left on Bay Ridge Parkway proceed on route b16 reroute to Accomidate B1 Terminal at Shore Road and 86th B16 will be rerouted down Narrows Ave both Directions Reroute Via 86th Street Left on Shore Road b16 stops on Shore Road Southbound relocated onto Narrows Ave redoing the b4 and b36 will come after this Edited July 27, 2017 by BreeddekalbL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted July 27, 2017 Share #4432 Posted July 27, 2017 Rerouting The B4 and B36 switching the routes for the sake of straightening them and on the b4 Eliminate that zig zag at the Sheepshead Bay Station stop and i will also include a b36 reroute to include the straightening and keeping the Hospital Route, to Accommodate a loss of service in b36 option 2 i will extend the b74 route B4 will be straightened along AVE Z and Hospital stop will be along Ave Z and Ocean Parkway Before it crosses Ocean Parkway Eastbound and Will be after it crosses Ocean Parkway Westbound Reroute Regular Route to Avenue Z & Ocean pkwy (including from my possible extension i proposed earlier) Straight along Ave Z to Nostrand Right On Nostrand to Voorhees Ave Left on Voorhees Ave to stand at Current Terminal Departing Terminal going East Right on Shore pkwy North to Nostrand Ave Right on Nostrand to Ave Z Left on Ave Z straight to Ocean Pkwy Cross Ocean Pkwy proceed on current route (including Extension i proposed Earlier) B36 Rerouted for straightening along Neptune Ave and Elimnating the Hospital Stop on Ocean pkwy Straight Along Neptune Ave into Emmons Ave to Nostrand Left on Nostrand Cross Ave Z and Proceed on Regular Route Going Westbound Proceed along Nostrand via Regular Route to Ave Z Cross Ave Z to Emmons Ave Right on Emmons Ave proceed straight along into Neptune Ave to Ocean pkwy Cross Ocean Pkwy and proceed on Current Route b36 rerouted with Hospital Stop on Ocean Pkwy Kept Eastbound Regular Route to Shell Road Left On Shell Road Right on Neptune Left on west 6th street straight into Shell road to Ave Z Right On Ave Z to Ocean pkwy Right On Ocean Pkwy Left On Neptune Ave Straight along Neptune Ave into Emmons Ave Left On Nostrand To Ave Z Cross Ave Z and Regular Route Going Back Westbound Regular Route To Ave Z Cross Ave Z along Nostrand Ave To Emmons Ave Right On Emmons Ave straight into Neptune Ave Right on Neptune Ave to Ave Z Left On Ave Z to Shell Road Right On Shell Road Right on Surf Ave Proceed on Regular Route in b36 option 2 Change to Accommodate Loss of Bus Service at trump Village on W 5th Street i will Extend the b74 to Ocean Pkwy Q train Station Route Eastbound Regular Route to Stillwell Station Via Mermaid Ave Right on Stilwell Ave Left On Surf Ave to W5th Street Straight on W5th Street to Neptune Right On Neptune to Ocean pkwy Ocean Pkwy to stand at W Brighton Ave Route Westbound Right on West Brighton Ave Left On w 5th Street Right on Surf Ave to Stillwell Ave Left On Mermaid Ave Current Route 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interested Rider Posted July 27, 2017 Share #4433 Posted July 27, 2017 Some comments on some of the suggestions concerning the Southern Brooklyn routes: The proposed extension of the B/1 to Shore Road is similar to the B/64 extension that existed soon after the B/64 was converted to bus. It lasted for a couple of years during the early 1950's (Source: Brooklyn Bus routes by Bernard Linder Motor Coach Age (Article is at the Brooklyn Public Library - Brooklyn Division and Queensborough Public Library- Long Island Division). That said, I feel that it should be considered now as it will help to alleviate traffic problems in the area as well as eliminate the need for the B/16 school specials that serve Fort Hamilton High School. The proposals involving the B/4 and B/36 do not take into consideration the riders that take the buses to the subway. By having the B/4 going straight on Bay Ridge Parkway will further erode the passenger base on that route as the riders will not want to walk two blocks to the subway station on 77th Street. It is the same thing at the other end where the B/4 and B/36 route operate and if we add the avoidance of Coney Island Hospital (which is a major traffic generator,for both routes), the routes become useless and become candidates for the cut and eliminate penny saver crowd in their palatial offices. Access to the hospital is a necessity and by diverting bus service from the hospital, it creates a problem for residents on both ends of the B/36 route who pushed for this route change almost 40 years ago. In other words leave it alone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted July 27, 2017 Share #4434 Posted July 27, 2017 Some comments on some of the suggestions concerning the Southern Brooklyn routes: The proposed extension of the B/1 to Shore Road is similar to the B/64 extension that existed soon after the B/64 was converted to