Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As long as we are on the Bx10, the only change I feel that would be logical is extending the Bx10 to Gun hill road and swiich the Bx10 and Bx28 routes from there to Bedford Park. In my proposal, the Bx10 would be split into two branches. One would run weekdays via the normal route to BEDFORD PARK ONLY and the other to Gun Hill Road at all times, bypassing Bedford Park.

No No No... The Bx10 runs poorly enough as it is.  I do NOT support any further extensions.  It serves its purpose already, which is a semi-cross town to connect Riverdale to Northeast areas of the Bronx and Montefiore and that's all it is there for.  Folks who need Lehman College, hospital workers at Montefiore that live in Riverdale, etc.  Any more extensions will just the make the route worse than what it is.  If anything, I would support more short turned buses from 231st and Broadway to Riverdale.  You also have some folks that use the Bx10 on weekends for the Spuyten Duyvil station, particularly on the Southbound trips.  Not a large # by any means, but still a few here and there.  Given how infrequent the buses can run and how unreliable they can be (weekends included), it can be a pain trying to link up with those Metro-North trains.  When I don't feel like walking up all of the hills, I will take shortcuts from the Spuyten Duyvil station which consists of climbing a ton of stairs and then a few steep hills, and then more stairs until I finally get a Bx10 stop, and it seems as if buses are set up just to miss me.  

 

One idea that I do like is cutting the Bx10 back to 246th and Henry Hudson Parkway.  The only problem with that is that there are some people who do use it from North Riverdale to South Riverdale, which would force them to make a transfer from the Bx7, otherwise it isn't a bad idea to cut some of them back, perhaps during the week.  The Bx20 is lovely for this reason.  The buses tend to be more prompt Southbound, and when the Hudson Rail Link buses are too packed, I will opt for the Bx20 and walk to the Spuyten Duyvil station from there.  Routes like the Bx20 ensure prompt service for most of Riverdale, and we don't have our services overrun with the folks from Westchester who pack up the Bx7 buses in the morning.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

 

 

- The Bx22 is basically a route that carries a lot of folks b/w [Castle Hill & the ] & [Parkchester & Fordham rd].... You also have a moderate amt. of Castle Hill patrons riding all the way out to Fordham.... That said, the #1 problem I have with the route is that there's too much service to Lehman Coll.... It being a full time artic route is probably 3rd or 4th on the list (the 2nd is, the route being a complete waste of time serving as much of Fordham rd. that it does... and on top of it, doing much of nothing to quell the loads on the Bx12).... If fordham was a fast corridor, I'd understand, but it's anything but.....

 

Since we're talking about artics on the Bx22.... I guess I'll revisit an old idea I had, which was to:

- Cut back the Bx9 to Kelly/Keith Towers (E. 187th/Southern)

- Cut back the Bx22 to Fordham/Valentine (all trips)... Also, modify the routing to where buses would run along E. Tremont av after having served Parkchester - to then take over the current Bx9 portion within the neighborhoods of West Farms & East Tremont....

 

That would justify running artics on the Bx22 much more so than the current route....

It looks like the Bx22 would lose it's overlap with the Bx39 on WPR and the Bx9 on Kingsbridge under this plan. I can't support that. Also despite Bx12 crowding the mere existence of the Bx22 and Bx9 (more so) along Fordham Road work to make things a little easier. Without those two routes you would have a lot more people taking the Bx12 and transferring at either the Concourse or Jerome for northward travel. 

[Q43 Floral Park]

No No No... The Bx10 runs poorly enough as it is.  I do NOT support any further extensions.  

 

This. 

 

Here's a thought...

 

From Riverdale using the current route to Jerome & 205th, then Jerome, right Van Cortlandt Avenue East, left Bainbridge, right Gun Hill, to White Plains Road. That would open up transfer opportunities to/from the    and    while keeping the existing route length (approximately) and still serving everything that the route serves now.

 

(This idea is inspired by a short-lived proposal in the early-to-late 1990's to restructure a few Bronx routes, including a combined    /    between Riverdale and Co-op City.)

 

You had me until you threw Gun Hill Rd into the mix. That routing to Woodlawn as B35 said would be fine, just take it off 205 St west of Jerome. 

