L train to bay ridge?

[Roadcruiser1]

There are other hurdles to the Triboro RX. The ROW north of the Canarsie Line is owned by Amtrak and CSX. That is why there are so many problems with the Hell Gate Bridge idea, and etc. It isn't owned by the . You can't run something on something that doesn't belong to you. This also brings a new problem. You can't convert the current ROW into a subway ROW because it's owned by different companies. It makes it harder. This idea is pratically impossible unless if the buys the ROW from Amtrak and CSX, but it's next to impossible, because this ROW is part of the more important Northeast Corridor allowing trains to run from Washington DC to Boston. This nearly kills the idea of the Triboro RX. I understand that we need mass transit, but the situation makes this option difficult if not next to impossible,

[Kamen Rider]

People need to get "subway on the bay ridge" out of their heads. BY FEDERAL LAW, a railroad and a rapid transit line can't share the same ROW at the same time.

 

Now, if you wanted to run passenger railroad trains, that would be a diffrent matter.

[CDTA]

People need to get "subway on the bay ridge" out of their heads. BY FEDERAL LAW, a railroad and a rapid transit line can't share the same ROW at the same time.

 

Now, if you wanted to run passenger railroad trains, that would be a diffrent matter.

 

 

If you had read his earlier post, he just wanted to use the structure of the area, not the tracks themselves.

[Kamen Rider]

A railroad and a subway can't share a Right of Way.

[CenSin]

A railroad and a subway can't share a Right of Way.

The Federal Railroad Administration requires a certain distance between freight and passenger trains that share rights of way, but does not prohibit them.

[Vistausss]

The Federal Railroad Administration requires a certain distance between freight and passenger trains that share rights of way, but does not prohibit them.

 

Indeed.

[kingal11234]

While I agree that there should be a line along that Triboro ROW or whatever, it should definitely not be an extension of the . The whole point of the new line is to improve cross-borough and interborough travel, whereas the point of the is to connect the areas along the route to Manhattan.

 

The line should not be changed. No extending the B42 to (what is it? Livonia Avenue) to replace it further north, no splitting the headways like they do with the , no creating a shuttle from Canarsie to Livonia Avenue, or any of that BS.

 

The Triboro RX line is meant to be a seperate line that'll eventually (assuming it ever gets built) go up to The Bronx. If they can only build the Brooklyn segment, it should be a seperate line.

 

There's no point in sending the to Bay Ridge because the point would be to go to Manhattan. There are already subway alternatives for most areas, except maybe Flatlands, so what's the point in extending the line and making it more delay-prone, when there's no net gain. You benefit Flatlands riders, but you screw over Canarsie riders, so what have you really accomplished?

 

For intraborough, cross-Brooklyn travel, it would be useful, but there's no need to have the do that. You can just have a seperate line (the (X) or whatever you want to call it) cover cross-Brooklyn travel, while the focuses on bringing riders to Manhattan.

 

 

 

Actually, the population in Flatlands has remained stagnant and even decreased in some parts (see here). The fastest-growing areas are more in the northern and western parts of Brooklyn.

 

Not that it really disproves your point, because the bus routes in that area are still well-used. In fact, you can argue that part of the reason why there hasn't been much population growth is because of the lack of subway service.

 

There are other hurdles to the Triboro RX. The ROW north of the Canarsie Line is owned by Amtrak and CSX. That is why there are so many problems with the Hell Gate Bridge idea, and etc. It isn't owned by the . You can't run something on something that doesn't belong to you. This also brings a new problem. You can't convert the current ROW into a subway ROW because it's owned by different companies. It makes it harder. This idea is pratically impossible unless if the buys the ROW from Amtrak and CSX, but it's next to impossible, because this ROW is part of the more important Northeast Corridor allowing trains to run from Washington DC to Boston. This nearly kills the idea of the Triboro RX. I understand that we need mass transit, but the situation makes this option difficult if not next to impossible,

 

People need to get "subway on the bay ridge" out of their heads. BY FEDERAL LAW, a railroad and a rapid transit line can't share the same ROW at the same time.

 

Now, if you wanted to run passenger railroad trains, that would be a diffrent matter.

