Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[qjtransitmaster]

....and you're not going to either.

 

The stigma against trains is nowhere near as potent as that of a bus.... You don't hear the shaming of the occupation of being a t/o, but you damn sure hear it about "driving a stinking bus for a living".... The thinking is, trains are supposed to move masses amt's of people, no matter the class of people.... Whereas the bus is left to set to move low(er) class people.... There was one dude that even said that the term "commuter bus" is oxymoronic...

 

That tells me more than enough.... there is clearly a hatred for buses in general.

Don't buses move people to trains? And in Boston's case to the city as they are faster than trains there and more frequent overall. Buses are multipurpose in nature and move anything good or bad.

LOL... They obviously live in Manhattan... Some live in Riverdale. 

Data from?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Data from?

I know because I've used the BxM10 near Montefiore and there are a lot of staff members that use it.  I also deal with a few folks that live in Riverdale and work at Montefiore.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[qjtransitmaster]

I know because I've used the BxM10 near Montefiore and there are a lot of staff members that use it.  I also deal with a few folks that live in Riverdale and work at Montefiore.

Do they reveal that they are only in Bronx some students go between hospitals. You have to go in that hospital and find out.

Edited September 30, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[GreatOne2k]

BxM8 should be extended to City Island summer weekends to promote tourism. In the same way the BxM4 extension to Empire City can help tourism (though it may not reduce W20 ridership much since many of those people may want a cheaper option). BxM4 may attract a different crowd (and some of the former off peak 4C riders).

Edited September 30, 2013 by GreatOne2k

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Do they reveal that they are only in Bronx some students go between hospitals. You have to go in that hospital and find out.

I said some live in Manhattan and Riverdale.  Of course some of them live in the Bronx and some in Westchester.  They're pretty spread out.

 

BxM8 should be extended to City Island summer weekends to promote tourism. In the same way the BxM4 extension to Empire City can help tourism (though it may not reduce W20 ridership much since many of those people may want a cheaper option). BxM4 may attract a different crowd (and some of the former off peak 4C riders).

I'd argue that more trips should start and end in City Island period to give those residents more transportation options.  Two trips each way is a joke.

[qjtransitmaster]

BxM8 should be extended to City Island summer weekends to promote tourism. In the same way the BxM4 extension to Empire City can help tourism (though it may not reduce W20 ridership much since many of those people may want a cheaper option). BxM4 may attract a different crowd (and some of the former off peak 4C riders).

That is what metro-north to W7 is for. And W20 to it's done.

[bobtehpanda]

I see you only strengthened my argument for an eastern queens/ Bronx LTD if that is true about long beach. Long beach trains stop in SE queens on weekends. Schedule changes to some LIRR lines can help like Brooklyn bound Hempstead trains arriving in Jamaica minutes before Montauk and Babylon departures can help. Hint nyct doesn't have to be for every need.

 

Okay, you are clearly off your rocker if you think that Eastern Queens --> Long Beach has anything to do with the Bronx, because it doesn't.

 

In any case, those heading out east to the beaches are overwhelmingly going to use their cars, since it's cheaper per-person (who goes to the beach alone?), and it's easier to carry things in bulk.

Don't buses move people to trains? And in Boston's case to the city as they are faster than trains there and more frequent overall. Buses are multipurpose in nature and move anything good or bad.

 

This is why buses are viewed by much of the public as inferior to trains. They're a secondary mode of transport, and they're slow and get stuck in traffic all the time. They're crowded, unpleasant, and cough out diesel fumes. Not to mention, the ride quality is inherently worse - most people can read on a train, but most people can't read on a bus without getting motion sickness.

 

I also don't know what the hell you're talking about when it comes to Boston, because you certainly weren't riding a bus through the central parts of the city. The 1 and 66 are not fast at all, and forget about any bus heading into Downtown Crossing or South Station...

