Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, I do like the idea of a route covering the Ely/222nd Street corridor, but I don't think it should go up WPR to Mount Vernon. If any Mount Vernon route should be extended deeper into The Bronx, it should be the #52 or #55.

 

There's something to be said for covering it with the Bx8 (which already runs down 222nd for a few blocks heading eastbound, as you know). Have it take Bronxwood-Gun Hill-WPR, and then take 222nd down.

 

While we're talking about the NE Bronx, I do think something should be done about the way the Bx16 meanders around. Maybe have the Bx34 cover the Nereid Avenue portion (and either end at Mundy Lane, or the #54 terminal at South Fulton), and just have the Bx16 run straight across 233rd (with a new route running from Wakefield to Bay Plaza via Baychester Avenue). 

 

 

Hmmm....he has a specific routing in The Bronx, to serve corridors which currently have no bus service, and the Mount Vernon routing is yet to be determined.....I wonder which county this route is intended to primarily serve.....

I don't care what he has.  I don't support City services going across City lines for people in Westchester. If Westchester needs bus service, let them pay for it.  And what exactly is there to be said about the Bx8 up there? It's not as if the line sees such great usage in that portion.  It's all residential (mainly low density at that as in houses), and mainly people that drive, so why would another local bus be needed? That's probably why he's talking about White Plains Road because the line would need to steal riders from some main corridor to have any chance.

 

Let me start off by saying that I don't see the need for anything else to terminate in Bay Plaza/ Co-op City at this point.... There isn't a portion of the N/E Bronx that can't access it either with a direct route or 1 transfer besides Morris Park Av.

 

I mentioned this a while back in the thread but E 222 St and Burke are the only N/E Bronx main streets with no service and you can run a route that serves both and encourages ridership at Baychester without entering Co-op or Mount Vernon (especially not via WPR crawling behind Bx39s/BxM11s). I actually agree with VG8 here, let Bee Line extend one of their routes.

 

So... you want to

a) completely cut Nereid off from the Shopping Plaza on Pelham Line and the connection Dyre for when WPR fouls up

b) duplicate Bx31 service along E 233 Street

c) cut service levels on Nereid (Bx16 is more frequent than the Bx34)

d) cut service off Webster Av (because your rerouted 34 can't serve Katonah, Webster and Nereid)

e) add a Baychester Av route (thats really just siphoning Bx30 riders from Sec4/Bay Plaza)

just because the Bx16 "meanders" around Mundy?

 

Sorry, the decision to combine the 16 branches was the best thing to happen up there. It actually helps prevent bus bunching.

 

 

Yes because it did that when it was a Liberty Lines route and I cant think of a single good reason for cutting it back to 261/Bway.

Co-Op City is saturated with bus service.  Let them fix those routes before adding anything else.  

 

I also wouldn't cut back the BxM3.  Even though I don't care for it running to Yonkers, that line is in serious danger.  I'd put it right up there with the BxM4, but the BxM4 has more political clout. Those folks in Woodlawn would raise hell.  The BxM3 meanwhile just doesn't see much usage where it should (i.e. Riverdale). Most of the usage comes from Kingsbridge and Van Cortlandt Village, but certainly not enough to sustain it long term unless those areas see a re-birth in terms of people with money moving in that want the express bus. Those areas are becoming more expensive to live in but they are not upper class areas. Working class areas at best (Van Cortlandt Village is a bit more middle class), but still susceptible to the economy more so.    

 

The BxM3 serve Yonkers?? Yes or No?

 

So what's the matter with Mount Vernon service to the Bronx. If the is supposed to be regional why can't the tap into the Westchester/Rockland/Orange/Dutchess/Albany bus networks?

I don't see what the BxM3 has to do with this conversation.  Yes, it serves Yonkers, but I believe Yonkers pays the a subsidy for such service.  It's pretty simple.  We're talking about CITY services versus services for Westchester.  City residents should not be subsidizing services to the benefit of those in Westchester.  It's bad enough that all of these people want to live in Westchester but they don't want to pay for MNRR (cheap bastards) so they come to the City border to mooch off of our services.  Westchester should be running more bus service and paying for it, but Astorino doesn't want that and we know why... 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

Let me start off by saying that I don't see the need for anything else to terminate in Bay Plaza/ Co-op City at this point.... There isn't a portion of the N/E Bronx that can't access it either with a direct route or 1 transfer besides Morris Park Av.

