R211 Discussion Thread

[djtoro7]

3 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

The thing about feeling a difference for someone like me, it depends more on my partner’s operating skills and quirks.

had a guy the other day doing 50 into Utica, a known fast station, yet still brought the train to a perfect stop.

I wish every T.O. would operate like that. I kid you not, one time I was running errands around the Columbus Circle area and took the Delta back home to Brooklyn. It was the most smoothest ride I ever had on a SMEE. I almost thought I was riding a CBTC line. Not a lot of T.O. know how to maneuver the R68/R68A fleet.

[trainfan22]

42 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

a time when almost all SMEEs (except the redbirds) were in excellent shape

The Redbirds (the R36s to be specific) had the highest MDBF in 1999. 

[subwaycommuter1983]

8 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

The Redbirds (the R36s to be specific) had the highest MDBF in 1999. 

I rode the red birds that ran on the #2 train. They were terrible. No AC, the lights were always flickering and water was leaking whenever it was raining. I was so glad when they got replaced by the r142's. 

[trainfan22]

I'm surprised at the line crews not wanting to qualify on the 211s considering the R179s already run on that line. But if the cameras are the reason, then shrugs.

 

 

I remember reading on one of these railfan forums back then that crews didn't want to qualify on the R160s when new cause of the black boxes on those cars. Eventually those trains got put into service, the old stuff retired and life went on..

[Bill from Maspeth]

On 7/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, R32 3838 said:

did you not read that it was a put in? Its's a train that starts at Euclid and ends at far Rockaway to start the day. It just happened to be signed up as  

 

Jesus Christ, Are you okay or something?

IDK what's wrong with the posters on this site.  They know damn well that the Pitkin Yard put in leaves Euclid Ave.  M-F at the same time to Far Rockaway, technically it is a shuttle since it starts from Euclid, and for one day the crew (maybe both members were extra people) and instead of "A" signs they used "S" signs instead, and they act like the wheel was just reinvented.  Unbelievable!

[Bill from Maspeth]

On 7/6/2023 at 10:30 PM, nightmare402 said:

not really. the C uses R46's too 

What about the train crews?  Couldn't a mistake in stopping at the wrong car marker be very possible from trip to trip if a t/o has an 8 car R179 on one trip and a 10 car R179 on the next trip?

Isn't the probability of not making a mistake be possible if a C train operator had an R179 to always stop at the 8 car marker and having an R46 to stop at the 10 car marker? 

Common sense my friend, logic!  

[Lawrence St]

Can someone explain why the  wasn’t 10 cars to begin with, or shared with the ? 

[Bill from Maspeth]

20 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I always wondered if SEPTA would consider ordering its own version of the R211 with an orange front and seats as the replacement for the B-4 cars. Having rode the subways in Philly many times, including regularly in 1996-98 when I went to college there, it doesn’t seem like there’s anything unique about the Broad Street Line that would prevent NYC B-Division subway stock from running there. They might need a power upgrade on Broad St to accept New Technology trains, like they had to do in the Rockaways in order for R160s, R179s and R211s on the .

Yes. Other than the upcoming Alstom trolleys, the only talk of new SEPTA transit rail equipment I’ve been hearing about are replacements for the M-4 cars. But I for one was surprised to read that that they’re talking about replacing the M-4 cars and not the B-4 cars, even though the M-4 cars are 15 years newer than their Broad St counterparts. I guess the M-4 cars really are that bad.

Yes, there are many, many, many, many........structural flaws with the Market Frankford Fleet.  These will be replaced long before the Broad St. fleet will be replaced.  Recently a defect affecting an inordinate number of cars was detected and something like only 8 trains were able to meet AM rush hour requirements till the entire fleet was inspected.

[MJHmarc]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Can someone explain why the  wasn’t 10 cars to begin with, or shared with the ? 

An earlier post says the storage barn can’t hold a 10 car 60ft train but it can fit an 8 car 60ft until an decision is made by the MTA to extend the barn to hold more which is still up in the air. 

