Fix & Fortify - 14th Street (L Train) Tunnels Closure

[GojiMet86]

http://gothamist.com/2019/03/27/mta_l_train_shutdown_review.php

 

Quote

 

MTA Shuts Down Independent Review Of L Train Unshutdown Plan

BY JAKE OFFENHARTZ IN NEWS ON MAR 27, 2019 2:37 PM

With exactly one month to go until the start of the revised L train project, the MTA's leadership is officially reneging on their commitment to allow a third-party monitor to review the scope of the plan and present their findings to the board.

The reversal was confirmed on Wednesday morning by acting MTA Chairman Freddy Ferrer, prior to the board's ratification of a $1.2 million contract with JMT Consulting Group. While the consultant will be tasked with monitoring safety and environmental considerations during the partial shutdown, they will not be assessing the overall feasibility of the project ahead of the April 27th start date—as both Governor Andrew Cuomo and his appointed chairman of the agency had previously indicated.

The authority's backtracking set off alarm bells among board members on Wednesday, some of whom have previously accused the governor of ramming through the surprise intervention and "neutering" oversight. Under the proposal announced by Cuomo earlier this year, the MTA will ditch the full 15-month shutdown of the tunnel, instead pursuing a construction approach that will only require them to close one tube at a time on nights and weekends. The new project, which is estimated to take between 15 and 20 months, has prompted MTA engineers to privately warn of "record on-board crowding," among other safety concerns.

According to some members of the board, the uncertainty about the construction plan, along with the apparent suddenness with which it was chosen, further underscores the need for a third-party monitor to evaluate the pros and cons of the proposal.

"It's a concern to me," board member Andrew Albert told Gothamist following the meeting. "Maybe I missed something, but I could swear the intent of the board was to have the consultant help us select which plan was the best plan."

When he and others expressed those same concerns to Ferrer on Wednesday, the chairman accused the board members of distorting his previous statement, and claimed that "the consultant was never [meant] to come back to the board with a comparison."

That claim would appear to be at odds with Ferrer's own repeated assurances during an emergency board meeting held in the wake of the surprise L train announcement in January. "I have stated a number of times already in this meeting that a third party team will be engaged to report to the board and me, all of us, on what the best path forward is," he said then. "We have to do that relatively quickly...but that's for the board to consider at the appropriate moment when we have those people on board."

Less than two weeks later, Ferrer reiterated this position, assuring board members that they would "participate not only in the selection of [the consultant] but with all of us, hearing from that individual, evaluating information and making choices. Nothing will be done in the dark of night, nothing will be done behind closed doors. Everything will be done out in the open."

Asked about his previous comments on Thursday, Ferrer maintained that he never intended to give the consultant power to review the plan, adding that his words had been taken out of context. A spokesperson for the MTA did not return Gothamist's request for comment.

Additional reporting by Stephen Nessen.

 

 

[R68OnBroadway]

Looks like Prince Andrew sensed that something would contradict his "all-knowing" expertise in handling the MTA's affairs and took action as a result... I expected this to happen.

So obvious this guy is staging himself for 2020. I knew that from when he said he wouldn't run for president during the 2018 governor race he was lying... I knew little Andy C would step in and say "I think I should run for the sake of this country" and then get crushed worse in the primaries than Walter Mondale. Hopefully he will follow his father from then on and get kicked out of office after a third term. 

 

[Wallyhorse]

He's said if Joe Biden doesn't run, he will.  This would be right in line with that.

Cuomo likely thinks (IMO) an shutdown lasting into the 2020 primaries would hurt his chances of winning the primaries in New York and to a lesser extent New Jersey and Connecticut and to a further lesser extent Pennsylvania.  

[Lawrence St]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=webhp&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiMyZKehcfhAhWGdd8KHTztAVUQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amny.com%2Ftransit%2Fl-train-reconstruction-1.29631336&psig=AOvVaw2RwJyRzKZEmVx9Dgy5BYJN&ust=1555037765249394

 

Transit workers are not happy with the way how the train approach is being done. This is going to be an intresting few weeks...

