Fix & Fortify - 14th Street (L Train) Tunnels Closure

[Lex]

8 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Actually I had suggested earlier a switch east of 1 Av...

Slopes...

8 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

the  to 96 St would not have been needed in this case

At present, the  is scheduled to run every 4-6 minutes on weekends. Cutting it back to 6 trains per hour (10-minute intervals) with single-tracking won't be enough, especially if when something craps out along the only available track. At least the full shutdown left the door open for consistent 6-minute intervals on a daily basis with little trouble.

[darkstar8983]

2 hours ago, Lex said:

Slopes...

At present, the  is scheduled to run every 4-6 minutes on weekends. Cutting it back to 6 trains per hour (10-minute intervals) with single-tracking won't be enough, especially if when something craps out along the only available track. At least the full shutdown left the door open for consistent 6-minute intervals on a daily basis with little trouble.

Service craps out and is suspended even when two tracks are in service and service COULD have been rerouted to the remaining track when one has a blockage.

[RR503]

44 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

Service craps out and is suspended even when two tracks are in service and service COULD have been rerouted to the remaining track when one has a blockage.

Single track ops through Canarsie are bad from a customer perspective — ridiculous waits, extreme crowding, longer project timeline and less attention to alternatives all cause massive negative rider-minute impacts — and from an ops perspective — an outage in the tube kills 100%, rather than 50% of your capacity, and running this whole thing in a way that’s even mildly functional requires a level of operational discipline that the MTA has, in past overnight (ie w/o crowd stress) shutdowns, demonstrated itself as not having. This is going to be a shitshow motivated only by a want to appease our dear Governor’s ‘vision’ for the shutdown. 

[Lance]

You can't really call it appeasement when Cuomo essentially told the MTA to do it his way and if they didn't like it, they could go and kick rocks. Quite frankly, this potential disaster cannot really be pinned on the MTA since their original plan was, for it's many flaws, a much better one than the one we have presently. The agency's hand were tied from the moment Cuomo swooped in and saved the day.

I just hope that off-hours riders do seriously consider the alternatives and avoid the western end of the line at all costs. Otherwise, Bedford Av will make Court Sq-23 St look like a cakewalk in comparison. I also don't want to see this turn into Sea Beach part deux where we're taking bets to which one finishes first, Canarsie or ESA.

[RR503]

2 hours ago, Lance said:

You can't really call it appeasement when Cuomo essentially told the MTA to do it his way and if they didn't like it, they could go and kick rocks. Quite frankly, this potential disaster cannot really be pinned on the MTA since their original plan was, for it's many flaws, a much better one than the one we have presently. The agency's hand were tied from the moment Cuomo swooped in and saved the day.

I just hope that off-hours riders do seriously consider the alternatives and avoid the western end of the line at all costs. Otherwise, Bedford Av will make Court Sq-23 St look like a cakewalk in comparison. I also don't want to see this turn into Sea Beach part deux where we're taking bets to which one finishes first, Canarsie or ESA.

Yes, appease was the wrong word. Fulfill. 

This issue -- as is true with many others -- really comes back to the MTA's credibility gap. After a decade or so of constant incompetence, pretty much no one trusts them, so the governor can pull crap like this relatively easily. Same is true w/ UWB and the like. 

[Caelestor]

Just shut down the  on weekends west of Bedford Ave and run the rest of the line on 6 minute headways. Almost no one is going to wait around for a 3 tph service.

While not ideal the  +  + M14 SBS should be able to handle the weekend traffic.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

That would make far more sense. But Dictator Cuomo wants 24/7 service between Brooklyn and Manhattan, no matter how shitty/inconvenient it will be.

[Lex]

3 hours ago, Caelestor said:

Just shut down the  on weekends west of Bedford Ave and run the rest of the line on 6 minute headways.

Fixed.

[Bay Ridge Express]

6 minutes ago, Lex said:

Just shut down the on weekends west of Bedford Ave and run the rest of the line on 6 minute headways. 

translates to

3 hours ago, Caelestor said:

Just shut down the

 

[MysteriousBtrain]

trains are already f**king up.

-the 8 Av trains show up on bus time as 6 Av bound trains

-it takes at least 10 minutes to go from Bedford Avenue to 1 Av

-all trains to/from Manhattan are sardined

-some s are being held in stations or delayed

-B91/92 are running light at the moment.

[paulrivera]

Dear  train riders:

Welcome to our world.

Sincerely,

Jerome Avenue and Dyre Avenue line riders

[SubwayFan3000]

On 3/4/2019 at 3:54 PM, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Cuomo considering president?! Jesus Christ this nightmare only gets worse.

Cuomo is a Ableist POS!

[Lex]

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

trains are already f**king up.

-the 8 Av trains show up on bus time as 6 Av bound trains

-it takes at least 10 minutes to go from Bedford Avenue to 1 Av

-all trains to/from Manhattan are sardined

-some s are being held in stations or delayed

-B91/92 are running light at the moment.

But this is somehow better than what the MTA planned...

[SubwayFan3000]

I haven't took the Train for 15 years

[VIP]

This is what happens when “white privilege” fails... 

