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Union Tpke

An automated 42nd Street shuttle? There is a study for it as part of the 2015–2019 Capital Program.

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Project: T7041412

Description: Study for 42nd Street Shuttle
Category: Passenger Stations
Element: Passenger Stations
 
This project will conduct a study to develop the requirements for a fully automated 42nd Street Shuttle, operating between Times Square and Grand Central Terminal.

 

 

Do you guys think that this will happen? I think that there would be union pushback against this.

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Project: T7041412

Description: Study for 42nd Street Shuttle
Category: Passenger Stations
Element: Passenger Stations
 
This project will conduct a study to develop the requirements for a fully automated 42nd Street Shuttle, operating between Times Square and Grand Central Terminal.

 

 

Do you guys think that this will happen? I think that there would be union pushback against this.

This was done before in the early 1960's, until the fire at Grand Central ended it in 1964.

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As far as technologically possible, CBTC theoretically provides the bedrock you need for this, and the Shuttle is operationally its own self contained thing, so it's definitely doable; think an airport people mover.

 

As far as how terrible this is, the sun will burn out before the MTA has the money to actually fully automate the rest of the system, so this doesn't really have large implications for staffing. Wasn't there a shuttle T/O or conductor who sued the MTA because the shuttle was so physically demanding to operate (since there isn't really much scope for a break?)

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Project: T7041412

Description: Study for 42nd Street Shuttle
Category: Passenger Stations
Element: Passenger Stations
 
This project will conduct a study to develop the requirements for a fully automated 42nd Street Shuttle, operating between Times Square and Grand Central Terminal.

 

 

Do you guys think that this will happen? I think that there would be union pushback against this.

Where did you find this?

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I understand why they would want to automate the shuttle but at the same time can we at least get perhaps the (G) or (7) and maybe even the (J) automated first?

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The Capital Dashboard. With the lousy layout you can't provide specific links. It is in there though.

 

Where did you find this?

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I understand why they would want to automate the shuttle but at the same time can we at least get perhaps the (G) or (7) and maybe even the (J) automated first?

The shuttle is only one stop over what by the time this is done will be two tracks as the shuttle platforms that will be used at Times Square and Grand Central will be lengthened to accommodate five-car trains.  That means only two small stretches (plus the portion of the rarely-used Track 2) would need to be automated for this.

 

It's a very small stretch that I doubt would be an issue.

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I understand why they would want to automate the shuttle but at the same time can we at least get perhaps the (G) or (7) and maybe even the (J) automated first?

 

 

I would say consider OPTO on (7) first (after CBTC is done), before we move on to fully automated subway

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I would say consider OPTO on (7) first (after CBTC is done), before we move on to fully automated subway

 

lol OPTO wont happen on the (7) it will get the same push back as it did on the (L)

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lol OPTO wont happen on the (7) it will get the same push back as it did on the (L)

 

Which is so incredibly wasteful and stupid. There needs to be more, sustained pressure for OPTO. 

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Which is so incredibly wasteful and stupid. There needs to be more, sustained pressure for OPTO. 

Nope not really. It was done away on those lines due to passenger safety. Tell people stop sticking their hand and feet in closing doors and they won't have to be worried about being dragged to their death. A T/O can't monitor the doors while the train is leaving the station. I would say it isn't wasteful and stupid..... Try running 5 car lengths on those lines with the heavy ridership they have. why do you think the (7) has eleven cars.....

Edited by elantra06

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Which is so incredibly wasteful and stupid. There needs to be more, sustained pressure for OPTO. 

 

 

Nope not really. It was done away on those lines due to passenger safety. Tell people stop sticking their hand and feet in closing doors and they won't have to be worried about being dragged to their death. A T/O can't monitor the doors while the train is leaving the station. I would say it isn't wasteful and stupid..... Try running 5 car lengths on those lines with the heavy ridership they have. why do you think the (7) has eleven cars.....

 

OPTO on NYCT would only be possible, if the cameras were attached to the exterior of the train (like the London Overground trains) and viewable on the TOD screen as the train pulled away...

 

Under any other circumstances, I would agree that it's impossible...

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One thing I noticed is that even I will argue against sensible changes if the changes take away job duties (and thus, job security) from me. And I’m normally very good at finding clever ways to create efficiency by eliminating more human-based tasks from work flows.

 

OPTO on NYCT would only be possible, if the cameras were attached to the exterior of the train (like the London Overground trains) and viewable on the TOD screen as the train pulled away...

 

Under any other circumstances, I would agree that it's impossible...

The unions are going to find some way to protest the cameras so that the barrier to OPTO is maintained.

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OPTO on NYCT would only be possible, if the cameras were attached to the exterior of the train (like the London Overground trains) and viewable on the TOD screen as the train pulled away...

 

Under any other circumstances, I would agree that it's impossible...

 

Philly addressed this on the MFL by putting cameras along the platform, and transmitting those feeds to an in-cab screen. It seems to work well. 

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then if they automate the 42nd street (S) would they need to sever the connections to the 7th ave line?

 

Why would that be necessary?

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Why would that be necessary?

No need.

Wasn't there a plan to rebuild the 42nd Street line and make the line with two tracks, as well as lose the 7th Av connection?

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Wasn't there a plan to rebuild the 42nd Street line and make the line with two tracks, as well as lose the 7th Av connection?

That is the current plan, but that is not needed for automation.

 

 This project will modify and extend the platform to comply with Americans with Disabilities Act

(ADA) requirements. The station will be reconfigured from three-track to two-track shuttle

operations for six-car trains and addition of second means of egress at east end of platform to

mitigate congestion and provide a connection to the 6th Avenue Line. Project also includes

modifications at Grand Central-42 St to accommodate the new shuttle operation. Additional station

reconfiguration options will be explored during design. To be coordinated with reconstruction project

at station.

The budget for this project is $235.41 million.

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/49474-42nd-street-shuttle-upgrades-part-of-the-financial-plan/

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Right there was a fire I believe.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

 

The automated shuttle worked just fine 50+ years ago, but yes, there was a fire - unrelated to the automation, as it happens. 

 

img_45970.jpg

 

Would you like to know more?  (link to nycsubway.org page detailing shuttle automation and fire)

 

It's also worth mentioning that even though the train was fully automatic, an operator rode the cab at all times in what is an alleged deference to the TWU. With the state of modern telemetry being what it is, I would not be surprised if a new, automated shuttle goes in, you may have a T/O in a fixed control room overseeing multiple automated trains. 

 

that's what i meant supposedly i heard that they were gonna sever the 7th ave connection

 

If all the tracks were accessible from lex this wouldn't surprise me. Remember, that "connection" already requires the closure of a station exit and removal of a pedestrian walkway to access. It's not exactly a straightforward connection. 

Edited by itmaybeokay

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