[Wallyhorse]

5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=webhp&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiMyZKehcfhAhWGdd8KHTztAVUQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amny.com%2Ftransit%2Fl-train-reconstruction-1.29631336&psig=AOvVaw2RwJyRzKZEmVx9Dgy5BYJN&ust=1555037765249394

 

Transit workers are not happy with the way how the train approach is being done. This is going to be an intresting few weeks...

Correct link to the article:

https://www.amny.com/transit/l-train-reconstruction-1.29631336

Still think this Cuomo wanting to keep the option of running for President open, especially if Joe Biden does not run. 

[Lawrence St]

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-mta-bench-wall-l-train-shudown-20190410-2ww2xq4fxbgwpmfwdqj65v5uhe-story.html?fbclid=IwAR1oY26He-N99amS01wcyUH4T9WkflSu3v2QDgKZteOCk5cVd4id0d9LU0Y

[Bay Ridge Express]

I found this randomly from the pre-Cuomo initiative

[Lex]

5 hours ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

I found this randomly from the pre-Cuomo initiative

We might as well expect this to actually happen thanks to him and his very qualified group.

[Lance]

I hope not. To pull a Wallyhorse, it wouldn't look good for his presidential run (yeah right) if his brilliant idea blows up in his face.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I can only wonder how he’ll explain it if it does indeed blow up in his face.

[Lance]

The MTA didn't follow the C&C crew's guidelines correctly.

Of course, there'd be more prose and poetic waxing, but that'd be the gist of it.

[Lawrence St]

I strangely feel MTA is going to reconsider their decision...you have workers protesting, people yelling that they let their real estate values drop, etc.

[Lance]

Unlikely. We're stuck with this until a catastrophic failure occurs that is directly related to the changes in the project. Anything beyond that will be seen as unrelated and inconsequential. Nobody's going to risk political suicide in this city by supporting the original plan when the experts came up with something better.

[RR503]

Good news on the bus front! Per AMNY:

Quote

The L train “slowdown” will come with bus priority on 14th Street after all.  

The de Blasio administration will ban private through-traffic on 14th Street between Third and Ninth avenues as part of a new pilot street design to help speed up buses during the L train’s Canarsie tunnel reconstruction, according to a draft release of the plans obtained by amNewYork.

But the changes won’t come until June, more than a month after the subway rehabilitation work begins.

...

 Under the city's plans, the new stretch of 14th Street will consist of four lanes, two in each direction: the center lanes will be dedicated to bus and truck traffic, while the outer curbside lanes will be reserved for truck loading and local traffic looking to make pickups, drop-offs or to access garages along the block.

...

The city also plans to announce that bike infrastructure projects on Manhattan's 12th and 13th streets, as well as Grand Street in Brooklyn, will be made permanent. Grand Street's protected bike lanes will be adjusted to add more loading zones and metered parking, and to “help accommodate the needs of industrial businesses along this section of the corridor,” according to the draft release.

I hope this pilot is successful, and that it sparks larger conversations about our traffic management priorities. Equity and safety concerns aside, the dominance of cars quite literally makes our city less efficient. The famous image:

[trainfan22]

I'm not looking forward to this at all even though I live at the Canarsie end of the line and have plenty of options. Gonna miss my 4 minute headways on weekends  

 

The shuttle train idea is stupid, the  shouldn't run to Manthattan PERIOD on weekends.

 

I'm gonna try out that Willamsburg Link bus, it might be clutch if it isn't packed,  line is chill when it doesn't go to Manhattan but goes all the way to Lormier. 

 

 

Many times I transfer to the  ,  or  lines at Broadway Junction even when the  is running normally, only because I'm a fanner and like taking different routes haha, so other than the longer headways, it won't be THAT much of an inconvenience for me.

 

 

[Around the Horn]

I know full well they're gonna f**k it up somehow...

Me trust the same system that can't make and trains alternate properly during rush hour with turning every other at Lorimer and handling single track ops properly? Uh no.

[Calvin]

The thought: It'll be a long and painful ride going to 8 Av from Bedford Av with the single track operation in slow speeds and huge crowd at each station. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Calvin

[darkstar8983]

I think the real reason the  setup for late nights and weekends is every 20 minutes is to allow the Williamsburg Bridge to be closed overnight should a closure be required for maintenance. That way, overnight shuttle buses could replace the  service between Manhattan and Brooklyn, and allow the  to run its normal overnight service.