 

3. Depends on what the peak load point is. Maybe those extra 2.5 BPH are only necessary between Riverdale and the  .

 

6. Before you explained the thing about Bailey Avenue, I was referring to the sole notion that a longer route means it's more unreliable. So in other words, if you're worried about Cross-Bronx routes being so unreliable, you should advocate for cutting the Bx28 back to Norwood so it doesn't have to deal with all those extra turns, and traffic in the Fordham area.

 

And the Bx38 runs to Norwood on the weekends. With the exception of a few trips on Sunday evenings, the primary pattern is Bx28: Fordham-Co-Op City and Bx38 Norwood-Bay Plaza.

 

It's for the purposes of straightening the route out and allowing for quicker access to the   and the rest of the line in Norwood. Trippers would definitely be provided using the resources saved.

 

3. The AM Riverdale-231 runs start towards the end of rush hour (after 8:21) and it seems to be more so to cut service down to midday levels, I'd argue that all 10 buses are needed along the whole route for at least for the 7-8am hour. 

 

6. My concern is connectivity over reliability. So the Bx26 extension isn't just unreliable, it gains less connections than the Bx10 is losing and MTA isn't going to offer up 2 xfers.

 

Bx26 was the main bus from Co-op City-Fordham through the 90s not the Bx28 but one had to be cut. cutting the other now doesn't help any riders in that area. I don't see any issues with the Bx28 south of Norwood other than having wait 30 mins at times esp on weekends which is why the Bx38 helps. It isn't the turns or traffic, it's the fact the buses were bunched going to in Norwood and there's no way to make up time after that outside of Paul Av. 

 

Leave the artics on the Bx22, take them off the Bx4/5. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

 

You had me until you threw Gun Hill Rd into the mix. That routing to Woodlawn as B35 said would be fine, just take it off 205 St west of Jerome. 

 

The problem is that even a streamlined Bx10 still "has to" serve Montefiore. Otherwise, I would have had it turn right on Bainbridge, into 204th, left Webster, then follow Bx41.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The problem is that even a streamlined Bx10 still "has to" serve Montefiore. Otherwise, I would have had it turn right on Bainbridge, into 204th, left Webster, then follow Bx41.

I don't understand why you feel that the Bx10 needs to be extended east anyway.  You don't seem to understand that there are different ridership bases.  I highly doubt that people from Co-Op City or areas of the Northeast Bronx are traveling to Riverdale with any real frequency.  If anything the connections that you're referring to are already satisfied with routes like the Bx28.  

[Q43 Floral Park]

The problem is that even a streamlined Bx10 still "has to" serve Montefiore. Otherwise, I would have had it turn right on Bainbridge, into 204th, left Webster, then follow Bx41.

 

 

Sending it the way you described and then to Woodlawn would serve Montefiore but I just realized this misses the train. So I'm going to have just go with via Sedgwick-Goulden-BPB-Bainbridge-Woodlawn

 

I don't understand why you feel that the Bx10 needs to be extended east anyway.  You don't seem to understand that there are different ridership bases.  I highly doubt that people from Co-Op City or areas of the Northeast Bronx are traveling to Riverdale with any real frequency.  If anything the connections that you're referring to are already satisfied with routes like the Bx28.  

 

There are people who travel from the NE Bronx to Riverdale daily for work but you're right the Bx16/28/30/34/38 have them covered. Anyone along the Bx41 can take something else to the Bx7/9/10/20 to get to Riverdale. Same goes for the Bx39 unless you're in Clasons Point (Can't see many people stomaching a local bus ride to Riverdale from there). City Island is really the only place in the N/E Bronx you can't get to from the NW Bronx with a 2-seat ride and that's why theres the extra x-fer

Edited May 23, 2016 by Q43 Floral Park

[B35 via Church]

Here's a thought...

 

From Riverdale using the current route to Jerome & 205th, then Jerome, right Van Cortlandt Avenue East, left Bainbridge, right Gun Hill, to White Plains Road. That would open up transfer opportunities to/from the   and   while keeping the existing route length (approximately) and still serving everything that the route serves now.

 

(This idea is inspired by a short-lived proposal in the early-to-late 1990's to restructure a few Bronx routes, including a combined   /   between Riverdale and Co-op City.)

