The Official Systematic Merger: NYCT/MTA Bus

[Q43 Floral Park]

Would KB even have space for BxMs?

 

If there was a full multi-route swap with YON sure.... 

 

VG8 is gonna kill me for this but I'd run the Yonkers express routes out of Kingsbridge

*braces for downvote*

 

 I doubt you'll get one but, Can you explain what's gained from this?  

 

As a rider of routes from both depots, I guess I'm seeing more cons than pros.  ex: When the Artics can't be used (bad winter weather), its going to come down to do we send an MCI out on a rush hour Bx9 run and cut a BxM run or send it out on the BxM run and have nothing for local service.  I'm also under the impression YON has extra space (back in the day they had ~105 Classics) and KB has no space (parking on the street). 

[Around the Horn]

If there was a full multi-route swap with YON sure.... 

 

 

 I doubt you'll get one but, Can you explain what's gained from this?  

 

As a rider of routes from both depots, I guess I'm seeing more cons than pros.  ex: When the Artics can't be used (bad winter weather), its going to come down to do we send an MCI out on a rush hour Bx9 run and cut a BxM run or send it out on the BxM run and have nothing for local service.  I'm also under the impression YON has extra space (back in the day they had ~105 Classics) and KB has no space (parking on the street). 

Thats only if Yonkers closes as some suggested it might.

[Q43 Floral Park]

Thats only if Yonkers closes as some suggested it might.

 

In that instance, it wouldn't work. There isn't room for another ~90 buses at KB.

[Future ENY OP]

In that instance, it wouldn't work. There isn't room for another ~90 buses at KB.

 

Some KB routes like the M100 could go to MCH or Manhattanville to make room for the extra ~90 buses.

The current YON routes to move to ECH would require extra deadheading. Especially the BxM1,2,18.

BxM4, and 4A to ECH.

BxM1,2,18 to KCH.

[Fresh Pond]

Some KB routes like the M100 could go to MCH or Manhattanville to make room for the extra ~90 buses.

The current YON routes to move to ECH would require extra deadheading. Especially the BxM1,2,18.

BxM4, and 4A to ECH.

BxM1,2,18 to KCH.

The people who live around Hale would throw a fit if any more buses come to the area. Hale barely works at half capacity now, and that's why the M15 local went elsewhere.

[Future ENY OP]

The people who live around Hale would throw a fit if any more buses come to the area. Hale barely works at half capacity now, and that's why the M15 local went elsewhere.

You know what FP. I didn't really think about that.

Only reason why I stated that is only b/c the M100 Manhattan section is within that area. However, if the M100 could possibly be sent to another Manhattan Division depot and NOT QUILL than it could possibly work. But per say to have the 100 transfer to quill since they have the capacity than its a longer deadhead to the East side.

[Q43 Floral Park]

Some KB routes like the M100 could go to MCH or Manhattanville to make room for the extra ~90 buses.

The current YON routes to move to ECH would require extra deadheading. Especially the BxM1,2,18.

BxM4, and 4A to ECH.

BxM1,2,18 to KCH.

 

Bearing YON closing....

 

 You forgot the Bxm3 (KB) and Bxm11 (ECH). KB would have to lose ~65 buses to gain the MCIs and 4 routes, which about a quarter of the local fleet. That'd be more than just the M100 leaving and my thing is that all of KB's current routes make sense. the Bx1/2/3/10/20/41 can't go anywhere else, the M100 could be run elsewhere but it basically ends at KB, the Bx7 could be split MHV but idk what happens to the runs that end at Isham/218 St and I can easily see Riverdale complaining,  the Bx15 being split was the trade off of the Bx55 being canned and I don't think WF could handle the 15 solo or split the Bx9 as is. The only other route that can get tossed out is the Bx18 and thats all of ~6-8 buses. 

 

If YON has to close, I'd leave KB out of any Bx moves besides sending the Bx32 back over there 

[DaTransitMan4608]

If KB were to give up routes, they should just give the Bx9 & Bx41 SBS to GH. I'd say give the 9 to WF, but knowing them you'd see CNGs on there more than they should be.