bus. It lasted for a couple of years during the early 1950's (Source: Brooklyn Bus routes by Bernard Linder Motor Coach Age (Article is at the Brooklyn Public Library - Brooklyn Division and Queensborough Public Library- Long Island Division). That said, I feel that it should be considered now as it will help to alleviate traffic problems in the area as well as eliminate the need for the B/16 school specials that serve Fort Hamilton High School. Oh, that's not going to fly at all... Sure, the B1 will reduce the number of kids taking buses to 4th Avenue, but you still have a large volume of people using the B16 specials on Fort Hamilton Parkway (which is why they go to 60 St or 36 St in the first place). Having had a periods 1-7 schedule before and having to use the regular B16 (as specials only run after 8th, 9th and 10th periods), I can tell you that the regular B16 and an extended B1 will not provide enough capacity to move all the students that would be taking trippers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted July 27, 2017 Share #4435 Posted July 27, 2017 My proposal regarding the B1 and B4 extending the B1 &B4 bus/ possible route modification and minor reroute of the B16 to accomidate extending the B1 bus Extend B4 to Shore Road or rerouted to stay straight on Bay Ridge PKWY B4 is extended to Shore Road due to terminal change away from residential neighborhood due to resident complaints Terminal Routing Proceed along 78th street to Narrows Ave Left On Narrows blvd to 80th street Right on 80th Right on Shore road to stand (terminal is at 79th street stop & first pick up is at 77th and Shore Road ) Other option of Rerouting it Straight along Bay Ridge Parkway Terminal Routing Straight Along Bay Ridge Parkway from 4th Ave to Shore Road Right on Shore Road to Stand at bus stop(bus stop will be lengthened to accommodate 2 buses) Depart bus stop Right on 74th Street Right on Narrows Ave Left on Bay Ridge Parkway proceed on route b16 reroute to Accomidate B1 Terminal at Shore Road and 86th B16 will be rerouted down Narrows Ave both Directions Reroute Via 86th Street Left on Shore Road b16 stops on Shore Road Southbound relocated onto Narrows Ave Portions bolded are turns that buses cannot make, either due to the angle of the turn required or the elevation of the intersection. In addition to the fact that these changes are completely unnecessary, given the ridership patterns of the two routes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted July 30, 2017 Share #4436 Posted July 30, 2017 Rerouting The B4 and B36 switching the routes for the sake of straightening them and on the b4 Eliminate that zig zag at the Sheepshead Bay Station stop and i will also include a b36 reroute to include the straightening and keeping the Hospital Route, to Accommodate a loss of service in b36 option 2 i will extend the b74 route B4 will be straightened along AVE Z and Hospital stop will be along Ave Z and Ocean Parkway Before it crosses Ocean Parkway Eastbound and Will be after it crosses Ocean Parkway Westbound Reroute Regular Route to Avenue Z & Ocean pkwy (including from my possible extension i proposed earlier) Straight along Ave Z to Nostrand Right On Nostrand to Voorhees Ave Left on Voorhees Ave to stand at Current Terminal Departing Terminal going East Right on Shore pkwy North to Nostrand Ave Right on Nostrand to Ave Z Left on Ave Z straight to Ocean Pkwy Cross Ocean Pkwy proceed on current route (including Extension i proposed Earlier) B36 Rerouted for straightening along Neptune Ave and Elimnating the Hospital Stop on Ocean pkwy Straight Along Neptune Ave into Emmons Ave to Nostrand Left on Nostrand Cross Ave Z and Proceed on Regular Route Going Westbound Proceed along Nostrand via Regular Route to Ave Z Cross Ave Z to Emmons Ave Right on Emmons Ave proceed straight along into Neptune Ave to Ocean pkwy Cross Ocean Pkwy and proceed on Current Route b36 rerouted with Hospital Stop on Ocean Pkwy Kept Eastbound Regular Route to Shell Road Left On Shell Road Right on Neptune Left on west 6th street straight into Shell road to Ave Z Right On Ave Z to Ocean pkwy Right On Ocean Pkwy Left On Neptune Ave Straight along Neptune Ave into Emmons Ave Left On Nostrand To Ave Z Cross Ave Z and Regular Route Going Back Westbound Regular Route To Ave Z Cross Ave Z along Nostrand Ave To Emmons Ave Right On Emmons Ave straight into Neptune Ave Right on Neptune Ave to Ave Z Left On Ave Z to Shell Road Right On Shell Road Right on Surf Ave Proceed on Regular Route in b36 option 2 Change to Accommodate Loss of Bus Service at trump Village on W 5th Street i will Extend the b74 to Ocean Pkwy Q train Station Route Eastbound Regular Route to Stillwell Station Via Mermaid Ave Right on Stilwell Ave Left On Surf Ave to W5th Street Straight on W5th Street to Neptune Right On Neptune to Ocean pkwy Ocean Pkwy to stand at W Brighton Ave Route Westbound Right on West Brighton Ave Left On w 5th Street Right on Surf Ave to Stillwell Ave Left On Mermaid Ave Current Route Needs a map. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted July 30, 2017 Share #4437 Posted July 30, 2017 Some comments on some of the suggestions concerning the Southern Brooklyn routes: The proposed extension of the B/1 to Shore Road is similar to the B/64 extension that existed soon after the B/64 was converted to bus. It lasted for a couple of years during the early 1950's (Source: Brooklyn Bus routes by Bernard Linder Motor Coach Age (Article is at the Brooklyn Public Library - Brooklyn Division and Queensborough Public Library- Long Island Division). That said, I feel that it should be considered now as it will help to alleviate traffic problems in the area as well as eliminate the need for the B/16 school specials that serve Fort Hamilton High School. The proposals involving the B/4 and B/36 do not take into consideration the riders that take the buses to the subway. By having the B/4 going straight on Bay Ridge Parkway will further erode the passenger base on that route as the riders will not want to walk two blocks to the subway station on 77th Street. It is the same thing at the other end where the B/4 and B/36 route operate and if we add the avoidance of Coney Island Hospital (which is a major traffic generator,for both routes), the routes become useless and become candidates for the cut and eliminate penny saver crowd in their palatial offices. Access to the hospital is a necessity and by diverting bus service from the hospital, it creates a problem for residents on both ends of the B/36 route who pushed for this route change almost 40 years ago. In other words leave it alone. I agree. Bus planning is more than looking at a map to straighten routes. The B4 loop at Sheepshead Bay sta that I designed is cumbersome and necessary to serve the station. It allowed the B36 to run straight on Avenue Z and to serve the hospital which is important. Before 1978, both routes were like spaghetti. The B64 only ran one more block to 3 Avenue. It never went to Shore Road. I proposed operating some B1s to Shore Road back in 1978. The problem with running all of them there is the extra cost involved. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 30, 2017 Share #4438 Posted July 30, 2017 B61/B68: Okay, so some points regarding confusion are understandable. The feeling I have though is that even though I have seen more WB/NB ridership along 9 Street than the opposite direction, there are other options which would take riders to destination near/along the B61 faster than the B61 would (or in a similar amount of time). The B63 serves nearby areas of Cobble Hill (and Downtown Brooklyn with a walk), the B67 and B103 serve Downtown Brooklyn. The Downtown Brooklyn loads can take the B67 & B103. Perhaps the B61 can turnaround at 4th Avenue or 5th Avenue, serving 9 Street west of those areas (and then send every other B68 during the daytime, all B68s overnight to IKEA). I wanted to keep the B61 serving the "core" portion of the route (Red Hook and Cobble Hill), but I didn't want to leave 9 Street without anything. The B68 was extended as it was not only nearby, but it would close a gap where it's impossible even with the to get to Red Hook from destinations such as Kensington and most of Windsor Terrace (since the Prospect slices through Windsor Terrace). There really isn't anything going from areas south of Red Hook into Red Hook, even from the slowly gentrifying areas along the B63 and B68, which are slowly growing. Understand that the distance b/w the avenue blocks are quite long... Add to the fact that there's a steep incline b/w 6th & 5th.... You're not going to get those on the 7th av side of Park Slope to take B63's & those on the 5th av side to take B67's..... This explains why you have those on the 7th av side taking B61's directly Downtown, or B67's/B69's to the Brighton (or the select few now that take B67's directly downtown).... Also understand that an average trip on the B61 has buses moving/not stuck in more traffic over B63's (which is another reason Park Slopers on the 7th av end are more apt to taking B61's).... If B67 service wasn't bastardized to the point that it ended up being, along w/ Flatbush av traffic being as nightmarish as it is now w/ Barclay's, you would simply have MUCH more B67 usage b/w Downtown & Park Slope than you do now..... I can understand wanting to connect that pocket of Brooklyn w/ routes from the south, but I would not do it with an extension of the B68.... Outside of any unnecessary prolonging of that route, that side of Prospect Park (PPW) is already served by the B67 & the B69 & anyone coming from nabe's south of Kensington would be already on the anyway... I would look to improve getting to that pocket