Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[DaTransitMan4608]

I know this plan may sound a bit unnecessary, but I was thinking about it the other day.

 

New Express route: BxM12

 

Co-Op City - Midtown 23 St via Bruckner Expwy/Bway/9th Ave.

 

Stops:

Bay Plaza

All loop stops along Co-Op City Blvd

Pelham Bay Park

Bruckner Blvd/Tremont Ave

Bruckner Blvd/WPR

(Manhattan)

(Across 125th off the RFK, left turn on Amsterdam)

Amsterdam/110th

(Right turn on 103rd, left on Bway)

Broadway/96th

Broadway/61st

(Right turn on 60th, Left onto 9th Ave)

9th Ave/57th

9th Ave/41st

9th Ave/34th

9th Ave/25th

(Left turn on 23rd)

23rd St/Bway.

 

It's basically a West side version of the Co-Op City BxM lines. I made it because I realized that getting to the West Side from that area of the Bronx is a bit of a trek since most buses from there only go via the East Side. It's really my first Express bus proposal so if I'm missing anything don't hesitate to tell me.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

Edited October 28, 2016 by DaTransitMan4608

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I know this plan may sound a bit unnecessary, but I was thinking about it the other day.

 

New Express route: BxM12

 

Co-Op City - Midtown 23 St via Bruckner Expwy/Bway/9th Ave.

 

Stops:

Bay Plaza

All loop stops along Co-Op City Blvd

Pelham Bay Park

Bruckner Blvd/Tremont Ave

Bruckner Blvd/WPR

(Manhattan)

(Across 125th off the RFK, left turn on Amsterdam)

Amsterdam/110th

(Right turn on 103rd, left on Bway)

Broadway/96th

Broadway/61st

(Right turn on 60th, Left onto 9th Ave)

9th Ave/57th

9th Ave/41st

9th Ave/34th

9th Ave/25th

(Left turn on 23rd)

23rd St/Bway.

 

It's basically a West side version of the Co-Op City BxM lines. I made it because I realized that getting to the West Side from that area of the Bronx is a bit of a trek since most buses from there only go via the East Side. It's really my first Express bus proposal so if I'm missing anything don't hesitate to tell me.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

The BxM7 runs via 5th Avenue because 5th Avenue is NOT East or West.  It's technically in between the East and West Side which allows for people to make their way accordingly.  I'm not so sure a West Side route would do so well anyway.  You have to a strong enough base to support a West Side route and none of the areas of the Bronx fit that mold.  Riverdale has the BxM2 because of its demographics.  Many people from the Upper West Side move to Riverdale, and its location makes it a candidate for the express bus routes that it has.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Q43LTD]

His route is basically a BxM7/8 hybrid.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I suppose, but where does the ridership come from? Usually people move to areas based on where they commute, shop etc. and stay within that parameter. Co-Op City isn't the only area with that problem. I'll use myself as a example. I spend a lot of time on the Upper West Side and Upper East Side as opposed to Downtown which is one reason I moved to Riverdale. In other words, if people in Co-Op City really went to the West Side they likely would've moved to an area that has better access. The other thing is you would have to restructure the BxM7 and see how much service you run since you would have too much service with the West Side option. The current BxM7 would have to run on the East Side instead of down 5th. 

Edited October 29, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[78 via Stew Leonards]

Completely unnecessary.  First off, it would also cut off transfers to other express buses.  With it running down 5th it deals with the same delays that other 5th Avenue express buses face.  Not only that it runs in between the BxM1 and BxM2 for a reason.  Many people in Riverdale work between 7th and 3rd Avenues in Midtown (lots of white collar professionals in my neighborhood in managerial positions (myself included)) and use the BxM18 because they can walk to their office from it.  The rest of the people that take it need it for Downtown/Wall Street area.  I use it for both Downtown and Midtown to be honest.  Coming to and from meetings Downtown it usually runs where I need to be.  Same deal in Midtown.  The only change I would make is having it skip the Deegan more often and run via Inwood (non-stop of course) so that it uses the Harlem River Drive where possible. Have it get off at 143rd and 5th and continue from there.  If it can avoid that traffic most of the time it can run okay. 