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Can someone explain why the  wasn’t 10 cars to begin with, or shared with the ? 

Cause the MTA didn't order enough 10 car r179's and the C has less ridership than the A. However, ridership is growing on both lines. Therefore, the C will need to go full length.

Unfortunately, were dealing with a transit agency that is stuck in the present.

[CenSin]

2 hours ago, djtoro7 said:

I wish every T.O. would operate like that. I kid you not, one time I was running errands around the Columbus Circle area and took the Delta back home to Brooklyn. It was the most smoothest ride I ever had on a SMEE. I almost thought I was riding a CBTC line. Not a lot of T.O. know how to maneuver the R68/R68A fleet.

This human performance variability is probably the biggest reason for moving to CBTC from a passenger perspective. The average performance drags down what could have been a much faster system. With computers at the control, the variability is down to the environment and the equipment, and the system can operate safely with much tighter margins.

[Jemorie]

1 hour ago, MJHmarc said:

An earlier post says the storage barn can’t hold a 10 car 60ft train but it can fit an 8 car 60ft until an decision is made by the MTA to extend the barn to hold more which is still up in the air. 

The inspection shops inside 207th Street Yard apparently can't.

[Jemorie]

3 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I rode the red birds that ran on the #2 train. They were terrible. No AC, the lights were always flickering and water was leaking whenever it was raining. I was so glad when they got replaced by the r142's. 

I think @trainfan22  meant the Redbirds had the lowest breakdown rates in 1999.

Low MDBFs = high breakdown rates

High MDBFs = low breakdown rates

Edited July 8, 2023 by Jemorie

[trainfan22]

12 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

I think @trainfan22  meant the Redbirds had the lowest breakdown rates in 1999.

Low MDBFs = high breakdown rates

High MDBFs = low breakdown rates

No I meant high MDBF, R36s had an MDBF of 194,000 in 1999, that was the highest MDBF for that year.

[Kamen Rider]

4 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

IDK what's wrong with the posters on this site.  They know damn well that the Pitkin Yard put in leaves Euclid Ave.  M-F at the same time to Far Rockaway, technically it is a shuttle since it starts from Euclid, and for one day the crew (maybe both members were extra people) and instead of "A" signs they used "S" signs instead, and they act like the wheel was just reinvented.  Unbelievable!

I was aboard the train when it came out of the yard and I was the one who opened the doors. One of the train operators, ether the gap to or the assigned one for that trip, set it that way.

the computer plays the shuttle announcement and I just said to myself “Not my circus, not my monkey…” and went and sat down for the ride to Far Rock.

[Jemorie]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

No I meant high MDBF, R36s had an MDBF of 194,000 in 1999, that was the highest MDBF for that year.

Yeah, that’s what I was saying. I understood what you said from the jump.

[1998NewFlyer]

Can we get back to r211 talk the r36s been gone over almost 2 decades 

[Trainmaster5]

4 hours ago, CenSin said:

This human performance variability is probably the biggest reason for moving to CBTC from a passenger perspective. The average performance drags down what could have been a much faster system. With computers at the control, the variability is down to the environment and the equipment, and the system can operate safely with much tighter margins.

You seem to be one of the few people who can get the big picture. Left unsaid is the total automation of the subway system. I remember laughing when someone posted about running more service. Theoretically that might be true but  no one in authority is claiming that. Just my opinion. Carry on.

[Trainmaster5]

16 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

If I say what I am ACTUALLY thinking…

people are actually refusing to get qualified on these trains. It makes running service with them difficult.

some people have said “well, just set them aside till you have enough people”… but that’s not an option.

all that is going to do is prolong the maintenance headache of keeping the R46s running as more and more people stall learning them. It’s giving in to their resistance to change. A LOT of qualified people picked off the A. 
 

folks just need to bite the bullet and learn them. They are not going anywhere.

”you won’t catch me driving that thing…” needs to stop.