of Brooklyn (Park Slope, Red Hook, etc) from points south by having a bus route running along the eastern end of the park - and that's why I thought up an idea that entailed a B71 diversion that would have buses running to Prospect Park subway (instead of its old terminal up on Sterling/Rogers, which benefited much of no one).... Connectivity into Park Slope, etc. is FAR worse from the eastern side of Prospect Park than it is from the western side.... The whole thing is akin to the former situation of folks trying to get to (Brooklyn's) Gateway Mall before the B83 extension... As far as serving 9th st (if the end goal is to cutback the B61 on that end to IKEA), I'd much rather bring back the B77 & have it run b/w IKEA & 20th/PPW (instead of stopping dead at 5th/10th) to be a 9th st. crosstown, over extending the B68 along 9th for the same purpose.... One thing that the B61 remedied was the poor service levels 9th st had when the B75 ran along it b/w PPW & Court.... This is another reason you have more Park Slopers pouncing on B61's - as there's much more service provided on it (not to mention it doesn't have to deal w/ Smith/Court)... Then you can have your B61 running b/w IKEA & Williamsburg.... The B103 for Park Slopers, etc. isn't much more than a B37 with a crapton of service that serves the back end of the area & that is exactly how it is used.... As popular as the route is for Canarsie folks, you're not going to sell that route wholesale to Park Slopers, etc. with the B61, 63, 67, & 69 around... As far as they're concerned, it's a route that gets other Brooklynites Downtown that happens to pass through their area.... And not for one second did I ever buy into the fake outrage of some Park Slopers that had issue with the B103 not making stops along 7th & 5th (remember that...).... They didn't want the extra BPH running through the heart of their neighborhood & that's all there was to it..... There was always this weird relationship (or w/e you wanna call it) when the B69 ran along 8th/PPW; it was like the adopted kid that's a part of your family, but he/she's not "blood" (like the B67 is) - if you catch my drift.... Of all the times my father would take me over the weekend (from birth, up until I was like 14 or 15), we NEVER used the B69 for getting to/from the main library (Grand army plz)... We would always bike it out instead..... The whole thing, I sort of compare to the relationship b/w the B8 & the B35 - except the B8 actually gets used on "that side" of the cemetery.... It's just one of those things man.... B67/B69: I want to comment on your comment on unreliability on the B67 following the B69 reroute on 7 Avenue. The issue itself is the B69, because they're both interlined, and the B69 has more runtime and less recovery time than the B67. The B69 often runs late, and even the littlest hiccup will cause delays (that little hiccup which I observe just last Saturday; the B69 left 5 minutes late from Sands Street, and ended up running 15 minutes late. It was when I saw the bus crowded as soon as it turned onto 7th Avenue when I noticed what was going on). If the MTA adds time on the B69 (which it should do), then it would have to rewrite the B67 & B69 schedule. Perhaps then, the two services can run more reliability, while still maintaining service on 7 Avenue as it is. I have a proposal for the B69 (which is one that was brought up earlier on, with my tweaks) should that happen, which still retains some of the original proposal. Agreed... They used the shifting of the B69 onto 7th quite frankly, to justify being frugal.... Quite sure they noticed since there were as many ppl. only taking B67's to the Brighton line (7th av) instead of riding it directly into Downtown, well let's shift the low frequency B69 onto commercial 7th av & shave some service off the B67..... The end result was less overall service along 7th av now (with the combined B67/B69), compared to when the B67 only ran along 7th.... Fiscally, the advantages of interlining is obvious - which is the real reason they ran B69's down to Kensington..... Not for service to new areas or anything of the sort.... Quite frankly, Park Slopers & the rest of those that are represented by CB6 wasn't fooled one bit.... Riders were looking at it from the vantage point of 7th av service only - Go ahead & ask any Park Sloper. Even though I would like for the B71 to be resurrected & ran down to Prospect Park subway, I would have much preferred combining the Vanderbilt portion of the B69 w/ the B71 west of Grand Army, over having shifted the B69 onto 7th.....That portion of the B71 was actually seeing ridership increases before it got axed.... What I'm ultimately getting at (which we're pretty much in agreement with) is that the B69 should've been its own route & not coupled with the B67..... The B69 north of Grand Army is seldom talked about