 

I'd say give the M100 to TA but they may not have any buses available for it since they have the M15, M86SBS, and M101/2/3 to deal with.

 

 

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[JubaionBx12+SBS]

If KB were to give up routes, they should just give the Bx9 & Bx41 SBS to GH. I'd say give the 9 to WF, but knowing them you'd see CNGs on there more than they should be.

 

I'd say give the M100 to TA but they may not have any buses available for it since they have the M15, M86SBS, and M101/2/3 to deal with.

 

 

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And GH would have 40 footers popping up on the Bx9 out of nowhere while on the Bx5 it's all artics.

[DaTransitMan4608]

And GH would have 40 footers popping up on the Bx9 out of nowhere while on the Bx5 it's all artics.

At first I was gonna suggest giving the 9 to WF, but they would treat it like the 36 and seldom put artics on it.

[Cait Sith]

If KB were to give up routes, they should just give the Bx9 & Bx41 SBS to GH. I'd say give the 9 to WF, but knowing them you'd see CNGs on there more than they should be.

 

I'd say give the M100 to TA but they may not have any buses available for it since they have the M15, M86SBS, and M101/2/3 to deal with.

 

 

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Won't necessarily work. Most Bx9 runs end at Riverdale, so the deadhead from there and/or Marble Hill would be....really long to GH. West Farms also does not have the capacity to store more artics.

 

The Bx41....eh, it's better off at KB. I agree with Q43 Floral Park, KB should be left out of any routes being removed.

 

If ECH were to get the majority of Yonkers express routes and if Gun Hill were to get a route or two, I'd honestly have the BxM8 and maybe the BxM10 shifted over to Gun Hill. If ECH gets loaded with too many routes and buses, their maintenance would go down. The last thing we want is the Pre-2009 Staten Island effect again.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Cait Sith

[East New York]

At first I was gonna suggest giving the 9 to WF, but they would treat it like the 36 and seldom put artics on it.

 

 

Won't necessarily work. Most Bx9 runs end at Riverdale, so the deadhead from there and/or Marble Hill would be....really long to GH. West Farms also does not have the capacity to store more artics.

 

The Bx41....eh, it's better off at KB. I agree with Q43 Floral Park, KB should be left out of any routes being removed.

 

If ECH were to get the majority of Yonkers express routes and if Gun Hill were to get a route or two, I'd honestly have the BxM8 and maybe the BxM10 shifted over to Gun Hill. If ECH gets loaded with too many routes and buses, their maintenance would go down. The last thing we want is the Pre-2009 Staten Island effect again.

 

When the XN60's come in, the Bx36 is going to be converted to an articulated route. A nice chunk of the artics are replacing the second batch of OG CNG's.

[BreeddekalbL]

The only depot I can see closing while the merger happens is Yonkers, which I hear should have closed LONG AGO.

 

 

What has been stopping them from doing that? I heard all their routes would be shifted to ECH and both the Bx23 and Q50 will be based out of CP like the QBX1 was.

I wonder what was behind moving the QM4 to BP all about. There had to be a good reason for it.

 

weren't they gonna close the depot for the sake of developers?

[East New York]

Even if they shifted all the routes from YO to EC, they still don't need to send all of the Bx23 or Q50 back to CP. EC can handle all of that.

 

Moving the QM4 was actually a really good idea. One, the deadhead to BP isn't bad at all, and this way because of the way BP runs are set up, most all the QM operators are on local runs outside of rush. So they pull in with an express bus, then pull out with a local bus. It increases the reliability of the route a bit, and it takes a bit of strain off CP. 

 

There are actually only 4 straight runs on the QM4. All the rest of them interestingly enough are "driver-run interlined" with all the BP local routes.

[Around the Horn]

Moving the QM4 was actually a really good idea. One, the deadhead to BP isn't bad at all, and this way because of the way BP runs are set up, most all the QM operators are on local runs outside of rush. So they pull in with an express bus, then pull out with a local bus. It increases the reliability of the route a bit, and it takes a bit of strain off CP.

Maybe with the merger coming, they can teach Staten Island a little bit.

[East New York]

Maybe with the merger coming, they can teach Staten Island a little seehac bit.