[MysteriousBtrain]

2 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

trains are already f**king up.

-the 8 Av trains show up on subway time as 6 Av bound trains

-it takes at least 10 minutes to go from Bedford Avenue to 1 Av

-all trains to/from Manhattan are sardined

-some s are being held in stations or delayed

-B91/92 are running light at the moment.

I'm so used to bus time I didn't even realize this typo.

 

Also Byford was around union square today helping with the crowds there.

[Wallyhorse]

On 4/25/2019 at 12:47 PM, Lance said:

You can't really call it appeasement when Cuomo essentially told the MTA to do it his way and if they didn't like it, they could go and kick rocks. Quite frankly, this potential disaster cannot really be pinned on the MTA since their original plan was, for it's many flaws, a much better one than the one we have presently. The agency's hand were tied from the moment Cuomo swooped in and saved the day.

I just hope that off-hours riders do seriously consider the alternatives and avoid the western end of the line at all costs. Otherwise, Bedford Av will make Court Sq-23 St look like a cakewalk in comparison. I also don't want to see this turn into Sea Beach part deux where we're taking bets to which one finishes first, Canarsie or ESA.

And Cuomo did that in the eyes of some by orders of DONORS.  If the MTA does run into a problem, Cuomo if so can simply cite he "was being told to by people very important"  to do that and defer blame.

[Lex]

26 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

And Cuomo did that in the eyes of some by orders of DONORS.  If the MTA does run into a problem, Cuomo if so can simply cite he "was being told to by people very important"  to do that and defer blame.

That must mean you have yet to see it.

[paulrivera]

5 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

And Cuomo did that in the eyes of some by orders of DONORS.  If the MTA does run into a problem, Cuomo if so can simply cite he "was being told to by people very important"  to do that and defer blame.

I hope all that fundraising he’s doing to be Biden’s running mate will be well worth it. Hopefully people vote for Biden-Cuomo 2020, Andy Byford hangs on to at least 1/20/2021, and pray that Governor Hochul will have a better business relationship with  leaders. And also hope this  project isn’t a lemon.

[Lance]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 2:51 PM, RR503 said:

Yes, appease was the wrong word. Fulfill. 

This issue -- as is true with many others -- really comes back to the MTA's credibility gap. After a decade or so of constant incompetence, pretty much no one trusts them, so the governor can pull crap like this relatively easily. Same is true w/ UWB and the like. 

That is true unfortunately and the agency seems uninterested in changing the narrative. Even when they have able and extremely competent people working under their umbrella, they are overshadowed by the higher ups who either have no clue what's going on or are actively trying to avoid doing something to fix the situation.

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 4:10 PM, Caelestor said:

Just shut down the  on weekends west of Bedford Ave and run the rest of the line on 6 minute headways. Almost no one is going to wait around for a 3 tph service.

While not ideal the  +  + M14 SBS should be able to handle the weekend traffic.

I think we're all in agreement on this one. But that ain't an option. Even if this proves to be a disaster, which I'm currently withholding judgment on for the moment, the MTA will continue to try this method because his majesty has commanded it.

4 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

And Cuomo did that in the eyes of some by orders of DONORS.  If the MTA does run into a problem, Cuomo if so can simply cite he "was being told to by people very important"  to do that and defer blame.

I don't know why I'm entertaining this, but I am. Maybe it's my masochistic tendencies at work here.

I just want you to think about that sentence you typed for a minute and consider it as it would apply to the president (not the current one mind you) regarding some other major situation. "Well, these guys told me to do it this way" won't fly and rarely leads to anything good.

Shifting gears, since everyone here knows that I'm the map guy, it should come as no surprise I've made some updates to my version of the subway line maps to reflect the changes in service related to the Project. There are also minor updates to both Vignelli-inspired maps, the normal service one and the late night version.

[Far rockaway]

 trains are messed up right now according to mta Twitter. 20 minutes waits for trains in both directions due to a train having door problems earlier and planned work in brooklyn.

[Calvin]

Media mentioned that it'll be up to 40 minutes from Union Sq to Bedford Av (that includes trains being held to let one pass through)

Edited April 27, 2019 by Calvin

[MysteriousBtrain]

3 hours ago, Calvin said:

Media mentioned that it'll be up to 40 minutes from Union Sq to Bedford Av (that includes trains being held to let one pass through)

Looks like the 20 minute headways that we thought was crap actually is crap. I wonder who could have not seen this coming.....

[Wallyhorse]

3 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Looks like the 20 minute headways that we thought was crap actually is crap. I wonder who could have not seen this coming.....

I think we know one person........

[Wallyhorse]

9 hours ago, Lance said:

That is true unfortunately and the agency seems uninterested in changing the narrative. Even when they have able and extremely competent people working under their umbrella, they are overshadowed by the higher ups who either have no clue what's going on or are actively trying to avoid doing something to fix the situation.

I think we're all in agreement on this one. But that ain't an option. Even if this proves to be a disaster, which I'm currently withholding judgment on for the moment, the MTA will continue to try this method because his majesty has commanded it.

Or in the eyes of some, his donors commanded his majesty to do it or face losing such.