[Q43LTD]

I said some live in Manhattan and Riverdale.  Of course some of them live in the Bronx and some in Westchester.  They're pretty spread out.

 

I'd argue that more trips should start and end in City Island period to give those residents more transportation options.  Two trips each way is a joke.

So the Bx29 to the isn't enough for them off peak?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So the Bx29 to the isn't enough for them off peak?

I would argue that it isn't. Their commutes are just as long if not longer than those in Co-Op City and Pelham Bay.  The Bx29 is only bus in City Island and two express bus trips during the morning and evening rush is a joke.  If the express bus takes an additional 15 minutes to get to City Island, imagine how long it takes on the Bx29.  At least 5 - 10 minutes more then the subway ride.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Q43LTD]

I would argue that it isn't. Their commutes are just as long if not longer than those in Co-Op City and Pelham Bay.  The Bx29 is only bus in City Island and two express bus trips during the morning and evening rush is a joke.

I suppose. I meant to put Bx29 to the BxM8 off peak. You gotta realize that City Island Av is very narrow. I don't even think it's needed just beef up 29 service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I suppose. I meant to put Bx29 to the BxM8 off peak. You gotta realize that City Island Av is very narrow. I don't even think it's needed just beef up 29 service.

I do but I don't see the point in having just two trips go there.  Who is that supposed to serve?  Either have some go there or none at all.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I do but I don't see the point in having just two trips go there. Who is that supposed to serve? Either have some go there or none at all.

In the non BxM8 Extention defense, this was done to eliminate the BxM7B, which had 2 trips like the current BxM8.

 

In the BxM8 Extention defense, there should be 2 more trips in each direction. Forget about more service than that because City Island Avenue is terrible to turn the bus, because its bad as it is only with the Bx29.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

In the BxM8 Extention defense, there should be 2 more trips in each direction. Forget about more service than that because City Island Avenue is terrible to turn the bus, because its bad as it is only with the Bx29.

I just did a tour of that "neighborhood" using Google maps and it looks like a big ghetto.  I don't even know who actually uses the service down there.  Every thing is run down.  I expected it to be much more charming.  The streets look like a third world country and somehow the median income is $68k a year? 

[bobtehpanda]

I just did a tour of that "neighborhood" using Google maps and it looks like a big ghetto.  I don't even know who actually uses the service down there.  Every thing is run down.  I expected it to be much more charming.  The streets look like a third world country and somehow the median income is $68k a year? 

 

It apparently has a very rustic vibe to it. It's like being in another place entirely - think Breezy Point.

[B35 via Church]

BxM4, BxM6 and BxM10 (BxM6/10 combination, BxM10 extension, BxM4 extension)

 

BxM10 extension proposal: Convert part of its deadhead distance into revenue service, down Boston Road. Stops added would be as follows: East 222 Street, Baychester Avenue, Bivonia Street (Boston Secor Houses), and Conner Street. This accounts for about 80 percent of the BxM10's deadhead distance; the remaining deadhead would be down Conner Street.

 

BxM6: This route is the the third-worst performing express bus route on weekends in the Bronx, averaging about 630 weekend riders, while the BxM10 is the second-best performing route, averaging about 1,400 weekend riders. SOURCE: http://www.mta.info/nyct/facts/ridership/ridership_busMTA_weekend.htm

 

As such, I would propose a reroute of the BxM10 on alternating trips on weekdays to serve Parkchester, along with a slight reduction in the service span to Parkchester (not unlike how it was under the NYBS days, when the BxM6 had limited Saturday service). Routing: From a start at Conner Street/Provost Avenue and Boston Road: regular BxM10 route to White Plains Road, then: left at White Plains Road, slight left onto Unionport Road, around Met Oval, right onto Metropolitan Avenue going past Macy's, right at Hugh J. Grant Circle, left on East 177 Street, and express to Manhattan. (Return to Bronx via same route.) Schedule-wise, the BxM10 would have such trips depart 20 minutes after the hour, while trips operating via East 180 Street (the one stop that would be missed by such trips via Parkchester) would depart on the hour.