Things never change. I watched the same thing happen when the R62 and the R142 classes were introduced to the IRT. Eventually they became accepted by most of the crews. I’m sure that nobody wants to be the Guinea pig /aka / crash test dummy. I was working on the  when the R142a cars were introduced to the  . The radio transmissions between the  crews and local supervisors and those of the RCC in the beginning were enough for crews to transfer to other lines. When the R142 was introduced to the  I told a TSS that the equipment was not up to snuff, IMO, but eventually things would work out. When I made a station stop at the 10 car marker at Morris Park s/b I showed the TSS that TOD showed that it overran the station by 80 feet and that would be recorded in the black box . Eventually the glitches were corrected. I somewhat understand the reluctance of some folks to deal with the new features. I’ve had coworkers who hated R62 and R142a equipment because they were manufactured by Kawasaki. I was always in the Bombardier camp because I was more comfortable in their cars. I was more qualified on the R62 cars than most road crews on the  at the start. I remember the exodus of the senior M/M on the line when the first line pick happened. Eventually things will get better. You learn to adjust. My first road experience was pre- Redbird and I learned to adapt to whatever was assigned to me. To my crew it’s R46, R60s, and NTT. Once you learn the differences between NTT i assume it wouldn’t be a major problem. As far as the camera goes just look at the LIRR. My take. Carry on and be safe out there.

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, 1998NewFlyer said:

Can we get back to r211 talk the r36s been gone over almost 2 decades 

The reason I initially brought up the red birds is because it seems that some of the train crews that operate the A line may be stuck in the 90's. If those particular train crews are having issues with the r211's, then they should be operating the NQW, which are going to be stuck with SMEEs for the next 7 years.

As for the cameras, it is normal in any workplace to be surrounded by cameras. If staff don't have anything to hide and is doing his/her job, then he/she shouldn't be worried about being monitored via camera.

 

[Lex]

On 7/8/2023 at 4:47 AM, Kamen Rider said:

If I say what I am ACTUALLY thinking…

people are actually refusing to get qualified on these trains. It makes running service with them difficult.

some people have said “well, just set them aside till you have enough people”… but that’s not an option.

all that is going to do is prolong the maintenance headache of keeping the R46s running as more and more people stall learning them. It’s giving in to their resistance to change. A LOT of qualified people picked off the A. 
 

folks just need to bite the bullet and learn them. They are not going anywhere.

”you won’t catch me driving that thing…” needs to stop.

That's a level of NIMBYism I wasn't expecting to see.

It certainly doesn't instill confidence in continuing to use human labor in revenue subway operations...

[Lex]

10 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The reason I initially brought up the red birds is because it seems that some of the train crews that operate the A line may be stuck in the 90's. If those particular train crews are having issues with the r211's, then they should be operating the NQW, which are going to be stuck with SMEEs for the next 7 years.

As for the cameras, it is normal in any workplace to be surrounded by cameras. If staff don't have anything to hide and is doing his/her job, then he/she shouldn't be worried about being monitored via camera.

 

"Their" and "they" would work just fine.

I imagine the cameras are meant for seeing if unauthorized people enter the cabs, particularly if said unauthorized people try to grab the controls.

[Chris89292]

25 minutes ago, Lex said:

"Their" and "they" would work just fine.

I imagine the cameras are meant for seeing if unauthorized people enter the cabs, particularly if said unauthorized people try to grab the controls.

Not that deep, we understand the topic

[AZthefoamer]

I guess operators are afraid of the cameras micromanaging them, and many passengers feel the same way but MTA has bigger issues.

The cameras definitely are a good idea, someone broke into a cab yesterday and said some questionable things over the intercom.

[Kamen Rider]

the thought of micromanagement does kind of weigh on everyone, even me, but I also understand they are there for my safety as much as everything else. 

People said the same things about the first-generation NTT cars and their black boxes. I've already been through something that lead to my train needing to be pulled in for download. Had an F job a few weeks ago where we hit an abandoned portable trip device, with no light or cord. 

 

If someone tries to attack me... which has also already happened... more than once... they'll be on camera. The forward-facing camera could have even made my partner's innocence in the portable trip issue even more obvious, since the tunnel was too dark to see the trip.