 

I mentioned this a while back in the thread but E 222 St and Burke are the only N/E Bronx main streets with no service and you can run a route that serves both and encourages ridership at Baychester without entering Co-op or Mount Vernon (especially not via WPR crawling behind Bx39s/BxM11s). I actually agree with VG8 here, let Bee Line extend one of their routes.

 

So... you want to

a) completely cut Nereid off from the Shopping Plaza on Pelham Line and the connection Dyre for when WPR fouls up

b) duplicate Bx31 service along E 233 Street

c) cut service levels on Nereid (Bx16 is more frequent than the Bx34)

d) cut service off Webster Av (because your rerouted 34 can't serve Katonah, Webster and Nereid)

e) add a Baychester Av route (thats really just siphoning Bx30 riders from Sec4/Bay Plaza)

just because the Bx16 "meanders" around Mundy?

 

Sorry, the decision to combine the 16 branches was the best thing to happen up there. It actually helps prevent bus bunching.

 

So you're thinking something like 222nd-Boston Road-Baychester-Hammersley-Eastchester-Burke?

 

And fair enough about the Bx16.

[Q43 Floral Park]

So you're thinking something like 222nd-Boston Road-Baychester-Hammersley-Eastchester-Burke?

 

And fair enough about the Bx16.

 

Pretty much but I think it would have to use Hammersley-Grace-Givan-Baychester (N/B? E/B? idk) because Baychester's one way for 2 blocks IIRC. You loop it via Bronx Blvd/BPE on both ends to avoid having buses have their first stop on WPR blocking up traffic like the Bx8 does.

 

 

I don't care what he has.  I don't support City services going across City lines for people in Westchester. If Westchester needs bus service, let them pay for it.  And what exactly is there to be said about the Bx8 up there? It's not as if the line sees such great usage in that portion.  It's all residential (mainly low density at that as in houses), and mainly people that drive, so why would another local bus be needed? That's probably why he's talking about White Plains Road because the line would need to steal riders from some main corridor to have any chance.

 

I also wouldn't cut back the BxM3.  Even though I don't care for it running to Yonkers, that line is in serious danger.  I'd put it right up there with the BxM4, but the BxM4 has more political clout. Those folks in Woodlawn would raise hell.  The BxM3 meanwhile just doesn't see much usage where it should (i.e. Riverdale). Most of the usage comes from Kingsbridge and Van Cortlandt Village, but certainly not enough to sustain it long term unless those areas see a re-birth in terms of people with money moving in that want the express bus. Those areas are becoming more expensive to live in but they are not upper class areas. Working class areas at best (Van Cortlandt Village is a bit more middle class), but still susceptible to the economy more so.   

 

The only thing the Bx8 is good at up there, is getting me to my favorite West Indian restaurant at the terminal. Other than that it's route and service levels don't encourage people to wait to take it to the train. From my experiences the bulk of ridership is mid route which really screws with adding more service. It not serving 222 St in both directions just highlights that street as an untapped W/E corridor.

 

You must have missed the article where they said Kingsbridge is the new "IT" neighborhood in the city . I slightly disagree, it running to Getty Sq cuts down on it's deadhead time and I've spoken with people who use it up there and then x-fer to go further north. The Sedgwick ridership has always been the primary market (because it's more isolated than Broadway) and cutting it back to 261 would force them to redo the entire AM service pattern. I wouldn't say it's in serious danger but I agree it's being ignored and I'm working on that. Tell your neighbors to try the AM SX runs, they make good time and aren't crowded.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Q43 Floral Park

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1. The only thing the Bx8 is good at up there, is getting me to my favorite West Indian restaurant at the terminal. Other than that it's route and service levels don't encourage people to wait to take it to the train. From my experiences the bulk of ridership is mid route which really screws with adding more service. It not serving 222 St in both directions just highlights that street as an untapped W/E corridor.

 

2. You must have missed the article where they said Kingsbridge is the new "IT" neighborhood in the city . I slightly disagree, it running to Getty Sq cuts down on it's deadhead time and I've spoken with people who use it up there and then x-fer to go further north. The Sedgwick ridership has always been the primary market (because it's more isolated than Broadway) and cutting it back to 261 would force them to redo the entire AM service pattern. I wouldn't say it's in serious danger but I agree it's being ignored and I'm working on that. Tell your neighbors to try the AM SX runs, they make good time and aren't crowded.

