R211 Discussion Thread

[NBTA]

5 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

How does it serve no purpose? If it shows that it works better on the  then the  as the original idea, that would benefit the system, not throw it into chaos. 
Very, very interesting take. 

[subwaycommuter1983]

21 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

How does it serve no purpose? If it shows that it works better on the  then the  as the original idea, that would benefit the system, not throw it into chaos.

How??

Continuing to dump old equipment to the A and C trains is not going to benefit the system.

Like it or not, the A and C trains will get the base order plus some the first option order of r211's.

The NW trains may get some r160's , but they are not going to be fully NTTs until the r68's are gone.

The people from Astoria need to stop whining and relax. They are not entitled to having new trains and they are not better than the people who live in areas served by the AC.

[Lawrence St]

Just now, subwaycommuter1983 said:

How??

Continuing to dump old equipment to the A and C trains is not going to benefit the system.

Like it or not, the A and C trains will get the base order plus some the first option order of r211's.

The NW trains may get some r160's , but they are not going to be fully NTTs until the r68's are gone.

The people from Astoria need to stop whining and relax. They are not entitled to having new trains and they are not better than the people who live in areas served by the AC.

Who said anything about dumping anything on any line or that people are whining? Those were two examples.

We really need to stop with this “but this line has had old stuff for X amount of years!” News flash: the world does not revolve around a specific line. If it benefits the system that the  get the R211 and the  gets the R160’s, then that’s what will happen. If it works better on the  then the  then that’s what will happen. The  is not here to appease a specific line with new shiny equipment, period. 

[ABOGbrooklyn]

I rather have the 160s back in CI and the & can have the 211s.. the 160s were great on the and should be that way. Yall can keep the train with less seats..

[RandomRider0101]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Who said anything about dumping anything on any line or that people are whining? Those were two examples.

We really need to stop with this “but this line has had old stuff for X amount of years!” News flash: the world does not revolve around a specific line. If it benefits the system that the  get the R211 and the  gets the R160’s, then that’s what will happen. If it works better on the  then the  then that’s what will happen. The  is not here to appease a specific line with new shiny equipment, period. 

I get what you're saying, but the already confirmed that the & will be getting the r211s. Granted, nothing is set in stone and plans can change at any time. But until any such change is made, this is what will happen. Same thing applies to the Lex getting the r262s.

 

[Kamen Rider]

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

How does it serve no purpose? If it shows that it works better on the  then the  as the original idea, that would benefit the system, not throw it into chaos.

Okay.. first off… the R211s are to expand the CBTC capable fleet for the 8th avenue CBTC installation…

 

why the $&@€£¥ would we put them on the N, a line not getting CBTC any time soon?

 

secondly. Crews need to be qualified on new equipment. There are new features and details on the 211s that even we are not aware of yet, let alone you guys.

 

testing them on every line requires every line to have qualified crews that can take the train at a moments notice or have a dedicated crew that follows the train from line to line.

the chaos comes in because this idea would interfere with the crew assignments because, again, you’re tossing in a train not everyone knows how to handle.

[Lawrence St]

2 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

Okay.. first off… the R211s are to expand the CBTC capable fleet for the 8th avenue CBTC installation…

 

why the $&@€£¥ would we put them on the N, a line not getting CBTC any time soon?

 

secondly. Crews need to be qualified on new equipment. There are new features and details on the 211s that even we are not aware of yet, let alone you guys.

 

testing them on every line requires every line to have qualified crews that can take the train at a moments notice or have a dedicated crew that follows the train from line to line.

the chaos comes in because this idea would interfere with the crew assignments because, again, you’re tossing in a train not everyone knows how to handle.

Your telling me all 1,000 cars are for 8th Ave?

I understand the point your making but that has nothing to do with what I said for the test train.

And why you say? Let’s see, Broadway is one of the busiest lines in the system in which the R211T would benefit. Or it could be Queens Blvd. Or CPW. Point is, it’s to see where the train can handle better for the eventual placement when the entire order is delivered. 
 