 

The reason why i asked about the L train extension is because the other routes present massive hurdles, while the L at least doesnt seem to. I would love to see a Triboro service, but if this service is going to be built it would cost more to build as a commuter line than a subway because you could not connect it to the L or the N train forcing the MTA to build 9 stations it would not have to build if it were a subway. But building a triboro subway is fine until u get to the Hells Gate Bridge. Now the Bridge has 4 tracks and is owned by Amtrack. Amtrack uses 2 tracks whil csx uses one. In order to have this for subway use you would have to convince amtrack and csx to share one pair of tracks. That would probably not be a problem if it werent for the fact that the mta was planning to put Metro North on the Bridge as well. Now it might be a stretch to convince amtrak to share its tracks with Metro North and CSX. I f the MTA cancels plans to bring Metro North over the bridge than the triboro train could operate across. but otherwise you would have to widen the bridge to accomodate six tracks. In addition to this challenge is the challenge of the Port Morris branch. The branch is underdeveloped, filled with garbage and very narrow. To build here would be very expensive.

[kingal11234]

While I agree that there should be a line along that Triboro ROW or whatever, it should definitely not be an extension of the . The whole point of the new line is to improve cross-borough and interborough travel, whereas the point of the is to connect the areas along the route to Manhattan.

 

The line should not be changed. No extending the B42 to (what is it? Livonia Avenue) to replace it further north, no splitting the headways like they do with the , no creating a shuttle from Canarsie to Livonia Avenue, or any of that BS.

 

The Triboro RX line is meant to be a seperate line that'll eventually (assuming it ever gets built) go up to The Bronx. If they can only build the Brooklyn segment, it should be a seperate line.

 

There's no point in sending the to Bay Ridge because the point would be to go to Manhattan. There are already subway alternatives for most areas, except maybe Flatlands, so what's the point in extending the line and making it more delay-prone, when there's no net gain. You benefit Flatlands riders, but you screw over Canarsie riders, so what have you really accomplished?

 

For intraborough, cross-Brooklyn travel, it would be useful, but there's no need to have the do that. You can just have a seperate line (the (X) or whatever you want to call it) cover cross-Brooklyn travel, while the focuses on bringing riders to Manhattan.

 

 

 

Actually, the population in Flatlands has remained stagnant and even decreased in some parts (see here). The fastest-growing areas are more in the northern and western parts of Brooklyn.

 

Not that it really disproves your point, because the bus routes in that area are still well-used. In fact, you can argue that part of the reason why there hasn't been much population growth is because of the lack of subway service.

 

There are other hurdles to the Triboro RX. The ROW north of the Canarsie Line is owned by Amtrak and CSX. That is why there are so many problems with the Hell Gate Bridge idea, and etc. It isn't owned by the . You can't run something on something that doesn't belong to you. This also brings a new problem. You can't convert the current ROW into a subway ROW because it's owned by different companies. It makes it harder. This idea is pratically impossible unless if the buys the ROW from Amtrak and CSX, but it's next to impossible, because this ROW is part of the more important Northeast Corridor allowing trains to run from Washington DC to Boston. This nearly kills the idea of the Triboro RX. I understand that we need mass transit, but the situation makes this option difficult if not next to impossible,

 

People need to get "subway on the bay ridge" out of their heads. BY FEDERAL LAW, a railroad and a rapid transit line can't share the same ROW at the same time.

 

Now, if you wanted to run passenger railroad trains, that would be a diffrent matter.

 

The reason why i asked about the L train extension is because the other routes present massive hurdles, while the L at least doesnt seem to. I would love to see a Triboro service, but if this service is going to be built it would cost more to build as a commuter line than a subway because you could not connect it to the L or the N train forcing the MTA to build 9 stations it would not have to build if it were a subway. But building a triboro subway is fine until u get to the Hells Gate Bridge. Now the Bridge has 4 tracks and is owned by Amtrack. Amtrack uses 2 tracks whil csx uses one. In order to have this for subway use you would have to convince amtrack and csx to share one pair of tracks. That would probably not be a problem if it werent for the fact that the mta was planning to put Metro North on the Bridge as well. Now it might be a stretch to convince amtrak to share its tracks with Metro North and CSX. I f the MTA cancels plans to bring Metro North over the bridge than the triboro train could operate across. but otherwise you would have to widen the bridge to accomodate six tracks. In addition to this challenge is the challenge of the Port Morris branch. The branch is underdeveloped, filled with garbage and very narrow. To build here would be very expensive.