on here..... I do like how Vanderbilt has thrived w/ all the small businesses (south of Atlantic) over the years & what not - but at the same time, that's the portion of Vanderbilt that's gotten just as congested as Myrtle (bike traffic included).... The route (along Vanderbilt) south of Myrtle has seen more utilization per stop as well.... That explains your delays right there - before it ever hits Park Slope.... All in all, I'd like to see the B67 revert to its former service levels & standing along 7th av (meaning, it being the only route running along 7th av) & for the B69 to be sent elsewhere south of Grand Army ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted July 30, 2017 Share #4439 Posted July 30, 2017 I always wondered.. Why the B4 couldn't be under Flatbush? Only reason why I say this is b/c the deadhead to Sheepshead bay isn't really long and possibly interline with the B44 at Emmons. However, is the other terminal close to Gleason or Ulmer Park? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted July 30, 2017 Share #4440 Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) I always wondered.. Why the B4 couldn't be under Flatbush? Only reason why I say this is b/c the deadhead to Sheepshead bay isn't really long and possibly interline with the B44 at Emmons. However, is the other terminal close to Gleason or Ulmer Park? The other terminal is closer to Gleason. My issue is having buses DH like that in the morning. If you look at the schedule, it's scheduled to look like a route that is based out of a depot which is close from the eastern end. Either base it out of Flatbush, or add trips going towards Bay Ridge (which would make it a 24/7 route on weekdays, a 22/7 route on weekends). I know that the Belt is virtually a breeze at those times (and it would not be such an issue if it takes the Belt to DH during those times), so if it uses it, I guess it's not so much of a problem. Edited July 30, 2017 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 30, 2017 Share #4441 Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) 1a) I would keep it for coverage, but at the same time, that part of Brooklyn tends to not use the buses there anyways. The B11 also tends to be lightly used in Borough Park. Many have said before (myself included) that the B16 should serve Maimonides (although the routings tend to be a little different). I have mentioned for the bus to take 49/50 Streets instead of 56/57 Streets (thus covering certain parts of Fort Hamilton, serving Maimonides, and maintaining the connection). Other than that, I don't believe there's much to do. 1b) I thought the B61 could terminate at the stop at Pritchard Square, since it has space for what looks like two buses. However, given how the B61 bunches and the somewhat long layover on that end, it may be problematic. Either way, perhaps 4th or 5th Avenue can be a short-turn for the current route during certain periods. That way, the B61 can terminate smoothly at Pritchard Square, and then the B69 can utilize some space to layover along 19 Street or something. As for the B67 & B69, I would have the B67 since it is the more frequent of the two routes. The B69 would originate on 20 Street & Prospect Park West. Essentially, I would just have the B67 running on its current headways (more or less) on weekdays, and interdependent from the B69. There would be some headway adjustments, so here are the service levels for the B67 route as follows: ** SPOILER ** (duly noted) Essentially, the combined portion in Park Slope would have double the service levels listed above. 2) With relation to the B67/B69, I will just cut it back on the southern side up to Church Avenue (B67) or 20 Street (B69). I have a modified proposal for the B69, as it will no longer be heavily interlined with the B67 (so both routes provide more reliable service). 3) Definetly agree with that, and I think a B48 extension would probably help, in the sense that it would connect Sunnyside with parts of southern Greenpoint, Williamsburg, Bed-Stuy, and Lefferts Gardens, where there are some more gentrified establishments, and so on. 4) Is your issue with my B16 proposal based on the route serving the , or the route using Parkside Avenue. Additionally, I would like to add that while I have seen people get off at the , on the weekends, ridership on the segment is not really high (although traffic is higher). On weekdays, I have seen more people along Caton on those B16's, but traffic is an issue, which is why I feel something should be done about the B16 using Caton Avenue. I guess it can still serve (nearby) Fort Hamilton Parkway on the instead of at Church Avenue (since the gives riders access to 6 Avenue anyways). So regarding the B69, I have changed the proposal to where it would now run between Williamsburg and Park Slope/Windsor Terrace/Whatever the area by