1. It makes sense because as I said, the area is more car centric and spread out.  Those who can try are too busy trying to keep appearances to use any local bus over there, even though most of the area is working class at best.

 

2.  Kingsbridge is being called the "IT" neighborhood because it's "cheap" relative to Riverdale (I think you can get a 1 bedroom for $1,300 - 1,400) versus studios in Riverdale that now go for $1,400 - 1,900 in the new doorman buildings where I'm at, and best of all, you can walk to the subway.  That's what these newspapers that hype up Kingsbridge always focus on anyway... Subway access. It's also very close to Manhattan.  The BxM3 really serves more of Kingsbridge Heights and Van Cortlandt Village as opposed to Kingsbridge proper.

 

As for your other comment... My neighbors? I'm west of Riverdale Avenue (within walking distance to Wave Hill to give you an idea).  lol Only a few of my neighbors use the express bus and we're nowhere near Broadway anyway.  I saw one lady who lives in my building on the BxM1 that I was on, but everybody else drives or gets picked up by car service or their friends, and mind you I'm in one of the most walkable parts of Riverdale, but these folks only go out to walk their dogs, otherwise they're in their cars.  None of them would walk 15-20 minutes down the hill to Broadway for a bus with such poor frequencies anyway.  They would use Metro-North if anything, which I've heard one of my neighbors mention when inviting people over from the city.  I generally only use it (the BxM3) if I'm going to the city south of 34th street (cuts down on walking and having to transfer) and/or need a Metrocard, otherwise, I take the BxM1, BxM2, BxM18 or walk Metro-North if the weather is nice and I'm the mood to take a stroll.  I also don't really care for the feel of the BxM3.  As you said, more people from Yonkers use it than people in Riverdale, and it certainly feels like that. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Q43 Floral Park]

1. It makes sense because as I said, the area is more car centric and spread out.  Those who can try are too busy trying to keep appearances to use any local bus over there, even though most of the area is working class at best.

 

2.  Kingsbridge is being called the "IT" neighborhood because it's "cheap" relative to Riverdale (I think you can get a 1 bedroom for $1,300 - 1,400) versus studios in Riverdale that now go for $1,400 - 1,900 in the new doorman buildings where I'm at, and best of all, you can walk to the subway.  That's what these newspapers that hype up Kingsbridge always focus on anyway... Subway access. It's also very close to Manhattan.  The BxM3 really serves more of Kingsbridge Heights and Van Cortlandt Village as opposed to Kingsbridge proper.

 

As for your other comment... My neighbors? I'm west of Riverdale Avenue (within walking distance to Wave Hill to give you an idea).  lol Only a few of my neighbors use the express bus and we're nowhere near Broadway anyway.  I saw one lady who lives in my building on the BxM1 that I was on, but everybody else drives or gets picked up by car service or their friends, and mind you I'm in one of the most walkable parts of Riverdale, but these folks only go out to walk their dogs, otherwise they're in their cars.  None of them would walk 15-20 minutes down the hill to Broadway for a bus with such poor frequencies anyway.  They would use Metro-North if anything, which I've heard one of my neighbors mention when inviting people over from the city.  I generally only use it (the BxM3) if I'm going to the city south of 34th street (cuts down on walking and having to transfer) and/or need a Metrocard, otherwise, I take the BxM1, BxM2, BxM18 or walk Metro-North if the weather is nice and I'm the mood to take a stroll.  I also don't really care for the feel of the BxM3.  As you said, more people from Yonkers use it than people in Riverdale, and it certainly feels like that. 

 

1. I'd say that's an odd conclusion to draw... It implies a narrative of "keeping up with the Joneses" while largely ignoring how stagnant public transportation reform has been in the area historically... The fact is even after annexation, the to Dyre had an extra fare like the to the Rockaways for no reason. Unlike the Rockaways, most people needed a bus to get to the train and there were no transfers. That reasonably stifled growth in the area/decreased reliance on public transportation. You can look at the old maps in this thread and see how disjointed bus service was pre-90s http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/41993-bronx-bus-maps-1970s-late-1989/. Even more recently, look at how long it took them get around to combining the Bx16 and sending the Bx31 to Woodlawn. They still don't even have an express bus to Eastchester despite the being an asterisk most of the time.

 

2. I know, it was laughable at best because the has been out most nights/weekends. I always find it funny that they took the time to carve out Van Cortlandt Village and no one uses the name. Tell MTA that... the BxM3 schedule implies it serves Riverdale and Kingsbridge proper. The 2 map also shows Kingsbridge whereas the 1/18 say Marble Hill. It's debatable which of the three is really right.