Staten Island is a whole different animal. They have 10 times more express routes, 100 times more runs, and their mileage between terminals is much higher. This wouldn't work quite so well on the island. This is why many of their runs layover at Quill.

 

You also have to remember that all Bus Company runs are now NYCT standard. None of the runs are structured the way they used to be with the private lines. So it's really the other way around. Transit taught Bus Co. A thing or two when it comes to run layouts. Also remember that every depot is unique. Spring Creek for example in the evening rush can have a driver deadhead from the depot to Manhattan for a run. Deadhead back to Manhattan again for the next run, and do it again. This doesn't work so well in other places. At BP, the driver-run interlines work well because of the demand that they have for the express routes and the fact that off-peak the frequencies are not as great as they are in Staten Island.

[East New York]

In the early hours of yesterday morning, TWU 100 reached a tentative agreement with TA, OA, and BC. The new contract is set to expire in May of 2019. It's now up the the executive board to approve the contact settlement. If it goes through, NYCTA, MaBSTOA, and Bus Company will have a unified contract, which will bring us one step closer to an official merger of the systems.

 

At this time, everything is on schedule for the new Bus Command center at East New York to come online next year alongside a new fare payment system, and new standard radio system that will be commmon across both TA and BC divisions, effectively completing the systematic merger of the divisions.

Edited January 17, 2017 by East New York

[Gotham Bus Co.]

 Transit taught Bus Co. A thing or two when it comes to run layouts. 

 

Maybe Bus Company hired some people from Transit.

[East New York]

They actually did! However transit is still in charge and Bus company operates just as OA did in the 40's.

[limitednyc]

They actually did! However transit is still in charge and Bus company operates just as OA did in the 40's.

what do u mean by bc operating like to oa in the 40s.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

They actually did! However transit is still in charge and Bus company operates just as OA did in the 40's.

 

MaBSTOA was created in 1962 out of the ashes of Fifth Avenue Coach. 

[East New York]

I meant 60's so thank for the correction. As operating, I mean it's still a separate entity, but it's now operating under the NYC Bus Brand. When OA was created all the buses had MaBSTOA titles. When they were integrated they dropped the OA for NYC bus on all vehicles, similar to how all new buses will no longer read MTA Bus, or NYC bus for a common standard livery.

[Around the Horn]

I meant 60's so thank for the correction. As operating, I mean it's still a separate entity, but it's now operating under the NYC Bus Brand. When OA was created all the buses had MaBSTOA titles. When they were integrated they dropped the OA for NYC bus on all vehicles, similar to how all new buses will no longer read MTA Bus, or NYC bus for a common standard livery.

 

So will we see MTA Bus repaints in the "old scheme" get New York City Bus on the sides?

[LTA1992]

So will we see MTA Bus repaints in the "old scheme" get New York City Bus on the sides?

From what it sounds like, it will just be the MTA logo. No other branding than that.

[FLX9304]

This was a bit different, however it's one of my favorite transit history stories. By 1930 NSB was the dominate provider of bus service in Queens as they switched over from Trolly cars. Shortly there after, they sold off a few routes to other private companies due to monetary issues after the Great Depression. By 1946 they again were the top operator in Queens, with Triboro Coach being #2.

 

In 1947, NBS bus operators, and other company employees went on strike which caused the company to go bankrupt. Because they were the largest operator and had such a vast network, the City asked the MTA to take over the operations.

 

Because the company was bankrupt, and was going to shutter operations as a legal entity, It is much different than the MTAB mergers, and even though it is still quite different, more resembles the MaBSTOA merger.

 

NYCTA absorbed the operation and was under no legal obligation to run it in any specific way. This was the Birth of NYCTA Queens Division, and the facilities would become the Jamaica Depot, which is the oldest "technical" bus depot in North America, and what is now the Casey Stengel Depot. For purposes of age, the East New York depot is actually the oldest, but it was a BMT car barn at first, and later on in the years they begin to house buses there as operations expanded.