And no it wouldn’t, have two crews qualified to operate the train on each line. They’ve done it before to do clearance testing they can do it again.

[biGC323232]

37 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Your telling me all 1,000 cars are for 8th Ave?

I understand the point your making but that has nothing to do with what I said for the test train.

And why you say? Let’s see, Broadway is one of the busiest lines in the system in which the R211T would benefit. Or it could be Queens Blvd. Or CPW. Point is, it’s to see where the train can handle better for the eventual placement when the entire order is delivered. 
 

And no it wouldn’t, have two crews qualified to operate the train on each line. They’ve done it before to do clearance testing they can do it again.

Yup..Thats whats she's telling u....Nowadays new cars are gonna go where cbtc are being put in at.....Bottom line point blank period...We in a time where lines that needs new cars the most gonna have to wait longer unfortunitely cause of tech taking over signaling systems....We all know by now the lines that needs new cars...We also should know by now why they not receiving them until the near future...

[Lawrence St]

12 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

Yup..Thats whats she's telling u....Nowadays new cars are gonna go where cbtc are being put in at.....Bottom line point blank period...We in a time where lines that needs new cars the most gonna have to wait longer unfortunitely cause of tech taking over signaling systems....We all know by now the lines that needs new cars...We also should know by now why they not receiving them until the near future...

That’s BS. They can add any CBTC equippment to any NTT stock. 8th Ave does not “need” the R211’s because of CBTC. It can get the R143, R160, or R179.

[biGC323232]

21 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

That’s BS. They can add any CBTC equippment to any NTT stock. 8th Ave does not “need” the R211’s because of CBTC. It can get the R143, R160, or R179.

lol....R143 cant run on the  8 cars only... they already have the 179 just not enough 10 car sets...Whats this big problem u have with the  and  getting them 1st....You making it seem like the  dont have old cars running over there....So who should get them 1st Lawrence st in your opinion....Lines with the oldest cars...Or lines thats getting cbtc being put in????

Edited February 9, 2023 by biGC323232

[U-BahnNYC]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

That’s BS. They can add any CBTC equippment to any NTT stock. 8th Ave does not “need” the R211’s because of CBTC. It can get the R143, R160, or R179.

Dude, what are you on about? The R211s are confirmed to be going to the 8th Avenue  and  lines first and no amount of your mental gymnastics or whining is going to change that fact. Not only do these lines need it for CBTC they also have the worst spare factor and fleet shortage right now. The remainder of the R211 will probably go on lines impacted by CBTC installation, the and on 6th Ave. Whatever is left might go to Queens Blvd.

The  will be the repository of the R46/R68 fleet until they leave the system, simply because they are last for CBTC. 

Stop it with the sneaky "which lines it works on best" - we KNOW the R211s will work best where they are NEEDED - aka 8th Ave, 6th Ave and Queens Blvd. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by U-BahnNYC

[Princelex]

The R211’s are going right where they need to go.  The A & C need these trains and I’m glad they’re getting them. 

[R32 3838]

Some of you guys are really showing your true colors when it come to the R211s going to the and . It's like you guys can't handle the fact that 2 lines that have been screwed for 3 decades by getting leftovers is getting hundreds of fresh new subway cars on top of getting it's signals upgraded. 

Y'all sound over entitled and salty that now the and will get leftovers now. BMT south isn't getting CBTC anytime soon. The majority of the IND is which means lines like the   need to be 100% tech trains. The and is better off getting new cars because besides the R179s which is a small amount due to the fact that it had the oldest subway cars (R32s for 2 decades) and the fact that the R46s are the majority of the line fleet. CIY has the R46s,R68 and R68As. When Concourse gets tech trains, Those R68s will go to coney. Coney will get tech trains for the .

 

So regardless of how y'all feel, The and will still be dominated by R68s during the peak hours. Also the Spare factor for R68s would grow due to the additional option order II R211s.

 

Also It wouldn't make no damn sense to give the leftover R160s. The on the other hand is a grey area.