 

3. When I say your neighbors, I mean in the sense of people you might know in Riverdale that live closer to Broadway (either from CB/local meetings or just from passing conversations). I don't think the Yonkers stops outpace the Riverdale ones by much in regards to ridership. You're entitled to that preference but lol I love the "feel", it's not as stuffy as other routes but has it's moments.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Q43 Floral Park

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1. I'd say that's an odd conclusion to draw... It implies a narrative of "keeping up with the Joneses" while largely ignoring how stagnant public transportation reform has been in the area historically... The fact is even after annexation, the to Dyre had an extra fare like the to the Rockaways for no reason. Unlike the Rockaways, most people needed a bus to get to the train and there were no transfers. That reasonably stifled growth in the area/decreased reliance on public transportation. You can look at the old maps in this thread and see how disjointed bus service was pre-90s http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/41993-bronx-bus-maps-1970s-late-1989/. Even more recently, look at how long it took them get around to combining the Bx16 and sending the Bx31 to Woodlawn. They still don't even have an express bus to Eastchester despite the being an asterisk most of the time.

 

2. I know, it was laughable at best because the has been out most nights/weekends. I always find it funny that they took the time to carve out Van Cortlandt Village and no one uses the name. Tell MTA that... the BxM3 schedule implies it serves Riverdale and Kingsbridge proper. The 2 map also shows Kingsbridge whereas the 1/18 say Marble Hill. It's debatable which of the three is really right.

 

3. When I say your neighbors, I mean in the sense of people you might know in Riverdale that live closer to Broadway (either from CB/local meetings or just from passing conversations). I don't think the Yonkers stops outpace the Riverdale ones by much in regards to ridership. You're entitled to that preference but lol I love the "feel", it's not as stuffy as other routes but has it's moments.

1. Well you'll see more people driving luxury cars over there (often times older models), but symbol status objects nevertheless. It's not odd at all. We're talking about people who may be home owners who aren't originally from here.  Think about that. Everyone has their priorities. Funny  you talk about the lack of an express bus because there's a chick who wrote her thesis  comparing transportation in the Northeast Bronx vs. Riverdale. It's an interesting read. She even talks about how some folks over there don't even know who their elected officials are. I always wondered why the BxM10 wasn't extended further,  but even so,  if those people really wanted that bus,  they could drive to Eastchester Road. There's a huge parking lot nearby. 

 

2. Regarding Van Cortlandt Village,  there is a notable difference in the area.  Housing stock and overall safety is better in that area vs. further south, plus the demographics there are different. Our community board which also covers that area certainly makes the distinction.

 

3. To address your last statement, no I don't know anyone down there, and I rarely go down the hill to Broadway, which is the case for most Riverdalians that live in upstairs Riverdale. While it is Riverdale, it has a completely different vibe with the train station being there. I don't care for it. North Riverdale has a different vibe overall anyway. Even east of Riverdale Avenue feels different due to the Manhattan College crowd. Where I'm at is upscale and quiet since it is closer to the Parkway.  I just think that the BxM3 is an after thought down there. It seems like some folks just prefer to walk to the train, or they take the BxM1, BxM2 or BxM18, even if they are in North Riverdale and east of Riverdale Avenue. 

Edited March 11, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Q43 Floral Park]

1. Well you'll see more people driving luxury cars over there (often times older models), but symbol status objects nevertheless. It's not odd at all. We're talking about people who may be home owners who aren't originally from here.  Think about that. Everyone has their priorities. Funny  you talk about the lack of an express bus because there's a chick who wrote her thesis  comparing transportation in the Northeast Bronx vs. Riverdale. It's an interesting read. She even talks about how some folks over there don't even know who their elected officials are. I always wondered why the BxM10 wasn't extended further,  but even so,  if those people really wanted that bus,  they could drive to Eastchester Road. There's a huge parking lot nearby. 

 

2. Regarding Van Cortlandt Village,  there is a notable difference in the area.  Housing stock and overall safety is better in that area vs. further south, plus the demographics there are different. Our community board which also covers that area certainly makes the distinction.