 

BxM4: I don't know how well-received this would be by the City of Yonkers or the WCDOT, but to improve ridership, might an extension to Empire City be worth it? Such an extension would operate as follows: continue past Katonah Avenue onto Kimball Avenue, left onto McLean Avenue, right onto Central Park Avenue, up to Yonkers Avenue, and terminate. Return via same route.

 

Additional stops at: Kimball and McLean, McLean and Aqueduct, McLean and McCollum, Central Park and Hall, Central Park and Clark, and Yonkers Avenue.

 

As it is, Yonkers Avenue is a deadhead route for the BxM4 and BxM11. This would also potentially save WCDOT on having to run additional Route 20 buses between just Cross County and the Bronx.

I & a couple other folks on here brought up a BxM4 extension of sorts in the past (don't feel like searching for the posts right now)... But yeah, I (still) think it would be a good idea.... Not just for the casino, but for park & ride purposes as well....

 

BxM6/10 combo & extension... The combination part of it, we done been over far too many times; I have to disagree with doing that....

As for the extension, I wouldn't bother extending it past boston/eastchester either... That part of boston rd (east of eastchester) is overran w/ auto body shops... I don't see the secor folks utilizing the expresses either (too fixated on taking the 52's & BL60/61's (bee line); hell, I barely see em take Bx30's)..... Not saying that the BxM10 should do this, but If it's anywhere express bus service could be better utilized in the north bronx (where there is none), is up there around baychester where the Bx16 runs along... But of course, the MTA would argue the ....

 

LOL@lower class of people...

lol..... 'aye, it is how it is (viewed).....

 

Don't buses move people to trains? And in Boston's case to the city as they are faster than trains there and more frequent overall.

Buses are multipurpose in nature and move anything good or bad.

Lol @ this guy explaining to me how buses function in a city's public transportation system....

 

You obviously missed the boat (missed the point)..... Just read Bobtehpanda's reply below as to what the point of that post of mine was....

 

This is why buses are viewed by much of the public as inferior to trains. They're a secondary mode of transport, and they're slow and get stuck in traffic all the time. They're crowded, unpleasant, and cough out diesel fumes. Not to mention, the ride quality is inherently worse - most people can read on a train, but most people can't read on a bus without getting motion sickness.

Thank you.

 

So the Bx29 to the isn't enough for them off peak?

They can still take the Bx29 to the BxM8 if need be.... The BxM8 runs off peak.....

 

I'd argue that more trips should start and end in City Island period to give those residents more transportation options.  Two trips each way is a joke.

I would argue that it isn't. Their commutes are just as long if not longer than those in Co-Op City and Pelham Bay.  The Bx29 is only bus in City Island and two express bus trips during the morning and evening rush is a joke.  If the express bus takes an additional 15 minutes to get to City Island, imagine how long it takes on the Bx29.  At least 5 - 10 minutes more then the subway ride.

I do but I don't see the point in having just two trips go there.  Who is that supposed to serve?  Either have some go there or none at all.

I just did a tour of that "neighborhood" using Google maps and it looks like a big ghetto.  I don't even know who actually uses the service down there.  Every thing is run down.  I expected it to be much more charming.  The streets look like a third world country and somehow the median income is $68k a year? 

Looks like you don't know too much about city island... lol... At least google (maps) is your friend....

There is nothing about city island that is charming (IMO anyway).....

 

City Island is where 2 general groups of ppl. go run out to reside - Retired city workers (namely NYPD & FDNY) & those priced out of morris park & schuylerville (which are both notches below spencer estates/country club).... Not that I care about the actual #, but that would explain that median income figure.....

 

That said, I would argue that they can those 2 remaining trips on the BxM8... I wouldn't say that they should be forced to taking the subway (Bx29 to the ), but I would have whatever handful of ppl. taking BxM8's out to city island, take the BxM8 to the last stop (pelham bay park) for the Bx29 there, to get out to city island....