Don't see much of anyone on the Bx10 west of Bedford Park (which is the vast majority of the entire route's usage) benefiting from a Bx10 extension westward to the , the Bx39, or the Bx41..... That would also add too much time to the route; the current Bx28/30/38 b/w Bainbridge & White Plains rd. is a drag / sluggish enough as it is.... I don't want to introduce that to the Bx10.

 

The only real reason to even have the Bx10 run east of Bedford Park is for access to Montefiore - otherwise, I would end the Bx10 w/ the bee-lines..

 

While I like the idea of having a bus utilize Van cortlandt av East, I still wouldn't have buses running on Jerome....

 

 

If you're going to send the Bx10 to Woodlawn on the , you might as well just go with the classic Bx10-Bx34 combo (and have the Bx28 take over the Bx34 route south of BPB, with the Bx26 taking BPB-Jerome to get down to Fordham). Unless you have other plans for the Bx34 on the northern end.

Nah, the Bx10 doesn't warrant an extension all the way up to residential Woodlawn.... I wish it were feasible to end it right @ Montefiore....

 

As for the other routes you mention...

- The Bx26 I wouldn't touch.... The confliction of connecting Co-op w/ "commercial" Fordham rd. I have is not one of having the Bx26 vs. the Bx28 do so - But if the Bx28 should even do it or not.... In other words, it's not whether one bus should do it over another, it's whether a bus should or shouldn't do it at all.... For now, I'd leave the Bx28 running to Fordham (even though I hate that turnaround @ 192nd)...

 

- The Bx28 (co-incidentally enough) I would also take off Jerome (b/w Bedford park blvd & Kingsbridge rd)...

I would have buses run along the Concourse instead:

* SB, buses would only stop at the current Bx1/2 stop @ BPB on the service rd, then dive onto the main rd (which enables buses to turn onto Kingsbridge rd)....

* NB, buses would stop at the current Kingsbridge rd/Concourse stop (on Kingsbridge rd), then take the service rd to the main rd)...

 

Basically, the point is to shave time off the current full route Bx28 by having it run on the Concourse & not stopping along it..... 

 

Instead of having the Bx28 run via Valentine/Bainbridge, I would let the Bx34 continue to exist (I do not have an interest in evaporating/incorporating the Bx34 into other routes)... Case in point - over the years, it's siphoned a lot of the Bx28 usage b/w Fordham & Norwood.... Once upon a time, the Bx34 used to carry air south of 205th - Needless to say, those days are gone... For what reason(s), I cannot say.....

 

- The Bx34 (as you can tell from the above point) I wouldn't touch either...

 

 

It looks like the Bx22 would lose it's overlap with the Bx39 on WPR and the Bx9 on Kingsbridge under this plan. I can't support that. Also despite Bx12 crowding the mere existence of the Bx22 and Bx9 (more so) along Fordham Road work to make things a little easier. Without those two routes you would have a lot more people taking the Bx12 and transferring at either the Concourse or Jerome for northward travel.

You don't have to support it, but what I will say is that I'm much less worried about (keeping) the Bx22 along WPR & Bronx Park East, than I am bothered by the Bx22's stint on as much of Fordham rd that it currently runs along.... Saying this another way, I think the Bx12 should be the only route along Fordham rd. running east of Southern....

 

There is barely any synergy b/w the Bx12 & the Bx22 as it is.... The masses are already taking the Bx12 to from the WPR/Bronx Park East vicinity, so I honestly don't see where a lot more people would come from (from off the 22 to the 12).... A better argument would be that such a plan would have a lot more riders taking Bx39's, not 12's.....

 

The Bx9 isn't being moved off Fordham rd & the Bx22 (Lehman buses) has a tendency to die at MNRR Fordham... You don't lose much of anything by not having the Bx22 run parallel to the Bx9 b/w the Fordham plz. area & Goulden..... The masses that take the Bx9 are traveling well west of Goulden....

 

The Bx22 b/w Parkchester & Fordham via West farms would loom far more useful than the Bx22 b/w Fordham & Bedford Park.... It's one way of justifying cutting the route back to Fordham/Valentine full time.... Cutting the current route back to Fordham/Valentine (with it already running artics) I believe would spur service cuts.....