 

3. To address your last statement, no I don't know anyone down there, and I rarely go down the hill to Broadway, which is the case for most Riverdalians that live in upstairs Riverdale. While it is Riverdale, it has a completely different vibe with the train station being there. I don't care for it. North Riverdale has a different vibe overall anyway. Even east of Riverdale Avenue feels different due to the Manhattan College crowd. Where I'm at is upscale and quiet since it is closer to the Parkway.  I just think that the BxM3 is an after thought down there. It seems like some folks just prefer to walk to the train, or they take the BxM1, BxM2 or BxM18, even if they are in North Riverdale and east of Riverdale Avenue. 

 

1. More people driving luxury cars as opposed to where? Even if its a symbol of status, "showing off" most certainly isn't the primary reason for purchase. The fact remains that historically you had to be able to afford to live over there because of bad public transportation regardless of your country of origin/racial demographic that = having a car. If you ever have time check out the Routes Not Taken, there's a whole chapter that discusses this. I'd be interested in reading that thesis because I largely disagree, it's a lot easier to run general errands/commute in the NW Bronx vs. NE Bronx. I'm sure people are driving to Boston/Eastchester but there's nothing stopping the BxM10 from the going north to say Laconia/233 or Boston/Dyre. You could probably add SX runs that cut to the Bruckner either at Pelham Pkwy or Gun Hill/ start runs at those points so the Morris Park riders have a better chance at a seat and the northern riders get a faster ride.

 

2/3. Or they take the Bx9 which runs way too frequently up there. Like I said if you're at CB meetings and there's probably someone there you could encourage to use the BxM3 if you're actually concerned about it being in danger. It might require putting aside your personal opinions but it would be worth it.

 

 

Going back to proposals: Is there a way to rectify Morris Park being a 3 seat ride to Bay Plaza without a new route? Prior to them creating the Bx24 I would have said send the Bx21 to Pelham Bay instead of the Square but I know that'd be way too much service on Westchester now.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1. More people driving luxury cars as opposed to where? Even if its a symbol of status, "showing off" most certainly isn't the primary reason for purchase. The fact remains that historically you had to be able to afford to live over there because of bad public transportation regardless of your country of origin/racial demographic that = having a car. If you ever have time check out the Routes Not Taken, there's a whole chapter that discusses this. I'd be interested in reading that thesis because I largely disagree, it's a lot easier to run general errands/commute in the NW Bronx vs. NE Bronx. I'm sure people are driving to Boston/Eastchester but there's nothing stopping the BxM10 from the going north to say Laconia/233 or Boston/Dyre. You could probably add SX runs that cut to the Bruckner either at Pelham Pkwy or Gun Hill/ start runs at those points so the Morris Park riders have a better chance at a seat and the northern riders get a faster ride.

 

2/3. Or they take the Bx9 which runs way too frequently up there. Like I said if you're at CB meetings and there's probably someone there you could encourage to use the BxM3 if you're actually concerned about it being in danger. It might require putting aside your personal opinions but it would be worth it.

 

 

Going back to proposals: Is there a way to rectify Morris Park being a 3 seat ride to Bay Plaza without a new route? Prior to them creating the Bx24 I would have said send the Bx21 to Pelham Bay instead of the Square but I know that'd be way too much service on Westchester now.

1. i don't deny that historically the area has lacked transit options, but part of that is because those folks are too busy keeping up appearances. As for the BxM10, I would expect to see more people using it than what I did,  but I will say a lot of the folks while nice that I interacted with came off as pretentious. They really painted themselves in a way that I found funny. I remember one lady who I waited with at 86th and 3rd. Somehow we started discussing our world travels and she made a point to note how she came to city and stayed at high-end hotels. In short the people up there seem to have other priorities. There aren't enough of them that use the BxM10 to advocate for an extension, and the masses are just trying to get from point A to point B.  What is that area anyway? Baychester? Have asked residents there a few times and have received different answers. 

 

Regarding the Bx9, where exactly would you turn it around then? Those folks only  have that bus to get to the subway.

 

As for the BxM3, fat chance of me being an influence in that regard. That line is what it is.  It would need more service and more SX trips to be attractive, neither of which are happening. 

 

As for Morris Park, who is going to Bay Plaza like that? If anything those folks go to Westchester for shopping. 

[B35 via Church]

....While we're talking about the NE Bronx, I do think something should be done about the way the Bx16 meanders around. Maybe have the Bx34 cover the Nereid Avenue portion (and either end at Mundy Lane, or the #54 terminal at South Fulton), and just have the Bx16 run straight across 233rd (with a new route running from Wakefield to Bay Plaza via Baychester Avenue).....