It apparently has a very rustic vibe to it. It's like being in another place entirely - think Breezy Point.

Well within that realm of a comparison, yeah... but otherwise, city island is nothing like breezy point....

 

For starters, City Island is FAR more welcoming (to outsiders).... and you don't have to be "recommended" by patrons of the neighborhood to move out to city island (like you do breezy point)....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't see anything "rustic" about that place. Looks like somebody dropped a bomb on it. I don't even think I would go down there to eat.

[aemoreira81]

New express route---BxM12.

 

Orchard Beach is currently being used as a relief lot for Metro-North riders. Given that the park-and-ride lot is easily accessible from the Hutchinson River Parkway's Exit 5, I wonder if an X22A-type route could work. I would operate service to Orchard Beach (via the parking lot) as follows. This would require a negotiation with the Parks Department for a special commuter reduced rate for entries before 8 AM. (The beach opens at 10 AM during the summer.)

 

Trips 3 and 4 (departing City Island at 6:45 and 7:15 AM, as the BxM8 to City Island does now): Start at the foot of City Island Avenue and proceed north on City Island Avenue and over the City Island Bridge. Then, make a right turn at Park Drive. Follow Park Drive past the entrance to the Orchard Beach bus terminal used by the Bx5 and Bx12 during the summer months, to the driveway just south of the parking lot. This would be the pickup point; the trips would depart at 7 AM and 7:30 AM, respectively. These trips would then run non-stop to Manhattan.

 

Trips 1, 2, and 5 (departing Orchard Beach at 6:00, 6:30, and 8:00 AM) would make only the Orchard Beach pickup, and then operate to Manhattan non-stop via the Bruckner Expressway.

 

The 6:30 and 7 AM trips (the second and third departures from Orchard Beach - the 7 AM trip originating from City Island 15 minutes prior) additionally would introduce something currently unheard of in the eastern Bronx: direct express bus service to lower Manhattan. These trips would continue on past East 23 Street to the FDR Drive, and then operate in Lower Manhattan via a downtown loop, via Water Street, Trinity Place, and Murray Street, terminating at the World Financial Center at Vesey and North End.

 

Returning to the Bronx, trips would leave Madison Square Park at 3:55 PM, 4:25 PM, 4:55 PM, 5:25 PM, 5:55 PM, and 6:25 PM. The 5:25 PM and 5:55 PM departures from Madison Square Park would originate from the World Financial Center at 4:40 PM and 5:10 PM, respectively. The 5:10 PM departure would continue on to City Island, as would the 4:55 PM departure to City Island and 5:18 PM BxM8 trip.

 

Customers missing the last BxM12 from Madison Square Park would be accommodated by the 7:00 PM BxM8 trip from Madison Square Park, extended to Orchard Beach.

 

The reason for having 3 trips to City Island going back is because of a need to have a BxM12 trip from downtown Manhattan go there to correspond with the lower Manhattan-City Island trip.

 

Your thoughts?

Edited October 1, 2013 by aemoreira81

[Via Garibaldi 8]

New express route---BxM12.

 

Orchard Beach is currently being used as a relief lot for Metro-North riders. Given that the park-and-ride lot is easily accessible from the Hutchinson River Parkway's Exit 5, I wonder if an X22A-type route could work. I would operate service to Orchard Beach (via the parking lot) as follows. This would require a negotiation with the Parks Department for a special commuter reduced rate for entries before 8 AM. (The beach opens at 10 AM during the summer.)

 

Trips 3 and 4 (departing City Island at 6:45 and 7:15 AM, as the BxM8 to City Island does now): Start at the foot of City Island Avenue and proceed north on City Island Avenue and over the City Island Bridge. Then, make a right turn at Park Drive. Follow Park Drive past the entrance to the Orchard Beach bus terminal used by the Bx5 and Bx12 during the summer months, to the driveway just south of the parking lot. This would be the pickup point; the trips would depart at 7 AM and 7:30 AM, respectively. These trips would then run non-stop to Manhattan.

