MTA Spells Out Service Cuts for Express Bus Service

[Via Garibaldi 8]

11 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

I can also see the QM5 "super express" trips being converted into QM1 super express Trips. The QM5 super express buses take longer than the regular QM5 due to them having to serve Fresh Meadows.

That won't change.  Rush hour service is what it is, though we do want some more Super Express trips from existing service on the QM2 and QM20.  Once we meet with DOT we'll discuss some ideas to get these buses moving. The Super Express trips are quite popular. One more comment regarding the QM4.... The big issue is the demographic change along the route. Weekdays it sees enough ridership, but on Saturdays, the area it passes through with the money is Jewish and they practice Shabbat Saturdays so they aren't using the QM4 like that. Some of them will use it on Sundays though.  Fresh Meadows is a large co-op development so it would be foolish to take away express bus service from them. That's precisely the reason that the QM5 runs over there.  

Co-ops and condos are always served by express buses because that's where the $$$ is.  You need luxury buildings, condos, co-ops... Areas that are dense enough where people will gravitate to the express bus. It's the same in every neighborhood. Shore Road has lots co-ops for the X27 and X37. My neighborhood sees the most usage down in Spuyten Duyvil and where I'm at in Central Riverdale. Lots of co-ops, condos and luxury buildings.  

These are the types of things that we talk about when we talk about demographics... 

[Lil 57]

11 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Co-ops and condos are always served by express buses because that's where the $$$ is.  You need luxury buildings, condos, co-ops... Areas that are dense enough where people will gravitate to the express bus. It's the same in every neighborhood. Shore Road has lots co-ops for the X27 and X37. My neighborhood sees the most usage down in Spuyten Duyvil and where I'm at in Central Riverdale. Lots of co-ops, condos and luxury buildings.  

I'm thinking, would the Williamsburg area benefit if there was an express service in that area due to the  train shutdown? That might bring the  some money?

Also does anyone know the date when these cuts would be implemented?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, Lil 57 said:

I'm thinking, would the Williamsburg area benefit if there was an express service in that area due to the  train shutdown? That might bring the  some money?

Also does anyone know the date when these cuts would be implemented?

No express buses for Williamsburg... They'll have SBS and other bus options. I saw the bus lanes being prepared on 14th street yesterday.  They'll also have more ferry service, and subway alternatives in addition to bike options, etc. 

The cuts won't be implemented until there is a hearing and then the  would have to put the proposed service cuts up for a vote, but not before they hold hearings for all of the lines up for cuts.  Nothing has been announced yet, but it would likely be sometime in 2019 - June or so.

[BrooklynBus]

I also like Moerdler. In the early 90s I had to attend all the Board meetings and Committee meetings. Same story. Only about three good Board Members. The others made dumb remarks and were useless. I thought one of the worst Board Members was Virgil Conway and they picked him for the next Chairman after Alan Kiepper.

Also sounds like Albany. When I was in college in 1970, I took a political internship course and spent one week in Albany. After pestering the Assemblyman I was interning for, he let me attend a Committee meeting. I believe it was the Health Committee. Every time a proposed bill came up for discussion everyone turned to one member to tell them what was in the bill. He was the only one who read all of them. He would explain the bill and everyone would ask him how they should vote and they all listened. All votes were unanimous. Very few even asked any questions about any of the bills. 

Apparently everyone else had been out partying the night before and couldn't be bothered to do their homework. One Assemblyman kept falling asleep on my left shoulder and I constantly had to nudge him awake. I thought I was in a subway. 

Looks like the MTA meetings are no different. I can only imagine what goes on during Congressional Committee hearings. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, BrooklynBus said:

I also like Moerdler. In the early 90s I had to attend all the Board meetings and Committee meetings. Same story. Only about three good Board Members. The others made dumb remarks and were useless. I thought one of the worst Board Members was Virgil Conway and they picked him for the next Chairman after Alan Kiepper.

Also sounds like Albany. When I was in college in 1970, I took a political internship course and spent one week in Albany. After pestering the Assemblyman I was interning for, he let me attend a Committee meeting. I believe it was the Health Committee. Every time a proposed bill came up for discussion everyone turned to one member to tell them what was in the bill. He was the only one who read all of them. He would explain the bill and everyone would ask him how they should vote and they all listened. All votes were unanimous. Very few even asked any questions about any of the bills. 

Apparently everyone else had been out partying the night before and couldn't be bothered to do their homework. One Assemblyman kept falling asleep on my left shoulder and I constantly had to nudge him awake. I thought I was in a subway. 