I'd want no part of running the Bx34 past Katonah/242nd.... Having the Bx34 end at Mt. St. Michael (Mundy lane) instead of reverting the old Bx16 short turns to do that very thing, or in the middle of light industrial Mt Vernon (where the BL-54 ends) would have those buses (the extended Bx34's) revisiting the same exact problem the old short turn Bx16's had - riders generally not utilizing it east of the ..... Hell, I  don't agree with having the current Bx31 run up to Katonah/242nd, so having it & an extended Bx34 serve the I most certainly can't concur with.....

 

Having all Bx16's run the full (well, combined) route instantly brought consistent ridership to the route, because it meant service to residential Baychester av & points east running at MUCH better headways than every every 20-30 (which was flat out retarded).... Yes, this was before the prevalence of Post Road Plaza (the shopping area Q43 Floral's referring to), when virtually no one rode the Bx16 past Dyre/Boston.... Even if I were to disregard the revamping of that dead... plaza (can't really call it a dead mall), the MTA treated the Bx16 (and this is where I drive the point home) as if the bulk of the ridership existed b/w the & the , when the bulk of the ridership existed between Dyre & the !!!

 

Now that I mention it, usage actually isn't all that great on the Bx16 from the in particular (same deal w/ the Bx10 btw, but that's neither here nor there.... It starts to pick up due north, at Gun Hill (again, same as the Bx10 - except that stop is on Gun Hill after the turn off Bainbridge, while the Bx16 stop is on Bainbridge, short of Gun Hill)....

 

To sum it up, I don't have a problem with the meandering in this case, because it significantly spawned ridership on the route throughout the day... I don't have the old ridership numbers in front of me, but a simple wayback machine search will do the trick (or if you happen to have it saved somewhere, you can check it out if you wish)..... But yeah, after they got rid of the shorties (around aught 7/8), it quelled a few problems the route had (inadequate service to/from where the bulk of the riders took the thing, bunching, inconsistent ridership)......

 

The only real *thing* I still have with the Bx16 is that it uses Webster --> 233rd.... To me, it's a waste of time....

I mentioned this in another Bx16 discussion, but I would have buses from the east, continue on Nereid (which turns into McLean) to VCP East (no stops along VCP east), to regular route.... That would speed things up a bit for the current patrons of the route out there, instead of morphing it into a 233rd route & risk losing ridership overall in the NE Bronx - Which is a serious concern I'd have with extending the Bx34 & straightening the Bx16 to duplicate the Bx31 up there.....

 

So... you want to

a) completely cut Nereid off from the Shopping Plaza on Pelham Line and the connection Dyre for when WPR fouls up

b) duplicate Bx31 service along E 233 Street

c) cut service levels on Nereid (Bx16 is more frequent than the Bx34)

d) cut service off Webster Av (because your rerouted 34 can't serve Katonah, Webster and Nereid)

e) add a Baychester Av route (thats really just siphoning Bx30 riders from Sec4/Bay Plaza)

just because the Bx16 "meanders" around Mundy?

 

Sorry, the decision to combine the 16 branches was the best thing to happen up there. It actually helps prevent bus bunching.

This... and with the extent of how it's used in the NE Bronx, it's plain as day....

 

The every-other-trip running the full route bit stymied the thing.... If it was that dire to serve Mt. St. Michael, they should have had a tripper do the job & have that be the end of it.... Or, came out with the current Bx16 routing a long time ago....

[Around the Horn]

I don't care what he has.  I don't support City services going across City lines for people in Westchester. If Westchester needs bus service, let them pay for it.  

 

^This mentality is why our transit network is shit.

[IAlam]

I don't see an issue with NYCT buses crossing the city Line. As long as New Yorkers have a use for it, like the S89 and the Q5/85 Both of those leave the city, but mainly serve New yorkers, so it's not that bad. Then there are route like the n20G, which are really serving New Yorkers more than Long Islanders take an AM n20G to LI and back if you don't believe me. If the route goes into Westchester but serves New Yorkers, then I see no issue with such a line.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

^This mentality is why our transit network is shit.

No it's called making sure the services we're paying for are being used primarily by City residents. It's that simple. We shouldn't be paying for services for the benefit of Westchester residents. Edited March 12, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

No it's called making sure the services we're paying for are being used primarily by City residents. It's that simple. We shouldn't be paying for services for the benefit of Westchester residents.

