Brooklyn Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[BrooklynBus]

15 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

What are the 's ridership levels? Can existing service accommodate both current  ridership and current ridership? Or would they need to add at least a few trips at certain times of day?

According to some who attended the MTA’s virtual meetings and other comments, the B100 and B2 are already overcrowded during rush hours and both need additional service. 

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, Ex696 said:

It is, the problem is the 's frequency is not being increased despite being offered as an alternative.

This has long been the problem with the B100 since the takeover... I have to sympathize with the Mill Basin folks way back when, that claim that service was better under Command.... Not to say that Command offered a service bonanza per se, but I do have to admit service was generally more timelier....

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

What are the 's ridership levels? Can existing service accommodate both current  ridership and current ridership? Or would they need to add at least a few trips at certain times of day?

During the middays, yeah.... During the rush, absolutely not.

The solution would still screw folks getting to/from Kings Plaza during the middays though... Not getting much of anyone to want to walk from Fillmore, east of Utica (or from Av S/Flatbush, for the matter), ride over to Mill to backtrack on the B3 or the B47, or get off at Flatbush & xfer for the B9 or B41...

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

According to some who attended the MTA’s virtual meetings and other comments, the B100 and B2 are already overcrowded during rush hours and both need additional service. 

During the PM rush, it's not uncommon to see lines for each of the 2 routes of at least 30 ppl. deep over at Kings Hwy. subway - and you'll hardly catch anyone standing in one line scurrying to the line for the other route, if a bus from one route arrives before the other....

Edited August 27, 2023 by B35 via Church

[Ex696]

Is the reason the rush hour and off-peak ridership on both of those routes so disproportional because they primarily serve residential areas?

[Gotham Bus Co.]

4 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

According to some who attended the MTA’s virtual meetings and other comments, the B100 and B2 are already overcrowded during rush hours and both need additional service. 

 

Is that with all scheduled service covered? Or are there open runs on both routes?

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Ex696 said:

Is the reason the rush hour and off-peak ridership on both of those routes so disproportional because they primarily serve residential areas?

It’s because the routes are primarily subway feeders.

56 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Is that with all scheduled service covered? Or are there open runs on both routes?

I wouldn’t know.

[Bill from Maspeth]

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Is that with all scheduled service covered? Or are there open runs on both routes?

When I hear comments like this I ask, "Are they complaining that they have to let a bus pass by because they can't fit on it or are they complaining they have to stand".  Just like the subways, you are paying for a ride and not necessarily a seat!

Edited August 27, 2023 by Bill from Maspeth

[BrooklynBus]

12 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

When I hear comments like this I ask, "Are they complaining that they have to let a bus pass by because they can't fit on it or are they complaining they have to stand".  Just like the subways, you are paying for a ride and not necessarily a seat!

I don’t know why you say that. When I think of scheduled runs not covered, I think of waiting 40 minutes for a bus instead of the scheduled 20 minutes, as often happens with the B1. 

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

I don’t know why you say that. When I think of scheduled runs not covered, I think of waiting 40 minutes for a bus instead of the scheduled 20 minutes, as often happens with the B1. 

Exactly.... The notion of an uncovered trip has squat to do with whether a passenger has to sit or stand.

 

4 hours ago, Ex696 said:

Is the reason the rush hour and off-peak ridership on both of those routes so disproportional because they primarily serve residential areas?

2 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

It’s because the routes are primarily subway feeders.

Little from column A, Little from column B....

Edited August 27, 2023 by B35 via Church

[Trainmaster5]

3 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

When I hear comments like this I ask, "Are they complaining that they have to let a bus pass by because they can't fit on it or are they complaining they have to stand".  Just like the subways, you are paying for a ride and not necessarily a seat!

Thanks for your post. Many people are of the mistaken belief that paying a fare means that you are paying for a seat. Paying the fare means that you are entitled to a ride. That’s it. IIRC boarding a train from Penn Station to Trenton on Amtrak entitles you to a seat but if you ride NJT you are on your own. I believe that also applies to riding from New Haven to NYC. Amtrak =seat while MN doesn’t guarantee a seat. I think Poughkeepsie to NYC is also carrier dependent. If I’m wrong I hope someone would correct me. Carry on.

[Cait Sith]

9 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

What are the 's ridership levels? Can existing service accommodate both current  ridership and current ridership? Or would they need to add at least a few trips at certain times of day?

Current daily ridership for the B100 averages around 3,000-4,000 riders a day. The average for the month of July was at 27,000. August's numbers are still being counted, but it's currently at 50k. Current B2 ridership is currently about half(sometimes lower) of what the B100 gets daily.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Cait Sith

[B35 via Church]

8 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Current daily ridership on the B100 averages around 3,000-4000 riders a day.

Monthly ridership for July is at 27,000 riders, but August is still currently being counted with the ridership at 50k.

damn, that's almost double last month's ridership (and that's not a route that sees high amt's of farebeating either).... where all them riders coming from???!?

edit: alright, good, you deleted those extra posts... lol..

Edited August 27, 2023 by B35 via Church

[Cait Sith]

3 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

damn, that's almost double last month's ridership.... where all them riders coming from???!?

Actually, I take that back. I looked at the chart wrong.

B100 ridership for the month of July was around 76,000 riders.

The B2 averages half(sometimes less) of what the B100 gets daily. The B2 gets around 1,500 riders during the week, 600-700 on weekends.

[limitednyc]

17 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Actually, I take that back. I looked at the chart wrong.

B100 ridership for the month of July was around 76,000 riders.

The B2 averages half(sometimes less) of what the B100 gets daily. The B2 gets around 1,500 riders during the week, 600-700 on weekends.

and the b31?

[Ex696]

22 hours ago, limitednyc said:

and the b31?