Looks like the MTA meetings are no different. I can only imagine what goes on during Congressional Committee hearings. 

Charles is great. He's a invaluable member of our Community Board here in Riverdale  (he lives in Riverdale, as does Fernando Ferrer) and he's been great on keeping a number of projects out of Riverdale from destroying the area.

[BrooklynBus]

21 hours ago, danielhg121 said:

Why does it seem like Charles Moerdler is the only one with a functioning brain on the MTA board? He seems to have some knowledge and history of MTA's operating budget. He can easily point out where the cost-cutting measures and I find myself agreeing with him on a lot of issues. He's really about to have a stroke (you can see veins poppin' out his head) if he has to listen to anymore crap the MTA is spewing out. Half the board members don't know what they're doing and just plain reciting facts. Another thing is he's caught up on everything, as a man who actually does his homework and research, he comes into these board meetings ready to counter half the points Byford spits out.

I also like Moerdler. In the early 90s I had to attend all the Board meetings and Committee meetings. Same story. Only about three good Board Members. The others made dumb remarks and were useless. I thought one of the worst Board Members was Virgil Conway and they picked him for the next Chairman after Alan Kiepper.

Also sounds like Albany. When I was in college in 1970, I took a political internship course and spent one week in Albany. After pestering the Assemblyman I was interning for, he let me attend a Committee meeting. I believe it was the Health Committee. Every time a proposed bill came up for discussion everyone turned to one member to tell them what was in the bill. He was the only one who read all of them. He would explain the bill and everyone would ask him how they should vote and they all listened. All votes were unanimous. Very few even asked any questions about any of the bills. 

Apparently everyone else had been out partying the night before and couldn't be bothered to do their homework. One Assemblyman kept falling asleep on my left shoulder and I constantly had to nudge him awake. I thought I was in a subway. 

Looks like the MTA meetings are no different. I can only imagine what goes on during Congressional Committee hearings. 

 

[B35 via Church]

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 4:37 PM, Lil 57 said:

I can also see the QM5 "super express" trips being converted into QM1 super express Trips. The QM5 super express buses take longer than the regular QM5 due to them having to serve Fresh Meadows.

You're not wrong about the QM5 Sx's taking longer (hell, others on here have pointed this out in the past), but I seriously believe the QM5 in its entirety will end up becoming one of these peak hour, peak direction only type of routes....

Whether they keep the Sx's or not remains to be seen.... From how Irick & company is sounding though, they're on a more macro scale than opting to, say, converting Sx QM5's to Sx Qm1's.... Another way of putting it is, they're not only looking to decrease coverage/trip, they're looking to kill entire trips.....

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 4:53 PM, Lil 57 said:

I'm thinking, would the Williamsburg area benefit if there was an express service in that area due to the  train shutdown? That might bring the  some money?

Lol...

Brooklyn CB6 (another part of Brooklyn that's just as proximate to Manhattan) have been clamoring for express bus service for decades.... If the MTA is looking to cut whatever number of current express bus service city-wide right now, there's not a spirit in the sky that'd have express buses injected into the network (and the budget) to begin serving Brooklyn CB6 or Brooklyn CB1....

[Lil 57]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

You're not wrong about the QM5 Sx's taking longer (hell, others on here have pointed this out in the past), but I seriously believe the QM5 in its entirety will end up becoming one of these peak hour, peak direction only type of routes....

The QM5 has the highest average weekend ridership for Queens express buses. If they cut the QM5 off-peak, they're definitely cutting the other Queens express buses off-peak, meaning that there would be NO express bus service in Queens off-peak.

[Q101viaSteinway]

If the QM5/6 corridor is not going to have any off peak service, then perhaps not even the biggest individual route of them all like BxM7 is safe. I just hope Irick doesn't tell Co Op City bus rider to wait for MNRR Penn Station Access for direct off peak service to Manhattan. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

32 minutes ago, Q101viaSteinway said:

If the QM5/6 corridor is not going to have any off peak service, then perhaps not even the biggest individual route of them all like BxM7 is safe. I just hope Irick doesn't tell Co Op City bus rider to wait for MNRR Penn Station Access for direct off peak service to Manhattan. 