This is the same mentality that suburbanites have towards city residents when it comes to the RR's.....

 

For instance, the CT snotrags that don't want New Yorkers on "their" train.... But yet, those f***ers have carte blanche to not only benefit (yes, benefit) from a ride to/from Manhattan to get to/from work, but advertise properties in "their" state as being 'x' amount of minutes away from New York....

 

Aint that some shit.

 

All I'm saying is, that line of thinking goes both ways....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This is the same mentality that suburbanites have towards city residents when it comes to the RR's.....

 

For instance, the CT snotrags that don't want New Yorkers on "their" train.... But yet, those f***ers have carte blanche to not only benefit (yes, benefit) from a ride to/from Manhattan to get to/from work, but advertise properties in "their" state as being 'x' amount of minutes away from New York....

 

Aint that some shit.

 

All I'm saying is, that line of thinking goes both ways....

And that's precisely why I have the position that I do because I'm well aware of how they operate.

[checkmatechamp13]

I don't see an issue with NYCT buses crossing the city Line. As long as New Yorkers have a use for it, like the S89 and the Q5/85 Both of those leave the city, but mainly serve New yorkers, so it's not that bad. Then there are route like the n20G, which are really serving New Yorkers more than Long Islanders take an AM n20G to LI and back if you don't believe me. If the route goes into Westchester but serves New Yorkers, then I see no issue with such a line.  

 

There's also the Q114, which stops in Five Towns in Nassau en route to Far Rockaway. It would be pointless to have all buses run the Q113 route just to avoid having them stop in Nassau.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

 

For instance, the CT snotrags that don't want New Yorkers on "their" train.... But yet, those f***ers have carte blanche to not only benefit (yes, benefit) from a ride to/from Manhattan to get to/from work, but advertise properties in "their" state as being 'x' amount of minutes away from New York....

 

 

Actually, it is their train. Within Connecticut, Metro-North is merely a contract carrier. Service levels and fares are governed by CDOT.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Actually, it is their train. Within Connecticut, Metro-North is merely a contract carrier. Service levels and fares are governed by CDOT.

Which is BS. Their trains terminate in GCT, and yet New Yorkers can't use them within city borders. So as I said before since they have such rules, we need to ensure that city services aren't being siphoned off by people in the suburbs.

[B35 via Church]

^This mentality is why our transit network is shit.

The mentality of your average suburbanite is why our transit network, especially when it comes to buses, is severely poorly interconnected (i.e, shit... Lol).... The urbanite's reponse is, and has always been 100% reactionary.... Hate to preach, but it's the quintessential example of two wrongs not making a right.... While I don't agree with how VG8 feels about it all, I do understand it..... Personally, I'd rather promote (or at least try to) suburban - urban travel (outside of high speed rail, that is), than to be on the other side of the coin of "f*** you, pay me", basically.....

 

- Urbanites are rather open about suburbanites being on buses & subways (the ones that do use them after coming off the LIRR/MNRR/NJT RR anyway)....

- Suburbanites OTOH not only stigmatize urbanites (even the ones living better off than most other urbanites), but stigmatize lower class suburbanites as well....

 

The have's have a tendency to look down on the have not's... What I find funny is you have the have not's that are better off in some cases than the have's (esp. in terms of character, but be there as it may...)...

 

Suburbia is an urban getaway.... Public transportation is supposed to be beneficial for all parties, but suburbanites use public transit to get to metropolis', where a large amount of them work (and "play", if you catch my drift)... Compare that to us urbanites' use of public transit; we don't just use it to get to/from work....

 

This is why I absolutely adore all these suburbanites that are running away from suburbia here in the 21st century.... Sucks when you don't have the almighty personal vehicle at your arsenal... I mean, how many people do you see taking to RR to go food shopping? There would be a silent lambasting (or amongst each other, if amongst a group) from just about anyone else in that particular RR car

 

I don't see an issue with NYCT buses crossing the city Line. As long as New Yorkers have a use for it, like the S89 and the Q5/85 Both of those leave the city, but mainly serve New yorkers, so it's not that bad. Then there are route like the n20G, which are really serving New Yorkers more than Long Islanders take an AM n20G to LI and back if you don't believe me. If the route goes into Westchester but serves New Yorkers, then I see no issue with such a line.  

Although I haven't given Jubai's particular idea any thought as of yet, in regards to what you're saying here, I'd go about matters on a case by case basis as to [whether some route should be extended across county lines], or [the creation of a new route that would transport folks across county lines]...