 

 

[Lawrence St]

I love how everyone assumes I’m whining based on personal opinion that I don’t like R211’s going on the .

Im going to make it clear, I do not care where the R211 goes from a fans point of view. Period.

[RandomRider0101]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

That’s BS. They can add any CBTC equippment to any NTT stock. 8th Ave does not “need” the R211’s because of CBTC. It can get the R143, R160, or R179.

The R143? Lol.

I guess you forgot that the is planned to be 100% full length. Those 212 R143s will more than likely spend their entire service lives in EAST NY yard.

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by RandomRider0101
Not sure if the static maps matter that much.

[Kamen Rider]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Your telling me all 1,000 cars are for 8th Ave?

I understand the point your making but that has nothing to do with what I said for the test train.

And why you say? Let’s see, Broadway is one of the busiest lines in the system in which the R211T would benefit. Or it could be Queens Blvd. Or CPW. Point is, it’s to see where the train can handle better for the eventual placement when the entire order is delivered. 
 

And no it wouldn’t, have two crews qualified to operate the train on each line. They’ve done it before to do clearance testing they can do it again.

 

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

That’s BS. They can add any CBTC equippment to any NTT stock. 8th Ave does not “need” the R211’s because of CBTC. It can get the R143, R160, or R179.

And once again my little employee butt is ignored because some people seem to think they know better than me... seriously, when do I get that little profile badge next to my PFP...?

What I said was "to expand CBTC capacity to allow for the 8th avenue CBTC install".

What that means is ALL the trains that run on the A,B,C and D need to be CBTC compatible. as of the current information I have on hand, there are roughly 87 non CBTC compliant trains running on those four routes in the AM rush. add the Rockaway Park Shuttle, since it draws from the same fleet, we're into 89-ish. THEN add spare factor, and we're getting quite close to 100 trains. 100 trains, times 10 cars, is 1000, obviously... 

 

As for Broadway, it is busy... yes... but Broadway ISN'T getting CBTC any time soon. It will be getting the R68/As. There is no point in seeing where the 211s operate "better", it will be sent to operate WHERE IT IS NEEDED, which is on lines with CBTC territory. Yes, some 211s could be sent to Queens Blvd in the future, but that is not where they're going NOW. 

 

Now... you seem to be mistaking just driving the train around with the clearance testing with actually operating the train in service.

Just two crews? First off, what happens when one crew member has to call out sick.

And secondly, we don't spend all day on the same trains.

You would need to have at least THREE qualified crews on hand at all times the train is operating. One at each terminal and one actually on the train. 

that assumes the trains end up at the correct terminals every time. I've been rerouted before. I've been sent to other terminals and have had to work my way back. I've had trips dropped. I once worked a W sent up Second Avenue because of a very large gap in Q service. I've been turned for service in the opposite direction mid trip because something has gone wrong. 

 

What I'm trying to say here is there is a logistical complexity to this that you don't seem to grasp..

[Lawrence St]

27 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

 

And once again my little employee butt is ignored because some people seem to think they know better than me... seriously, when do I get that little profile badge next to my PFP...?

What I said was "to expand CBTC capacity to allow for the 8th avenue CBTC install".

What that means is ALL the trains that run on the A,B,C and D need to be CBTC compatible. as of the current information I have on hand, there are roughly 87 non CBTC compliant trains running on those four routes in the AM rush. add the Rockaway Park Shuttle, since it draws from the same fleet, we're into 89-ish. THEN add spare factor, and we're getting quite close to 100 trains. 100 trains, times 10 cars, is 1000, obviously... 

 

As for Broadway, it is busy... yes... but Broadway ISN'T getting CBTC any time soon. It will be getting the R68/As. There is no point in seeing where the 211s operate "better", it will be sent to operate WHERE IT IS NEEDED, which is on lines with CBTC territory. Yes, some 211s could be sent to Queens Blvd in the future, but that is not where they're going NOW. 