Edited May 23, 2016 by B35 via Church

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Sending it the way you described and then to Woodlawn would serve Montefiore but I just realized this misses the train. So I'm going to have just go with via Sedgwick-Goulden-BPB-Bainbridge-Woodlawn

 

 

 

There are people who travel from the NE Bronx to Riverdale daily for work but you're right the Bx16/28/30/34/38 have them covered. Anyone along the Bx41 can take something else to the Bx7/9/10/20 to get to Riverdale. Same goes for the Bx39 unless you're in Clasons Point (Can't see many people stomaching a local bus ride to Riverdale from there). City Island is really the only place in the N/E Bronx you can't get to from the NW Bronx with a 2-seat ride and that's why theres the extra x-fer

I don't know if Norwood is considered Northeast Bronx or not, but if it is, that's really the only part of the Northeast Bronx that people use the Bx10 for work purposes. The Bx10 runs mainly through Riverdale and the Northwest Bronx (i.e. Kingsbridge, Kingsbridge Heights, etc.). Edited May 23, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

I don't know if Norwood is considered Northeast Bronx or not, but if it is, that's really the only part of the Northeast Bronx that people use the Bx10 for work purposes. The Bx10 runs mainly through Riverdale and the Northwest Bronx (i.e. Kingsbridge, Kingsbridge Heights, etc.).

Norwood is a part of the NW Bronx....

 

Eastern Bronx is basically any neighborhood east of the Bronx River pkwy.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Norwood is a part of the NW Bronx....

 

Eastern Bronx is basically any neighborhood east of the Bronx River pkwy.....

Interesting... I don't think of Norwood as being such, esp. since the streets are East 204th street, etc., etc. Edited May 23, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Eric B]

Interesting... I don't think of Norwood as being such, esp. since the streets are East 204th street, etc., etc.

 

 

That's from East/West being marked by Jerome, which basically continues the function of 5th Ave., and because that stems from Meanhaytan, it's solidly in the west, so E/W in the Bronx is fairly lopsided, witht he geographical center being the Bronx River Valley, which is way east of Jerome.

 

I guess Norwood then is technically north central, but still east of Jerome and west of the valley.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Eric B

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's from East/West being marked by Jerome, which basically continues the function of 5th Ave., and because that stems from Meanhaytan, it's solidly in the west, so E/W in the Bronx is fairly lopsided, witht he geographical center being the Bronx River Valley, which is way east of Jerome.

 

I guess Norwood then is technically north central, but still east of Jerome and west of the valley.

I thought of the dividing line between East of West as being Broadway, due to areas like Inwood. Goes to show how areas vary from one to another. Aside from that, the vibe I get in Norwood is along the lines of Northeast areas of the Bronx.

[checkmatechamp13]

I thought of the dividing line between East of West as being Broadway, due to areas like Inwood. Goes to show how areas vary from one to another. Aside from that, the vibe I get in Norwood is along the lines of Northeast areas of the Bronx.

 

That would literally mean the only neighborhoods in the NW Bronx are Kingsbridge & Riverdale. 

[Q43 Floral Park]

Interesting... I don't Norwood as being such, esp. since the streets are East 204th street, etc., etc.

 

Well the West/East divider is Jerome which runs solely in the West Bronx... half of KB Heights is in the same CB as Norwood its the NW Bronx.

 

 

 

You don't have to support it, but what I will say is that I'm much less worried about (keeping) the Bx22 along WPR & Bronx Park East, than I am bothered by the Bx22's stint on as much of Fordham rd that it currently runs along.... Saying this another way, I think the Bx12 should be the only route along Fordham rd. running east of Southern....

 

There is barely any synergy b/w the Bx12 & the Bx22 as it is.... The masses are already taking the Bx12 to from the WPR/Bronx Park East vicinity, so I honestly don't see where a lot more people would come from (from off the 22 to the 12).... A better argument would be that such a plan would have a lot more riders taking Bx39's, not 12's.....

 

The Bx9 isn't being moved off Fordham rd & the Bx22 (Lehman buses) has a tendency to die at MNRR Fordham... You don't lose much of anything by not having the Bx22 run parallel to the Bx9 b/w the Fordham plz. area & Goulden..... The masses that take the Bx9 are traveling well west of Goulden....