the B61 layover is called. I will have a route map for the route soon. Originally, I was going to extend the B32 down to Grand Army Plaza while still having B69's run along Vanderbilt to provide more service(and then via Union Street to Columbia Street as a temporary solution until the B71 is brought back), but I ultimately canned that. 1a) I'm one of those people.... I say that the B16 should run across Ft. Hamilton to 39th st, then 39th to 12th av, to regular route..... Give 13th/14th ave's a coverage route & call it a day.... More could have been made of the B23 IMO..... 1b) Short turning B61's at 5th/10th right at the beginning of, and throughout the PM rush might not be a bad idea (4th won't be enough IMO).... Cutting the B69 back to the current B61 terminal full time (over the B67) I can agree with - as long as the B67 wouldn't maintain current service levels south of PPW..... 2) Yes, as alluded to in my earlier post, the two routes shouldn't be interlined.... I'll check out your updated proposal after I finish replying to this one.... 3) I'm not too sure if Sunnyside wants access to more of Brooklyn (meaning, past, say.... Williamsburg).... If Sunnyside would a] welcome & b] benefit from a B48 extension, then I have no qualms.... From the vantage point of a Brooklynite though, using a route like the B24 to get to the is the pits.... Even an extended B48 would be an improvement & that's saying quite a bit - as the B48 service-wise aint too great in its own right..... But generally speaking, that neighborhood is being stymied by more than just its poor surface transit options.... side note: I'm not exactly complaining with this (as I benefit greatly from it), but I find that there are too few Brooklynites (that don't live in Greenpoint or Wms'burg) that aren't taking advantage of the Manhattan bypass a.k.a. the - and instead, are putting up with riding through midtown & lower Manhattan & the crowding that any train serving Manhattan will always end up accumulating/absorbing..... I can't remember the last time I took the past QBP & I'm not even trying to be funny.... While ideal/fictional, a "Triboro Rx" needs to happen like, yesterday..... Latent demand clearly exists. 4) Aside from your justification for moving the B16 off Caton... I don't have a problem with the B16 serving the , I have a problem with the ramifications of the B16 serving the ..... I never mentioned this in earlier posts (since the focal point was about Caton), but I also think that B16 should serve that pocket west of McDonald along 12th av (I can never remember the name of that immediate area... Many call it Kensington, but it's not Kensington).... If the B16 serves Church av , it avoids that immediate area in question completely..... If the B16 serves Ft. Hamilton Pkwy , it makes for an inconvenient xfer to the actual station (ever boarded or gotten off at that station?) on top of the fact that its more proximate to Parkside than Caton..... You're not wrong that weekend usage is low along Caton, but do you really believe usage would be any higher along Parkside???? As to your B69 modification... again, I'll have a look at it. Edited July 30, 2017 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 31, 2017 Share #4442 Posted July 31, 2017 The B64 only ran one more block to 3 Avenue. It never went to Shore Road. I proposed operating some B1s to Shore Road back in 1978. The problem with running all of them there is the extra cost involved. As far as I remember, back in 2010, it was a simple switch of the B1/B64 terminals. The B64 ran to 4th & 86th for as long as I can remember before then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted July 31, 2017 Share #4443 Posted July 31, 2017 As far as I remember, back in 2010, it was a simple switch of the B1/B64 terminals. The B64 ran to 4th & 86th for as long as I can remember before then. There was a point where the turn around for the B64 was 86th to 3rd to 88th to 4th to 86th rather than the current 86th to 5th to 87th to 4th to 86th. I think I may have a schedule for that somewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interested Rider Posted July 31, 2017 Share #4444 Posted July 31, 2017 Pardon me as I feel that a clarification of my comments concerning a statement that I write here is needed. Whenever I write a statement that may be challenged as I wrote involving the B/64, I give the citation and where it can be found along with any additional information as to which local library has the material. The B/64 extension to Shore Road was in the early 1960's and it was changed to 4th Avenue after a couple of years (mid 1950's). The source is from the article on Brooklyn Buses written by Bernard Linder in Motor Coach Age in the late 1960's or early 1970's.back pages where Mr. Linder listed every route that ran in the borough, its date of conversion from