 

Now... you seem to be mistaking just driving the train around with the clearance testing with actually operating the train in service.

Just two crews? First off, what happens when one crew member has to call out sick.

And secondly, we don't spend all day on the same trains.

You would need to have at least THREE qualified crews on hand at all times the train is operating. One at each terminal and one actually on the train. 

that assumes the trains end up at the correct terminals every time. I've been rerouted before. I've been sent to other terminals and have had to work my way back. I've had trips dropped. I once worked a W sent up Second Avenue because of a very large gap in Q service. I've been turned for service in the opposite direction mid trip because something has gone wrong. 

 

What I'm trying to say here is there is a logistical complexity to this that you don't seem to grasp..

I never said I ignored you because I knew better. I was saying what I said for logistical reasons.

 

42 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

The R143? Lol.

I guess you forgot that the is planned to be 100% full length. Those 212 R143s will more than likely spend their entire service lives in EAST NY yard.

 

Who said they won’t reconfigure most of not all the R143’s into 10 car sets for eventual transfer out of the eastern divison?

[RandomRider0101]

12 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I never said I ignored you because I knew better. I was saying what I said for logistical reasons.

 

Who said they won’t reconfigure most of not all the R143’s into 10 car sets for eventual transfer out of the eastern divison?

I'm not sure how likely that is to happen.

[Jemorie]

The sole reason why the IND is getting new equipment is because the IND has the oldest signals in the system dating back to the 1930s and 1940s that are going to be replaced with CBTC anyway. Same happened with the BMT Canarise Line. Same happened with the IRT Flushing Line. The remainder of the BMT and IRT will be the last to receive CBTC years later. The mainline BMT and mainline IRT already received new signals just a couple years before Canarsie and Flushing did. The only difference is that they aren't CBTC, but rather regular wayside instead.

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, RandomRider0101 said:

I'm not sure how likely that is to happen.

The  is full of politics, I wouldn’t be surprised if by 2024 people want the “new shiny subway cars” on the  and relocate the R143’s elsewhere.

[LGA Link N Train]

14 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

Crew qualification needs means that’s difficult if not impossible, unless you have a small handful of crews who jump from line to line with the trains for the first few months until enough crews are ready.

 

10 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

How does it serve no purpose? If it shows that it works better on the  then the  as the original idea, that would benefit the system, not throw it into chaos.

Wouldn’t a Job Pick amongst Train Operators and Conductors solve this issue for qualification? Just have a job pick when the time arises and call it a day. 
 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

That’s BS. They can add any CBTC equippment to any NTT stock. 8th Ave does not “need” the R211’s because of CBTC. It can get the R143, R160, or R179.

While (most) 160’s and 179’s are compatible with 8th Avenue CBTC, the 143’s aren’t compatible with other CBTC systems outside Canarsie. 
 

211’s are built for the sole purpose of getting 8th Avenue CBTC Online, so IDK where you’re going with this?

[Lawrence St]

10 minutes ago, LGA Link N Train said:

 

Wouldn’t a Job Pick amongst Train Operators and Conductors solve this issue for qualification? Just have a job pick when the time arises and call it a day. 
 

 

 

 

While (most) 160’s and 179’s are compatible with 8th Avenue CBTC, the 143’s aren’t compatible with other CBTC systems outside Canarsie. 
 

211’s are built for the sole purpose of getting 8th Avenue CBTC Online, so IDK where you’re going with this?

Aren’t the R211’s being built to replace the R46’s and remaining R44’s?

[RandomRider0101]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

The  is full of politics, I wouldn’t be surprised if by 2024 people want the “new shiny subway cars” on the  and relocate the R143’s elsewhere.

It would be very interesting if they really did that.

[Kamen Rider]

the next B division job pick won't take effect until, like, june. So before anything else that would not solve the problem in and of itself. 

[FLX9304]

7 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

That’s BS. They can add any CBTC equippment to any NTT stock. 8th Ave does not “need” the R211’s because of CBTC. It can get the R143, R160, or R179.

Really? Who says?