5th Ave has terrible traffic in Harlem north of that park, and Inwood has gotten terrible too. Sometimes it takes 20-25 minutes just getting through Inwood. The express buses should really avoid 5th Ave when they dont absolutely neeed to use it. Madison Ave can be just as bad in rush hour, especially near the bridge where traffic can be backed up all the way to 116th.  That's why I suggested the BxM18 should use the 3rd/Willis Ave Bridges which dont have the same traffic problems, or even the RFK if they need to.  I also dont understand why many express buses dont use the FDR to 96th or 106th and avoid more traffic...

[B35 via Church]

The simple problem I have with this latest proposal is that it's too far west for where the masses are generally heading to, when they're going to Manhattan.... I can understand bringing Co-op patrons to the 7th/8th av area around the Garment District & Penn station (area), but 9th? Then you're predisposing buses to what the M11 has to deal with - Holland tunnel traffic.... Yikes!

[78 via Stew Leonards]

i think a BxM7/8 hybrid is too long for an Express route. I would keep it contained to Co-Op in the Bx and maybe have it mirror the BxM2 in manhattan if you're thinking of a west side route. I also think BxM5 would be a better number than 12

[checkmatechamp13]

The simple problem I have with this latest proposal is that it's too far west for where the masses are generally heading to, when they're going to Manhattan.... I can understand bringing Co-op patrons to the 7th/8th av area around the Garment District & Penn station (area), but 9th? Then you're predisposing buses to what the M11 has to deal with - Holland tunnel traffic.... Yikes!

 

You mean Lincoln Tunnel, right?

[B35 via Church]

You mean Lincoln Tunnel, right?

Thank you... Yes, the Lincoln.

[DaTransitMan4608]

The simple problem I have with this latest proposal is that it's too far west for where the masses are generally heading to, when they're going to Manhattan.... I can understand bringing Co-op patrons to the 7th/8th av area around the Garment District & Penn station (area), but 9th? Then you're predisposing buses to what the M11 has to deal with - Holland tunnel traffic.... Yikes!

Originally I had planned to keep it following the BxM2, but I figured that the Bway traffic heading downtown would make the run times longer. I used 9th Ave as a means of bypassing that. But if keeping it mirroring the BxM2 on the WestSide works better, then I guess it doesn't have to serve 9th Ave.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Originally I had planned to keep it following the BxM2, but I figured that the Bway traffic heading downtown would make the run times longer. I used 9th Ave as a means of bypassing that. But if keeping it mirroring the BxM2 on the WestSide works better, then I guess it doesn't have to serve 9th Ave.

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

The BxM2 is a mess south of 50th street due to endless construction going on by Times Square. It has a while that I used it going down to 34th street, but the buses still have enough run time to allow for this. A Co-Op City bus mirroring a Riverdale bus makes no sense. Different ridership bases. The BxM2 during the week... Most of the ridership now is from Mount Sinai (doctors and nurses), the stop at 5th and 80th, Central Park West and 7th are and 57th. After that the bus tends to be dead so you would need some big stops like the BxM2 has in order for a West Side bus to survive. Weekends the BxM2 survives from shoppers, museum goers and the like.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5th Ave has terrible traffic in Harlem north of that park, and Inwood has gotten terrible too. Sometimes it takes 20-25 minutes just getting through Inwood. The express buses should really avoid 5th Ave when they dont absolutely neeed to use it. Madison Ave can be just as bad in rush hour, especially near the bridge where traffic can be backed up all the way to 116th.  That's why I suggested the BxM18 should use the 3rd/Willis Ave Bridges which dont have the same traffic problems, or even the RFK if they need to.  I also dont understand why many express buses dont use the FDR to 96th or 106th and avoid more traffic...

5th north of the park can be bad but not always. 3rd/Willis Avenue bridge is hit or miss.

[IAlam]

Originally I had planned to keep it following the BxM2, but I figured that the Bway traffic heading downtown would make the run times longer. I used 9th Ave as a means of bypassing that. But if keeping it mirroring the BxM2 on the WestSide works better, then I guess it doesn't have to serve 9th Ave.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

 

 

The BxM2 is a mess south of 50th street due to endless construction going on by Times Square. It has a while that I used it going down to 34th street, but the buses still have enough run time to allow for this. A Co-Op City bus mirroring a Riverdale bus makes no sense. Different ridership bases. The BxM2 during the week... Most of the ridership now is from Mount Sinai (doctors and nurses), the stop at 5th and 80th, Central Park West and 7th are and 57th. After that the bus tends to be dead so you would need some big stops like the BxM2 has in order for a West Side bus to survive. Weekends the BxM2 survives from shoppers, museum goers and the like.