streetcar (or otherwise) and all changes to the route since its inception. up to the time that the article was written. For those of you who are my fellow writers on this forum and are interested in further information on the subject, I suggest that you take the time to look for the articles that Mr. Linder published not only on Brooklyn but Queens or Staten island but his series on the private companies in Manhattan such 5th Avenue Coach, Surface Transit and his great article on MABSTOA ten years after its inception. All of his articles are quite comprehensive with route histories as well as complete equipment rosters and transfers of buses between companies., along with renumbers of the equipment .I used to have the articles but unfortunately they have been lost over many years. If you want to read the Brooklyn or Queens articles please visit the Long Island Division of the Queensborough .Public Library which has it along with other articles on the private bus lines in Queens. The main library on 42nd Street in Manhattan should have the articles on the 5th Avenue Coach and the other companies. All of the articles are Reference only and therefore available for reading in the library only. Some limited copy services are available at the libraries so that selected material such as route rosters could be copied at a charge set by the library. There is one problem with these articles as the material needs to be updated from the date of publication to the present and for those forum members who would like to do a project such as this which involves 45 -50 years of updating, I would suggest that you contact the Motor Bus Society to find out if any members are already doing the work. This is the one major part of transit history where a complete history is sorely needed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted July 31, 2017 Share #4445 Posted July 31, 2017 The other terminal is closer to Gleason. My issue is having buses DH like that in the morning. If you look at the schedule, it's scheduled to look like a route that is based out of a depot which is close from the eastern end. Either base it out of Flatbush, or add trips going towards Bay Ridge (which would make it a 24/7 route on weekdays, a 22/7 route on weekends). I know that the Belt is virtually a breeze at those times (and it would not be such an issue if it takes the Belt to DH during those times), so if it uses it, I guess it's not so much of a problem. The deadhead is definitely not bad. Either the Belt or Avenue U to Knapp Street straight across to Emmons Avenue. I'm going to study the B4 bus map in regards to what your telling me. I've read from others that the B4 when it ran out of Ulmer Park posed so many reliability problems than when it came over to Gleason. However, only reason i asked about it only b/c of possible interlines with the B44 and possibly the B49 at KCC // Sheepshead Bay Road. The same thing I would ask about the B36 but that's another topic for another day. Similar situation, but I guess that the schedule for that is made to be at Ulmer Park, but its western part is closer to Flatbush and interlining with the B44. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted August 1, 2017 Share #4446 Posted August 1, 2017 As far as I remember, back in 2010, it was a simple switch of the B1/B64 terminals. The B64 ran to 4th & 86th for as long as I can remember before then. Yes, I read once that it terminated at Third Avenue when it was still a streetcar or shortly after it was converted to bus. Then it terminated at 4th Avenue. I was not aware that it was extended in the early 1960s to Shore Road as Interested Rider stated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted August 2, 2017 Share #4447 Posted August 2, 2017 Needs a map. as you requested https://drive.google.com/open?id=1b5NHorR1vV86y_kVlFqE3xpdpGA&usp=sharing also while i am here what is the headway on the b41 bergen beach and b41 kings plaza branches also how many buses are there between the 2 branches 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 3, 2017 Share #4448 Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) My proposal regarding the B1 and B4 extending the B1 &B4 bus/ possible route modification and minor reroute of the B16 to accomidate extending the B1 bus for the B1 Extended it to shore road in front of Fort Hamilton HS via 86th street from 86th street R station to Relieve the log jam around the 86th Street 4th Ave Area and leave that area clear for SI buses to terminate s53 and s79 will terminate as is Terminal routing ** routing ** Extend B4 to Shore Road or rerouted to stay straight on Bay Ridge PKWY B4 is extended to Shore Road due to terminal change away from residential neighborhood due to resident complaints Terminal Routing ** routing ** Other option of Rerouting it Straight along Bay Ridge Parkway Terminal Routing ** routing ** b16 reroute to Accomidate B1 Terminal at Shore Road and 86th B16 will be rerouted down Narrows Ave both Directions ** routing ** redoing the b4 and b36 will come after this 1) B1 should stay right where it is.... As for clear for SI buses to terminate? It doesn't interfere with any of the SI routes where it terminates... (S79 terminates on 4th av b/w 86th & 87th - NB direction... S53 terminates on 4th av b/w 86th & 87th - SB direction... S93 terminates on 4th av, just south of 87th st - SB direction... ....B1's last dropoff is on 87th st at 4th av... B1's first pickup is on 86th st, just east of 4th av...) The only thing the KCC bound B1 interferes with, is the Lefferts Gdns. bound B16.... The first pickup stop of the B1 is a shared stop with the B16 in that direction... 2) Don't see the point either way (either of your B4 reroute options); buses would still terminate in the same general residential area.... So you'll hear complaints from Misses Teagarden & her neighbors instead of Mister Schultz & his..... Those are still all SFR's over there... God forbid you block off their express with an idle local bus.... Basically, a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.... 3) Thoretically speaking, I agree with you that B16's should run bi-directionally along Narrows down there... Realistically speaking though, I wouldn't want a bus making that left off of Narrows onto Shore rd. SB.... Apparently, neither does the MTA - and I agree.... That turn shouldn't even be legal.... Rerouting The B4 and B36 switching the routes for the sake of straightening them and on the b4 Eliminate that zig zag at the Sheepshead Bay Station stop and i will also include a b36 reroute to include the straightening and keeping the Hospital Route, to Accommodate a loss of service in b36 option 2 i will extend the b74 route B4 will be straightened along AVE Z and Hospital stop will be along Ave Z and Ocean Parkway Before it crosses Ocean Parkway Eastbound and Will be after it crosses Ocean Parkway Westbound ** routing ** B36 Rerouted for straightening along Neptune Ave and Elimnating the Hospital Stop on Ocean pkwy ** routing ** b36 rerouted with Hospital Stop on Ocean Pkwy Kept ** routing ** in b36 option 2 Change to Accommodate Loss of Bus Service at trump Village on W 5th Street i will Extend the b74 to Ocean Pkwy Q train Station Route Eastbound ** routing ** Yeah.... Simply put, the problem with the network down there is that service on Neptune is piece-mealed like a motherfu**er.... However, it's far too counter-productive to end up turning the B36 into a mere coverage route for the sake of straightening things out in that part of CB 15 territory with the 2 routes (B4, B36).... Having Sheepshead bound B36's run down Ocean Pkwy & run clear along Neptune/Emmons to Nostrand is exactly what that'd entail..... The B4 gets to serve the Brighton line in Sheepshead, but the B36 completely avoids it? Bear in mind that for as erratic as the (real) B36 runs, it still gets more service than the B4 - Significantly more service! And you can't increase B4 service as a compromise, as that would grossly overserve Bay Ridge pkwy..... Lastly, extending the B74 to Ocean Pkwy as some sort of compromise accomplishes absolutely nothing for those folks down in the Trump Village apts.... They're not trying to get deeper into Coney Island, they're trying to get up towards the hospital & over towards Sheepshead..... .....what is the headway on the b41 bergen beach and b41 kings plaza branches also how many buses are there between the 2 branches Don't know how many buses there are, but here are the headways: (Credit to "B35 via Church" for the formatting) Edited August 3, 2017 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted August 3, 2017 Share #4449 Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) Don't know how many buses there are, but here are the headways: (Credit to "B35 via Church" for the formatting) ok thanks i kind was asking what is the headway when both branches are unified from downtown to where they split off cause i was doing a what if scenario what if there was political pressure to i guess say split the b41 branches into it's own routes how should the be labeled? Edited August 3, 2017 by BreeddekalbL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3F Posted August 3, 2017 Share #4450 Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) Does anyone know how long the X29 took to get from South Midwood (let's say Kings Highway) to points in Manhattan? The train is fairly quick, so I'm interested to find out if the express bus (which had to wade through expressway traffic) was actually faster than the express train. I guess the BM3 is in a similar situation. Edited August 3, 2017 by P3F 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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