[Kamen Rider]

The reason why i asked about the L train extension is because the other routes present massive hurdles,while the L at least doesnt seem to.

 

yes, and messing with the MTA's most expensive techonolgical investment ever isn't a hurdle at all...

 

I would love to see a Triboro service, but if this service is going to be built it would cost more to build as a commuter line than a subway because you could not connect it to the L or the N train forcing the MTA to build 9 stations it would not have to build if it were a subway.

 

The commuter line would be cheaper, quicker and more practical because it would not require major infrastucture investments. double track the line, install some platforms and BOOM, you got yourself a rail line.

 

 

But building a triboro subway is fine until u get to the Hells Gate Bridge.

 

it's not "fine". have you seen the Freemont Secondary? it was only ever built as 2 tracks

 

Now the Bridge has 4 tracks and is owned by Amtrack.

 

There is no C in Amtrak.

 

Amtrack uses 2 tracks whil csx uses one. In order to have this for subway use you would have to convince amtrack and csx to share one pair of tracks.

 

You would have to build yourself your own bridge!

 

That would probably not be a problem if it werent for the fact that the mta was planning to put Metro North on the Bridge as well.

 

I really don't think the issue would be Amtrak sharing with Metro-North. getting a 50 car CSX move up and over; there's your problem.

 

Now it might be a stretch to convince amtrak to share its tracks with Metro North and CSX.

 

have you ever ridden the New Haven Line?

 

If the MTA cancels plans to bring Metro North over the bridge than the triboro train could operate across.

 

A ≠ B. the MTA already sends trains over the bridge for Football games, so there is a basis for such an agreement.

 

but otherwise you would have to widen the bridge to accomodate six tracks.

 

which is impossible anyway...

 

In addition to this challenge is the challenge of the Port Morris branch. The branch is underdeveloped, filled with garbage and very narrow. To build here would be very expensive.

 

Port Morris is only about as wide as the widest parts of the rest of the line....

 

assuming you could use the right of way for the subway, the tracks for one service would need to zig and zag around the tracks for the other. subway tracks would need to be on the left side of the freight tracks for Freemont Junction (where MTA ownership ends and CSX starts) to allow trains up and down the yard lead to the Montauk line, on the right side where Freemont meets the Connecting Railroad, so freights could merge onto the NEC tracks, and back to the left side in the bronx, to avoid blocking Port Morris Yard. a railroad train would not need to do any of that since thay would share the same tracks, and that would mean it would have a MUCH smaller footprint.

 

I think part of the problem is you don't understand the legal definitions the government sets. lets look at PATH. PATH is not a subway, it's not a rapid transit line, PATH is a railroad. PATH can and does share it's right of way with mainline trains. PATH used to share track with them as well. Build this line like PATH, you could close to everything you want with it and not run afowl of the federal government

[Vistausss]

@Kamen: Or instead of PATH they could built it the same way as SIRT (Staten Island Rapid Transit) which is some sort of combination b/w subway cars with railway signals and stuff?

[itmaybeokay]

Kamen, there is an unused trackway on the bridge. I'm not sure it would be efficient to single track over that whole thing but technically it would be possible to use hell gate. Not to split hairs.

[Kamen Rider]

Railroad tracks and rapid transit tracks can't be in that close proximity. and single tracking over a 3 mile long bridge...

[TwoTimer]

LMAO @ this thread. I was wondering when this whole RX thing was going to jump off again

[CDTA]

@Everybody saying wait for the RX to be built

 

That's like saying we shouldn't send the to 96th St, because the will be built eventually.

[trainfan22]

If Transit service ever got put on the Bay Ridge line, it should be light rail, like NJT's Riverline, have Transit use the line during the day, Freights at night.

[Art Vandelay]

The distance between FRA and non FRA tracks is not required to be very substantial at all. Furthermore, FRA exemptions have become much easier to get, should some track sharing agreement be made.

 

Also, the farthest the Bay Ridge branch gets from the current Canarsie is two blocks. Nothing would prevent stations from replacing them directly, as was the plan in the 1970s. The plan was for the current L to be abandoned, with L trains following two branches, one in each direction along the Bay Ridge line.