 

The Bx22 b/w Parkchester & Fordham via West farms would loom far more useful than the Bx22 b/w Fordham & Bedford Park.... It's one way of justifying cutting the route back to Fordham/Valentine full time.... Cutting the current route back to Fordham/Valentine (with it already running artics) I believe would spur service cuts.....

 

The lack of synergy is why I'm not sure removing it from Fordham is the best move as trying to x-fer to/from the Bx12 & 22 (pretty much any of the Fordham routes) is challenging. The Bx22 has saved me quite a few times coming from Morris Park at night if I wasn't going to make it to Pelham in time for the 12.  the fact that it somewhat overlaps with the Bx9 weekdays helps when it bunches or has a massive service gaps but the stint up Goulden really is dead outside school hours (not sure where else it can go). Ridership between Parkchester and Fordham seems pretty good as is (I was actually surprised at it needing to make every stop from Southern to Met Oval) and I imagine going via WF would take longer.

[Eric B]

I thought of the dividing line between East of West as being Broadway, due to areas like Inwood. Goes to show how areas vary from one to another. Aside from that, the vibe I get in Norwood is along the lines of Northeast areas of the Bronx.

Broadway is the E/W divider below 8th st. where 5th Ave. begins and takes over. To make it the divider all the way up doesn't denote E/W Bronx, but rather that one corner from the rest of the borough.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Broadway is the E/W divider below 8th st. where 5th Ave. begins and takes over. To make it the divider all the way up doesn't denote E/W Bronx, but rather that one corner from the rest of the borough.

There's always the distinction made between East of Broadway and west of Broadway in Inwood and areas north of that, so that's probably why I think that way. lol That along with the street names.  

[pranavbhat924]

I think that the BX6 SBS is the right move to make purely because the sheer number of people that use the route. With that said, I don't think that it is a commuter route...its more like a popular route for those going to the Hunts Points Market. They shouldn't use artics, maybe just XD40s or Nova LFSs

[Train92]

Here's something:

 

Bx40 Limited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

BX40 LTD LOL!!!

Was wondering why it was never considered for LTD or SBS status

I mean it has artics, a Lcl counterpart as the Bx42, travels on a street that could use some faster service

but Alas i know nothing about its ridership maybe that's why or maybe its being overlooked who knows...

[Train92]

BX40 LTD LOL!!!

Was wondering why it was never considered for LTD or SBS status

I mean it has artics, a Lcl counterpart as the Bx42, travels on a street that could use some faster service

but Alas i know nothing about its ridership maybe that's why or maybe its being overlooked who knows...

i think it was 27k in weekly ridership last year but the 36 had at least 31k. pretty close but i'm sure the 36 wins LTD service because it goes into Manhattan.

[bobtehpanda]

BX40 LTD LOL!!!

Was wondering why it was never considered for LTD or SBS status

I mean it has artics, a Lcl counterpart as the Bx42, travels on a street that could use some faster service

but Alas i know nothing about its ridership maybe that's why or maybe its being overlooked who knows...cy

 

Frequency is not nearly high enough to justify it.

[pranavbhat924]

The BX40 and BX42 are basically the same bus route, except at Locust Point, Bronx. They should be combined!

[DaTransitMan4608]

The BX40 and BX42 are basically the same bus route, except at Locust Point, Bronx. They should be combined!

That would cause a lot of confusion. It's already confusing since both lines go to Throggs Neck.

[pranavbhat924]

That would cause a lot of confusion. It's already confusing since both lines go to Throggs Neck.[/quote

What I mean is that they should not have different numbers

[MysteriousBtrain]

What I mean is that they should not have different numbers

Once upon a time, all buses on Tremont were the Bx40. The Bx40 ran to 4 different eastern terminals:

SUNY Maritime/Ft Schyler (today's Bx40 terminal)

Throgs Neck/Harding Avenue (today's Bx42 terminal)

Locust Point (today's Bx8 south of edgewater park, including the loop)

Randall-Balcom Houses (today's Bx42 between Randal and Dewey Avenues, ran weekdays only).

These branches were turned into the Bx42 and Bx8 extension by 1990, all because of confusion led by these riders.

Edited May 24, 2016 by MysteriousBtrain