We took a few BxM7 trips last weekend.  Ridership was decent both to and from Co-op City as those buses are used at all hours.  One of the reasons we're going to be closely watching this debacle is because the  seems to think that communities forgot the agreement made years ago, which was that places like Co-op City that were built without subways would have GOOD transportation, which includes express bus service. This is why Co-op City raises hell when the  proposes service cuts, because they know the deal.  Co-op City was PLANNED (as in it's a planned community), and that also included the transportation, and there are a number of places like this (LeFrak City, Parkchester, etc. all come to mind). They gave them express bus service because these are LARGE developments that are dense population wise that may or may not be near subways, so the deal was we'll provide express bus service to these areas to give them reasonable transportation options, otherwise who is going to want to move to these areas where you have limited or no subway access?? See my point??  There's also the issue of some areas not being ADA accessible, so you have THOUSANDS of people in these areas that are disabled and they don't have access to Manhattan or other work centers.  Without those express buses, you shut out thousands of people from having access to reasonable transportation if the closest subway is not ADA accessible.  Having a lawsuit for such a thing makes the  look as if they don't give a damn about those communities.  When they tried to get rid of the X27 on weekends, that was exactly what was argued... Which was subway stations in Bay Ridge were not ADA accessible, and Bay Ridge has a LARGE elderly population.  Without those express buses, those people were shut out of the system that needed to get to Manhattan. Believe me, we will be keeping this in mind should they try any BS.

When people ask why express bus service runs here and there, they don't know the history behind some of these routes. In lieu of building subways, the City provided express bus service, so this is what we have. It's WAYYY cheaper to run express bus service than it is to build subways.

[Lil 57]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

When people ask why express bus service runs here and there, they don't know the history behind some of these routes. In lieu of building subways, the City provided express bus service, so this is what we have. It's WAYYY cheaper to run express bus service than it is to build subways.

Earlier in this thread, someone stated that some LIRR trips carry very few passengers. So instead of cutting more express bus service, they should replace low ridership LIRR trips with buses since buses are cheaper to operate than trains.

[paulrivera]

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

We took a few BxM7 trips last weekend.  Ridership was decent both to and from Co-op City as those buses are used at all hours.  One of the reasons we're going to be closely watching this debacle is because the  seems to think that communities forgot the agreement made years ago, which was that places like Co-op City that were built without subways would have GOOD transportation, which includes express bus service. This is why Co-op City raises hell when the  proposes service cuts, because they know the deal.  Co-op City was PLANNED (as in it's a planned community), and that also included the transportation, and there are a number of places like this (LeFrak City, Parkchester, etc. all come to mind). They gave them express bus service because these are LARGE developments that are dense population wise that may or may not be near subways, so the deal was we'll provide express bus service to these areas to give them reasonable transportation options, otherwise who is going to want to move to these areas where you have limited or no subway access?? See my point??  There's also the issue of some areas not being ADA accessible, so you have THOUSANDS of people in these areas that are disabled and they don't have access to Manhattan or other work centers.  Without those express buses, you shut out thousands of people from having access to reasonable transportation if the closest subway is not ADA accessible.  Having a lawsuit for such a thing makes the  look as if they don't give a damn about those communities.  When they tried to get rid of the X27 on weekends, that was exactly what was argued... Which was subway stations in Bay Ridge were not ADA accessible, and Bay Ridge has a LARGE elderly population.  Without those express buses, those people were shut out of the system that needed to get to Manhattan. Believe me, we will be keeping this in mind should they try any BS.

When people ask why express bus service runs here and there, they don't know the history behind some of these routes. In lieu of building subways, the City provided express bus service, so this is what we have. It's WAYYY cheaper to run express bus service than it is to build subways.

And even if you did convince disabled/elderly people to use the subway, how the hell are they going to have a half-decent ride in a packed subway car with their 150% loading guideline BS. Hell, they're not even going to use the guidelines for the weekends, they'll likely hard-cap service to like 15tph on each trunk, which is what they've already done on Queens Blvd.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

27 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

And even if you did convince disabled/elderly people to use the subway, how the hell are they going to have a half-decent ride in a packed subway car with their 150% loading guideline BS. Hell, they're not even going to use the guidelines for the weekends, they'll likely hard-cap service to like 15tph on each trunk, which is what they've already done on Queens Blvd.

I often times have to let trains go by during rush hour because they are so packed now.

[NY1635]

5 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

Earlier in this thread, someone stated that some LIRR trips carry very few passengers. So instead of cutting more express bus service, they should replace low ridership LIRR trips with buses since buses are cheaper to operate than trains.

LIRR commuters would fight against any attempt to cut service on their trains, even if their branch carries air to Penn or Atlantic Terminal. The average LIRR commuter pay premium on parking and tickets to pretty much avoid having to rely on NICE for service in and out of the island. 

[Lil 57]

1 hour ago, NY1635 said:

LIRR commuters would fight against any attempt to cut service on their trains, even if their branch carries air to Penn or Atlantic Terminal. The average LIRR commuter pay premium on parking and tickets to pretty much avoid having to rely on NICE for service in and out of the island. 