 

Trips 1, 2, and 5 (departing Orchard Beach at 6:00, 6:30, and 8:00 AM) would make only the Orchard Beach pickup, and then operate to Manhattan non-stop via the Bruckner Expressway.

 

The 6:30 and 7 AM trips (the second and third departures from Orchard Beach - the 7 AM trip originating from City Island 15 minutes prior) additionally would introduce something currently unheard of in the eastern Bronx: direct express bus service to lower Manhattan. These trips would continue on past East 23 Street to the FDR Drive, and then operate in Lower Manhattan via a downtown loop, via Water Street, Trinity Place, and Murray Street, terminating at the World Financial Center at Vesey and North End.

 

Returning to the Bronx, trips would leave Madison Square Park at 3:55 PM, 4:25 PM, 4:55 PM, 5:25 PM, 5:55 PM, and 6:25 PM. The 5:25 PM and 5:55 PM departures from Madison Square Park would originate from the World Financial Center at 4:40 PM and 5:10 PM, respectively. The 5:10 PM departure would continue on to City Island, as would the 4:55 PM departure to City Island and 5:18 PM BxM8 trip.

 

Customers missing the last BxM12 from Madison Square Park would be accommodated by the 7:00 PM BxM8 trip from Madison Square Park, extended to Orchard Beach.

 

The reason for having 3 trips to City Island going back is because of a need to have a BxM12 trip from downtown Manhattan go there to correspond with the lower Manhattan-City Island trip.

 

Your thoughts?

What's up with this obsession with having Bronx buses serve Downtown?  I'm sorry to tell you this but I use the BxM18 and sometimes take it Downtown in the mornings and sometimes at night and the majority of the riders are going to and from Riverdale.  On occasion you'll have a few people transfer to one of the Bronx express buses but that isn't often.  I think it's important to understand where people in the Bronx work at BEFORE extending bus routes Downtown and wasting money doing so.  Now as someone who lives in Riverdale, one reason I moved there is because I know that I spend most of my time in Midtown and the upper parts of Manhattan (Upper West and Upper East Side).  Getting Downtown from Riverdale isn't terrible but I don't go down there that often because it is a bit of schlepp and that seems to be the attitudes of folks in the Bronx as well.  You have a lot them that work in Upper Manhattan or Midtown down to 23rd street.  If the BxM18 was heavily used by Bronxites then I could understand saying have some other routes go down there but having a bus extended down there without justifying why makes no sense to me.  Riverdale has the demand based on the folks that work down there and you also have some NYSE workers that live in Riverdale, but explain how you justify having Bronx routes extended Downtown?  They headways would easily be 1 1/2 hours each way (not including traffic) to most parts of the Bronx.

[aemoreira81]

What's up with this obsession with having Bronx buses serve Downtown?  I'm sorry to tell you this but I use the BxM18 and sometimes take it Downtown in the mornings and sometimes at night and the majority of the riders are going to and from Riverdale.  On occasion you'll have a few people transfer to one of the Bronx express buses but that isn't often.  I think it's important to understand where people in the Bronx work at BEFORE extending bus routes Downtown and wasting money doing so.  Now as someone who lives in Riverdale, one reason I moved there is because I know that I spend most of my time in Midtown and the upper parts of Manhattan (Upper West and Upper East Side).  Getting Downtown from Riverdale isn't terrible but I don't go down there that often because it is a bit of schlepp and that seems to be the attitudes of folks in the Bronx as well.  You have a lot them that work in Upper Manhattan or Midtown down to 23rd street.  If the BxM18 was heavily used by Bronxites then I could understand saying have some other routes go down there but having a bus extended down there without justifying why makes no sense to me.  Riverdale has the demand based on the folks that work down there and you also have some NYSE workers that live in Riverdale, but explain how you justify having Bronx routes extended Downtown?  They headways would easily be 1 1/2 hours each way (not including traffic) to most parts of the Bronx.