 

In other words, I'm not for extending routes over county lines willy-nilly just to support the cause (an eastward extension of the Q4 to..... wherever the hell some ppl. justify sending it in Nassau county, I categorize as such)....

 

To your other point, of course the n20 (regardless of now that it's been split) serves more NYC patrons than Nassau patrons... The folks that live in the part of Nassau county that the n20 serves, is car country USA...... The route that gets the most patronization in northern Nassau county is the n27 and... it's... not... even... close... But yeah, the splitting up of the n20 made the fact you're pointing out all the more conspicuous..... It's a reason why I was never fond of extending the Q12 to LIRR Great Neck....

[IAlam]

There's also the Q114, which stops in Five Towns in Nassau en route to Far Rockaway. It would be pointless to have all buses run the Q113 route just to avoid having them stop in Nassau.

 

 

To your other point, of course the n20 (regardless of now that it's been split) serves more NYC patrons than Nassau patrons... The folks that live in the part of Nassau county that the n20 serves, is car country USA...... The route that gets the most patronization in northern Nassau county is the n27 and... it's... not... even... close... But yeah, the splitting up of the n20 made the fact you're pointing out all the more conspicuous..... It's a reason why I was never fond of extending the Q12 to LIRR Great Neck....

 

But those stops mainly serve Nassau residents, which although I have mixed feelings about I can understand. n20 is that only case where I see Nassau paying for New York.

 

Which is BS. Their trains terminate in GCT, and yet New Yorkers can't use them within city borders. So as I said before since they have such rules, we need to ensure that city services aren't being siphoned off by people in the suburbs.

I've seen people get on at Fordham all the time going to GCT, I doubt the train crew really cares. 

 

 

The have's have a tendency to look down on the have not's... What I find funny is you have the have not's that are better off in some cases than the have's (esp. in terms of character, but be there as it may...)...

 

Suburbia is an urban getaway.... Public transportation is supposed to be beneficial for all parties, but suburbanites use public transit to get to metropolis', where a large amount of them work (and "play", if you catch my drift)... Compare that to us urbanites' use of public transit; we don't just use it to get to/from work....

 

This is why I absolutely adore all these suburbanites that are running away from suburbia here in the 21st century.... Sucks when you don't have the almighty personal vehicle at your arsenal... I mean, how many people do you see taking to RR to go food shopping? There would be a silent lambasting (or amongst each other, if amongst a group) from just about anyone else in that particular RR car

Living in Queens I see both sides to your story first hand. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I've seen people get on at Fordham all the time going to GCT, I doubt the train crew really cares.

Those people are taking a chance. I've gotten on those trains in Westchester and sometimes they don't check, but when they do... I know the ones on the Hudson line have been checking like crazy.

[B35 via Church]

But those stops mainly serve Nassau residents, which although I have mixed feelings about I can understand. n20 is that only case where I see Nassau paying for New York.

That's the point I was making (about the n27)...

 

Anyway, have Nassau patrons tell it, they're paying for the entire bus system for the benefit of city folks....

It doesn't help matters when you name the thing Nassau inter county express....

Edited March 12, 2017 by B35 via Church

[IAlam]

Those people are taking a chance. I've gotten on those trains in Westchester and sometimes they don't check, but when they do... I know the ones on the Hudson line have been checking like crazy.

I mean what's the worst they can do if you already have a ticket? I doubt they'll kick you off, assuming that you didn't pass 125th st yet. After that point it's already too late. 

 

 

That's the point I was making (about the n27)...

 

Anyway, have Nassau patrons tell it, they're paying for the entire bus system for the benefit of city folks....

It doesn't help matters when you name the thing Nassau inter county express....

I was referring to both post, yours and the one above. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I mean what's the worst they can do if you already have a ticket? I doubt they'll kick you off, assuming that you didn't pass 125th st yet. After that point it's already too late.

Upcharge you from whatever the last stop was before reaching Fordham, which could be substantial.

[Around the Horn]

Upcharge you from whatever the last stop was before reaching Fordham, which could be substantial.

 

So wait you can't board a inbound New Haven train at Fordham, and if you do you'll get upcharged? That's stupid.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So wait you can't board a inbound New Haven train at Fordham, and if you do you'll get upcharged? That's stupid.

Nowhere within city borders because Connecticut has a special agreement with the . They pay the for such a setup. Edited March 12, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8