North Shore Bus Routes prior to the creation of NYCTA Queens Division

• Q1: Jamaica – Hillside Avenue – short lines (from Bee Line)
• Q2: Jamaica – Hollis Avenue – Hempstead Avenue to Belmont Park (from Bee Line)
• Q3: Jamaica – Hollis – JFK airport via Farmers Blvd. (from Bee Line)
• Q3A: Jamaica (Parsons Blvd. & Hillside Av.) – St. Albans – Cambria Heights via Murdoch & 113 Av. (renumbered 1988 to Q83 by MTA), (from Bee Line)
• Q4: Jamaica – Cambria Heights via Merrick & Linden Blvds. (from Bee Line)
• Q4A: Jamaica – Laurelton via Merrick Blvd. & 120 Ave. (renumbered 1988 to Q84 by MTA) (from Bee Line)
• Q5: Jamaica – Rosedale & Green Acres Shopping Mall via Merrick Blvd. (from Bee Line)
• Q5A: Jamaica – Rosedale via Rochdale Village and Bedell Street. (renumbered 1988 to Q85 by MTA), (from Bee Line)
• Q5AB: Jamaica – Locust Manor LIRR – Springfield Gardens (combined with Q5A and also renumbered 1988 to Q85 by MTA) (from Bee Line)
• Q5AS: Laurelton – Rosedale Shuttle (renumbered 1988 to Q86 by MTA Bus, then eliminated in 1995 due to low ridership), (from Bee Line)
• Q12: Flushing – Little Neck via Sanford Av. & Northern Blvd.
• Q12A: Little Neck LIRR Station – Floral Park via Little Neck Parkway (renumbered to Q79 by MTA, then eliminated due to low ridership and reinstated via compromise as part of the extended Q36 in 2013)
• Q13: Flushing – Bayside – Fort Totten via Northern & Bell Blvds. (1933)
• Q14: Flushing – Whitestone (1933) (eliminated in 2010 due to low ridership)
• Q15: Flushing – Whitestone – Beechhurst (1933)
• Q16: Flushing – Clearview – Fort Totten via Bayside Avenue, Francis Lewis & Willets Point Blvds. or Utopia Pkwy. (1933)
• Q17: Flushing – 188 Street & Jamaica
• Q17A: Jamaica – Little Neck via Utopia Pkwy & Horace Harding Blvd. (renumbered 1988 to Q30 by MTA)
• Q23: 108th Street, Corona-Ditmars Avenue (before 1933); originally North Shore, transferred first to Kings Coach Company (1931), then to Triboro Coach Corp. in 1936, then to MTA Bus in 2005
• Q26: Flushing – Auburndale via Hollis Court Blvd.
• Q27: Flushing – Rosewood – Queens Village & Cambria Heights via Springfield Blvd.
• Q28: Flushing – Bayside West (before 1933)
• Q31: Jamaica – Bayside West
• Q36: Jamaica – Floral Park via Hillside & Jamaica Avenues.
• Q42: Jamaica – Addisleigh Park via Sayres Av.
• Q43: Jamaica LIRR Station – Hillside Av. to City Line.
• Q44: Jamaica – Bronx.
• Q44A: Union Turnpike – Kew Gardens – Lake Success & Glen Oaks (renumbered 1990 to Q46 by MTA)
• Q44B: Malba Shuttle (eliminated 1990 due to low ridership)
• Q44FS: Flushing – College Point Shuttle (renumbered 1990 to Q20, then in 1998 to Q20A & Q20B by MTA, and extended to Jamaica)
• Q44VP: Union Turnpike – Kew Gardens & Vleigh Place Shuttle (renumbered 1990 to Q74 by MTA, then eliminated in 2010 due to low ridership)
• Q48: Flushing – LaGuardia Airport began operating April 5, 1940 as one of the first routes developed for Queens under the MTA's watch.

Q14 was merged in 2010 as Q15A.

As for Q48, MTA did not existed in 1940 (it came to be in 1968) This was under CNYBOT (City of New York Board of Transportation)

 

 

 

 

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So will we see MTA Bus repaints in the "old scheme" get New York City Bus on the sides?

No, just the logo with an "I❤️NY" logo in the middle of the bus. So far, new buses are in the new Blue Yellow scheme, no more blue stripes

 

 

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