 

I am not saying such is necessarily a good idea, but it is far from impossible.

[CDTA]

And for those against split branches, there could be two separate lines, which would increase the amount of trains on the mainline.

[checkmatechamp13]

The reason why i asked about the L train extension is because the other routes present massive hurdles, while the L at least doesnt seem to.

 

 

You could just terminate that train at Livonia Avenue or something like that. (Find a way to add a third track to terminate the trains on in that area). But there's no need for a Bay Ridge - 14th Street/8th Avenue Line.

 

And for those against split branches, there could be two separate lines, which would increase the amount of trains on the mainline.

 

 

That's the same idea. You're either doubling the amount of trains on the mainline (which uses up more capacity and costs more money), or reducing service at the end of the route. Neither is a good plan in this case, because the only area that would possibly benefit from this setup is Flatlands.

[CDTA]

You could just terminate that train at Livonia Avenue or something like that. (Find a way to add a third track to terminate the trains on in that area). But there's no need for a Bay Ridge - 14th Street/8th Avenue Line.

 

 

 

That's the same idea. You're either doubling the amount of trains on the mainline (which uses up more capacity and costs more money), or reducing service at the end of the route. Neither is a good plan in this case, because the only area that would possibly benefit from this setup is Flatlands.

 

 

No, the is packed as hell pretty much all the time except for 1AM-5AM. If nessecary, you could install a new switch and have the trains be able to terminate on the 6th Ave layup track, so that 8th Ave won't be over capacity.

[Roadcruiser1]

It is currently only possible to use the Bay Ridge Branch from the Canarsie Line to Bay Ridge. Any longer options would be impossible due to the fact that those sections are currently owned by Amtrak and CSX.

 

Theoretically it is possible to run a train from the Canarsie Line down most of the route, but have it split so it would merge with the Bay Ridge Branch and run on down to Bay Ridge. It would create a cross Brooklyn route running from 14th Street to 59th Street with provisions for a Staten Island tunnel for the future. This would use mostly existing ROW, but the Bay Ridge Branch section would require new infrastructure since none exists.

[CenSin]

Any longer options would be impossible due to the fact that those sections are currently owned by Amtrak and CSX.

Looks like someone didn't get the memo…

• Physical impediments: 0

• Paperwork: 1

 

Impossible is only for those who are afraid of lobbying and paperwork. Get politicians on board and possibilities are boundless. (Example: The PATRIOT Act is theoretically illegal—and thus, "impossible"—under the constitution, but it has been passed anyway.)

[qjtransitmaster]

Nope it's all owned by LIRR actually CSX is simply allowed to run there. So It is better to leave the alone and reactivate Bay ridge branch as it's own railway line but to avoid impeding on amtrak truncate it at jackson heights.

 

Create an SI tunnel for maximum impact let SIR extend into brooklyn then run on bay ridge branch until jackson heights. If money can be added then extension to LGA. If the airlines can pay for it.

[Brooklyn]

Looks like someone didn't get the memo…

• Physical impediments: 0

• Paperwork: 1

 

 

 

Yup....

 

It basically comes down to paperwork but also WILL....

 

Unfortunately, it seems that there needs to be a Robert Moses type figure given power to do some of these things.

 

For the life of me, I cannot understand how the Old LIRR Bay Ridge and the Rockaway Branches are inactive (to passengers)...

I mean, the right of way is there--the need is there. Yet they both are inactive--I just don't get it.

 

Yes, I know about the politics and NIMBYs--but still. It's frustrating.

[qjtransitmaster]

Yup....

 

It basically comes down to paperwork but also WILL....

 

Unfortunately, it seems that there needs to be a Robert Moses type figure given power to do some of these things.

 

For the life of me, I cannot understand how the Old LIRR Bay Ridge and the Rockaway Branches are inactive (to passengers)...

I mean, the right of way is there--the need is there. Yet they both are inactive--I just don't get it.

 

Yes, I know about the politics and NIMBYs--but still. It's frustrating.

 

Interesting I will study more about robert moses I have an idea that may work.

[Kamen Rider]

Nope it's all owned by LIRR actually CSX is simply allowed to run there.

 

No, CSX ownes the line between the bridge over the Montauk and the Junction with the NEC. It got it when it and NS split Conrail. I go past it all the time, and all the signs say owner: CSX.