 

As a park-and-ride route, the line would not necessarily be targeted towards Bronx residents; it would instead be targeted toward residents of southern Westchester (i.e., Pelham, New Rochelle, Eastchester, and Mount Vernon). The X22A (and before that, the AE7) is based on the same idea.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As a park-and-ride route, the line would not necessarily be targeted towards Bronx residents; it would instead be targeted toward residents of southern Westchester (i.e., Pelham, New Rochelle, Eastchester, and Mount Vernon). The X22A (and before that, the AE7) is based on the same idea.

Not a fan of that.  Those residents have Metro North. I thought this was for Bronx residents.... If they need express bus service like that then let Westchester County pay for it.  I find it astounding that we have so much money to support transportation for Westchester residents but not enough money for express bus service for NYC residents.

[qjtransitmaster]

What's up with this obsession with having Bronx buses serve Downtown?  I'm sorry to tell you this but I use the BxM18 and sometimes take it Downtown in the mornings and sometimes at night and the majority of the riders are going to and from Riverdale.  On occasion you'll have a few people transfer to one of the Bronx express buses but that isn't often.  I think it's important to understand where people in the Bronx work at BEFORE extending bus routes Downtown and wasting money doing so.  Now as someone who lives in Riverdale, one reason I moved there is because I know that I spend most of my time in Midtown and the upper parts of Manhattan (Upper West and Upper East Side).  Getting Downtown from Riverdale isn't terrible but I don't go down there that often because it is a bit of schlepp and that seems to be the attitudes of folks in the Bronx as well.  You have a lot them that work in Upper Manhattan or Midtown down to 23rd street.  If the BxM18 was heavily used by Bronxites then I could understand saying have some other routes go down there but having a bus extended down there without justifying why makes no sense to me.  Riverdale has the demand based on the folks that work down there and you also have some NYSE workers that live in Riverdale, but explain how you justify having Bronx routes extended Downtown?  They headways would easily be 1 1/2 hours each way (not including traffic) to most parts of the Bronx.

 

that's cause they use the subway to get downtown.

Not a fan of that.  Those residents have Metro North. I thought this was for Bronx residents.... If they need express bus service like that then let Westchester County pay for it.  I find it astounding that we have so much money to support transportation for Westchester residents but not enough money for express bus service for NYC residents.

Sorry by meant to upvote.

As a park-and-ride route, the line would not necessarily be targeted towards Bronx residents; it would instead be targeted toward residents of southern Westchester (i.e., Pelham, New Rochelle, Eastchester, and Mount Vernon). The X22A (and before that, the AE7) is based on the same idea.

They won't use it don't bother that's what MNRR /subway is for. Remember the bxm4 not exactly in high demand what makes you think this won't end up as empty?

Edited October 1, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[Via Garibaldi 8]

that's cause they use the subway to get downtown.

 

I never use the subway to get Downtown from Riverdale.  I always use the BxM18.  Much quicker and direct.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[qjtransitmaster]

I never use the subway to get Downtown from Riverdale.  I always use the BxM18.  Much quicker and direct.

That is Riverdale not the rest of the bronx or Westchester.

[Q43LTD]

So this BxM12 is being created to serve Southern Westchester residents and operated by the ? I'm not sure about this.

[qjtransitmaster]

So this BxM12 is being created to serve Southern Westchester residents and operated by the ? I'm not sure about this.

Any MTA bus express route made for Westchester has fail written all over it. Especially since this line he made is harder to get to than say the new haven line no way MTA would create a service to compete with their own railroads outside NYC.

I never use the subway to get Downtown from Riverdale.  I always use the BxM18.  Much quicker and direct.

It's a one seat ride why not take it no surprise.