 

when the  was split, the manhattan bridge had to be open 24/7, and any little disruption cut service on the broadway line south of 34 St.

 

i bet that a few weeks in, the  hours will be cut back to 11PM and let the  and reduced  handle the crowds. This would allow for Nassau St Line Fastracks and light maintenance work along the  tracks between Marcy Av and West 4 St. Also be ready for the 96 St-2 Av service to start at 9 instead of 10:30PM because of the Queens Blvd GOs.

 

Expected Saturday hours:

6AM to 11:45PM to 96 St

7AM to 12:45AM (Sunday) towards Metro Av

 

expected Sunday hours

8AM to 11PM to 96 St

9AM to 11:59PM to Metro Av

 

weeknight to 96 St hours

(8:30PM - 11PM)

weeknight to Metro Av (from 96 St) hours

(9:30PM to Midnight)

 

 

[darkstar8983]

21 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I know full well they're gonna f**k it up somehow...

Me trust the same system that can't make and trains alternate properly during rush hour with turning every other at Lorimer and handling single track ops properly? Uh no.

The problem with the  is the following

1.  reduced service after SAS opened,

2. Pelham Bay Park needs 12 TPH to maintain some appropriate level of service at the tail end of the line.

3. Limited turning capacity at Parkchester due to 1 track available (typically a single pocket track turns 1 train every ~8 minutes), hence why some PM rush hour local  trains go to Pelham Bay and the rush hour alternating is out of sequence.

[Lex]

5 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

I think the real reason the  setup for late nights and weekends is every 20 minutes is to allow the...

Okay, that's more than enough for me.

Single-tracking -- especially for longer stretches -- decimates capacity, and with the number of trains that will also be serving every Brooklyn station save for Bedford Avenue (because having only half of the weekend trains serving it is somehow smart), cutting the frequency to an abysmal 10 minutes east of Lorimer Street is the easiest way to ensure that merges don't conflict. Not even a switch east of Third Avenue will do much to help.

[darkstar8983]

11 minutes ago, Lex said:

Okay, that's more than enough for me.

Single-tracking -- especially for longer stretches -- decimates capacity, and with the number of trains that will also be serving every Brooklyn station save for Bedford Avenue (because having only half of the weekend trains serving it is somehow smart), cutting the frequency to an abysmal 10 minutes east of Lorimer Street is the easiest way to ensure that merges don't conflict. Not even a switch east of Third Avenue will do much to help.

Actually I had suggested earlier a switch east of 1 Av, and the  could have ran every 10 minutes to 8 Av, and have Bedford Av skipped in both directions to make sure the 10-minute frequency is maintained (and the layover trains could have been used east of Lorimer if really necessary. Otherwise, 10-minute frequency on the entire line, like when the  ran only east of Union Square during weekend GOs)

 

the  to 96 St would not have been needed in this case

Edited April 24, 2019 by darkstar8983

[RR503]

What they really should have done is done a Clark St — full weekend shutdown — and then put the time into making a robust set of alternatives. I’d much rather have a really reliable and comfortable set of slightly slower alternatives than have a once-every-20-mins moonshot at packing myself onto a ridiculously crowded train. This ain’t the way to run a railroad. 

Also, full weekend shut would probably shorten timeline...but alas, ship hath sailed. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by RR503

[MysteriousBtrain]

Just to be clear. ONE ACCIDENT on the in Manhattan on weekends=immediately covered by the news and people will be throwing complaints, especially to the MTA which isn't even 100% their fault*.

 

*Remember the great chairman that make all this possible as well.

[Around the Horn]

22 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Just to be clear. ONE ACCIDENT on the in Manhattan on weekends=immediately covered by the news and people will be throwing complaints

Frankly I think this will be the outcome on the first day

[Lawrence St]

7 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

I know full well they're gonna f**k it up somehow...

Me trust the same system that can't make and trains alternate properly during rush hour with turning every other at Lorimer and handling single track ops properly? Uh no.

ESPECIALLY on a TWO track line.