 

I could see it mainly as a rush hour BXM2 duplicate that serves people of the East Bronx over the West Bronx, nothing more, nothing less. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I could see it mainly as a rush hour BXM2 duplicate that serves people of the East Bronx over the West Bronx, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Assuming you have enough ridership. The BxM2 most of the day only has 30 minute headways. The two via Riverdale trips do see good usage. I have used both of them.

[IAlam]

Assuming you have enough ridership. The BxM2 most of the day only has 30 minute headways. The two via Riverdale trips do see good usage. I have used both of them.

Yeah, Riverdale is interesting the BXM2 doesn't get as many riders or service as compared to the BXM1 during the rush. Yet in the evening, the BXM2 has more ridership and service.

 

 

Anyway getting back to the topic the only reason I see ti as a rush hour variant, is because the BXM7 already has good off-peak so it would be unnecessary to add service or even worse split service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, Riverdale is interesting the BXM2 doesn't get as many riders or service as compared to the BXM1 during the rush. Yet in the evening, the BXM2 has more ridership and service.

 

 

Anyway getting back to the topic the only reason I see ti as a rush hour variant, is because the BXM7 already has good off-peak so it would be unnecessary to add service or even worse split service.

That's because the BxM1 is closer to where most people need to go. At night people do things on the West Side.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

Route proposal from Northeast Bronx to Mount Vernon. Originating from Bay Plaza Mall the route would take Bartow, Ely, 222nd St, and WPR northbound into Mount Vernon. The last remaining piece of this proposal is the routing and terminal within Mount Vernon. I will add that when it's settled on.

[FLX9304]

If I was you, I'll leave the Bronx routes as it is now. Where it's really needed is the places where people have no access to bus routes. Mainly east of White Plains Road and south of Story Ave.

 

There should be a route serving Lafayette Ave the New Throggs Neck Shopping Center. 2 routes can't handle this kind of crowd coming out of there

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Route proposal from Northeast Bronx to Mount Vernon. Originating from Bay Plaza Mall the route would take Bartow, Ely, 222nd St, and WPR northbound into Mount Vernon. The last remaining piece of this proposal is the routing and terminal within Mount Vernon. I will add that when it's settled on.

Doesn't the Bx16 already run by the Mount Vernon border?

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Doesn't the Bx16 already run by the Mount Vernon border?

 

The block of Mundy Lane between Pitman and Nereid straddles the border. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The block of Mundy Lane between Pitman and Nereid straddles the border.

 

I don't see why we need to create a route for Mount Vernon. Let Bee Line serve them. They are a part of Westchester, not NYC.

[Future ENY OP]

I don't see why we need to create a route for Mount Vernon. Let Bee Line serve them. They are a part of Westchester, not NYC.

The BxM3 serve Yonkers?? Yes or No?

 

So what's the matter with Mount Vernon service to the Bronx. If the is supposed to be regional why can't the tap into the Westchester/Rockland/Orange/Dutchess/Albany bus networks?

[checkmatechamp13]

Route proposal from Northeast Bronx to Mount Vernon. Originating from Bay Plaza Mall the route would take Bartow, Ely, 222nd St, and WPR northbound into Mount Vernon. The last remaining piece of this proposal is the routing and terminal within Mount Vernon. I will add that when it's settled on.

 

Well, I do like the idea of a route covering the Ely/222nd Street corridor, but I don't think it should go up WPR to Mount Vernon. If any Mount Vernon route should be extended deeper into The Bronx, it should be the #52 or #55.

 

There's something to be said for covering it with the Bx8 (which already runs down 222nd for a few blocks heading eastbound, as you know). Have it take Bronxwood-Gun Hill-WPR, and then take 222nd down.