The West Hempstead averages 17-19 passengers per train on weekends. It doesn't even go to Penn Station, you have to change at Jamaica. Having an Express bus service that serves those areas off-peak to Manhattan would cost saving and give people direct off-peak access to Manhattan. The Greenport Scoot would also be replaced with a bus service.

Trains are way more expensive to operate than buses. 

If having trains replaced with buses off-peak could save express bus service for other areas, I'll do it. 

[67thAve]

19 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

The West Hempstead averages 17-19 passengers per train on weekends. It doesn't even go to Penn Station, you have to change at Jamaica. Having an Express bus service that serves those areas off-peak to Manhattan would cost saving and give people direct off-peak access to Manhattan. The Greenport Scoot would also be replaced with a bus service.

Trains are way more expensive to operate than buses. 

If having trains replaced with buses off-peak could save express bus service for other areas, I'll do it. 

The MTA would never consider "bustituting" train services if they were on the chopping block because the bus operations of MTA are designed to facilitate travel within New York City, not from the suburbs.

On a different note, perchance this is a good time for NICE to get itself into providing express bus services that run along/near the Queens/Nassau boundary and go head-to-head with the MTA...

[Brillant93]

I think cutting back service on LIRR that is way too costly should help. Reason being is that they could use that for freight and have freight companies pay to up keep the rails and such. 

[checkmatechamp13]

 

1 hour ago, 67thAve said:

The MTA would never consider "bustituting" train services if they were on the chopping block because the bus operations of MTA are designed to facilitate travel within New York City, not from the suburbs.

On a different note, perchance this is a good time for NICE to get itself into providing express bus services that run along/near the Queens/Nassau boundary and go head-to-head with the MTA...

Better to bustitute it than to cut it completely, leaving people completely stranded. (Especially considering how early SCT shuts down)

[Lil 57]

4 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Better to bustitute it than to cut it completely, leaving people completely stranded. (Especially considering how early SCT shuts down)

1

This booklet explains ridership on LIRR routes: http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/docs/2017 LIRR Ridership Book.pdf

Says everything from Aunaial Ridership to Ridership on each train.

Here are some proposals (Trains would be replaced by express bus routes to the city/Jamaica Station. The Greenport Bus would run to Ronkomama Station):

- The West Hampstead branch would be bused off-peak.

- The Greenport Scoot would be bused all times.

- The Far Rockaway and Hempstead Branches would be bused overnights.

Trains during these hours have ridership less than the 57-passenger seats on an express bus meaning that all passengers could be seated on a bus.

This would save a good amount of money and will save some NYC express routes from getting cut off-peak, leaving residents in those areas with no adequate transportation options.

[QM1to6Ave]

It may not be so simple to substitute buses. Some of these trains may need to end up in a certain location before their next trip, and would need to be run anyway, so it actually saves a little money by having people riding it 

[NY1635]

54 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

This booklet explains ridership on LIRR routes: http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/docs/2017 LIRR Ridership Book.pdf

Says everything from Aunaial Ridership to Ridership on each train.

Here are some proposals (Trains would be replaced by express bus routes to the city/Jamaica Station. The Greenport Bus would run to Ronkomama Station):

- The West Hampstead branch would be bused off-peak.

- The Greenport Scoot would be bused all times.

- The Far Rockaway and Hempstead Branches would be bused overnights.

Trains during these hours have ridership less than the 57-passenger seats on an express bus meaning that all passengers could be seated on a bus.

This would save a good amount of money and will save some NYC express routes from getting cut off-peak, leaving residents in those areas with no adequate transportation options.

City residents would be livid about subsidizing express bus service and shuttles for the suburbs, especially when Long Island doesn't want to fund their own bus service. 

[checkmatechamp13]

21 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

City residents would be livid about subsidizing express bus service and shuttles for the suburbs, especially when Long Island doesn't want to fund their own bus service. 

The LIRR could reimburse NYCTA for the cost of running the shuttles.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Latest activities:  Contacting elected officials to arrange meetings for HOV lanes as well as potential service cuts to express bus service. We have also reviewed the latest material from the  which still omits any proposed service cuts. They are definitely keeping tight lipped about this.

[Future ENY OP]

19 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The LIRR could reimburse NYCTA for the cost of running the shuttles.

I would hold back with those words.. Remember what happen to  Long Island bus. Nassau got too cheap and they got the AX. (2011/2012)

I understand that   Long Island Railroad is a different beast.  However, LIRR is going to find a way to stiff arm NYCTA for reimbursement.