I'd assume slightly more since it's not really paralleled by another route, unlike with the B2 and B100.

[Bill from Maspeth]

On 8/27/2023 at 1:58 PM, BrooklynBus said:

I don’t know why you say that. When I think of scheduled runs not covered, I think of waiting 40 minutes for a bus instead of the scheduled 20 minutes, as often happens with the B1. 

Naturally I was referring to scheduled service or breakdown.  Transit is still having trouble covering scheduled service, both on the bus and subway side for 2 reasons: they are not hiring people off the civil service list quick enough; and when the applicant finds out what the job entails, they make a hasty exit during training.  

Edited August 29, 2023 by Bill from Maspeth

[Bill from Maspeth]

On 8/27/2023 at 3:48 PM, B35 via Church said:

Exactly.... The notion of an uncovered trip has squat to do with whether a passenger has to sit or stand.

I was not refering to an uncovered trip

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 8/27/2023 at 3:48 PM, B35 via Church said:

The notion of an uncovered trip has squat to do with whether a passenger has to sit or stand.

 

It has everything to do with whether a passenger has to sit or stand, IF that passenger would have had a seat on the missing trip. If the schedule calls for six trips in a given hour and only four are covered, then lots of people who would have sat will now have to stand. That's basic logic.

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

It has everything to do with whether a passenger has to sit or stand, IF that passenger would have had a seat on the missing trip. If the schedule calls for six trips in a given hour and only four are covered, then lots of people who would have sat will now have to stand. That's basic logic.

But sitting or standing is less important than having to wait an extra 20 minutes for a bus. Sitting or standing depends on many factors, among them how frequent is the turnover. If it’s frequent, the amount if time you are standing is much less than if there is little turnover. 

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

It has everything to do with whether a passenger has to sit or stand, IF that passenger would have had a seat on the missing trip. If the schedule calls for six trips in a given hour and only four are covered, then lots of people who would have sat will now have to stand. That's basic logic.

A passenger can't sit or stand on a bus from a particular trip that never showed up... Speaking of "basic logic".

You're not refuting my sentiment by conveying what result would yield due to a prior uncovered trip on some subsequent trip... It tells me nothing about the uncovered trip itself.... Nothing.

Edited August 30, 2023 by B35 via Church

[Ex696]

Is the  realignment in East Flatbush good?

[Nova Fly Guy]

On 8/25/2023 at 9:53 AM, B35 via Church said:

Extending the B7 up to Ridgewood was always one of these age-old proposals around these NYC-based transit forums (not just this forum/site) that I never really understood from a demand perspective.... Also, as far as the logistics of the extension, consider the notion that the route's going to go from having one poor layover scenario (Bed-Stuy end of the current B7) to a worse layover scenario (inheriting the B20's layover scenario in Ridgewood)....

AFAIC, the B7 extension to Forest isn't much more than having it end proximate to the depot it operates out of; which is Fresh Pond.... It won't do much of anything for the residents that live along/around the B7 & I cannot fathom there's much of anything along/around the B7 that would attract a Ridgewood or Bushwick resident.... The folks that currently use B20's north of Broadway tend to use it within Ridgewood & Bushwick.... Of the ones that don't, they're more or less all off the bus at Broadway Junction.... With the proposed B66 (their proposed northern split of the current B60) running to Broadway Junction, you'd just have those Bushwick patrons gravitating towards the proposed B66....

I mean, there's obviously going to be a ridership increase, but substantial isn't an adjective that I'd use to describe the potential for it.

 

Guess I'll act as an intermediary here.

His response wasn't irrelevant..... It's pretty pertinent (and funny when I think about it).... All he's saying is that there isn't much of anything east of Ocean along the B7 that would spur ridership growth..... That's like 95% of the route

I second that it won’t really give a big boost in ridership for the B7 as nobody going South of Broadway. Sending it the down Wilson to help the B60 or ENY would have been better options.

[B61In2002]

8 hours ago, Ex696 said:

Is the  realignment in East Flatbush good?

it's as good as it can be tbh. I feel part of the problem is that Nostrand/Av D is a major transfer point to/from the  and , so trying to reroute it to any of the other east-west streets would be a no-brainer because of how far the entrances to Newkirk Av are from other streets. But the constant double parking in the area makes the area a choke point of sorts. 

For reference, the average rush hour trip along Av D can take upwards of a half hour to go from Av D/Utica to Foster/Flatbush, with a good chunk of that time being spent along Nostrand or Foster because of traffic (frequent stopping also doesn't help, but they're rectifying that at least). A full fledged busway in that area of Nostrand could do wonders for travel time. 

[B35 via Church]

On 8/30/2023 at 8:37 AM, Ex696 said:

Is the  realignment in East Flatbush good?

To sum up what I said in a relatively recent post about that alteration, it makes the route more useful to actual residents of Remsen Village (which hardly anyone makes a reference to these days anymore).... I always thought it was a waste of time to have the route due EB parallel parts of the B17, B35 & the B15 b/w [Remsen/Av. B] & [Hegeman/Rockaway av]..... The current WB route basically says f*** you to Remsen Village residents..... So yeah, I see the proposed B8 there as a positive.

[Q43LTD]

Didn't the B8 have a part time branch to the Brooklyn Terminal Market until 95? IIRC, the Brooklyn bus map labeled the area as East Flatbush. Remsen Village and Paerdegat Basin are subsections of Canarsie I suppose?

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Q43LTD said:

Didn't the B8 have a part time branch to the Brooklyn Terminal Market until 95? IIRC, the Brooklyn bus map labeled the area as East Flatbush. Remsen Village and Paerdegat Basin are subsections of Canarsie I suppose?

When it was extended to Brookdale (whenever that was) I believe service to E 83 Street was discontinued. I don’t remember any branch.