 

While we're talking about the NE Bronx, I do think something should be done about the way the Bx16 meanders around. Maybe have the Bx34 cover the Nereid Avenue portion (and either end at Mundy Lane, or the #54 terminal at South Fulton), and just have the Bx16 run straight across 233rd (with a new route running from Wakefield to Bay Plaza via Baychester Avenue). 

 

I don't see why we need to create a route for Mount Vernon. Let Bee Line serve them. They are a part of Westchester, not NYC.

 

Hmmm....he has a specific routing in The Bronx, to serve corridors which currently have no bus service, and the Mount Vernon routing is yet to be determined.....I wonder which county this route is intended to primarily serve.....

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

Well, I do like the idea of a route covering the Ely/222nd Street corridor, but I don't think it should go up WPR to Mount Vernon. If any Mount Vernon route should be extended deeper into The Bronx, it should be the #52 or #55.

 

There's something to be said for covering it with the Bx8 (which already runs down 222nd for a few blocks heading eastbound, as you know). Have it take Bronxwood-Gun Hill-WPR, and then take 222nd down.

 

While we're talking about the NE Bronx, I do think something should be done about the way the Bx16 meanders around. Maybe have the Bx34 cover the Nereid Avenue portion (and either end at Mundy Lane, or the #54 terminal at South Fulton), and just have the Bx16 run straight across 233rd (with a new route running from Wakefield to Bay Plaza via Baychester Avenue). 

 

 

Hmmm....he has a specific routing in The Bronx, to serve corridors which currently have no bus service, and the Mount Vernon routing is yet to be determined.....I wonder which county this route is intended to primarily serve.....

I've settled on a Northern terminal at the Fleetwood MNRR stop with the route traveling along W 1st, Gramatan and Broad St W going up from WPR/241. Next consideration of mine is an express bus type set-up to reach Yonkers on a one seat ride from the NE Bronx but I have even begun to think about a physical routing for it.

[Q43 Floral Park]

Well, I do like the idea of a route covering the Ely/222nd Street corridor, but I don't think it should go up WPR to Mount Vernon. If any Mount Vernon route should be extended deeper into The Bronx, it should be the #52 or #55.

 

There's something to be said for covering it with the Bx8 (which already runs down 222nd for a few blocks heading eastbound, as you know). Have it take Bronxwood-Gun Hill-WPR, and then take 222nd down.

 

While we're talking about the NE Bronx, I do think something should be done about the way the Bx16 meanders around. Maybe have the Bx34 cover the Nereid Avenue portion (and either end at Mundy Lane, or the #54 terminal at South Fulton), and just have the Bx16 run straight across 233rd (with a new route running from Wakefield to Bay Plaza via Baychester Avenue). 

 

 

Hmmm....he has a specific routing in The Bronx, to serve corridors which currently have no bus service, and the Mount Vernon routing is yet to be determined.....I wonder which county this route is intended to primarily serve.....

 

Let me start off by saying that I don't see the need for anything else to terminate in Bay Plaza/ Co-op City at this point.... There isn't a portion of the N/E Bronx that can't access it either with a direct route or 1 transfer besides Morris Park Av.

 

I mentioned this a while back in the thread but E 222 St and Burke are the only N/E Bronx main streets with no service and you can run a route that serves both and encourages ridership at Baychester without entering Co-op or Mount Vernon (especially not via WPR crawling behind Bx39s/BxM11s). I actually agree with VG8 here, let Bee Line extend one of their routes.

 

So... you want to

a) completely cut Nereid off from the Shopping Plaza on Pelham Line and the connection Dyre for when WPR fouls up

b) duplicate Bx31 service along E 233 Street

c) cut service levels on Nereid (Bx16 is more frequent than the Bx34)

d) cut service off Webster Av (because your rerouted 34 can't serve Katonah, Webster and Nereid)

e) add a Baychester Av route (thats really just siphoning Bx30 riders from Sec4/Bay Plaza)

just because the Bx16 "meanders" around Mundy?

 

Sorry, the decision to combine the 16 branches was the best thing to happen up there. It actually helps prevent bus bunching.

 

The BxM3 serve Yonkers?? Yes or No?

 

Yes because it did that when it was a Liberty Lines route and I cant think of a single good reason for cutting it back to 261/Bway.